Serious Lean Angle - Page 10

csmith12 · June 24th, 2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwDang

hard to hang off at 4'10"

Shouldn't be... your motogp sized!

Sirref · June 27th, 2015, 07:55 AM

Dragging knee is overrated, at 4'10" you'll drag when you go warpspeed and that's when you actually need to to know that you're that far down

though it would be nice to have a knee dragging pic, or an elbow dragging pic...someday

CC Cowboy · June 27th, 2015, 11:52 AM

Sometimes, in the morning, I have dragging breath.

snot · June 30th, 2015, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwDang

hard to hang off at 4'10"

I only have 2 inches on you. I try to get my body over and improve my position, vs trying to drag knee. For us as we improve our knees will get closer. keep up the good work.

alex.s · July 2nd, 2015, 09:04 AM

Misti · July 2nd, 2015, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

Totally.

Misti · July 27th, 2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

Dragging knee is overrated, at 4'10" you'll drag when you go warpspeed and that's when you actually need to to know that you're that far down

though it would be nice to have a knee dragging pic, or an elbow dragging pic...someday

yes

People think that it is ONLY body position that effects whether or not you get your knee down, but what other skill would help or hinder your ability to get your knee on the deck?

Sirref · July 27th, 2015, 01:50 PM

All of the skills involved with cornering quickly has an effect on whether or not you'll be low enough to drag.

vision and reference points are the most important to me here since that's the only way you'll have the confidence to turn in sharply enough to drag in most corners as well as to set up your exit to do the same in the next corner.

Turn in speed is important to, while not every corner is a quick turn every corner has a turn in speed that works well with it and for quite a few being able to tip the bike from 10-15 degrees of lean to 40-45 degrees very quickly makes a difference.

I worked on both of those along with my usual braking drills at nccar last weekend and dropped about 10 seconds (more than that if you go off of the last time I raced there) off my time across two days of racing. 6 seconds from the final practice before race 1 on saturday and the remaining 4 seconds across the endurance race on sunday.

I also destroyed a set of pucks unintentionally...they're so expensive but I had to know how close I was at some points since I was trying to avoid dragging pegs (still dragging them with rearsets)

There is one other thing that comes to mind that affects it. Mental confidence, it can be a fragile thing in this sport but when it's there everything else seems to fall into place.

adouglas · July 27th, 2015, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misti

yes

People think that it is ONLY body position that effects whether or not you get your knee down, but what other skill would help or hinder your ability to get your knee on the deck?

Not so sure this is a skill, but...

Accurately assessing how fast you can get through a corner. My last couple of track days, the Monday morning quarterbacking retrospective leaves me feeling as if I could have gone faster, been harder on the brakes and more aggressive with the throttle.

But on the actual day, that's not what it feels like, for some reason.

I'm amazed that I haven't touched down yet. Photos show that I've got a long way to go, but my BP this year vs. last year is much better.

I'm still exploring, working on the basics and trying to get smoother. Speed will come....

Sirref · July 27th, 2015, 02:13 PM

^ I feel like that's the wrong mentality

harder on the brakes and more aggressive with the throttle would only make it more difficult for you to judge corner speed unless you've already judged it on previous laps and are setting yourself at the speed you want to go.

There may be other approaches that work just as well, I just feel that adding more speed to the equation just makes things more difficult at first. I always add speed in last and it's worked well for me so far

keebler · July 27th, 2015, 08:38 PM

track day at the kart track

burningscooter · July 28th, 2015, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

There is one other thing that comes to mind that affects it. Mental confidence, it can be a fragile thing in this sport but when it's there everything else seems to fall into place.

Well said, Ben. This was essentially the gist of what I was saying on Saturday in regards to going faster. I didn't say it as eloquently, and was much more crass.

adouglas · July 28th, 2015, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

^ I feel like that's the wrong mentality

harder on the brakes and more aggressive with the throttle would only make it more difficult for you to judge corner speed unless you've already judged it on previous laps and are setting yourself at the speed you want to go.

There may be other approaches that work just as well, I just feel that adding more speed to the equation just makes things more difficult at first. I always add speed in last and it's worked well for me so far

I hear ya.

Allow me to rephrase... after the fact, I sometimes feel that I've been pussyfooting. Braking too early, not carrying as much speed as I could through the corner, not getting on the gas as much as I could, etc. I'm not talking about being harsh or jerky, but simply turning up the dials to where they ought to be.

I'm a cautious rider by nature, preferring to work on the technique and let the speed take care of itself. I think that's good, but it does have a downside. The default is to go in slow -- sometimes, too slow.

