The next U.S. President

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Panda

I'm not disagreeing that if you only break up the set of potential gun owners into two groups - law abiding citizens and criminals. You can come to that conclusion.

I'd argue that you should break the law abiding citizens group into multiple sets - knowledgeable, competent, ignorant, incompetent. The goal of licensing would be to create more knowledgeable and competent gun owners and limit the amount of ignorant and incompetent gun owners.

This is more inline with my thinking.

[DEFY]

Originally Posted by Panda

I'm not disagreeing that if you only break up the set of potential gun owners into two groups - law abiding citizens and criminals. You can come to that conclusion.

I'd argue that you should break the law abiding citizens group into multiple sets - knowledgeable, competent, ignorant, incompetent. The goal of licensing would be to create more knowledgeable and competent gun owners and limit the amount of ignorant and incompetent gun owners.

So you would much rather have a DMV for guns. Guns already have serial numbers and come with the ability to register them with their perspective makers. Hunters already take hunter safety courses that are well open to the public, don't have to be a hunter to take it. Say the least, the knowledge and ability is already out there. Sure making it more aware would probably help, but laws don't need to govern that ability. Hell if you never shot a gun or have no knowledge regarding them just ask a co-worker that hunts. They love to help and show off their tools, we do it for fun in a safe environment.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Panda

I'd argue that you should break the law abiding citizens group into multiple sets - knowledgeable, competent, ignorant, incompetent. The goal of licensing would be to create more knowledgeable and competent gun owners and limit the amount of ignorant and incompetent gun owners.

Even this ole KY boy kinda agrees with that somewhat, but sadly doesn't address the problem on the table trying to get solved.

Perhaps the challenge is not guns at all, maybe they are a symptom of another problem that is not being addressed or even worse, recognized.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Just let me own a P90, thats all i want. CT's gun laws are similar to cali and its rediculous. Just because a gun is "scary" looking now i cant have it. I dont mind needing the licensing, or better background checks, but let me buy what i want. I dont need military weapons, but whats wrong with the civilian version of said weapon.

Yes most of my voting is based on 2A now....which is sad because i only own 2 guns.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by DEFY

So you would much rather have a DMV for guns. Guns already have serial numbers and come with the ability to register them with their perspective makers. Hunters already take hunter safety courses that are well open to the public, don't have to be a hunter to take it. Say the least, the knowledge and ability is already out there. Sure making it more aware would probably help, but laws don't need to govern that ability. Hell if you never shot a gun or have no knowledge regarding them just ask a co-worker that hunts. They love to help and show off their tools, we do it for fun in a safe environment.

Yes, I'd much rather have a DMV for guns. Hunter's have to take a safety course to get a hunting license. The last time I took the safety course it was more about the laws, don't shoot within x feet of a road, don't shoot over a road, don't hunt at night. It assumed I was competent and knowledgeable and knew how to operate and maintain my firearm safely.

Asking a friend or co-worker is nice but what if I don't have a friend or co-worker. What if my friends and co-workers also don't know anything about firearms?

Full disclosure I own multiple firearms - rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I've been hunting since I was in elementary school.

[DEFY]

Originally Posted by Panda

Yes, I'd much rather have a DMV for guns. Hunter's have to take a safety course to get a hunting license. The last time I took the safety course it was more about the laws, don't shoot within x feet of a road, don't shoot over a road, don't hunt at night. It assumed I was competent and knowledgeable and knew how to operate and maintain my firearm safely.

Asking a friend or co-worker is nice but what if I don't have a friend or co-worker. What if my friends and co-workers also don't know anything about firearms?

Full disclosure I own multiple firearms - rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I've been hunting since I was in elementary school.

Police Departments would also be available. Heck I even remember stuff from intermediate school about courses available. Just going to a legit gun shop the people will show you the ropes and there are plenty of gun ranges that would allow you to start small and gain the knowledge. Responsibility is on you afterwards, and that's what really needs to be addressed.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by DEFY

Police Departments would also be available. Heck I even remember stuff from intermediate school about courses available. Just going to a legit gun shop the people will show you the ropes and there are plenty of gun ranges that would allow you to start small and gain the knowledge. Responsibility is on you afterwards, and that's what really needs to be addressed.

