:)

[motodancer]

Hey all.
I've been riding for about a month (parking lots only)
and I recently took/passed the MSF course so just waiting for my license
I've been using my boyfriend's Ninja 250, but I want more of a cruiser bike, small & lightweight, since I'm short & a weakling

[alex.s]

[csmith12]

Welcome Sarah!

You have soooooo much to choose from, I kinda envy you.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by motodancer

I want more of a cruiser bike

No you don't. You just don't realize that yet!
Now; you may want more of a Motard style but I promise: you want great brakes, better handling and a lighter bike than a cruiser. All in the name of safety.

That is written in good natured banter but there is more than a grain of truth to it.

Welcome to the forum. There are lots of great people here with solid advice so post up any questions or concerns or how to fix things you don't like perhaps on your boyfriends bike!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

No you don't. You just don't realize that yet!
Now; you may want more of a Motard style but I promise: you want great brakes, better handling and a lighter bike than a cruiser. All in the name of safety.

That is written in good natured banter but there is more than a grain of truth to it.

Welcome to the forum. There are lots of great people here with solid advice so post up any questions or concerns or how to fix things you don't like perhaps on your boyfriends bike!

there are some good cruisers. they just cost 20 grand.

[motodancer]

Really? They are that expensive?

The reason I don't like my bf's bike is because I'm too short for it. I'm on my toes when I'm stopped because I can't reach the ground, and he said the seat can't go any lower. Since I can't touch the ground, I'm afraid to leave the parking lot with it.
I rode a Honda Rebel during the MSF course and I just loved it because my feet were flat on the ground and I was sitting more upright, hence why I want a cruiser style bike I was so confident on that bike.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Really? They are that expensive?

The reason I don't like my bf's bike is because I'm too short for it. I'm on my toes when I'm stopped because I can't reach the ground, and he said the seat can't go any lower. Since I can't touch the ground, I'm afraid to leave the parking lot with it.
I rode a Honda Rebel during the MSF course and I just loved it because my feet were flat on the ground and I was sitting more upright, hence why I want a cruiser style bike I was so confident on that bike.

If you feel better on the bike you rode then there's your answer, certainly for now. You are here on a sport bike forum so there is some bias!
There are a few different styles of cruiser too and a big Honda Gold Wing is a massive touring cruiser with exceptional safety. But; generally a cruiser is more along the lines of a Harley or Harley wannabe and they are famous for under performing brakes etc.
Sport bikes are sort of like sport cars: usually excellent handling & brakes which can save you if the safety margins are needed. Of course; if you ride a sports bike like an asshat on the street: you've probably diminished any increase in safety margins to zero or worse!
Good luck & best wishes for your new adventures! Motorcycling is amazing and addictive. Reasonably safe too if you get the training & seat time to develop your skills, ride within your limits and keep in mind there is a time & a place for testing those limits.

P.s.: there are things you can do and techniques to overcome your vertical challenges with the Ninja. There's lots of threads here to hunt for that deal with that very issue.

[motodancer]

Oh I definitely do not want a Harley. My bf hates them lol
He is trying pass off the Ninja onto me so he can get a faster sportsbike.
If there's a way to lower it, I wouldn't mind keeping it!
I was just more confident on the Rebel because it fit me and my short legs

[snot]

Welcome

[RacinNinja]

Then you need a Rebel or a Hyosung GV250 or the Yamaha XV250. Ride what you're comfortable with. Sell the Ninja and get something else!

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Oh I definitely do not want a Harley. My bf hates them lol
He is trying pass off the Ninja onto me so he can get a faster sportsbike.
If there's a way to lower it, I wouldn't mind keeping it!
I was just more confident on the Rebel because it fit me and my short legs

I'm 6'5" so I'm not the well of knowledge for short riders but many here are. Let's see if our Ginseng Master @csmith12 can drop a few names and get you pointed in the right direction though he himself is really the master of the horizontal movements of motorcycles but he knows everybody!

[csmith12]

Being able to touch on both sides adds a lot to the beginning rider. There are at least 5-8 things you can do to address flatfooting it to gain you confidence while learning the basics. Here is the short list;

1. Shave seat
2. Thinner seat
3. Adjust seat angle
4. Thick sole boots
5. Taller heeled boots
6. Lowering links (make sure to balance the bike by addressing front as well)
7. Different size tires (taller vs shorter)
8. Gear that doesn't limit your range of motion
9. Stretching to ensure complete range of motion

ect... ect...

Lastly, we have @snot and few other members of shorter stature that have faired well on our little ninjas.

