Clipons for lowering front forks instead of risers

[gptoyz]

My gf just picked up a 13 black 300r (her first bike)

She's really short so I was at first going to consider getting the roaring toys lowering kit for her.

However, her eventual goal is to join my friends and I on the race track. The immediate goal is to lower the bike (but maintain geometry) so that she can get comfortable riding the bike and the controls.

The roaring toyz kit looks great but I figured instead of wasting money on handlebar risers, why not just switch her over to clipons now since I have the expertise of setting them up anyway! Once she gets comfortable just getting one toe down to catch her we would remove the roaring toyz components anyway for optimal stock geometry

Thoughts on this?

[choneofakind]

My thoughts are, if she's trying to get to track time, why even worry about lowering it? I guess how short are we talking?

[adouglas]

As a short guy (not that short, but short enough to have to think about stuff like this), what's appropriate for the track just doesn't work that well on the street.

At the track you can get away with a bike that's far too tall because you're never going to run into the things that you will on the street, all of which require firm footing.

Such as:

- Crowned roads
- Broken pavement
- Gravel/sand
- Inclines that may require you to walk the bike while seated
- Unexpectedly needing to put a foot down in stop-and-go traffic

Flat-footing certainly isn't necessary, but being able to get a foot solidly down on one side, with at least a toe on the other, makes a bike a whole lot easier to live with on a daily basis. CAN you ride a bike so tall that your feet dangle? Sure. People do it. That doesn't make it fun.

Picture this: You're a petite girl and the bike is so tall that to get one foot down you have to slide halfway out of the seat, leaving your other foot five inches off the ground. Now come to a stop. Exactly how do you get the kickstand down to dismount? Think that through for a moment. Possible but very awkward.

To the OP: The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is that you'll have to lower at least far enough for the clip-on clamps to get a solid purchase on the fork tubes.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by adouglas

As a short guy (not that short, but short enough to have to think about stuff like this), what's appropriate for the track just doesn't work that well on the street.

At the track you can get away with a bike that's far too tall because you're never going to run into the things that you will on the street, all of which require firm footing.

Such as:

- Crowned roads
- Broken pavement
- Gravel/sand
- Inclines that may require you to walk the bike while seated
- Unexpectedly needing to put a foot down in stop-and-go traffic

Flat-footing certainly isn't necessary, but being able to get a foot solidly down on one side, with at least a toe on the other, makes a bike a whole lot easier to live with on a daily basis. CAN you ride a bike so tall that your feet dangle? Sure. People do it. That doesn't make it fun.

Picture this: You're a petite girl and the bike is so tall that to get one foot down you have to slide halfway out of the seat, leaving your other foot five inches off the ground. Now come to a stop. Exactly how do you get the kickstand down to dismount? Think that through for a moment. Possible but very awkward.

To the OP: The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is that you'll have to lower at least far enough for the clip-on clamps to get a solid purchase on the fork tubes.

Ok

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by adouglas

As a short guy (not that short, but short enough to have to think about stuff like this), what's appropriate for the track just doesn't work that well on the street.

At the track you can get away with a bike that's far too tall because you're never going to run into the things that you will on the street, all of which require firm footing.

Such as:

- Crowned roads
- Broken pavement
- Gravel/sand
- Inclines that may require you to walk the bike while seated
- Unexpectedly needing to put a foot down in stop-and-go traffic

Flat-footing certainly isn't necessary, but being able to get a foot solidly down on one side, with at least a toe on the other, makes a bike a whole lot easier to live with on a daily basis. CAN you ride a bike so tall that your feet dangle? Sure. People do it. That doesn't make it fun.

Picture this: You're a petite girl and the bike is so tall that to get one foot down you have to slide halfway out of the seat, leaving your other foot five inches off the ground. Now come to a stop. Exactly how do you get the kickstand down to dismount? Think that through for a moment. Possible but very awkward.

To the OP: The only thing I can think of that might be an issue is that you'll have to lower at least far enough for the clip-on clamps to get a solid purchase on the fork tubes.

the driven and woodcraft kits look like they grab the forks from below the triple clamp

I figured this accomplishes 2 things:
#1 - instead of a static 1" drop with the roaring toyz spacers, I can drop as much or as little as I want to properly match the rear

#2 - ergonomics can be adjusted in the future to optimize leverage on the track (future proof)

I just wanted to see if anyone had considered going with a clip on conversion instead of a spacer to achieve the same result

[ForceofWill]

I have the Driven clip ons that you're talking about and with the forks set at stock height, they barely clear the fairings at full lock. If you wanted to lower them more down the forks I think you'd start hitting stuff.