That's not a solution because it assumes that 1. People realize they need to learn more about firearms and 2. People are responsible enough to seek out the proper training.

It also doesn't address the fact that even if people did realize they needed training and were responsible enough to seek it out that they'd receive the same level of competent instruction from a knowledgeable individual.

I'm not concerned about the percentage of firearm owners who realize they need training and are responsible enough to seek it. I'm concerned about the ones that need training and don't know it or are too lazy to get it.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Panda

I'm not concerned about the percentage of firearm owners who realize they need training and are responsible enough to seek it. I'm concerned about the ones that need training and don't know it or are too lazy to get it.

Same can be said for cars, bikes, heavy equipment, parenting .

Still doesn't address the problem, criminals will NOT seek training to commit crimes. Until the focus is put on the "criminal" instead of the gun (or any other tool used as a weapon), this problem will ALWAYS exist. Game, set and match.

[SLOWn60]

Well; at least it's only one thread on guns, politics and religion!

One of the truly attractive aspects I've admired over the year or so has been the absence of the big three from the friendliest forum on the Internet! I often wondered if Alex was quietly deleting controversial threads!
What it does prove is though we all have our opinions and some of those opinions may be firmly held; the membership of this forum are truly exceptional and of fine character. Carry on good people!

[csmith12]

So.... to shift the current chatter to another subject. How does everyone sort out fact from fiction?

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by csmith12

So.... to shift the current chatter to another subject. How does everyone sort out fact from fiction?

I seek the advice of csmith12 of course!

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Who would you rather leave alone in a room with your sister or daughter or mother?

Not anybody that would bring bill around

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Not anybody that would bring bill around

Bill is not running.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Bill is not running.

So he is not gonna be molesting an raping folks in the White House again while his wife is in office? If we can write in here I'm voting Bernie

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Bill is not running.

Common sense: Fair game is fair game, if one side brings in the spouse of the other into the equation, then it's applicable on BOTH sides. Running or not, history has proven that the spouse of the elected president has a major influence on policy.

Like it or not, that is the way it is.

EDIT: imho, a non elected official should be barred from influencing policy and be solely limited to "charity" work.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

4 women now say it was not just locker room talk.
and counting
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...xual-touching/


I know this will come as a shock to many of you but I took that quiz thingy and it said I was 96% with the green candidate but 100% with Hilery.


I would have liked if Berny could have been president and at the time of the primary, all the polls showed Burnie beating all the Republicans by more than Hillary would, I think she will be better at actually governing.

Does she lie? They all do. I like her.

She is a horrible public speaker.

In NC we don't allow females in male locker rooms even if they identify as males an / or had a sex change... What them females been doing in the men's locker rooms ???

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

So he is not gonna be molesting an raping folks in the White House again while his wife is in office? If we can write in here I'm voting Bernie

100% will not

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Common sense: Fair game is fair game, if one side brings in the spouse of the other into the equation, then it's applicable on BOTH sides. Running or not, history has proven that the spouse of the elected president has a major influence on policy.

Like it or not, that is the way it is.

EDIT: imho, a non elected official should be barred from influencing policy and be solely limited to "charity" work.

You seen all the crooked stuff their charity seems up too 😂😂😂

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

100% will not

100% bullshit, an utter nonsense

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

100% bullshit, an utter nonsense

oh yea

[JohnnyBravo]

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

You seen all the crooked stuff their charity seems up too ������

I have seen/read what is reported. I also know there is always more than what meets the eye. Sorry, when I said charity, I meant an existing, vetted charity. For example; the red cross, humane society, perhaps the habitat for humanity.