[snot]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Hey all.
I've been riding for about a month (parking lots only)
and I recently took/passed the MSF course so just waiting for my license
I've been using my boyfriend's Ninja 250, but I want more of a cruiser bike, small & lightweight, since I'm short & a weakling

Many many things you can try.

Cheapest: buy 2 sets of gel insoles 1 full and 1 heel only. Stack them inside the boot for an extra 1/2" in reach. They also make an insole for this now.
Check out gearchic she has a ton of info and reviews for short ladies (http://www.gearchic.com/reviews/boot...tigo-lei-boots).

I loved the 250 the cruiser was a little to heavy for me. The 250 and 300 are a lot lighter.

[motodancer]

Guys, please explain as I am new to this; how would insoles or having a heeled boot help? I'm literally on my toes - the balls of my feet don't even touch the ground. So even with insoles/heels, wouldn't they still be off the ground? Very confused here!!

Also, what would be better: shaving the seat or lowering links? Are they both safe to do?

[SLOWn60]

[QUOTE=motodancer;1107035
Also, what would be better: shaving the seat or lowering links? Are they both safe to do?[/QUOTE]

Both are safe. You can do both. And for a relatively small investment.

[wendyjboss]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Hey all.
I've been riding for about a month (parking lots only)
and I recently took/passed the MSF course so just waiting for my license
I've been using my boyfriend's Ninja 250, but I want more of a cruiser bike, small & lightweight, since I'm short & a weakling

Riding a moto will take care of that weakling part. Also, much of the difficulty with the weight of a moto. has to do with moving it around for parking or general maneuvering in tight spots like your basement or garage or your driveway, the parking lot spot. Experience helps a lot in that -- you sort of learn how to move the thing efficiently because the ninja is not a heavy bike. If you are able to fit it, you will find a nimble easy rider. Unfortunately I cannot help you on that fitting part.

Welcome.

[snot]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Guys, please explain as I am new to this; how would insoles or having a heeled boot help? I'm literally on my toes - the balls of my feet don't even touch the ground. So even with insoles/heels, wouldn't they still be off the ground? Very confused here!!

Also, what would be better: shaving the seat or lowering links? Are they both safe to do?

Try it.
I use the insoles, otherwise I can not touch at all. With the insoles I can tippy toe the bike, it works.
I lowered the 250 and 300 until I got use to the weight of the bike. I then brought it back to stock height and just get over to one side to touch the ground. Look at the link I provided it is explained in the blog by gear chic in the links with boots.

I can post pics later if you want to see the difference. Just let me know.

[SLOWn60]

A consideration, Sarah (I've seen it happen before!);
Your partner will have his sport bike and wanting to hang with the Power Ranger leathers crowd and you'll be on your cruiser wanting to hang with the Pirates! Never the two to meet! Not that your choice/preference should come second!!! Just that there may be unintended consequences! Might want to see how he looks in chaps!

[motodancer]

1. Ok, maybe it's more of the seat height than the weight

2. I will try the insoles. There IS room in my boots!

3. I probably will look pretty silly riding a cruiser in my full gear!!

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by motodancer

3. I probably will look pretty silly riding a cruiser in my full gear!!

No.... you won't, I promise.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by motodancer

I probably will look pretty silly riding a cruiser in my full gear!!

Not to anyone that really understands motorcycling.

[Snake]

Hello and welcome!

[adouglas]

Welcome!

I'm short (for a guy) at a tick under 5'7" so I am familiar with being height-challenged. I'm on tiptoes on my track bike (a Yamaha R6).

I have a 30" inseam. My street bike (a GSX-R750) has a 31.9" seat height. My track bike has a 33.5" seat height, and the seat is wider on top of that.

As a short guy, here's my take on the issue of height:
1) People who are tall enough for it not to be a problem don't get it. It is an issue for some people. I would invite the tall folks to pad their seat with a phone book/beach towel/whatever so they can't reach the ground, and live with the bike for a week. Putting your foot down and landing on a bit of gravel is a bad thing if you're precariously balanced. So take the advice from taller folks with a healthy dose of salt.

2) On a street bike, it's good to be able to get at least one foot solidly on the ground without too much difficulty, because of the realities of the street... having to back up sometimes, loose surfaces, crowned roads, etc. On a track bike, where the surface is always level and clean, it's far less of an issue.

So, in an attempt to give you useful guidance:

First off, you do get more comfortable not putting both feet fully down with experience. I know that doesn't help now, but it will get better. Stick with it before you go ripping stuff apart.

Second, lowering should be your last resort. If you lower the front and back of the bike equally you'll retain its handling characteristics, but you'll sacrifice ground clearance in turns. Less lean angle before you start scraping hard parts, which can be a real safety issue as you start riding faster. You'll also need to shorten the side stand, or get an aftermarket one. Do everything else first.

