Periodic hot weather issues

lolibater · October 18th, 2012, 10:38 PM

I have an 02 ex250 with aftermarket EFI. The EFI has 2 modes, learning and power. When you first install the kit, as well as if you do any extensive modification afterwards, you must put it in learning mode for about a week give or take.

I recently installed pod filters which required the bike to be put into learning mode so that the ECU can learn the AFR maps again. It's been learning since sunday. I assume that since the pod filters flow more air, while it's learning it might be a bit lean.

I will point out it was ****ing hot the past few days. No issues yesterday.

I ride this bike ~50 miles every day. Today I rode from Alameda to CycleGear Hayward to get a new face shield and to watch some GP. I was there for about 20 - 30 min. Bike fired right up when I got back on to head to the bank, on top of the huge hill in Hayward. I get to the top, handle my business, and about 30 min later the bike is acting weird when I go to start it.

At first it starts right up but then idles progressively lower and lower until it dies. I try to start it again and it just stumbles but doesn't start. After that it just cranks.

The weirdest part of this all was that the temp gauge on the cluster read that the bike was cold. And by cold I mean that it should have been wamred up before being riden. The coolant tank itself wasn't hot at all. Having sat for 30 min, both sides of the engine were SO hot that it burned me worse than the bike ever has before. ****ing weird.

I let it sit for almost 2 hours while I talked to various other barfers about what the issue might be. Finally it started back up after the ambient temperature had dropped considerably.

This behavior has happened in the past when I lived in livermore during the summer, but never to this extent.

WTF could this be? I can 99.9999999999% get this bike to run day in and day out with no issues, even when it's hot, but it NEVER has issues when it is cold out.

Motofool · October 19th, 2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

.........The weirdest part of this all was that the temp gauge on the cluster read that the bike was cold. And by cold I mean that it should have been wamred up before being riden. The coolant tank itself wasn't hot at all. Having sat for 30 min, both sides of the engine were SO hot that it burned me worse than the bike ever has before. ****ing weird.
....

May it be poor coolant circulation due to pump, radiator, thermostat?

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 10:30 AM

Not that I'm saying you're wrong, but would that still be the case even though on days under 90* it starts and heats/cools perfectly fine?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 10:52 AM

Strange but you definitely have a blockage of coolant flow. Perhaps the engine overheated and didn't want to start because of expanded metal parts? Wherever the temp sensor is is at least blocked. I would drain the coolant and get an air compressor through the hoses and see what's up. Check your thermostat.

You say it runs fine in cooler temps, well that could just be an illusion because the right variables are working together. I wouldn't drive it very far until you get this fixed.

My old mustang overheated once and it wouldn't start until it cooled down. I'm not sure if this is a safety mechanism or if that's just how hot engines act....

alex.s · October 19th, 2012, 11:03 AM

thermostat's ****ed

Motofool · October 19th, 2012, 11:27 AM

Well, the engine has signs of increased friction due to overheating.

It is possible that is working extremely lean, at least for brief periods of time, which increases the temperature.

However, the cooling system should be working hard after those overheating episodes happen.

It is just not normal that the cylinders feel super-hot, while the temperature gauge is reading cool.

What I am trying to point out is that the cooling response does not correspond with the extra heat generation.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 11:32 AM

I had a feeling that I incorrectly burped the cooling system this past time that I did it. I just didn't think much of it until this **** started yesterday. It runs perfectly fine today.

How do YOU burp the system? I want to make sure I'm doing it right.

csmith12 · October 19th, 2012, 11:40 AM

Put on center stand
Remove radiator cap
Add coolant if not full
Run bike until engine is warm enough to open thermostat
Add coolant if needed
Give it a few revs to push air pockets up
Add coolant if needed
Give it a few rives to push air pockets up
Add coolant if needed
Fill reservoir
Go for a short ride
Check reservoir
Add coolant if needed

Keep close eye on temp gauge and keep reservoir filled

alex.s · October 19th, 2012, 11:46 AM

heres my method that seems to work great for me:

cap off, keep filled while you pump the radiator output tubing with your hand (squeeze, release, squeeze, release, etc). keep pumping quickly and keep the cap filled... eventually it will stop going down. put it back together, go for a ride to open the thermostat, come back, wait for it to cool and check the fill cap... if its gone down repeat the process.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:03 PM

I've never burped my system as I've always forgotten too. Check your overflow tank as well

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:04 PM

Thanks guys I will try this when I get home from work today. I have a feeling that since I was going up such a steep hill, the air in the cooling system might have gotten to the radiator since it was in front. Make sense?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:05 PM

Might be fastest to take the thermostat out and close the system back up to see if the issue persists. I believe it's gonna be right above the valve cover/spark plug wires.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:08 PM

overflow tank is full. It's just weird that this happened on an extreme incline, when it was hot. Air would move to the highest point correct?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

overflow tank is full. It's just weird that this happened on an extreme incline, when it was hot. Air would move to the highest point correct?