More common sense: Self run charities are normally not as charitable as what is on the surface. "Rare is the true giving heart to where a loss is taken on the behalf of another." - csmith

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by allanoue

I'd hate to see either of these turds in office... I won't vote for Hillary; she is even worser than drumpf

[alex.s]

my opinion is this...

libertarians- sure, your policy makes sense to you, living in the middle of nowhere, you dont see or aparently need much government, and you dont want to pay taxes because of it. cool. vote libertarian. all 12 of you.

republicans- i get it. you dont like people who you believe are immoral. and you want to stop them from being immoral bastards. maybe you even believe they should be more christian. maybe you very strong ideas about what america is, and you hate that other people are tarnishing that image with things like cultural immigration, strong religious people (who arent your religion) coming in trying to have things their way. i get it. you dont like people who dont agree with you. maybe you think obama's trying to take our guns. vote for whoever the hell you want. that's your right.

democrats- i know i know. the entire government is full of ****. but you want someone who at least tries to pretend to represent you. you want someone who at least will put a liberal justice in the SCOTUS. vote hillary. or whoever the **** you want.


my point is- democracy works when you vote for the people who represent you. when you are the minority, guess what- you get less votes. the people who are represented more get more votes. this is called fairness. don't go and tell other people their views are wrong. libertarian views may make zero ****ing sense in a populous area, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense in the middle of nowhere. republican views make zero sense outside of the south or rich white areas. that doesn't mean you get to tell them their views are wrong.

have your view. explain your view. vote by your view. everyone else can do the same. there's zero point telling people their view is wrong. if they want to vote for a racist biggot, that is their decision. that is who they want to be represented by.

me? i'll write in sanders. am i a tiny minority? yes. am i going to tell you your views are wrong? probably, but i shouldn't. because everyone is entitled to their own ****ed up retarded opinion.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by DEFY

So you would much rather have a DMV for guns. Guns already have serial numbers and come with the ability to register them with their perspective makers. Hunters already take hunter safety courses that are well open to the public, don't have to be a hunter to take it. Say the least, the knowledge and ability is already out there. Sure making it more aware would probably help, but laws don't need to govern that ability. Hell if you never shot a gun or have no knowledge regarding them just ask a co-worker that hunts. They love to help and show off their tools, we do it for fun in a safe environment.

I think the fundamental issue here is that some gun owners fear that if there's a government record of that ownership then the government is more likely to someday come and take their gun from them, perhaps as a part of the implementation of marshal law during a national or global social and economic collapse.

I think the fear is real, it's not imaginary, but I also think the fear is not legitimate. If in deed there was a catastrophe of that nature then the pea shooters that most gun owners have won't make a hill of beans difference against the weapons the government already has.

The fact of the matter is that if there is a collapse of that nature then 95% of the people reading this will be dead inside a year, probably much sooner than that, and that includes a lot of the so-called preppers. No amount of personally owned small arms will make a difference in that scenario, other than perhaps to hasten the final result as people who thought they were honorable, decent people decide to use their guns to take food from others in order to feed their own starving children.

Would you be willing to watch your child starve to death?

No.

The real task is to prevent that from happening, and one obstacle to that is the false sense of security that comes with owning guns.

BTW, I'm a gun-owner, have been all of my life. I've sent thousands of rounds down-range over the decades. I don't hunt for philosophical reasons, and I've never had to point a weapon at anyone. I don't have a CCW, and probably won't get one. I like guns because they're fun to shoot, and I like the concentration and mental focus demanded by long-distance target shooting.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

Well; at least it's only one thread on guns, politics and religion!

One of the truly attractive aspects I've admired over the year or so has been the absence of the big three from the friendliest forum on the Internet! I often wondered if Alex was quietly deleting controversial threads!
What it does prove is though we all have our opinions and some of those opinions may be firmly held; the membership of this forum are truly exceptional and of fine character. Carry on good people!

We are demonstrating here what it's like to have civil conversation without name-calling (much), ennuendos, and all the nasty rhetorical tactics that usually turn such threads into the verbal equivalent of throwing rocks and sticks at each other. Alex would probably lock or delete threads that get ugly, and I like that. I've seen forums that have been overrun with extremists and their nastiness.

[csmith12]

^^^ if only the rest of us could be so level.

imho, it's part of the core issues with today's affairs.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by csmith12

^^^ if only the rest of us could be so level.

imho, it's part of the core issues with today's affairs.

Do you believe Trump has not incited violence at his rallies?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Do you believe Trump has not incited violence at his rallies?

If you mean "trigger" or "release" what was already there, then yes. If you mean create something out of nothing, then no.

