Cornering without looking...

[Kscreations08]

TLDR at the bottom.

Everytime you corner, look through your turn. Follow with your head and eyes. Look through your turn. Every corner...

I just got back from a weekend, cross state trip to visit family. 700 miles in a weekend is enough for a sore ass lol.

In that 700 miles, I learned a few things. First, my bike will not even pretend to follow a 1000 Busa on the highway. Second, having a speeding Busa in front helps when the cops are everywhere for Memorial Day weekend. And third, killing a bug with your neck at 70 MPH sucks.

By far, without a doubt, the most important thing I learned this weekend is to look through your turn. That bike will go wherever you are looking. Make sure your looking where you want to go.

I'll start by saying that I had no accident over the course of the whole weekend. Your in the wrong section of the forum for that . However, this one mistake was big enough that there was a chance I wouldn't be here to post this. I was on my way home, riding the 200 miles worth of highway at maybe 10 mph above the speed of traffic, just enough to justify staying in the left lane. With less than an hour left to ride, I stopped to stretch and get gas. As I climbed back onto the bike, I looked out of the gas station to the entrance ramp I needed. Saw a suggested 25mph sign for the ramp and figured it was pretty tight. I was right on that. Not a big deal though. I rode through the 180 degree uphill right hand curve onto the highway and, as I was about 80% of the way through, noticed that there wasn't much of an entrance lane. In fact, there was almost none. First step was to check traffic. Second would be to find an escape if needed (BY THE WAY, THAT IS BACKWARDS! FIND YOUR ESCAPE FIRST). I turned my head to check the traffic and a huge SUV was barreling down the highway at what felt like 90mph. At this point, I'm doing maybe 45, highway speed is 65. The terror was, the turning of my head was enough to deviate me from my line and I crossed over into the path of this One Buffalo Stampede. As sad as it sounds, the only person responsible for avoiding that accident was the driver of the SUV. And he didn't give much room. Within inches, the 2 ton bullet whizzed passed me and my little ninja, and it was my fault it was that close.

End post realization: Fatigue is very dangerous. If you are tired, get off the damn bike for longer than it takes to smoke a cigarette.

TLDR: How do you corner if you have to pay attention to whats behind you with head checks?

[Sirref]

I agree, killing bugs with your neck at speed sucks. I also hate poorly designed entrance ramps like that, good thing you're good. That's a situation where understanding how to brake while cornering can be a critical skill on the streets. If the entrance ramp is blocked/very short and you can't get up to speed in time to match due to someone speeding then stopping and launching after the car goes by is the way to go. On the note of scan traffic and find an escape route. You can do both simultaneously.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Kscreations08

...........TLDR: How do you corner if you have to pay attention to whats behind you with head checks?

How would you do it if driving your car in the same circumstances?
Would you stop or accelerate or jump blind into traffic?

The SUV surely had a sign for merging traffic into his lane and did not move over to the next lane to give room to slower traffic, having better view of the situation.

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The SUV surely had a sign for merging traffic into his lane and did not move over to the next lane to give room to slower traffic, having better view of the situation.

I thought of this right after he passed and was mad for a split second. Then I remembered that its a cager and I was lucky he even saw me, let alone moved over to avoid killing me. In the end, I'm in charge of the situation I'm in and that situation was my fault. In the car, I honestly don't know how I would've handled it. I assume that my entrance speed would've been slower due to the curve and I would've been able to stop (because braking and corning at the same time is easy in a car).

[jeffb502]

Any satellite photos? Can you tell us what the on ramp was so we can look it up?

Most freeway entrance ramps have a shoulder on the right. Instead of stopping on the on ramp, if the shoulder is clear of debris it can generally be used to merge into traffic in difficult situations. Stopping on an on ramp is dangerous, means you have failed at merging, and should re-take driving school.

Many people do not understand how to merge. The most common mistake is moving too slowly. You should be moving at the speed of the traffic with which you wish to merge. If you are moving slower than the speed limit when you are trying to merge you are doing something wrong or the speed limit on the road you are trying to merge on to should be lowered. Traffic moving slower than traffic it is merging with requires a larger gap in said traffic. The faster you are going, the easier it is (to a point).