You know those times on the street when you're approaching that one epic corner you've been looking forward to the whole ride? And when you get there, a landscaping truck is in front of you and you have to slow way down. The feeling is "man, that could have been SO much better."

You encounter the same kind of thing during the first follow-the-leader session of a track day. Sure you're learning the line, but satisfying cornering isn't happening at that pace.

I'm not saying I slow down that much, but I feel there's extra potential in me - and most definitely the bike - than I'm leaving on the table.

Sirref · July 28th, 2015, 06:25 AM

@burningscooter yeah that helped a bit, it largely feels that everything worked out well for me and I even pulled off what coach paul was doing in T11 on a borrowed 300, dragging peg/foot/side of boot/knee and almost elbow. It felt badass to go through the corner that fast to the point where I was even pointing my head straight at the ground to get it lower to try to keep the bike more upright knowing I had time before I had to look up to make sure I stayed on track without going too wide...I wish terry had gotten a pic of that

@adouglas have you tried no-braking drills? that may help with your slowing too much going into the corner issue, it certainly helped me with the same issue when I was coming off of a crash

you would have a better idea than me what you need to do to improve though so I trust your judgement, I've felt that dissatisfaction from not going as fast as I've wanted to and known to be possible

sharky nrk · July 28th, 2015, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keebler

track day at the kart track

what kart track?

keebler · July 28th, 2015, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

what kart track?

IMI Motorsports in erie colorado. the kart track is actually really good size and is 1 mile long with about 9 turns. they also have a short oval dirt track for flat track and a couple motocross tracks. only 40 dollars a day to ride on the kart track and 15 a day for the dirt riding.

keebler · July 28th, 2015, 07:54 AM

@Sirref and @adouglas how about less fancy talk about going fast/lean angle and more pictures of you actually doing it!!!!!!

adouglas · July 28th, 2015, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keebler

@Sirref and @adouglas how about less fancy talk about going fast/lean angle and more pictures of you actually doing it!!!!!!

Ask and....

sharky nrk · July 28th, 2015, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keebler

IMI Motorsports in erie colorado. the kart track is actually really good size and is 1 mile long with about 9 turns. they also have a short oval dirt track for flat track and a couple motocross tracks. only 40 dollars a day to ride on the kart track and 15 a day for the dirt riding.

see now that right there is FREAKING AWESOME

Sirref · July 29th, 2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keebler

@Sirref and @adouglas how about less fancy talk about going fast/lean angle and more pictures of you actually doing it!!!!!!

I'm the bike in front, happy?

yes we were both dragging knee just after that when the big bend tightens, next day I was dragging through the whole thing but I have no pics of that (and yes I'm still slow)

keebler · July 29th, 2015, 07:48 PM

cool picture, those 300s and that track look nice. have you turned it into a racer or are you keeping it street legal?

Sirref · July 29th, 2015, 07:53 PM

I'm keeping it street legal but I am racing it

it's a tricky fine line that's hard to stick with, especially if I run ccs on it next season...granted the series I'm in now is more competitive than ccs for the 300 class so I may not but I want to

Misti · July 30th, 2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirref

All of the skills involved with cornering quickly has an effect on whether or not you'll be low enough to drag.

vision and reference points are the most important to me here since that's the only way you'll have the confidence to turn in sharply enough to drag in most corners as well as to set up your exit to do the same in the next corner.

Turn in speed is important to, while not every corner is a quick turn every corner has a turn in speed that works well with it and for quite a few being able to tip the bike from 10-15 degrees of lean to 40-45 degrees very quickly makes a difference.

Bingo. Vision and RP's are necessary to give you the confidence to turn the bike quickly and getting the bike turned quickly helps get your knee on the deck.

If you know for certain where you want to be mid corner and are looking at that spot BEFORE you actually turn the bike, then you have a better gauge of how hard you have to press the bar in order to actually get there.

A rider who is turning their bike quickly has a better chance of getting their knee down then a rider who is lazily steering into the turn. What are the other benefits of getting the bike turned as quickly as possible?

Sirref · July 30th, 2015, 02:25 PM

the single biggest benefit of turning in quickly is the ability to get back on the power earlier as it shortens the corner

other benefits are more vision in blind corners on the street (when combined with a natural late apex approach as well as greatly improved steering confidence when riding at lower speeds after practicing the technique at track since being able to do it effectively provides the rider with more control over the bike

gogoKawi · July 31st, 2015, 09:55 PM

Every time I look at this picture, it scares me a bit. Part of me wishes I really knew how far I lean over. Then again, if I did know, I probably wouldn't be leaning that far.