It's quite obvious, he is tapping the well of anger. If you deny it, I feel you are blind to a large part of the frustration people have.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Same can be said for cars, bikes, heavy equipment, parenting .

Still doesn't address the problem, criminals will NOT seek training to commit crimes. Until the focus is put on the "criminal" instead of the gun (or any other tool used as a weapon), this problem will ALWAYS exist. Game, set and match.

For me the problem is that too many people die and are injured by guns in America.

[csmith12]

Food for thought...

Here is what I am facing;

1. 60% gross income taxation - full transparency... I am currently at 48% as a self employed person, making 6 figures for 2015. Between fed, state, local, sales, property and other small taxes... blah, I would like to keep more of the $$$ I work 80+ hrs a week for. Thanks.
2. Health care - My wife has had to change docs twice because of insurance carrier changes and my family primary caregiver has opted out of the network we participate in. My plan deductible has risen from $1500 to over $7k and all I got from it was a dental check up for free for Jade. All the other kids are too old to qualify. My 2nd oldest daughter no longer qualifies because she didn't qualify for student assistance in college. Point is.... read the fine print. It sounds great as a tag line, the devil is in the details.
3. Firearms - one day.... I will wake up and be against the law for what I currently own. Perhaps this will never happen, but I dunno but don't really matter. Don't make a criminal where there was none before. Otherwise it is seen as a revenue stream.
4. Kids - Helping my kids do homework is an exercise in frustration for me and them! Here is the kicker though. As a person with an above average IQ, I support the core idea behind common core (to teach people to think outside the box). The implementation leaves something to be desired at best.
5. Double dipping - Stop taxing my tax returns. If I overpaid in taxes, then the rest is mine. To have to claim it again is aggravating to say the least. This is just one example of double dipping.
6. Homes - If I want to build a fence, I don't need to pay $65 to the county/state for permission to do something on land "I" own. I moved sooooooo far away from people to have this freedom. I don't need it imposed on me to protect squirrels. My closest neighbor is 300ft away, divided by 20+ acres of heavy forest. That is enough imho.
7. Kids cont... - It does NOT take a village. I am perfectly fine between me and my wife raising my own kids without the help of the government. In fact, they are causing me problems when it comes to which bathroom to use and such. imho... it's not hard. Male = men's restroom, Female = women's restroom. If you are in between, it hasn't been a real problem, don't make it one now. Trump's remarks toward women.... imho... really? are you even alive or just sheltered. Sure, you may not hear those remarks in a NFL locker room. Good! They make 10mil+, they should not, but for us mortals that have to deal with everyday life, then YES... you do hear stuff like that. If you think not, your kidding yourself. Put a mic on a school bus if you don't believe me. Treatment of women (and others) was long a problem before this election or you can claim it now, don't really care either way.
8. Jobs - As a tech person, I have been fired, just to have my job outsourced to India or other cheap labor. Not that it is a bad thing totally, but does play a role in my planning for the future. Free college is awesome but earn it by working in your field of college study for the first 5 or so years. So you can establish yourself in that field. To get a free art degree and end up as a sales manager doesn't really help things overall.
9. World relations - Play stupid games, win stupid prices. Really.... ask yourself honestly, at what point do you call the ball and say, "we must be able to help ourselves before we can help others." And TRUST, I help people waaaaaaayyyyyyy more than I should. I don't just say that without thought. While I believe we should extend a helping hand when it makes sense, we cannot be the saviour of the world.

Generosity to fault creates 2 problems instead of solving one. - csmith

Does that help @SLOWn60?

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Panda

For me the problem is that too many people die and are injured by guns in America.

Fair enough, still doesn't address problem at hand. "Feelings" never solved any problems, only actions. Ya see, I am one of those hard arses... give me some evidence that is kinda tangible that the change will make a real difference. Otherwise.... wtf ever. And yes, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all.

[Koala]

just popping in to say this... @csmith12, I'm throwing you a million imaginary upvotes for your last two posts since I can't give you real ones

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Good solution. Just give up and let the gun proliferation continue out of control.