Priorities:
1. Be moving fast enough to safely blend with traffic
2. Have an escape route- is the shoulder clear if you can't find an opening? Remember- merging traffic is required to yield to thru traffic.
3. Shoulder check and find a gap in traffic- sometimes on 180 degree on ramps you can actually pick a gap BEFORE starting the 180 degree turn, then the shoulder check just confirms the gap is still there.
4. Adjust speed to enter the gap (sometimes I have to slow down to match the slow lane speed).

How to shoulder check: On my bicycle I found taking my left hand off the handle bar when checking my left shoulder would prevent unwanted bar inputs. I would find myself wandering left when looking over my left shoulder with both hands on the bars. As a reminder I would place my left hand on my left leg (then use it to make a left hand signal once I had chosen my gap) to make sure I had taken it off the bar. You might give that a try.

On another note, I found myself almost running off the road twice while making left turns at intersections on rural roads. My problem in both cases was a habit I had acquired in my car. In my car I will check left-right-left, then go, then as I'm in the middle of the left turn and it is clear ahead I will do one last right check in the mirror and over my right shoulder to make sure I'm not cutting somebody off (maybe a fast moving motorcycle that just came around the corner that I looked at a few seconds ago). On my motorcycle that last check over my right shoulder was causing me to move right in the middle of the left turn. Now I avoid looking over my right shoulder on the motorcycle while making left turns. If I absolutely have to (say I'm turning left onto a road with a blind curve to my right) I'll make a left turn kind of onto the double yellow line (with no oncoming traffic), then do a right mirror/shoulder check before moving right into the travel lane.

Here's a video of a bad driver I took just today.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Notice:

1. He doesn't seem to understand what an apex is, and even though he drifts all the way onto the shoulder making his right turn he takes way too early of an apex.

2. He fails to accelerate in the area provided to accelerate to the speed of traffic. I have to stop my acceleration to freeway speed because he's in the way driving too slow.

3. We enter traffic at about 45mph in a 65mph zone. Drivers are forced to move left to avoid a collision. This is wrong.

In this situation I knew I had a shoulder to use if I had to. If there was a solid line of traffic doing 90 in the right lane and nobody moved over to give me room I would use the shoulder to accelerate to 90 and squeeze into a small gap I wouldn't be able to squeeze into at 45.

[alex.s]

you should practice driving straight while looking to the side or moving your body etc etc. it might reveal problems like locked arms or something

try not to run into something

[csmith12]

^^^ what he said

With a bit of training and enough practice, going where you look can be "on purpose" vs. "by accident".

[cbinker]

oh, you are talking about an on ramp, it is an acquired skill.

[Kscreations08]

I cant find a satellite picture of it because I only have the approx location at the time. Tried scanning I80 on google maps but cant find it. Im going to my favorite big empty parking spot and im gonna practice riding backwards lol

[cbinker]

Are you talking about something like this? This one is up hill right "Clover Leaf", its a bitch to merge here, so i just take a quick visual of where traffic is and pin the throttle up to 70.

[b.miller123]

Sounds like you just weren't going fast enough to merge into traffic.

Fwiw, the guy in the SUV had zero duty to move over to let you in. That is why most people can't merge to save their life: they fail to understand that the vehicle that is already occupying the lane that the on-ramp is merging into has the right of way. Literally one of the most basic concepts of driving. They are not required to adjust their speed in any way, or move over to let people in. In driver's education class they are supposed to teach you to just maintain your speed when you are the one with the right of way. Most places have a yield sign posted at on ramps because people still don't realize this (not that it helps any).

Of course if you feel like being nice, you can speed up/slow down and make a gap for someone. But again, it is the duty of the vehicle coming onto the the freeway to adjust its speed to match the traffic that it is joining.

[capt_bugaloo]

What b.miller123 wrote.

[allanoue]

My best guess for location
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0257...vRjQ!2e0?hl=en

[csmith12]

Like this...

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

Sounds like you just weren't going fast enough to merge into traffic.

Fwiw, the guy in the SUV had zero duty to move over to let you in. That is why most people can't merge to save their life: they fail to understand that the vehicle that is already occupying the lane that the on-ramp is merging into has the right of way. Literally one of the most basic concepts of driving. They are not required to adjust their speed in any way, or move over to let people in. In driver's education class they are supposed to teach you to just maintain your speed when you are the one with the right of way. Most places have a yield sign posted at on ramps because people still don't realize this (not that it helps any).