Yeah but not if theres a blockage.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:14 PM

Well when I refill and burp, if I don't see it flowing into the radiator, I'll think there might be a blockage.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

Well when I refill and burp, if I don't see it flowing into the radiator, I'll think there might be a blockage.

Trace the flow with the parts diagram. I would recommend taking the thermostat out to see if flow resumes I think there's only 3 bolts under the gas tank....

http://www.kneedraggers.com/oem-part...mmy_source=oem

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:30 PM

27010?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

27010?

49054.

The part you listed is the thermostatic switch which just opens/closes your fan circuit.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:46 PM

Thanks.

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

Thanks.

Np; and by the way, if you want to check your thermostat further you can put it in a pot of hot water (coolant is toxic fyi) to see if it opens and closes at the right temperature. Should open at 146-152 Degrees F, with about 1/4" of travel (less is bad).

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 12:57 PM

Do I do that with it on the bike?

FvnnyL3tt3r1ng · October 19th, 2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolibater

Do I do that with it on the bike?

No because you have to watch it to see if the passage opens at the right temp. You will need a food-type thermometer which is ~ $5-$10. Should be at any grocery store.

http://www.ablekitchen.com/supplies/...campaign=feeds

maybe heat the water up and pour it into a plastic container with the thermostat in it that you can throw away afterwards.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 01:06 PM

I have one of those thankfully. I'll do that thanks!

Motofool · October 19th, 2012, 01:31 PM

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cooling_system

CZroe · October 19th, 2012, 03:38 PM

Did you ever open the gas tank? On a newgen, the tank can and will form a vacuum if the engine heat conducts up into it after parking and then it cools when you start riding. You did park for 20 minutes and then ride to the bank at the top of the hill, and that's exactly like the "park for 15-30 minutes and the ride off" scenario that usually causes my newgen to behave similarly a block or two down the road. It has happened to me several times but that's usually thousands of miles between incidents.

lolibater · October 19th, 2012, 04:01 PM

Yes, that was the first thing I did. Tried it multiple times over the 2 hour period.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 02:24 PM

This thing reared its ugly head again today at the worst time possible of course. It's pretty warm outside and I turned my bike off for 20 min waiting for some other riders during a group ride, and when I tried to start it back up, it just cranks and cranks.

Multiple people tried to bump start it, but that didn't work.

I waited about an hour and a half in the shade, and the bike started fine. I rode it home without stopping, and then just for shits and giggles tried to start it after I parked in the garage. It just cranked.

I could just be paranoid, but is there any way this could be a blown head gasket? I don't see how the ambient temp could affect it that much if it is. My coolant was a bit low when I got home today, but that may just be the after effect of me bleeding the air out of it yesterday. I can't be certain, but my oil looks a bit lower than it did yesterday. I'm really just speculating at this point.

Is there any way to test for this?

My coolant doesn't look oil contaminated, and my oil looks clean as well.

I just cleaned off the entire engine to make sure any leaks will show up when I run it next. I put a little more coolant in as well.

Motofool · October 28th, 2012, 02:58 PM

Time to remove the T-stat as Justin recommended above.

I don't see a clue that leads to the head gasket.

Either intermittent insufficient cooling or/and lean condition from malfunctioning fuel injection, IMHO.

Check this post out for some clues:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=38

choneofakind · October 28th, 2012, 03:08 PM

Have you ever adjusted the start-up mix for a start with a warm engine?

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Have you ever adjusted the start-up mix for a start with a warm engine?

Huh?

choneofakind · October 28th, 2012, 03:49 PM

Ok, that's a no

In ProCal, there's tables of values for amount of fuel used during startup and warm up, dependent upon engine temp and ambient air temp. It's the same idea as using the choke, only it has to be programmed instead of manually adjusted.

