Clutch slipping partially due to oil change??

[mcwidave]

Hey everyone, I had a concern come up on a ride the other day and I was hoping to get a little insight or reassurance because I can't find an answer to this anywhere. I recently did an oil change (as I posted on here) and I have since rode about 200 miles. I used a synthetic oil (M1 4T Racing oil to be exact) and yesterday while I was riding it seemed almost like I had to use my clutch less. If I pulled the lever in completely it would act like it was riding the clutch after the shift so I started only pulling the lever about half way and the shifts were much smoother. THEN, I shifted into 2nd and the RPM's rose but the bike didn't accelerate. It has only done this twice over the course of 4 decent rides so I was wondering is this because the clutch is going out or could it be from the oil change? This never happened before the oil change. BTW the bike is an 06 with almost 17K miles. Any insight or advice is greatly appreciated, as always!

[alex.s]

is your clutch cable properly adjusted?

[mcwidave]

Yes it is, there's about 2mm of free play at the base of the lever.

[Ghostt]

Odds are it's not the clutch itself, Kawasaki used the same set-up on bigger bikes like the KZ1000.

I always recommend changing the clutch springs themselves, due to Kawasaki used soft springs, he's my write-up on the subject

Upgrading to performance clutch springs by Ghostt

Choosing Clutch Springs

Barnett aftermarket clutch springs for a 1985-1989 ZX-600, Part # 501-50-05055. You can view them online at the Barnett catalog, here: http://www.barnettclutches.com/produ...&clutch_cc=600 They can be ordered through your local dealership, or at a number of online sources. Here is one such online catalog: http://www.exoticsportbike.com/6001.htm

Another option is the EBC CSK10 (see http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_..._springs.shtml). This kit isn't quite as stiff as the Barnett, but is better than stock and usually a little cheaper. The kit does include six springs, while the ninja 250 only uses four.

I have done the upgrade springs to both my Ninjette and EX.

Also as far as oil goes, any 10w-40 to 20w50 rated JASO-MA/MA2 oil will do just fine, my personal favorite is Shell Rotella synthetic.

Most modern oils contain additives that while work for car engines, don't work for motorcycles with a wet clutch.

[dcj13]

What is the viscosity of the oil you put in recently?

[mcwidave]

The oil was Mobil 1 4T 10W-40 Motorcycle oil. (It said wet clutch protection on the bottle)

[mcwidave]

@Ghostt so if I'm reading this correct, you're saying this is an issue with most Kawi's and can be fixed by replacing the springs but there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with my bike in particular?

[Ghostt]

Trust me and change the clutch springs.

[mcwidave]

Got it. Will do. When you say the EBC's aren't as stiff as the Barnett does this just translate into the pressure needed on the clutch lever? Any preference towards one or the other?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by mcwidave

Got it. Will do. When you say the EBC's aren't as stiff as the Barnett does this just translate into the pressure needed on the clutch lever? Any preference towards one or the other?

Go for the Barnett springs, the Ninjette uses only 4, compared to the zx600 which uses 6. You won't really notice the harder pull, but you will notice the clutch itself fully engaged.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by mcwidave

@Ghostt so if I'm reading this correct, you're saying this is an issue with most Kawi's and can be fixed by replacing the springs but there's nothing necessarily "wrong" with my bike in particular?

Yes Kawasaki installed softer springs on its entry level bikes, the Ninjette and EX500. They did this to make it easier for beginners, and females.

As I said the clutch itself is pretty much bulletproof, it's the springs that are the weak link.

[mcwidave]

Alrighty then. Off to order some clutch springs...as always thanks a ton!!!

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by mcwidave

Alrighty then. Off to order some clutch springs...as always thanks a ton!!!

Good, you won't be sorry. When it comes time to install, put the bike on the side stand, this will keep the oil in, and save you from draining it, you might lose very little.

Also don't forget to use a new gasket, or just RVT.

[alex.s]

uhh. i donno why you would think theres something wrong with springs that work fine in basically every single motorcycle kawi produces.... i would be more inclined to say he has bad clutch control and burnt through his pads before i would say theres something wrong with his clutch springs... and to just blanket state that replacing his springs will fix his issue seems.... rather... uhh... faith-based. no offense, but i seriously doubt his clutch springs are the issue.

[mcwidave]

OK, I will order a new gasket with the springs.

Barnett aftermarket clutch springs for a 1985-1989 ZX-600, Part # 501-50-05055. These are the springs you recommend right? I'm getting ready to order them right now and want to make sure I get the right ones.

[cadd]

How's the oil level? Between the two lines on the sight glass?

When checking oil:
Bike should not be running
Bike off the kickstand
Level ground
Bike balanced upright

[mcwidave]

Oil level is perfect, just below the top line in the sight glass. I've made checking oil level part of my pre-ride check so I check it before and after every ride just to know where it's at.

[cadd]

Also, does it only do this on the 1st to 2nd shift? Or have you experienced it during shifting in other gears? Would it be possible that the tranny was stuck in neutral between the 1-2 shift?

Try the 2-3 shift. Shift in the higher rpm range in 2nd (10k or more), then when you click it to 3rd gear, as you release the clutch, go wide open throttle. And see if you experience any slip.

If you don't, it shouldn't be an issue with the clutch or springs or cable. It may just be the transmission dropped into neutral (either on its own or from a lack of an assertive shift from your left foot).

