August 17th, 2015, 11:47 AM | #1 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Clutch slipping partially due to oil change??
Hey everyone, I had a concern come up on a ride the other day and I was hoping to get a little insight or reassurance because I can't find an answer to this anywhere. I recently did an oil change (as I posted on here) and I have since rode about 200 miles. I used a synthetic oil (M1 4T Racing oil to be exact) and yesterday while I was riding it seemed almost like I had to use my clutch less. If I pulled the lever in completely it would act like it was riding the clutch after the shift so I started only pulling the lever about half way and the shifts were much smoother. THEN, I shifted into 2nd and the RPM's rose but the bike didn't accelerate. It has only done this twice over the course of 4 decent rides so I was wondering is this because the clutch is going out or could it be from the oil change? This never happened before the oil change. BTW the bike is an 06 with almost 17K miles. Any insight or advice is greatly appreciated, as always!
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August 17th, 2015, 12:41 PM | #3 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Yes it is, there's about 2mm of free play at the base of the lever.
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August 17th, 2015, 12:50 PM | #4 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Odds are it's not the clutch itself, Kawasaki used the same set-up on bigger bikes like the KZ1000.
I always recommend changing the clutch springs themselves, due to Kawasaki used soft springs, he's my write-up on the subject Quote:
Also as far as oil goes, any 10w-40 to 20w50 rated JASO-MA/MA2 oil will do just fine, my personal favorite is Shell Rotella synthetic. Most modern oils contain additives that while work for car engines, don't work for motorcycles with a wet clutch.
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2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
August 17th, 2015, 12:51 PM | #5 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
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What is the viscosity of the oil you put in recently?
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August 17th, 2015, 12:57 PM | #6 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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The oil was Mobil 1 4T 10W-40 Motorcycle oil. (It said wet clutch protection on the bottle)
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August 17th, 2015, 01:00 PM | #7 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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@Ghostt so if I'm reading this correct, you're saying this is an issue with most Kawi's and can be fixed by replacing the springs but there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with my bike in particular?
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August 17th, 2015, 01:02 PM | #8 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Trust me and change the clutch springs.
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August 17th, 2015, 01:05 PM | #9 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Got it. Will do. When you say the EBC's aren't as stiff as the Barnett does this just translate into the pressure needed on the clutch lever? Any preference towards one or the other?
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August 17th, 2015, 01:11 PM | #10 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Go for the Barnett springs, the Ninjette uses only 4, compared to the zx600 which uses 6. You won't really notice the harder pull, but you will notice the clutch itself fully engaged.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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August 17th, 2015, 01:14 PM | #11 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
As I said the clutch itself is pretty much bulletproof, it's the springs that are the weak link.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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August 17th, 2015, 01:16 PM | #12 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Alrighty then. Off to order some clutch springs...as always thanks a ton!!!
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August 17th, 2015, 01:19 PM | #13 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Also don't forget to use a new gasket, or just RVT.
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August 17th, 2015, 01:28 PM | #14 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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uhh. i donno why you would think theres something wrong with springs that work fine in basically every single motorcycle kawi produces.... i would be more inclined to say he has bad clutch control and burnt through his pads before i would say theres something wrong with his clutch springs... and to just blanket state that replacing his springs will fix his issue seems.... rather... uhh... faith-based. no offense, but i seriously doubt his clutch springs are the issue.
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August 17th, 2015, 01:29 PM | #15 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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OK, I will order a new gasket with the springs.
Barnett aftermarket clutch springs for a 1985-1989 ZX-600, Part # 501-50-05055. These are the springs you recommend right? I'm getting ready to order them right now and want to make sure I get the right ones.
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August 17th, 2015, 01:49 PM | #16 |
cadd cadd cadd
Name: Cadd
Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - May '15
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How's the oil level? Between the two lines on the sight glass?
When checking oil: Bike should not be running Bike off the kickstand Level ground Bike balanced upright
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August 17th, 2015, 01:55 PM | #17 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Oil level is perfect, just below the top line in the sight glass. I've made checking oil level part of my pre-ride check so I check it before and after every ride just to know where it's at.
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August 17th, 2015, 01:58 PM | #18 |
cadd cadd cadd
Name: Cadd
Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - May '15
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Also, does it only do this on the 1st to 2nd shift? Or have you experienced it during shifting in other gears? Would it be possible that the tranny was stuck in neutral between the 1-2 shift?