If you've never touched it, you're fine.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 03:52 PM

I haven't, but what I do notice when it starts up is as follows:

When the bike first starts it idles really low, showing 500 rpms on the tach (idk how proper my tach is)

After a while of that, the rpms raise to about 1500, and sit steady.

I thought chokes were supposed to raise rpms, not lower them?

I still am having the fluctuating idle where it bounces between 1k - 2k as well, but that might be because it's in learning mode still.

choneofakind · October 28th, 2012, 04:02 PM

My idle changes when the engine warms up as well. It starts around 1200, then goes up to 1500 after about a minute, then goes up to my normal idle of about 1600 once it's warmed.

It seems to work just fine. I guess the ecotrons ecu doesn't increase idle speed during warm up; only richens the mixture. idk. I've not had any issues with start-up.

Do a test for me. Next time you get funny idle, reach down and unplug your headlight while the bike is running. See if the idle fixes itself immediately when the headlight is unplugged. That's what mine did.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 04:03 PM

I'll make sure to do that. What are you thinking though?

choneofakind · October 28th, 2012, 04:08 PM

I think the stator on pre-gen's put out less power than the stator on the newgens. When we have two O2 sensors, an ECU, a headlight, and all the normal electronics running, we draw more power than we make at idle, making the efi kit get less power than it wants, and it runs funny because of it.

When I switched to a 35W HID headlight (saving 20W of power over a 55W Halogen), my idling got better. Now I only get some very small oscillations, and only as the bike is warming up to full operating temp as I ride. They're only occasional oscillations that are >100 rpm.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 04:12 PM

That sounds almost exactly like what's happening to me. I always have wondered why I never have fluctuations during riding, only during idle at red lights. Is there any way around switching to a HID?

choneofakind · October 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM

That's also part of why I'm going to get off of eco mode and onto rich mode; I can ditch the O2 sensors and lower power usage a little. There's not a whole lot of places to cut power.

My other thought was to get the biggest honkin battery that I could fit in the battery box, but that would just make it take longer to start oscillations, not get rid of them.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 04:37 PM

I'll make sure to try that out.

I"m wondering what else could possibly be causing my bike to not start in warm/hot weather after being run for a while.

lolibater · October 28th, 2012, 05:16 PM

I wonder if any of this is related to valve clearance. I still have not had them professionally done, and my confidence in my ability might be misplaced.

Every time this issue occurs, I go to start the bike after a short period of not riding. It usually starts up but the idle is super low, until it dies. After that it will crank and crank until you give it about 2 hours time.

Cold starts are fine.

Alex · October 28th, 2012, 05:22 PM

Like we said at the side of the road, if you need anyone to kick it over and light it on fire, we're here for you.

(the 300's are calling you!

)

October 18th, 2012, 10:38 PM	#1
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Periodic hot weather issues I have an 02 ex250 with aftermarket EFI. The EFI has 2 modes, learning and power. When you first install the kit, as well as if you do any extensive modification afterwards, you must put it in learning mode for about a week give or take. I recently installed pod filters which required the bike to be put into learning mode so that the ECU can learn the AFR maps again. It's been learning since sunday. I assume that since the pod filters flow more air, while it's learning it might be a bit lean. I will point out it was **ing hot the past few days. No issues yesterday. I ride this bike ~50 miles every day. Today I rode from Alameda to CycleGear Hayward to get a new face shield and to watch some GP. I was there for about 20 - 30 min. Bike fired right up when I got back on to head to the bank, on top of the huge hill in Hayward. I get to the top, handle my business, and about 30 min later the bike is acting weird when I go to start it. At first it starts right up but then idles progressively lower and lower until it dies. I try to start it again and it just stumbles but doesn't start. After that it just cranks. The weirdest part of this all was that the temp gauge on the cluster read that the bike was cold. And by cold I mean that it should have been wamred up before being riden. The coolant tank itself wasn't hot at all. Having sat for 30 min, both sides of the engine were SO hot that it burned me worse than the bike ever has before. **ing weird. I let it sit for almost 2 hours while I talked to various other barfers about what the issue might be. Finally it started back up after the ambient temperature had dropped considerably. This behavior has happened in the past when I lived in livermore during the summer, but never to this extent. WTF could this be? I can 99.9999999999% get this bike to run day in and day out with no issues, even when it's hot, but it NEVER has issues when it is cold out. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 10:30 AM	#3
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Not that I'm saying you're wrong, but would that still be the case even though on days under 90* it starts and heats/cools perfectly fine? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 11:03 AM	#5
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	thermostat's ****ed __________________________________________________