Here are some other things you can do to help that are less drastic:

- Slide as far forward in the seat as you can when you stop. The seat is narrower up near the tank so you can get your leg more vertical. (Next time you're at a bike shop go take a look at the recent GSX-Rs... Suzuki has done a great job of narrowing the seat near the tank.)

- Use a little body english. Scootch you butt over to one side a bit to get that leg down. People who ride motards and ADV bikes, which have super-tall seats, do this all the time. It's a bit awkward at first not getting both feet down, but you can do it with a little practice. Getting a good sense of the bike's balance point helps here. Again, it all comes with experience.

- You may notice that the reason you can't put your leg straight down is that your footpegs are in the way. You can move them... get a pair of "rearset adjusters" (also called rearset brackets). These reposition the pegs up and back, giving your leg a straight shot down to the ground. or, just get a set of actual rearsets. When I put rearset adjusters on my Ninjette I was surprised at how much easier it was to manage the bike at a stop. This is a great option, because it leaves your bike at its stock height yet effectively shortens the reach to the ground. To see if it'd work for you, just unbolt your rearsets (i.e. pegs), move them out of the way and get on the bike.

Here's the point of moving the pegs: seat height is only part of the equation. What matters just as much is "stopover height." That takes into account the width of the bike, not just the height.

Think about it a sec... a seat or bike configuration that forces you to spread your legs wide to reach the ground vs. one that is narrow and lets you put your foot straight down seems taller.


- Shaving the seat... Used seats are easy to find on eBay. Get one so you don't mangle your one and only seat, pull the cover off, pull the foam off and carve away the UNDERSIDE of the foam. That leaves the top nice and smooth. You may also be able to narrow the seat by cutting a bit of the platform (not sure, I no longer have the Ninjette and never needed to alter the seat). I did this with my R6 seat to narrow it. The widest part of that bike is now the subframe.

Hope this helps!!!!

[motodancer]

^ Yes, thank you! That helps a lot! I will definitely try to shave the seat (a different/used one!) vs lowering the whole bike. I was told I lean a lot in turns (from MSF instructor) and I need to slow down before turning because I was coming really close to scraping the pegs of the Honda Rebel on the ground!

Not sure if this would help, but I am 5'4" with a 27ish inch inseam (I juuuust measured). I know I have short legs.
And the reason I'm hesitant about leaning to one side when stopping is because the bike is heavy and I'll drop it if it's leaned to one side without the kickstand down. I did that twice and I have a bruise in the exact same spot on the same leg lol

Thanks everyone You are all so friendly.
I will try the insoles and shaving the seat.
Or maybe I'll just tell my bf to suck it & keep the Ninja and I'LL buy a new bike

PS: I definitely plan on wearing ATGATT. I bought full gear just to be a passenger, before I decided to try riding myself So don't worry

[allanoue]

Sarah

[CaliGrrl]

Welcome, from another new rider with a bit of a height-challenge!

Ride the bike you're comfortable with, I'd say, If that means selling the Ninja and getting a Rebel, then do that. Or something else. Sit on lots of bikes, and see what you like. I rode a V-Star during my bike class, and that was pretty short as far as seat height, and I'd expected to get something similar when we bought me a bike. I was surprised when I sat on a Ninja and that I fit! So we bought the Ninja and it's awesome.

[InvisiBill]

I'm 6' so I don't have much to add regarding height stuff. Like adouglas said, it's physically pretty easy to lower the bike, but doing so will at the very least affect ground clearance, and handling if not properly matched. If you can get by with moving the pegs or altering the seat, I think that's probably a better way to go.

I started on a Vulcan 700. My buddy had one and I found a great deal on it. I actually find my Ninja 500 to be more comfortable overall. With a cruiser, you're pretty much plopped on your butt, maybe with the option of moving your legs a bit with highway pegs. My buddy upgraded to a Mean Streak 1600 and rode it on a 6,000 mile trip around the county. He said he spent a lot of time trying to angle his body in weird ways trying to shift the weight off that one point. After I got my Ninja, he got a VFR800, for whatever that's worth.

On a sportbike with your feet below you, you can use your legs to shift around. You can go so far as to completely stand up on the pegs while riding even. The sportier ones that are more like race bikes can have some uncomfortable ergonomics for regular riding, but the little Ninjas have a more standard, upright position.