Try the 2-3 shift. Shift in the higher rpm range in 2nd (10k or more), then when you click it to 3rd gear, as you release the clutch, go wide open throttle. And see if you experience any slip. If you don't, it shouldn't be an issue with the clutch or springs or cable. It may just be the transmission dropped into neutral (either on its own or from a lack of an assertive shift from your left foot). I've had the bike slip out of gear while in the middle of accelerating once in a blue moon. My bike has 11k miles and I experienced this 2 or 3 times. I'll try to find the video. This way you can see if it's similar to your situation. Edit: Here's the video. It slipped out of 3rd into neutral for me.
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August 17th, 2015, 02:21 PM | #19 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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@cadd ... That is exactly what it did!!! That video is exactly what happened to me like 2 or 3 times. It seems like it's in gear and all is well and then all the sudden I'm just revin the piss out of it and lookin like a fool. I use quite a bit of force to get the pedal into the next gear and usually shift anywhere from 8K-10K when I'm riding aggressive. So you're saying that this is normal with these bikes then? Any idea if just replacing the springs will fix the issue?
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August 17th, 2015, 03:20 PM | #20 |
cadd cadd cadd
Name: Cadd
Location: 41°21'13.1"N, 74°41'37.4"W
Join Date: Jan 2014 Motorcycle(s): 300 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - May '15
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Definitely not "normal". It happened to me on the 300 only a handful of times. 3 if I remembered correctly. This is 3x out of 11k miles.
It happened in my previous bikes as well. A 900, 600, 650 & 250. Only once in a blue moon. It could be a bad shift on my part. Who knows. Unless it happens as frequent as once a week, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know if changing the springs will eliminate it completely. How often does this happen to you?
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August 17th, 2015, 03:23 PM | #21 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX250F Posts: 178
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Some oils do slip more than others, i've also noticed they slip a little more when new, and also when cold.
I haven't found the need to run heavier clutch springs, having the clutch slip a little more just means less tear on the throwout mechanism, easier lever feel, and its less likely to break loose the rear tire, not that the ninjette has a huge problem doing that, ha ha! |
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August 17th, 2015, 03:28 PM | #22 | |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Quote:
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August 17th, 2015, 03:28 PM | #23 |
Lostcause enthusiast
Name: Graham
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX250F Posts: 178
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^ the slipping out of gear thing is not clutch slip, its a false neutral, it happens when you don't push all the way through the gear and one gear disengages without the other fully engaging. they leave a little slop between them so you cant have it be in two gears at once which would fully exploderize your transmission.
some people say it is unusually common with the ninjettes, but i think its a combo of inexperienced riders not knowing how to shift, and the incredibly chincy and terrible shift linkage that seems to be completely throttled on every one of these bikes i've ever seen. I usually get a false neutral from 2-3 and its more common when downshifting, for me. |
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August 17th, 2015, 03:51 PM | #24 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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This has only happened to me 4 times and the first time was literally the first ride after changing the oil. In each case it happened after the bike was warm and towards the end of the ride. It happened three times going from 2-3 and once from 1-2. When it happened going from 1-2 I figured false neutral because I had read about it when I was researching right after I bought the bike but I hadn't heard about it happening going from 2-3.
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August 17th, 2015, 03:56 PM | #25 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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I agree, it's a false neutral more than the clutch itself, if anything the upgrade springs are still needed, just because the stock ones are soft, call it preventive maintenance.
As far as false neutral goes, you might what to check out my other thread Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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August 17th, 2015, 04:11 PM | #26 |
Learning to walk
Name: Dave
Location: Boise
Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): 06 Red Ninja 250 Posts: 48
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Well the new clutch springs are definitely needed because I already ordered them and a new gasket.........
More research to come on this "Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring"
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August 17th, 2015, 04:48 PM | #27 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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Quote:
the point i was trying to make is that, the chances of it being worn out springs as opposed to worn out clutch plates or a binding clutch cable, or like... anything else are pretty slim. i just don't like when people suggest that the solution to a problem is to buy fancy parts. 99% of the time thats not the real solution to the problem, even if it makes the problem go away.
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August 17th, 2015, 04:50 PM | #28 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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Quote:
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August 17th, 2015, 06:33 PM | #29 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
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Have you tried the Barnett springs 501-50-05055?
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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August 17th, 2015, 07:35 PM | #30 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
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Huh. And here I thought only BMWs had false neutrals...
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August 17th, 2015, 08:14 PM | #31 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Our '90 was giving a soft engagement after each shift and felt like it was slipping at times. New springs and sanded plates fixed the problem. The OEM springs were shorter and softer than the replacement Barnett springs. Clutch pull is not overly heavy now.
The M1 4T is fine. |
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