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

I have the Driven clip ons that you're talking about and with the forks set at stock height, they barely clear the fairings at full lock. If you wanted to lower them more down the forks I think you'd start hitting stuff.

You don't lower them down the fork tubes, you slide the fork tubes up. The clipons stay just below the top clamp.

This will have the effect of lowering the nose relative to the ground, not changing the distance of the clip ons to the fairings

[Ninjinsky]

If this is the machine for her to learn on I certainly would not fit clip-ons at this stage. All the racing talk is way premature.
Master machine control and street traffic
If height really is an issue I would have gone for an el250 to start on but the purchase is made now
Lets start upright and in control. and look at ways to lower the seat.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by gptoyz

You don't lower them down the fork tubes, you slide the fork tubes up. The clipons stay just below the top clamp.

This will have the effect of lowering the nose relative to the ground, not changing the distance of the clip ons to the fairings

Ya my bad, I should have read better. Thought you wanted to change the riding position more not the height.

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by Ninjinsky

If this is the machine for her to learn on I certainly would not fit clip-ons at this stage. All the racing talk is way premature.
Master machine control and street traffic
If height really is an issue I would have gone for an el250 to start on but the purchase is made now
Lets start upright and in control. and look at ways to lower the seat.

Ok well I was discussing the philosophy and I didn't mention anything about racing, I said track riding. Also, IMHO street riding creates bad habits that need to be broken when transitioning to the track, so a ninja 300 is perfectly suitable beginner bike and getting her off the street and on to the track the minute she becomes comfortable with the controls as second nature will accelerate her learning.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by gptoyz

Ok well I was discussing the philosophy and I didn't mention anything about racing, I said track riding. Also, IMHO street riding creates bad habits that need to be broken when transitioning to the track, so a ninja 300 is perfectly suitable beginner bike and getting her off the street and on to the track the minute she becomes comfortable with the controls as second nature will accelerate her learning.

I predict Kleenex, (and not 'happy' Kleenex)

[LittleRedNinjette]

not sure if this is helpful but i had the lowering blocks on my 250 with the forks all the way down. When i put the clip-ons on i just put them in place of the blocks. You can still adjust the ti the position you want but the bike is still level.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

Ok

I know you're checking yourself out! quit looking in the mirror, sicko

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

not sure if this is helpful but i had the lowering blocks on my 250 with the forks all the way down. When i put the clip-ons on i just put them in place of the blocks. You can still adjust the ti the position you want but the bike is still level.

Thanks for the feedback

Aren't the clips suppose to be mounted below the top clamp like a modern super sport?

[LittleRedNinjette]

Yes but my bike was lowered, couldn't move the forks back up because then the bike would have been level. And there was not enough room to put it below so we put them in place of the lowering blocks I had on the front.

[gptoyz]

Wait sliding up the forks does not change the amount of space between the top clamp and the bodywork, that distance is maintained constant by the relationship between the frame, steering stem, lower tree and top tree...it's static

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by gptoyz

Wait sliding up the forks does not change the amount of space between the top clamp and the bodywork, that distance is maintained constant by the relationship between the frame, steering stem, lower tree and top tree...it's static

What she's saying is that clip ons will not clear putting them under the triple on our bikes unless you have ones with risers like mine. So if you're lowering the front you can use regular ones like her picture.

If you want to keep stock height like myself, you have to use the ones with risers.

[LittleRedNinjette]

I wasn't explaining it correctly.

[garth285]

Anyone run these cheapo's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251564849787...84.m1423.l2649

[gptoyz]

Originally Posted by garth285

Anyone run these cheapo's?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251564849787...84.m1423.l2649

since it is machined out of billet 7075 t6 aluminum it SHOULD be strong enough

the thing that I would replace is the hardware, usually chinese hardware is where stuff is really suspect. I would probably replace it with a nice grade 8 fastener.

in terms of the clip on itself, the fact that these are not raised clip ons like the ninja specific woodcraft, driven or sato racing clip ons, this will probably not clear stock plastics, if you are mounting them below the top clamp - for a race bike that you may be looking for a particular fitment it may be a better fit.

if you are mounting above the top clamp, you may not have enough fork to grab

I wonder if the bars are hollow and what material it's made out of of and how the tubes are made.