:-|

Yes, but somewhat not really. The thing is, you don't "experiment" with the rights of 319 million people. It's the 2nd amendment, it is not to be treated lightly or spoken about changing on a whim. Right, wrong, indifferent, you're going to piss someone off... no getting around it, just accept it.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Food for thought...

Here is what I am facing;

1. 60% gross income taxation - full transparency... I am currently at 48% as a self employed person for 2015. Between fed, state, local, sales, property and other small taxes... blah, I would like to keep more of the $$$ I work 80+ hrs a week for. Thanks.

You need another accountant. And, you should have an accountant if your income is so high that you're in the higher tax brackets. As a self-employed person you're paying the matching SS taxes, of course, but outside of that you can pretty much deduct all of your expenses including all work-related travel (mileage on your vehicle), home office costs including mortgage portion, etc. You can also do capital depreciation on most assets related to your work. Again, if you're paying 60%, actually paying that, then you really, really, really need to fire your accountant. To be anywhere close to those kind of effective tax rates you have to be making many, many hundreds of thousands a year, maybe even millions a year.

Originally Posted by csmith12

2. Health care - My wife has had to change docs twice because of insurance carrier changes and my family primary caregiver has opted out of the network we participate in. My plan deductible has risen from $1500 to over $7k and all I got from it was a dental check up for free for Jade. All the other kids are too old to qualify. My 2nd oldest daughter no longer qualifies because she didn't qualify for student assistance in college. Point is.... read the fine print. It sounds great as a tag line, the devil is in the details.

Our health care system is a total clusterf**k, and it was decades before RomneyCare (later ObamaCare) ever existed. Compared to every single advanced (or civilized) nation on earth ours is by far the most expensive by any measure, and delivers the lowest average quality (some people get outstanding care, millions don't get jack s**t, average is the only meaningful number) to its citizens. Nobody does it as badly as we do, nobody. The ACA is a weak first step toward improvement, and hobbled as it is by politics it has done something good. It is, however, just a first step, there's a long way to go, and throwing millions of people to the wolves isn't the way to do it.

Originally Posted by csmith12

3. Firearms - one day.... I will wake up and be against the law for what I currently own. Perhaps this will never happen, but I dunno but don't really matter. Don't make a criminal where there was none before. Otherwise it is seen as a revenue stream.

Luckily there's a Constitutional Article for that! And no, it's not the Second Amendment (which all by itself will prevent this scenario from happening). It's Article 1, Section 9, of the US Constitution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articl...ts_on_Congress

It specifically prohibits Bills of Attainder, which in one form are retroactive laws such as you describe above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder This section of the Constitution is the basis for all the Grandfather clauses out there. For instance when cars were required to be more energy efficient in 1981, the law exempted older cars from having to be brought up to modern standards. That's why 1950s cars still don't have to have seatbelts even though new laws in 1974 made them mandatory.

Nobody's going to be making your guns illegal then coming to get them. They may require to you to register them, just like you do your cars and motorcycles, and they may pass laws requiring that you be more responsible with them by keeping them locked away when you have kids in your house, but they're never going to make them illegal. Spend tonight not worrying about that.

Originally Posted by csmith12

4. Kids - Helping my kids do homework is an exercise in frustration for me and them! Here is the kicker though. As a person with an above average IQ, I support the core idea behind common core (to teach people to think outside the box). The implementation leaves something to be desired at best.

Yeah, Common Core seems to rub some people the wrong way. I'd need to look at real science and statistics on its effects before forming an opinion on it.

Originally Posted by csmith12

5. Double dipping - Stop taxing my tax returns. If I overpaid in taxes, then the rest is mine. To have to claim it again is aggravating to say the least. This is just one example of double dipping.

See my comment about getting a better accountant above. I had an accountant when I had my automotive shop, and even though I was just a Sole Proprietership with two bays in a rental property that guy was still worth every dollar I paid him.

Originally Posted by csmith12

6. Homes - If I want to build a fence, I don't need to pay $65 to the county/state for permission to do something on land "I" own. I moved sooooooo far away from people to have this freedom. I don't need it imposed on me to protect squirrels. My closest neighbor is 300ft away, divided by 20+ acres of heavy forest. That is enough imho.

