How to deal with a road surface that's unleveled?

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

I would like some explaining

Frankly, loud bikes are obnoxious.

Think about it this way, the majority of the sound coming out of your exhaust pipe goes backwards. If the majority of your sound is being directed backwards, when will cagers hear you at your most attention grabbing levels? When they're directly behind you or when you're even with their front wheel and you're blatting unnecessarily in their direction. To add to that, take a ride in your car for me. Turn the radio to a comfortable (not excessively loud) volume. Now carry a conversation with the person riding shotgun. How is this possible with a 65+ mph wind roaring past the outside of the car? Maybe it's all that sound deadening material that automakers pack into the bodywork of all modern cars.

From the motorcycle rider's perspective, a non-stock exhaust is damn loud and you'd have to be deaf not to hear it, no matter the situation. However, from the cager's perspective, radio + passenger + sound deadening material + wind noise + engine noise + other traffic that's orders of magnitude louder (like Semi's and old dump trucks) = your supposedly attention grabbing, 'life saving' motorcycle exhaust won't be heard until it's no longer useful for 'safety' purposes. At that point, it's nothing more than an annoyance associated with 'them danged noisy crotch rockets' and is just another reason for the general public not to like us.

To further my point, our bikes aren't nearly as loud as most large cruisers or larger sport bikes when we have an exhaust from a major manufacturer, so we're really not even that loud to begin with and REALLY won't get noticed from a blind spot.

Please, get an exhaust because you want one. I get it, they make you get a boner for your bike; they look awesome, they sound awesome, they make you feel like racerboy when your bike screams on the throttle, and in some cases the can even save some weight and make some power. I'd be a huge hypocrite if I said that I didn't love my full exhaust system for every burble and howl and rumble it makes. But PLEASE stop with this 'life saving noise' garbage. It just enforces a stereotype that I'd rather not be associated with when I ride my green lady.

PS: if you're relying on your exhaust to make you noticed in your current lane/traffic position, re-evaluate your riding habits. You should ALWAYS keep yourself in a place that will be visible for the traffic situation and will allow you plenty of time and space to react if needed. Hoping that you're heard and noticed is not the solution.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Brian

Did you read my reasoning behind it though? What good would it be for ambulances or police vehicles to be equipped with sirens?

You're not a unique snowflake. It's the same exact reasoning that every other newbie gives. It's equally wrong here.

Sirens are both significantly louder and aimed in the right direction. And are used in conjunction with incredibly bright lights. A motorcycle exhaust isn't in the same class unless it so obnoxiously loud to be almost unrideable. The other problem is that even if it were able to be heard with enough time for a car to do something about it, enough drivers get startled to make them just as likely to move towards your bike instead of away from it.

Ultimately, the safety gained is so minimal that it's pointless to rationally discuss. On the other hand, the accompanying problem of annoying your neighbors and other motorists clearly causes much more harm than good in the medium to long-term. It directly leads to motorcycle-free gated communities, and motorcycle free parking areas. Of course that might keep people from crashing on particularly slippery garage floors, but it's probably not a great growth strategy for motorcyclists or fans of the hobby.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Frankly, loud bikes are obnoxious.

Think about it this way, the majority of the sound coming out of your exhaust pipe goes backwards. If the majority of your sound is being directed backwards, when will cagers hear you at your most attention grabbing levels? When they're directly behind you or when you're even with their front wheel and you're blatting unnecessarily in their direction. To add to that, take a ride in your car for me. Turn the radio to a comfortable (not excessively loud) volume. Now carry a conversation with the person riding shotgun. How is this possible with a 65+ mph wind roaring past the outside of the car? Maybe it's all that sound deadening material that automakers pack into the bodywork of all modern cars.

From the motorcycle rider's perspective, a non-stock exhaust is damn loud and you'd have to be deaf not to hear it, no matter the situation. However, from the cager's perspective, radio + passenger + sound deadening material + wind noise + engine noise + other traffic that's orders of magnitude louder (like Semi's and old dump trucks) = your supposedly attention grabbing, 'life saving' motorcycle exhaust won't be heard until it's no longer useful for 'safety' purposes. At that point, it's nothing more than an annoyance associated with 'them danged noisy crotch rockets' and is just another reason for the general public not to like us.