Of course if you feel like being nice, you can speed up/slow down and make a gap for someone. But again, it is the duty of the vehicle coming onto the the freeway to adjust its speed to match the traffic that it is joining.

I absolutely agree. I know this was my fault. I knew I was moving too slow and was starting to speed up now that the corner was ending. I ended up catching up to the guy because of an old lady in the fast lane lol. I waved to apologize and he gave me a thumbs up.

Originally Posted by allanoue

My best guess for location
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0257...vRjQ!2e0?hl=en

Company computer has the other posters pictures blocked but I see this one and it looks like this is the right spot. Aside from slow corner speed, how could I improve here? I tried the parking lot practice of riding without looking but I still had that huge turn to start, preventing a check on traffic flow thanks to the hill. I want to improve. I want to do better. Teach me Oh Wise Ones! no seriously though, I want to learn

[allanoue]

It looks like you had enough lane after the turn to get up to speed but you say when you looked over your shoulder you wanders out of your lane. When I was new I had the same concern and @DaBlue1 suggested I get a Reevu I love it. you can look 360 degrees around just turning your head 45 degrees in ether direction. I feel half blind using any other helmet. Otherwise, go to a parking lot and practice looking behind you in a strate line. Like others have said. Scute your butt off the seat to the right, let go of the left handle bar and put your left hand on the pillion seat. (this whole time keep looking forward) Then take a quick pick as fast as you can and get your eyes forward, your brain will sort out what you saw after you look. @alex.s

[oblivion007]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Like this...

Basically this. If feel that if I have a good clear view of the on-ramp ahead of me such that I can even see if there are road hazards like oil or rubble I feel pretty comfortable doing this. But not so much with left turns, in those cases I just look where I want to go, set up the turn, glance back and turn back to face forward.

[subxero]

just clutch up a wheelie, the vehicle on the highway will be so impressed and distracted by your skillz that they will subconsciously slow down making it easier for you to merge in front of them

[Desmoluci]

Notice how the guy on the KTM has his left hand off the bar to look behind him.
When doing a head-check, your shoulder tends to move with your head, which puts pressure on the bar in that direction, so you turn in that direction.
And I'm finding out it doesn't take much pressure on a 250r to turn these things.

Try to keep your shoulders straight when turning your head.
My 2c.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Desmoluci

Notice how the guy on the KTM has his left hand off the bar to look behind him.
When doing a head-check, your shoulder tends to move with your head, which puts pressure on the bar in that direction, so you turn in that direction.
And I'm finding out it doesn't take much pressure on a 250r to turn these things.

Try to keep your shoulders straight when turning your head.
My 2c.

Don't you mean keep your shoulders still when you turn your head? The guy on the KTN (Kscreations08 said can't see) has his way turned.

[Desmoluci]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Don't you mean keep your shoulders still when you turn your head?

Yes.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

..........Fwiw, the guy in the SUV had zero duty to move over to let you in..........Of course if you feel like being nice, you can speed up/slow down and make a gap for someone. But again, it is the duty of the vehicle coming onto the the freeway to adjust its speed to match the traffic that it is joining.

In a perfect world, the vehicle on the right lane will not be speeding or tailgating.
But in real life, both things happen frequently, placing the merging vehicle in a dangerous situation: hard to match the excess of speed and finding no gap.
It has happened to me many times, almost each day when I merge into I-95, forcing me to look back, forward and through the mirrors to make all kind of mental calculations.
I remember one morning that I found two 18 wheeler tailgating each other on the right lane coinciding with my merge on a ramp that had been shorten by road construction.

I understand that, having to define a who-yields-situation, most traffic laws liberate that guy in the SUV from any duty to move over or slowdown, ......... but why not putting a little effort?
If he had the advantage of the visibility over the merger and it was evident to him that a slow bike (probably someone with little experience or skills) was trying to merge, where is the glory in endangering that rider?

As I see it, each user of the road should cooperate to make things safer to everyone.
Bad or old or stressed drivers area everywhere (especially here in Florida) and real good drivers are always tolerant and even compassionate.

I find this article interesting:
http://seniordriving.aaa.com/improve...ding-right-way

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Kscreations08

...........Im going to my favorite big empty parking spot and im gonna practice riding backwards lol

Once you have acquired enough experience to understand that when the MSF instructors tell new riders that "you go where you look", they are not telling all the true.