Sirref · August 1st, 2015, 05:43 AM

@gogoKawi now that you're eligible to race again when are you going to take on sheldon gardner, the guy is silly fast on his 300

britx303 · August 1st, 2015, 07:13 AM

In some of my fastest races on Summit main, I barely ever touched my knee,and thats running 1:25s lap times. If I go slower I grind my pucks all day long. Lots of the super-fast guys say the same thing. Weird

sharky nrk · August 3rd, 2015, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britx303

In some of my fastest races on Summit main, I barely ever touched my knee,and thats running 1:25s lap times. If I go slower I grind my pucks all day long. Lots of the super-fast guys say the same thing. Weird

on some fast corners, you can feel your knee actually slowing you down if you leave it on the deck ...... N250 problems ..... lol

Sirref · August 4th, 2015, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

Every time I look at this picture, it scares me a bit. Part of me wishes I really knew how far I lean over. Then again, if I did know, I probably wouldn't be leaning that far.

what terrifies me is that I know that I lean at least this much at max lean since I hit my exhaust (and lower fairing) on curbing of the same height as that

Supernam · August 5th, 2015, 05:19 PM

My 2nd trackday ever and first with the N300.

keebler · August 6th, 2015, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supernam

My 2nd trackday ever and first with the N300.

cool picture. not sure i would call that "series lean angle" though haha. what track is that?

howlinhoss · August 7th, 2015, 05:00 PM

csmith12 · August 7th, 2015, 07:06 PM

Put in werk Nam & Jose!

Floki · August 10th, 2015, 08:44 AM

Grabbed these nice stills in frame by frame from riding the kart track yesterday

I tried the serious lean angle, and the pegs tried to throw me off

Supernam · August 19th, 2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keebler

cool picture. not sure i would call that "series lean angle" though haha. what track is that?

For me it is!

The track is Shannonville near Toronto, Canada. Pucks have some slight scratches on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Put in werk Nam & Jose!

I've never been on a sportsbike before so this is all new to me. I am working on it by taking courses at the FAST Riding School. Progress will come.

Braden07 · August 19th, 2015, 03:20 PM

these are from last year, but are half decent.. tying to find some from this season

Braden07 · August 19th, 2015, 03:29 PM

Found one.. not necessarily the most lean angle but an absolute bitchin' shot.. shows pretty good BP imo...

Ducati999 · March 8th, 2016, 01:26 PM

I have a goal to get some good pic's of myself into this thread for 2016!

mattv · March 9th, 2016, 12:25 PM

tgold · March 10th, 2016, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati999

I have a goal to get some good pic's of myself into this thread for 2016!

I too have a goal for 2016:

Win races and show pics of my crappy body position and lack of lean angle

June 27th, 2015, 07:55 AM	#362
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	Dragging knee is overrated, at 4'10" you'll drag when you go warpspeed and that's when you actually need to to know that you're that far down though it would be nice to have a knee dragging pic, or an elbow dragging pic...someday __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

June 27th, 2015, 11:52 AM	#363
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	Sometimes, in the morning, I have dragging breath. __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

July 2nd, 2015, 09:04 AM	#365
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	__________________________________________________
	5 out of 5 members found this post helpful.

July 27th, 2015, 01:50 PM	#368
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	All of the skills involved with cornering quickly has an effect on whether or not you'll be low enough to drag. vision and reference points are the most important to me here since that's the only way you'll have the confidence to turn in sharply enough to drag in most corners as well as to set up your exit to do the same in the next corner. Turn in speed is important to, while not every corner is a quick turn every corner has a turn in speed that works well with it and for quite a few being able to tip the bike from 10-15 degrees of lean to 40-45 degrees very quickly makes a difference. I worked on both of those along with my usual braking drills at nccar last weekend and dropped about 10 seconds (more than that if you go off of the last time I raced there) off my time across two days of racing. 6 seconds from the final practice before race 1 on saturday and the remaining 4 seconds across the endurance race on sunday. I also destroyed a set of pucks unintentionally...they're so expensive but I had to know how close I was at some points since I was trying to avoid dragging pegs (still dragging them with rearsets) There is one other thing that comes to mind that affects it. Mental confidence, it can be a fragile thing in this sport but when it's there everything else seems to fall into place. __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