To further my point, our bikes aren't nearly as loud as most large cruisers or larger sport bikes when we have an exhaust from a major manufacturer, so we're really not even that loud to begin with and REALLY won't get noticed from a blind spot.

Please, get an exhaust because you want one. I get it, they make you get a boner for your bike; they look awesome, they sound awesome, they make you feel like racerboy when your bike screams on the throttle, and in some cases the can even save some weight and make some power. I'd be a huge hypocrite if I said that I didn't love my full exhaust system for every burble and howl and rumble it makes. But PLEASE stop with this 'life saving noise' garbage. It just enforces a stereotype that I'd rather not be associated with when I ride my green lady.

PS: if you're relying on your exhaust to make you noticed in your current lane/traffic position, re-evaluate your riding habits. You should ALWAYS keep yourself in a place that will be visible for the traffic situation and will allow you plenty of time and space to react if needed. Hoping that you're heard and noticed is not the solution.

I never claimed for them to be magical but all the situations I would be in, changing lanes, speeding up and not hearing some small 2 wheeled vehicle really puts into consideration how much I may be thanking it in the future. I see no bad for it. I live in the city, neighbors are woken up already from everything else going on and every other car /bike that drives by with a loud exhaust.

I really don't see why there is so much hate generated towards the idea that it could save my life, there are SO many situations I can think of where it could, and if you guys are against that I don't know what I'm expressing my opinion for.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're not a unique snowflake. It's the same exact reasoning that every other newbie gives. It's equally wrong here.

Sirens are both significantly louder and aimed in the right direction. And are used in conjunction with incredibly bright lights. A motorcycle exhaust isn't in the same class unless it so obnoxiously loud to be almost unrideable. The other problem is that even if it were able to be heard with enough time for a car to do something about it, enough drivers get startled to make them just as likely to move towards your bike instead of away from it.

Ultimately, the safety gained is so minimal that it's pointless to rationally discuss. On the other hand, the accompanying problem of annoying your neighbors and other motorists clearly causes much more harm than good in the medium to long-term. It directly leads to motorcycle-free gated communities, and motorcycle free parking areas. Of course that might keep people from crashing on particularly slippery garages, but it's probably not a great growth strategy for motorcyclists or fans of the hobby.

Again these are all factors, though, you have more experience under you're belt and I'm not going to be stubborn but take your opinion as a learning supplement.

May I ask are you completely against them though? I think it depends on where you live exactly. Construction at 3am isn't rare here in the city so I'm guessing for you it's definitely different, and a motorcycle zipping by isn't doing any harm to anybody. It's not like people don't enjoy the sound, it's awesome, at least I think . there are always going to be loud things going on, loud cars, sirens, Harley's, traffic etc.

Thanks for the input Alex.

[csmith12]

Brain, it's not you. It's everyone else. Thing is, the interior of cages are becoming more soundproof and audio systems in cages are becoming more filling. It was one of the main features I looked for when I purchased a new car a few weeks ago. If I can't hear a semi in the lane beside me, I aint gunna hear you either. Feel me?

[choneofakind]

I'm against it because I think it's frivolous and untrue. Go on google scholar and look up some peer reviewed articles about it. I don't have time to read all these because it's finals week, but these searches should get you off to a good start:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36



Don't forget about noise fatigue. You'll increase your odds of staying safe more by buying a $10 box of earplugs than by buying a $200+ exhaust. Earplugs reduce noise fatigue which will keep you alert for longer and able to make good decisions in an emergency.

Cost vs benefit. Exhausts don't do it.

As usual, @csmith12 hits it on the head without sounding as condescending as I do.
Also, I did mention that I'm totally FOR motorcycle exhausts, but not for the reason you are.

[Alex]

You're still missing the point. It couldn't be clearer.

1. Put whatever the heck you want on your bike. It's only a website. You don't have to listen to anything here anyway.

2. Arguing for why a slip-on is going to make you safer makes you sound like a fool.

3. We are all fools at some point, right now that's you.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

As usual, @csmith12 hits it on the head without sounding as condescending as I do. Also, I did mention that I'm totally FOR motorcycle exhausts, but not for the reason you are. Please read my post thoroughly.

csmith12 may be currently low on testosterone, I think it's all that yoga. Or kung fu or something, I can't tell the difference. Taking out all the condescending is like non-alcoholic beer, what's the point?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're still missing the point. It couldn't be clearer.