My city finally started permitting and regulating fences a couple of decades ago. It was because people used the cheapest materials and construction and after a few years they all looked like ass, with panels falling off/rotting, posts breaking in the slightest wind, etc. Rather than letting things stay the same and issuing tens of thousands of citations for decrepit and hazardous fences they passed ordinances to make them better. Now they need galvanized posts set in concrete deep enough to matter, galvanized hardware, full thickness boards and structure, etc. And yes, now a permit is required, that permit basically pays for the inspector's time to verify you're building a good quality fence, and it's worth every dollar. The permitting process covers a lot of things and the results are much better than what I've seen out in the county. I wish there'd been permitting when my house was built over 60 years ago, I'd have spent a lot less money fixing things and undoing crap work from back then.

Originally Posted by csmith12

7. ...Trump's remarks toward women.... imho... really? are you even alive or just sheltered.

By his remarks and all the reports surfacing, Trump is exceptional in his misogyny. There's not much more to say about his behavior, except to say it's beyond contempt and well into the territory of sex crime.

Originally Posted by csmith12

8. Jobs - As a tech person, I have been fired, just to have my job outsourced to India or other cheap labor. Not that it is a bad thing totally, but does play a role in my planning for the future. Free college is awesome but earn it by working in your field of college study for the first 5 or so years. So you can establish yourself in that field. To get a free art degree and end up as a sales manager doesn't really help things overall.

I lay the blame for outsourcing, and the even worse problem of H1-B visa abuse, squarely at the feet of the CEOs and managers that decided to do those things. Those people benefit the most from our nation's military (by far the most expensive in the world) and economy, and take the most from us by outsourcing and importing counterfeit workers. As to the worth of knowledge as embodied by degrees, I'm glad that our nation isn't so impoverished and destitute that STEM degrees are the only ones of worth in it. Great nations have art and culture, without that a nation is just struggling to survive, no more.

Originally Posted by csmith12

9. World relations - Play stupid games, win stupid prices. Really.... ask yourself honestly, at what point do you call the ball and say, "we must be able to help ourselves before we can help others." And TRUST, I help people waaaaaaayyyyyyy more than I should. I don't just say that without thought. While I believe we should extend a helping hand when it makes sense, we cannot be the saviour of the world.

To some extent I agree, but I also realize that earning (not buying) friends in this world, earning the respect of being a leader vs the respect of fear of our military, will help bring us all up to a better place. We aren't just a bunch of disparate nations anymore, we are the human race on one ball of rock floating in the vast emptiness of space. Not a particularly big ball of rock, either, more of a little speck, a speck that is of no consequence in the great scheme of things.

[csmith12]

Frugal, maybe you're right and I need a better accountant, but I truly believe you highly underestimate the level of ethics I have. I fired my last accountant that "saved" me $$$ by questionably filling out the tax forms. I have no issue paying my part and fair share, however... I highly dislike being taken advantage of. Here is a peek of what is going on with YOUR $$$ as well as everyone else's that posts here.

You get taxed on your gross income at the fed level - deductions (15%-22%)
You get taxed on your gross income at the state level - deductions (around 7%)
You pay taxes on nearly every dollar you spend - sales tax (6%+, 33%+/- on gas and other taxes on top of that for other goods they specifically tax outside of the norm)
You pay school tax on your utilities .3% (around $12 a month)
You might pay city our county taxes depending on where you live (1-2% around $200-$300 bucks)
You pay tax year after year, after year on your car, house and other properties just because you own them.
Local levee's for XYZ schools, parks, museums, ect... ect...
bla bla bla bla bla bla

Trust me, you are in the same boat as me, you only get about 50ish% of you're income, the rest goes to someone else.

So say you get $1000
-18% = $820 (add another 15% for me because I am self employed, yes I know a good chunk of that is SSI, but that don't help my monthly budget none and may be taxable later anyway... :\)
-7% = $750 (that is 7% of $1k not $820)
School tax - $12 = $738
City tax @ 1.5% = $15 - $738 = $723
Property taxes @ $1500 a year for home/auto = $125... $598 left
Levee's $8 = $590
If you spend $590 on goods that are subject to sales tax then - 6% of that too. = $554

Hey, not bad for making $1k right?