Get whatever makes you happy. Play around with http://cycle-ergo.com/ to see how you fit on different bikes (it has a "feet on the ground" option too). If you can, try bikes out as much as possible before buying one. Just be aware that in the same way sitting on the couch all day can get uncomfortable, even a "comfy" cruiser can hurt your butt too. Personally, about the only thing I miss from the Vulcan is a little bit of torque. Horsepower is about the same (despite the smaller engine), it handles a lot better, and it's easier to stay comfortable on it.

[motodancer]

@InvisiBill , That's a cool website! I like it. I'm definitely going to try shaving the seat! It seems the easiest and the most ideal

[cadd]

Don't let your BF influence you to use the Ninja if you're not feeling comfortable. If you felt really comfortable with the Rebel at the BRC course, get a used Rebel. Ride it until you feel extremely confident with bike control.

Practice everything they taught you in the BRC course when you have time and access to an empty parking lot. One of the most important skill to have is the quick stop. Keep practicing that until you're comfortable with it.

Also, you may want to get in the habit of putting only one foot down when stopping. This will create muscle memory. If you do decide to sell the Rebel (you'll probably be able to sell it around the same price you purchased it) and get a bike that's a bit taller, you'll feel much more comfortable with putting just one foot down.

You can practice this: as you're coming to a stop, as you're slowing down to 1mph, slowly turn the handlebars to the right (pointing the front wheel away from the bumper of the car in front of you). This will accomplish two things:

1 - It'll give you an escape route while you're stopped. If you see someone coming in hot form behind, you can just twist the throttle and go....and not run into the car in front of you.

2 - As you're turning the steering wheel to the right, just moments before you come to a complete stop, your bike will emphatically lean over to the left...allowing you to put your left foot down. Because of the low seat height of the Rebel, you will be able to get really comfortable doing this. Now, after a few weeks/months/year (however long it'll take you to feel really comfortable riding), you can transfer this skill onto a new bike (which may be taller and heavier) when you think it's time to get a new bike.

[motodancer]

That was one thing we practiced during the MSF course: putting one foot down when stopped. So I'm already comfortable with that (on the Rebel). I just can't do that on the Ninja because it's so tall that when the bike leans over to the side with the foot down, I don't have the strength to keep it up ( I dropped the Ninja twice this way. I have bruises to show it!)

And no worries about the quick stops - I never had a problem with that. We had to go to 2nd gear and then downshift to 1st & brake (as you know it's part of the test). This may not seem great to you experienced riders but I stopped at 10 feet after going 15 mph. Everyone else in my class ranged from 13 feet to even 20+ feet!
Seriously though, I don't want to brag and be all "I'm so awesome" (because I'm not; I'm still a beginner), but the instructors & even the range aid kept saying I was great and I was a natural.
And I do plan on taking the Intermediate level course for more practice. Just because I had so much fun taking the BRC, I want to do it again!

[cadd]

Don't limit yourself to the Rebel if you're looking for a cruiser or a cafe racer type of bike. Depending on your budget, there are quite a few bikes with seat height under 28". I think the Rebel is around 27"????

I know you said no Harleys, but the Sportster 883 is ridiculously low as well. Probably around the same height as the Rebel. But since you said no Harleys, luckily Yamaha makes a carbon copy of the Sportster. It's called the Star Bolt. I've ridden one before and it's a very comfortable ride. Not sure what your budget is, but it's going to be more than a Rebel.

On a lower price point, there's the Suzuki Boulevard series of bikes. I think the S40 is around the same price as a Ninja 300. Probably just as low to the ground as the Rebel.

If you want something more "cool" or hipster, a great bike to start on that looks really retro is the Suzuki TU250. It's a cafe racer. I think that comes in around 30" bike the bike is so narrow that it feels lower than that. My friend's son actually has one. It's a blast. And the best part of this bike, you can get it brand new for around $4,000.

[motodancer]

Low and light! That's all I'm looking for!
Low so I can balance it when stopped, light so I can pick it back up if I fall!

A friend did suggest the Harley Sportster but then he looked it up and saw it was 500+ lbs!

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by cadd

If you want something more "cool" or hipster, a great bike to start on that looks really retro is the Suzuki TU250. It's a cafe racer. I think that comes in around 30" bike the bike is so narrow that it feels lower than that. My friend's son actually has one. It's a blast. And the best part of this bike, you can get it brand new for around $4,000.

I rode a TU250X in the MSF class (the people who already had choke experience got to use the FI bikes). It felt like a 2-wheeled go-kart after riding my VN700. I figured a Ninja 250 would be even more fun. I stumbled upon my Ninja 500 deal while looking for a 250. And that's how I got here...

Originally Posted by motodancer

Low and light! That's all I'm looking for!
Low so I can balance it when stopped, light so I can pick it back up if I fall!