1. Put whatever the heck you want on your bike. It's only a website. You don't have to listen to anything here anyway.

2. Arguing for why a slip-on is going to make you safer makes you sound like a fool.

3. We are all fools at some point, right now that's you.

You have more experience under you're belt and I'm not going to be stubborn but take your opinion as a learning supplement.

May I ask are you completely against them though? I think it depends on where you live exactly. Construction at 3am isn't rare here in the city so I'm guessing for you it's definitely different, and a motorcycle zipping by isn't doing any harm to anybody. It's not like people don't enjoy the sound, it's awesome, at least I think . there are always going to be loud things going on, loud cars, sirens, Harley's, traffic etc.

Thanks for the input Alex.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Please, get an exhaust because you want one. I get it, they make you get a boner for your bike; they look awesome, they sound awesome, they make you feel like racerboy when your bike screams on the throttle, and in some cases the can even save some weight and make some power.

You bet!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Alex

Taking out all the condescending is like non-alcoholic beer, what's the point?

To stay hydrated while driving of course! None of those pesky side effects like poor motor skills.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Alex

csmith12 may be currently low on testosterone, I think it's all that yoga. Or kung fu or something, I can't tell the difference. Taking out all the condescending is like non-alcoholic beer, what's the point?

bwhahahhahahahahaaa Let it be anything but Low T. please, please, please.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by csmith12

bwhahahhahahahahaaa Let it be anything but Low T. please, please, please.

And they said loud exhausts were meaningless and a waste of money..

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Brian

And they said loud exhausts were meaningless and a waste of money..

[NevadaWolf]

Another point on why I removed the slip on my bike came with (an MGP growler). The thing was so loud it gave me a headache even while wearing earplugs. I rode 30 miles with it and by the time I got down the mountain, I had to pull over and take my helmet off just to walk it off and get my hearing back. I gritted my teeth the rest of the way home and learned rather quickly how to swap back to the stock pipe.

I didn't care about how safe/unsafe I was around other traffic, the pipe was a danger to me and my ability to concentrate on safely riding.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Another point on why I removed the slip on my bike came with (an MGP growler). The thing was so loud it gave me a headache even while wearing earplugs. I rode 30 miles with it and by the time I got down the mountain, I had to pull over and take my helmet off just to walk it off and get my hearing back. I gritted my teeth the rest of the way home and learned rather quickly how to swap back to the stock pipe.

I didn't care about how safe/unsafe I was around other traffic, the pipe was a danger to me and my ability to concentrate on safely riding.

The thing sounds awesome, you have to let the bike breathe and let it roar sometimes!! Don't you enjoy listening to the way the engine makes noise as you shift gears and the result of that? At least I do. Are your ears really that non-tolerant that you had to wear ear-plugs?

[choneofakind]

MGP's are even louder than TwoBrothers. And they still do nothing for the bike performance-wise... -_-

Can't you hear the engine with it in stock configuration? Or are you already deaf? hahaha I'm teasing. But really. At track speeds (and with other louder track bikes around) you can't hear the bike anyway. This includes highways or open backroads with 55+ speed limits.

[NevadaWolf]

I wear ear plugs with the stock pipe. I like being able to hear the car beside me, someone trying to get my attention when idling, or most importantly the sirens of approaching emergency vehicles.

The slip on cut off my hearing of the world around me. With the stock pipe I can hear the engine fine and more importantly be able to focus after listening to it for 10+ hours of riding.

Besides the only time I really care about hearing the engine is on the track because I am still learning which gear is the best to be in. Since I don't look at my tach, I go by sound and feel.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

I wear ear plugs with the stock pipe. I like being able to hear the car beside me, someone trying to get my attention when idling, or most importantly the sirens of approaching emergency vehicles.

How would wearing the plugs help you hear them..?

[choneofakind]

wow, you really are new to this aren't you?

Earplugs cut the low frequency noises (like wind) that give you headaches and drown out everything around you. The effect is you can still hear everything around you better without the excess wind noise.