October 19th, 2012, 11:27 AM	#6
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	Well, the engine has signs of increased friction due to overheating. It is possible that is working extremely lean, at least for brief periods of time, which increases the temperature. However, the cooling system should be working hard after those overheating episodes happen. It is just not normal that the cylinders feel super-hot, while the temperature gauge is reading cool. What I am trying to point out is that the cooling response does not correspond with the extra heat generation. __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

October 19th, 2012, 11:32 AM	#7
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I had a feeling that I incorrectly burped the cooling system this past time that I did it. I just didn't think much of it until this **** started yesterday. It runs perfectly fine today. How do YOU burp the system? I want to make sure I'm doing it right. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 10:52 AM	#4
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	Strange but you definitely have a blockage of coolant flow. Perhaps the engine overheated and didn't want to start because of expanded metal parts? Wherever the temp sensor is is at least blocked. I would drain the coolant and get an air compressor through the hoses and see what's up. Check your thermostat. You say it runs fine in cooler temps, well that could just be an illusion because the right variables are working together. I wouldn't drive it very far until you get this fixed. My old mustang overheated once and it wouldn't start until it cooled down. I'm not sure if this is a safety mechanism or if that's just how hot engines act....

October 19th, 2012, 11:40 AM	#8
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Put on center stand Remove radiator cap Add coolant if not full Run bike until engine is warm enough to open thermostat Add coolant if needed Give it a few revs to push air pockets up Add coolant if needed Give it a few rives to push air pockets up Add coolant if needed Fill reservoir Go for a short ride Check reservoir Add coolant if needed Keep close eye on temp gauge and keep reservoir filled __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

October 19th, 2012, 11:46 AM	#9
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	heres my method that seems to work great for me: cap off, keep filled while you pump the radiator output tubing with your hand (squeeze, release, squeeze, release, etc). keep pumping quickly and keep the cap filled... eventually it will stop going down. put it back together, go for a ride to open the thermostat, come back, wait for it to cool and check the fill cap... if its gone down repeat the process. __________________________________________________

October 19th, 2012, 12:03 PM	#10
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	I've never burped my system as I've always forgotten too. Check your overflow tank as well

October 19th, 2012, 12:04 PM	#11
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Thanks guys I will try this when I get home from work today. I have a feeling that since I was going up such a steep hill, the air in the cooling system might have gotten to the radiator since it was in front. Make sense? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 12:05 PM	#12
FvnnyL3tt3r1ng ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Justin Location: Florida Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 2001 Posts: A lot.	Might be fastest to take the thermostat out and close the system back up to see if the issue persists. I believe it's gonna be right above the valve cover/spark plug wires.

October 19th, 2012, 12:08 PM	#13
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	overflow tank is full. It's just weird that this happened on an extreme incline, when it was hot. Air would move to the highest point correct? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 12:14 PM	#15
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Well when I refill and burp, if I don't see it flowing into the radiator, I'll think there might be a blockage. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 12:30 PM	#17
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	27010? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 12:46 PM	#19
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Thanks. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 12:57 PM	#21
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Do I do that with it on the bike? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 01:06 PM	#23
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I have one of those thankfully. I'll do that thanks! __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 19th, 2012, 01:31 PM	#24
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cooling_system __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

October 19th, 2012, 03:38 PM	#25
CZroe CPT Falcon Name: J.Emmett Turner Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.	Did you ever open the gas tank? On a newgen, the tank can and will form a vacuum if the engine heat conducts up into it after parking and then it cools when you start riding. You did park for 20 minutes and then ride to the bank at the top of the hill, and that's exactly like the "park for 15-30 minutes and the ride off" scenario that usually causes my newgen to behave similarly a block or two down the road. It has happened to me several times but that's usually thousands of miles between incidents.