Yes, that is a natural survival reaction (SR), but any good rider can look at any direction, while the bike goes as you have planned it.

Therefore, practicing keeping relaxed upper-body and arms while looking at different directions may be less difficult than "practicing riding backwards".

As for merging, you need to be way ahead of the point of merging regarding traffic situation and relative speeds.
You should alternate your focus between side-rear and forward, even if you are on a tight turn.

Be very careful at there and consider that our bikes have more braking capability than accelerating power.

[ally99]

Wow. Subscribed. One of my new favorite threads. Good info!

[psykown]

Originally Posted by ally99

Wow. Subscribed. One of my new favorite threads. Good info!

Idk if this will help but when I look over my left shoulder I first push my right knee forward a bit to turn my hips and shoulders while still going straight and then turn and take a look, I find I ride straighter like this rather then just trying to turn my shoulders and head

[alex.s]

i usually do around +15 from the traffic speed when entering the freeway just because it gives me more options when things like some guy trying to exit or some other bike splitting the shoulder pop out of nowhere. the bike only has 30ish hp so not much acceleration so this means i have to really grab the goose to get it up in time. but it has good braking power. i wind up slowing down as i begin to enter traffic. then i usually find a short sedan without tinted windows that is easy to see through to follow behind and to the right of. on bigger bikes i enter slower since they can accelerate quicker i need to.

[EsrTek]

Originally Posted by psykown

Idk if this will help but when I look over my left shoulder I first push my right knee forward a bit to turn my hips and shoulders while still going straight and then turn and take a look, I find I ride straighter like this rather then just trying to turn my shoulders and head

It's all starts in your foot placement, get on ball of foot and point toes toward outside. Do this with the foot on the side you need to look at. (e.g. most US on-ramps are right turns, so position your left foot.
then get but off seat, to your opposite side of the foot you positioned (in this example: butt off to your right).
This allows you to pivot hips (which then makes your right knee move forward, and drops your left shoulder)
All combined gives a much better look of traffic your merging into.

[Kscreations08]

Ok so what I'm getting out of this so far:

First, faster corner. Merge with traffic at correct speed (and hope traffic isn't speeding lol) Practicing faster corners is always fun.

Second, experiment with BP. Practice not looking where im going without crashing or veering off course. I'm gonna start slow on this one lol

Third, riding backwards is a stunter move and serves no real purpose on the street

Thanks guys!

[alex.s]

just dont crash

[Kscreations08]

And just don't crash. Got it

[b.miller123]

Originally Posted by Motofool

In a perfect world, the vehicle on the right lane will not be speeding or tailgating.
But in real life, both things happen frequently, placing the merging vehicle in a dangerous situation: hard to match the excess of speed and finding no gap.
It has happened to me many times, almost each day when I merge into I-95, forcing me to look back, forward and through the mirrors to make all kind of mental calculations.
I remember one morning that I found two 18 wheeler tailgating each other on the right lane coinciding with my merge on a ramp that had been shorten by road construction.

I understand that, having to define a who-yields-situation, most traffic laws liberate that guy in the SUV from any duty to move over or slowdown, ......... but why not putting a little effort?
If he had the advantage of the visibility over the merger and it was evident to him that a slow bike (probably someone with little experience or skills) was trying to merge, where is the glory in endangering that rider?

As I see it, each user of the road should cooperate to make things safer to everyone.
Bad or old or stressed drivers area everywhere (especially here in Florida) and real good drivers are always tolerant and even compassionate.

I find this article interesting:
http://seniordriving.aaa.com/improve...ding-right-way

I see your point, but in the real world, people are dicks. I'm one of them. If I'm on the freeway in he left lane and I see someone getting on and they aren't going fast enough, I don't get over or slow down. You know why? Because I don't have to.

Maybe next time they will think about the fact that they are entering a freeway.

[Kscreations08]

Originally Posted by b.miller123

I see your point, but in the real world, people are dicks. I'm one of them. If I'm on the freeway in he left lane and I see someone getting on and they aren't going fast enough, I don't get over or slow down. You know why? Because I don't have to.

Maybe next time they will think about the fact that they are entering a freeway.

Thankfully, it wasn't you that passed me that day.