Same idea as adjusting your headlight pattern to put out LESS light directly in front of you so that you can see further down the road without blinding yourself from the light that's immediately in front of you. Counter-intuitive isn't it?

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

wow, you really are new to this aren't you?

Earplugs cut the low frequency noises (like wind) that give you headaches and drown out everything around you. The effect is you can still hear everything around you better without the excess wind noise.

Yes, I am new I just picked up my bike about a month ago and haven't ridden it much at all yet due to the weather.

I definitely wouldn't feel safe wearing earplugs as it would cut out the sound around me and also the helmet does the job for me, they would also give me more of a headache because I can't stand things in my ears.. We are making no progress here as you can see.

[NevadaWolf]

Ear plugs are not the noise canceling Bose technological wonders. You can still hear around you. Without the drone of the wind or the constant exhaust noise, I can easily hear when a car is beside me revving their engine as they pass, or the higher pitch of a human voice, and certainly a car horn and siren.

Here's a great thread of what you hear when you ride without eat plugs and why you will destroy your hearing if you don't do anything about it.

[allanoue]

When you start riding you will learn if you are willing. Try a cheap pair of plugs and hear the difference for yourself. This is not rocket science

[Alex]

Chone in his original habitat...

[Brian]

Originally Posted by NevadaWolf

Ear plugs are not the noise canceling Bose technological wonders. You can still hear around you. Without the drone of the wind or the constant exhaust noise, I can easily hear when a car is beside me revving their engine as they pass, or the higher pitch of a human voice, and certainly a car horn and siren.

Here's a great thread of what you hear when you ride without eat plugs and why you will destroy your hearing if you don't do anything about it.

I still wouldn't wear them. I can't stand those earbuds that insert into your ear canal, they would be more of a distraction than anything on my part. My bike isn't loud enough to be unbearing at all, even with my aftermarket exhaust. I have huge subwoofers in my car's trunk and I don't wear 'earplugs' when I'm using to them and my hearing is perfectly fine.

Maybe I've already lost my hearing.

Originally Posted by Alex

Chone in his original habitat...

Quite the contrary

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

I definitely wouldn't feel safe wearing earplugs as it would cut out the sound around me and also the helmet does the job for me, they would also give me more of a headache because I can't stand things in my ears.. We are making no progress here as you can see.

Would you rather keep your hearing for the foreseeable future and hear everything around you or would you rather get ringing ears from wind noise?

You can't give definite reasons for why something won't work if you've never tried them, much less ridden at all... This goes for both the exhaust and the earplugs and probably everything else you're going to do on here for the winter.

Hell, riding a bicycle for a few hours gives me headaches from the wind noise. I'm constantly riding in a 20 mph wind + whatever speed I'm carrying.

[NevadaWolf]

Earbuds are uncomfortable as heck. But properly fitting earplugs, inserted correctly, and designed for what you need them for almost vanish from your awareness. That's why there are several different sizes so you can find the one that fits the best. I only feel mine if i was in a hurry putting them in and don't get a good seal.

Woofers in the trunk are different than right up against your ear.

I was against ear plugs at first too, for the exact reasons you are giving. It took a week long ride going all day where I decided to listen to smarter riders than me. I didn't think they made a difference, so on the last day, I left them out because I was so tired. That short ride was extremely loud and I was only doing 25. I realized them how much they ear plugs cut out and how much my ride enjoyment improved.

But they are your ears. Give it a shot or not, its up to you.

[choneofakind]

Remember that you will never ever get your hearing back.

Eyes can be fixed with LASIK. Joints can be replaced. Brain cells regrow. There's even pills for low T and muscle growth. But your hearing is a one time deal.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Would you rather keep your hearing for the foreseeable future and hear everything around you or would you rather get ringing ears from wind noise?

You can't give definite reasons for why something won't work if you've never tried them, much less ridden at all... This goes for both the exhaust and the earplugs and probably everything else you're going to do on here for the winter.

Hell, riding a bicycle for a few hours gives me headaches from the wind noise. I'm constantly riding in a 20 mph wind + whatever speed I'm carrying.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

God you're such a noob.


deuces.