Other comments
I fully understand that HOA's and city ordinances keep property values and safety up but it is far to often taken too far. For example, my friend lives within city limits. If he doesn't mow his yard according to the schedule of the city, they will come mow it for him and charge him $75 that he must pay or he will have to go to court. That is plain wrong!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Trumps comments and actions toward women are equal to a jar of farts, but I 1000% assure you, worse things are happening on a school bus every day and nobody bats an eye. Seems the priorities are out of whack a bit according to down home country folks.

And as far as your grandfather clause. That went out the window with certain bans and city ordinances at the local level. For example; pit bulls are legal to own, but many cities now ban them. Get them out, surrender them or pay the fines, the choice is yours. They will do the same with guns if given the chance, just a matter of time.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Fair enough, still doesn't address problem at hand. "Feelings" never solved any problems, only actions. Ya see, I am one of those hard arses... give me some evidence that is kinda tangible that the change will make a real difference. Otherwise.... wtf ever. And yes, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all.

So what do you think the problem at hand is? What's your solution to the problem as you see it?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Frugal, maybe you're right and I need a better accountant, but I truly believe you highly underestimate the level of ethics I have. I fired my last accountant that "saved" me $$$ by questionably filling out the tax forms. I have no issue paying my part and fair share, however... I highly dislike being taken advantage of. Here is a peek of what is going on with YOUR $$$ as well as everyone else's that posts here.

You get taxed on your gross income at the fed level - deductions (15%-22%)
You get taxed on your gross income at the state level - deductions (around 7%)
You pay taxes on nearly every dollar you spend - sales tax (6%+, 33%+/- on gas and other taxes on top of that for other goods they specifically tax outside of the norm)
You pay school tax on your utilities .3% (around $12 a month)
You might pay city our county taxes depending on where you live (1-2% around $200-$300 bucks)
You pay tax year after year, after year on your car, house and other properties just because you own them.
Local levee's for XYZ schools, parks, museums, ect... ect...
bla bla bla bla bla bla

Trust me, you are in the same boat as me, you only get about 50ish% of you're income, the rest goes to someone else.

So say you get $1000
-18% = $820 (add another 15% for me because I am self employed, yes I know a good chunk of that is SSI, but that don't help my monthly budget none and may be taxable later anyway... :\)
-7% = $750 (that is 7% of $1k not $820)
School tax - $12 = $738
City tax @ 1.5% = $15 - $738 = $723
Property taxes @ $1500 a year for home/auto = $125... $598 left
Levee's $8 = $590
If you spend $590 on goods that are subject to sales tax then - 6% of that too. = $554

Hey, not bad for making $1k right?

Other comments
I fully understand that HOA's and city ordinances keep property values and safety up but it is far to often taken too far. For example, my friend lives within city limits. If he doesn't mow his yard according to the schedule of the city, they will come mow it for him and charge him $75 that he must pay or he will have to go to court. That is plain wrong!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Trumps comments and actions toward women are equal to a jar of farts, but I 1000% assure you, worse things are happening on a school bus every day and nobody bats an eye. Seems the priorities are out of whack a bit according to down home country folks.

It should not be tolerated most especially from the leader of our country, because where there's smoke there's fire. It is not just talk. It is just like his rallies when he says I would like to punch that guy in the face, then what happens, some bozo thinks now he has licence to do it.

Originally Posted by csmith12

And as far as your grandfather clause. That went out the window with certain bans and city ordinances at the local level. For example; pit bulls are legal to own, but many cities now ban them. Get them out, surrender them or pay the fines, the choice is yours. They will do the same with guns if given the chance, just a matter of time.

Slippery slope arguments are crap arguments.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by allanoue

It should not be tolerated most especially from the leader of our country, because where there's smoke there's fire. It is not just talk. It is just like his rallies when he says I would like to punch that guy in the face, then what happens, some bozo thinks now he has licence to do it.


Slippery slope arguments are crap arguments.

I feel ya, I just call em as I see em. I don't make the rules, but I have to play by them. If you're gunna call one out... then call em all out, not just the one that makes good for the purpose of benefit. Ya see, I aint pointing to a single man, I am pointing to an issue with ALL of us.