I've had the bike slip out of gear while in the middle of accelerating once in a blue moon. My bike has 11k miles and I experienced this 2 or 3 times. I'll try to find the video. This way you can see if it's similar to your situation.

Edit: Here's the video. It slipped out of 3rd into neutral for me.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[mcwidave]

@cadd ... That is exactly what it did!!! That video is exactly what happened to me like 2 or 3 times. It seems like it's in gear and all is well and then all the sudden I'm just revin the piss out of it and lookin like a fool. I use quite a bit of force to get the pedal into the next gear and usually shift anywhere from 8K-10K when I'm riding aggressive. So you're saying that this is normal with these bikes then? Any idea if just replacing the springs will fix the issue?

[cadd]

Definitely not "normal". It happened to me on the 300 only a handful of times. 3 if I remembered correctly. This is 3x out of 11k miles.

It happened in my previous bikes as well. A 900, 600, 650 & 250. Only once in a blue moon. It could be a bad shift on my part. Who knows. Unless it happens as frequent as once a week, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know if changing the springs will eliminate it completely.

How often does this happen to you?

[ninjunk]

Some oils do slip more than others, i've also noticed they slip a little more when new, and also when cold.

I haven't found the need to run heavier clutch springs, having the clutch slip a little more just means less tear on the throwout mechanism, easier lever feel, and its less likely to break loose the rear tire, not that the ninjette has a huge problem doing that, ha ha!

[mcwidave]

Originally Posted by alex.s

uhh. i donno why you would think theres something wrong with springs that work fine in basically every single motorcycle kawi produces.... i would be more inclined to say he has bad clutch control and burnt through his pads before i would say theres something wrong with his clutch springs... and to just blanket state that replacing his springs will fix his issue seems.... rather... uhh... faith-based. no offense, but i seriously doubt his clutch springs are the issue.

I don't think clutch control is the issue, I've been riding since I was little. Dirtbikes first, then H-D's and just recently made the switch to the ninjette. Granted there are differences in all three of those types of bikes, but clutch control is pretty similar on them. On top of that I've only put less than 1,000 miles on a bike which has 17K on it. Correct me if I'm wrong here but to do damage to the clutch I would have had to pretty much beat the crap out of right? I guess it could have sustained damage from the PO(s) but it ran fine before I changed the oil.

[ninjunk]

^ the slipping out of gear thing is not clutch slip, its a false neutral, it happens when you don't push all the way through the gear and one gear disengages without the other fully engaging. they leave a little slop between them so you cant have it be in two gears at once which would fully exploderize your transmission.

some people say it is unusually common with the ninjettes, but i think its a combo of inexperienced riders not knowing how to shift, and the incredibly chincy and terrible shift linkage that seems to be completely throttled on every one of these bikes i've ever seen.

I usually get a false neutral from 2-3 and its more common when downshifting, for me.

[mcwidave]

This has only happened to me 4 times and the first time was literally the first ride after changing the oil. In each case it happened after the bike was warm and towards the end of the ride. It happened three times going from 2-3 and once from 1-2. When it happened going from 1-2 I figured false neutral because I had read about it when I was researching right after I bought the bike but I hadn't heard about it happening going from 2-3.

[Ghostt]

I agree, it's a false neutral more than the clutch itself, if anything the upgrade springs are still needed, just because the stock ones are soft, call it preventive maintenance.

As far as false neutral goes, you might what to check out my other thread

Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring

[mcwidave]

Well the new clutch springs are definitely needed because I already ordered them and a new gasket.........

More research to come on this "Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring"

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by mcwidave

I don't think clutch control is the issue, I've been riding since I was little. Dirtbikes first, then H-D's and just recently made the switch to the ninjette. Granted there are differences in all three of those types of bikes, but clutch control is pretty similar on them. On top of that I've only put less than 1,000 miles on a bike which has 17K on it. Correct me if I'm wrong here but to do damage to the clutch I would have had to pretty much beat the crap out of right? I guess it could have sustained damage from the PO(s) but it ran fine before I changed the oil.

17k is enough for the previous owner to wreck the clutch. clutches grab much less when cold, so maybe you just haven't noticed it before?

the point i was trying to make is that, the chances of it being worn out springs as opposed to worn out clutch plates or a binding clutch cable, or like... anything else are pretty slim.

i just don't like when people suggest that the solution to a problem is to buy fancy parts. 99% of the time thats not the real solution to the problem, even if it makes the problem go away.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I agree, it's a false neutral more than the clutch itself, if anything the upgrade springs are still needed, just because the stock ones are soft, call it preventive maintenance.

As far as false neutral goes, you might what to check out my other thread

Factory Pro Blue Magic Shift Spring

theres nothing wrong with the stock springs dude. do you know how many launches i've done with a stock clutch? more than i can count. my clutch is fine.

[Ghostt]

Have you tried the Barnett springs 501-50-05055?

[dcj13]

Huh. And here I thought only BMWs had false neutrals...

[jkv45]

Our '90 was giving a soft engagement after each shift and felt like it was slipping at times. New springs and sanded plates fixed the problem. The OEM springs were shorter and softer than the replacement Barnett springs. Clutch pull is not overly heavy now.

The M1 4T is fine.