Cool you've ridden more than me, doesn't make you right about everything, Everybody has different tolerances to everything. I never denied the science that goes into preserving your hearing from wearing them, but it's just something I wouldn't get myself into, especially because I have enough distractions as a new rider. If I see it as a problem maybe I'll look into them, there's just as many people saying "they're good, you need them" as people saying "well, you can go with out them". I know plenty of riders that recommend stuff for different reasons and you're just one of them doing that.

My own opinion is that we shouldn't be riding a motorcycle in the first place if you don't want to hear the own sound of your exhaust, equivalently that goes with breathing the air that has pollution in it, should we walk around with gas masks to prevent future damage to our lungs and respiratory?

It's all circumstance, don't need to be a pro like you to know them:
-How often you ride
-How sensitive you are to this or that
-What your tolerance is to this or that
-Your setting
-How you ride

I can be wrong and definitely will know in the future and I'm glad I can take your guys' opinions into consideration.

[choneofakind]

No it's not about tolerance to sound. That 'tolerance' isn't from being able to deal with higher levels of sound before taking damage, this isn't like being able to control your behavior after drinking too much liquor. That 'tolerance' is from having already done damage to your hearing from exposure to loud noise. By default, if you're not sensitive to loud noises, you've already done damage.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...%2C36&as_sdtp=

knock yourself with some more research.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36

Shouldn't be riding if you don't want to hear your bike? Lol, what's your opinion on riding bicycles, or electric bikes? You know that we're all going to be riding electric in not too long right? Better get some cards in those spokes, Johnny.


TRUST ME when I say that yes you can definitely hear your own stock exhaust with earplugs. Just because you're cutting out some of the noise doesn't mean you're cutting out all of it. You're still going to hear/feel/enjoy it, just not at a level that will continue to do damage to your hearing. Besides, the wind is the main culprit.


May not be right about EVERYTHING. But the good thing about this site is there's still idiots like me who want to pay it forward and help people learn. I started out just like you did (maybe more stubborn about being right on physics and less about noise, but you get the idea) and now I'm more or less a responsible motorcyclist who's had a safe riding history, full of learning and growing. I'm a much more mature rider than I was 4 seasons ago, much more skilled as well.

[csmith12]

Since no progress is being made, let's change the subject.

Originally Posted by Brian

they would also give me more of a headache because I can't stand things in my ears..

I also have this problem. I switched to some 3M earplugs and my issue was solved. Maybe a different brand/make will help you Brian? While the headache thing is a valid reason to not wear plugs, believe it or not, you should be able to hear other sounds more clear with plugs in. It sounds odd and sure, sounds will not be at the same volume but this is a case of quality not quantity.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

No it's not about tolerance to sound. That 'tolerance' isn't from being able to deal with higher levels of sound before taking damage, this isn't like being able to control your behavior after drinking too much liquor. That 'tolerance' is from having already done damage to your hearing from exposure to loud noise. By default, if you're not sensitive to loud noises, you've already done damage.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...%2C36&as_sdtp=

knock yourself with some more research.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C36

Shouldn't be riding if you don't want to hear your bike? Lol, what's your opinion on riding bicycles, or electric bikes? You know that we're all going to be riding electric in not too long right? Better get some cards in those spokes, Johnny.

Electric bike? Oh god, please....really? What got you into riding? I enjoy the smell of the gas and the deep sound that grabs everyone's attention, the fast sound of the exhaust always differentiates between it and a car.

I sure want to keep things responsible as I begin riding in the spring and take my classes, so I can take all the knowledge I can get. I need to take a break from reading the 26 articles you guys are throwing at me. You're all going to make me look like Randy from A Christmas Story when I get out for the first time in the spring for sheesh sake.

"I can't put my arms down!"


Can I ask though?
What do you enjoy about riding your motorcycle? I certainly wouldn't want to cut back on the sound, It's awesome! And if I have to cut that out of the equation I don't see why even upgrading to a bigger bike than a 250 would make sense if I'm just wearing ear-plugs the whole time, unless my ears hurt to hell. Bike's are for showing off! They will never lose their magic.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Brian

Honestly I strongly believe it will save my life in the future.

This makes plenty of sense for me now. I think before I can make judgement I need to get out there and experience it. Which I sure have not yet done good sir. I haven't even taken my classes yet, I'm sure excited, though.