October 19th, 2012, 04:01 PM	#26
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	Yes, that was the first thing I did. Tried it multiple times over the 2 hour period. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 02:24 PM	#27
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	This thing reared its ugly head again today at the worst time possible of course. It's pretty warm outside and I turned my bike off for 20 min waiting for some other riders during a group ride, and when I tried to start it back up, it just cranks and cranks. Multiple people tried to bump start it, but that didn't work. I waited about an hour and a half in the shade, and the bike started fine. I rode it home without stopping, and then just for shits and giggles tried to start it after I parked in the garage. It just cranked. I could just be paranoid, but is there any way this could be a blown head gasket? I don't see how the ambient temp could affect it that much if it is. My coolant was a bit low when I got home today, but that may just be the after effect of me bleeding the air out of it yesterday. I can't be certain, but my oil looks a bit lower than it did yesterday. I'm really just speculating at this point. Is there any way to test for this? My coolant doesn't look oil contaminated, and my oil looks clean as well. I just cleaned off the entire engine to make sure any leaks will show up when I run it next. I put a little more coolant in as well. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 02:58 PM	#28
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	Time to remove the T-stat as Justin recommended above. I don't see a clue that leads to the head gasket. Either intermittent insufficient cooling or/and lean condition from malfunctioning fuel injection, IMHO. Check this post out for some clues: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...9&postcount=38 __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

October 28th, 2012, 03:08 PM	#29
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Have you ever adjusted the start-up mix for a start with a warm engine?

October 28th, 2012, 03:49 PM	#31
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Ok, that's a no In ProCal, there's tables of values for amount of fuel used during startup and warm up, dependent upon engine temp and ambient air temp. It's the same idea as using the choke, only it has to be programmed instead of manually adjusted. If you've never touched it, you're fine.

October 28th, 2012, 03:52 PM	#32
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I haven't, but what I do notice when it starts up is as follows: When the bike first starts it idles really low, showing 500 rpms on the tach (idk how proper my tach is) After a while of that, the rpms raise to about 1500, and sit steady. I thought chokes were supposed to raise rpms, not lower them? I still am having the fluctuating idle where it bounces between 1k - 2k as well, but that might be because it's in learning mode still. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 04:02 PM	#33
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	My idle changes when the engine warms up as well. It starts around 1200, then goes up to 1500 after about a minute, then goes up to my normal idle of about 1600 once it's warmed. It seems to work just fine. I guess the ecotrons ecu doesn't increase idle speed during warm up; only richens the mixture. idk. I've not had any issues with start-up. Do a test for me. Next time you get funny idle, reach down and unplug your headlight while the bike is running. See if the idle fixes itself immediately when the headlight is unplugged. That's what mine did.

October 28th, 2012, 04:03 PM	#34
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I'll make sure to do that. What are you thinking though? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 04:08 PM	#35
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I think the stator on pre-gen's put out less power than the stator on the newgens. When we have two O2 sensors, an ECU, a headlight, and all the normal electronics running, we draw more power than we make at idle, making the efi kit get less power than it wants, and it runs funny because of it. When I switched to a 35W HID headlight (saving 20W of power over a 55W Halogen), my idling got better. Now I only get some very small oscillations, and only as the bike is warming up to full operating temp as I ride. They're only occasional oscillations that are >100 rpm.

October 28th, 2012, 04:12 PM	#36
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	That sounds almost exactly like what's happening to me. I always have wondered why I never have fluctuations during riding, only during idle at red lights. Is there any way around switching to a HID? __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM	#37
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	That's also part of why I'm going to get off of eco mode and onto rich mode; I can ditch the O2 sensors and lower power usage a little. There's not a whole lot of places to cut power. My other thought was to get the biggest honkin battery that I could fit in the battery box, but that would just make it take longer to start oscillations, not get rid of them.

October 28th, 2012, 04:37 PM	#38
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I'll make sure to try that out. I"m wondering what else could possibly be causing my bike to not start in warm/hot weather after being run for a while. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 05:16 PM	#39
lolibater ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Napa, CA Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R, 2011 Sprint GT Posts: A lot.	I wonder if any of this is related to valve clearance. I still have not had them professionally done, and my confidence in my ability might be misplaced. Every time this issue occurs, I go to start the bike after a short period of not riding. It usually starts up but the idle is super low, until it dies. After that it will crank and crank until you give it about 2 hours time. Cold starts are fine. __________________________________________________ "The enemy is fear. We think it is hate, but it is fear." - Gandhi

October 28th, 2012, 05:22 PM	#40
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Like we said at the side of the road, if you need anyone to kick it over and light it on fire, we're here for you. (the 300's are calling you! ) __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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