July 27th, 2015, 02:13 PM	#370
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	^ I feel like that's the wrong mentality harder on the brakes and more aggressive with the throttle would only make it more difficult for you to judge corner speed unless you've already judged it on previous laps and are setting yourself at the speed you want to go. There may be other approaches that work just as well, I just feel that adding more speed to the equation just makes things more difficult at first. I always add speed in last and it's worked well for me so far __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

July 28th, 2015, 06:25 AM	#374
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	@burningscooter yeah that helped a bit, it largely feels that everything worked out well for me and I even pulled off what coach paul was doing in T11 on a borrowed 300, dragging peg/foot/side of boot/knee and almost elbow. It felt badass to go through the corner that fast to the point where I was even pointing my head straight at the ground to get it lower to try to keep the bike more upright knowing I had time before I had to look up to make sure I stayed on track without going too wide...I wish terry had gotten a pic of that @adouglas have you tried no-braking drills? that may help with your slowing too much going into the corner issue, it certainly helped me with the same issue when I was coming off of a crash you would have a better idea than me what you need to do to improve though so I trust your judgement, I've felt that dissatisfaction from not going as fast as I've wanted to and known to be possible __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

July 28th, 2015, 07:54 AM	#377
keebler ninjette.org member Name: keebler Location: usa Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r race bike, ninja 300, rmz 250 flat tracker, xr100 pit bike Posts: 28	@Sirref and @adouglas how about less fancy talk about going fast/lean angle and more pictures of you actually doing it!!!!!!

July 29th, 2015, 07:48 PM	#381
keebler ninjette.org member Name: keebler Location: usa Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r race bike, ninja 300, rmz 250 flat tracker, xr100 pit bike Posts: 28	cool picture, those 300s and that track look nice. have you turned it into a racer or are you keeping it street legal?

July 29th, 2015, 07:53 PM	#382
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	I'm keeping it street legal but I am racing it it's a tricky fine line that's hard to stick with, especially if I run ccs on it next season...granted the series I'm in now is more competitive than ccs for the 300 class so I may not but I want to __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

July 30th, 2015, 02:25 PM	#384
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	the single biggest benefit of turning in quickly is the ability to get back on the power earlier as it shortens the corner other benefits are more vision in blind corners on the street (when combined with a natural late apex approach as well as greatly improved steering confidence when riding at lower speeds after practicing the technique at track since being able to do it effectively provides the rider with more control over the bike __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

August 1st, 2015, 05:43 AM	#386
Sirref Private Joker Name: Ben Location: Towson, MD Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '14	@gogoKawi now that you're eligible to race again when are you going to take on sheldon gardner, the guy is silly fast on his 300 __________________________________________________ I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see?

August 1st, 2015, 07:13 AM	#387
britx303 ninjette.org member Name: AJK Location: Maryland Join Date: Jul 2015 Motorcycle(s): TOOOOOO MANY!! Posts: 87	In some of my fastest races on Summit main, I barely ever touched my knee,and thats running 1:25s lap times. If I go slower I grind my pucks all day long. Lots of the super-fast guys say the same thing. Weird

August 7th, 2015, 05:00 PM	#392
howlinhoss ninjette.org member Name: Jose Location: Maryland Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 93
	2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.

August 7th, 2015, 07:06 PM	#393
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Put in werk Nam & Jose! __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

August 10th, 2015, 08:44 AM	#394
Floki Motorcycle Nurse? Name: Jacques Location: Gulf Coast Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R, 1998 Ducati 748L #77/100 Posts: 606	Grabbed these nice stills in frame by frame from riding the kart track yesterday I tried the serious lean angle, and the pegs tried to throw me off
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

August 19th, 2015, 03:20 PM	#396
Braden07 Wannabe racer Name: Brady Location: SLC, UT Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2010 ninja 250 race prepped, 2009 Zx6R Posts: 96	these are from last year, but are half decent.. tying to find some from this season
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

August 19th, 2015, 03:29 PM	#397
Braden07 Wannabe racer Name: Brady Location: SLC, UT Join Date: Aug 2014 Motorcycle(s): 2010 ninja 250 race prepped, 2009 Zx6R Posts: 96	Found one.. not necessarily the most lean angle but an absolute bitchin' shot.. shows pretty good BP imo...
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

March 8th, 2016, 01:26 PM	#398
Ducati999 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ant Location: Wooster Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 999 2012 Ninja 250r Ducati748 Yellow finally running 2003 SV650 S (SOLD) Posts: A lot.	I have a goal to get some good pic's of myself into this thread for 2016!
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

March 9th, 2016, 12:25 PM	#399
mattv ninjette.org newbie Name: matt Location: bay area, ca Join Date: Dec 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300, R6, monster 695 Posts: 5

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