Well I wouldn't believe in it too strongly if I were you. And I'm not a sir.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by ally99

Well I wouldn't believe in it too strongly if I were you. And I'm not a sir.

You are when you hop on a motorcycle! No I'm just kidding..

[choneofakind]

What do I enjoy about riding my motorcycle? hmmm, lemme see. Not showing off for sure.

The fun stuff:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.


and the beautiful scenery I get to ride through in search of fun roads:


The biggest thing was the feel of fresh air, the sunshine, the freedom, the feeling of flying through turns. Same reason I love riding my bicycles.

Electric bikes are awesome!! Look into them a bit. They're amazing when you realize how far they've come and how much potential they still have. Instant torque. perfectly smooth torque application. There's some very cool things going on with those bikes.

Upgrading because of sound? oh my. dude.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Brian

The thing sounds awesome, you have to let the bike breathe and let it roar sometimes!! Don't you enjoy listening to the way the engine makes noise as you shift gears and the result of that? At least I do. Are your ears really that non-tolerant that you had to wear ear-plugs?

For years I fell into the same thought pattern. It wasn't hurting my ears! About 3 years into riding, I noticed I couldn't hear as well over the phone or in conversation. So I started wearing them. I wish I had listened to wiser folks earlier. You can actually hear the sound of the bike BETTER with the right kind of plugs b/c the wind noise is blocked. That's what will eventually kill your ears. I'll never get back the hearing I lost. I'm just glad I opened my mind up to it before it got too bad. Did I hate them, YES. Do I still? Sometimes, but it's worth it. Hell, wear just one and alternate and you'll at least protect your hearing to some extent.

Originally Posted by Brian

Electric bike? Oh god, please....really? What got you into riding? I enjoy the smell of the gas and the deep sound that grabs everyone's attention, the fast sound of the exhaust always differentiates between it and a car.

Ohhhhh, I see. So you ride to grab folks' attention. A lot of things just started making sense. FYI, people pay less attention to you on a bike because frankly, we're invisible. Expect people not to see you (or hear those loud pipes you hope will protect you one day) because they won't.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Upgrading because of sound? oh my. dude.

I never said that. I was also talking about Harley's when I meant showing off.

[csmith12]

@Chone - stop linking pics of mid-o, I am about to die over here. :P

[Brian]

Originally Posted by ally99

Ohhhhh, I see. So you ride to grab folks' attention. A lot of things just started making sense. FYI, people pay less attention to you on a bike because frankly, we're invisible. Expect people not to see you (or hear those loud pipes you hope will protect you one day) because they won't.

I love the sound of motorcycles and the sight of them, interrupts a boring day for me, they're pieces of art! , I guess none of you feel the same and I guess I'm on the wrong forum to be saying that.... It's just an opinion and you're all jumping on it like a fire. Woah

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

@Chone - stop linking pics of mid-o, I am about to die over here. :P

Dude, I'm in withdrawl from them too. :/ too bad I can't do Jennings with you guys in spring.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Brian

I love the sound of motorcycles and the sight of them, interrupts a boring day for me, they're pieces of art! , I guess none of you feel the same and I guess I'm on the wrong forum to be saying that.... It's just an opinion and you're all jumping on it like a fire. Woah

Only difference is that works of art get hung in a museum and taken care of by boring old stuffy men.


Motorcycles get covered in bugs and splattered with mud and ridden until the tires are goo and the whole point is to be in love with the machine.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Only difference is that works of art get hung in a museum and taken care of by boring old stuffy men.


Motorcycles get covered in bugs and splattered with mud and ridden until the tires are goo and the whole point is to be in love with the machine.

You ever ridden a Harley though? Those were born to show off with, sport-bikes, also, but they are far more agile then a Harley. And I said the sound of the bike would get increasingly louder with a bigger bike so the exhaust I purchased would be senseless to completely shut out, it just sounds too fulfilling. Would that be a reason why you stick with the 250? because you seem skilled, and everyone sticks the ninja 250 in the "beginner bike" category even though they are more than supplementary for a motorcycle.

I think I am someone who loves sportbikes as I enjoy Harley's and I'm just stepping into the sport bike territory here.