A friend did suggest the Harley Sportster but then he looked it up and saw it was 500+ lbs!

FYI, the PreGen is actually lighter than the Rebel and TU250X by a few pounds. The Rebel has a really low seat height. Here's a quick chart of dry weights and seat heights for comparison (I tossed in my bikes and a 600 supersport just to give you an idea).

Eliminator 125	291	26.8
PreGen 250	304	29.3
Rebel 250 	306	26.6
TU250X    	310	30
NewGen 250	333	30.5
Ninja 500 	388	30.5
Vulcan 500	412	28.3
ZX-6R     	423	33
Vulcan 700	515	29.2
Sportster 883	565	25.7

I think Rebel-like heights are going to limit you quite a bit. You're probably going to be looking into (pseudo-)lowering options on a lot of bikes in the future. Even the PreGen isn't that much higher than a number of cruisers. The Sporty is really low too, but weighs almost twice as much.

[greenaero]

welcome Sarah!

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Really? They are that expensive?

The reason I don't like my bf's bike is because I'm too short for it. I'm on my toes when I'm stopped because I can't reach the ground, and he said the seat can't go any lower. Since I can't touch the ground, I'm afraid to leave the parking lot with it.
I rode a Honda Rebel during the MSF course and I just loved it because my feet were flat on the ground and I was sitting more upright, hence why I want a cruiser style bike I was so confident on that bike.

This is my 17 year old daughter.





She might be 5'2" tall, Rides an 89 Ninja 250, she started out with the normal seat height, thought it was too tall because she couldn't flat foot the bike like the Rebel she used in her MSF course. I put a set of lowering links on it and dropped the seat height about 2". Made things much more comfortable for her. 6 months later she prefers to ride my bike with the stock height. Probably going to put the stock links back in and get her a set of adjustable levers like I have. Or I may just sell hers, let her ride mine and get a new bike for me.



A down side to the lowered bikes is they don't corner as well. I've hit the peg feelers with her bike, never done it with either of mine or my sons.

[SLOWn60]

I don't like lowering links because of the lowering of clearance for cornering and lessening of suspension travel.

However having said that; I think they are a great idea for those new riders that need them. For a very simple reason: a new rider is not likely to be testing the limits of their suspension for some time but until the day comes when they begin to test those limits; they'll have had all that time to getting used to handling the bulk & balance of a motorcycle. It's a much easier transition to have to learn to tippy toe on a proper suspension than having to learn to tippy toe from day one!

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

I don't like lowering links because of the lowering of clearance for cornering and lessening of suspension travel.

However having said that; I think they are a great idea for those new riders that need them. For a very simple reason: a new rider is not likely to be testing the limits of their suspension for some time but until the day comes when they begin to test those limits; they'll have had all that time to getting used to handling the bulk & balance of a motorcycle. It's a much easier transition to have to learn to tippy toe on a proper suspension than having to learn to tippy toe from day one!

I agree, that's why we will be pulling the links out soon. They are really great for giving a new rider confidence of flat feet on the ground. But they do have a down side in the loss of cornering clearance. However I don't think the cornering clearance would be any worse than a Rebel would be.

Looking at the chart from @InvisiBill if you put the 2" lowering links in a Pregen it is only 1/2" higher than a Rebel. After the rider gets used to the bike it is back to it's sporty self with the stock links.

@motodancer If you find a nice used Pregen I should have a set of lowering links soon. They were given to us by another forum member. Would be happy to pay it forward to another new rider.

[motodancer]

Yeah I want to avoid lowering the whole bike if it's going to be a problem.
I lean far when I turn apparently, because the MSF instructor told me to slow down & not lean as much because I was really close to scraping the pegs of the Rebel on the ground.

I was looking at the bike this morning and I don't know how much of the seat I can shave! It already looks pretty thin (unless there's more of it that I can't see?!)
It's a 2008 if that makes a difference.

[NevadaWolf]

A site I found a while back has a pretty in depth list of all bikes and their seat heights, if you want to look and see what options are open to you.

http://motorbikewriter.com/what-are-...-seat-heights/

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by motodancer

Yeah I want to avoid lowering the whole bike if it's going to be a problem.
I lean far when I turn apparently, because the MSF instructor told me to slow down & not lean as much because I was really close to scraping the pegs of the Rebel on the ground.

I was looking at the bike this morning and I don't know how much of the seat I can shave! It already looks pretty thin (unless there's more of it that I can't see?!)
It's a 2008 if that makes a difference.

Yeah, the NewGen has a thinner seat and is a bit taller. Lowering it at least temporarily is probably going to be the best way to go. I think rearset adjusters are more common for the NewGen though, to get the pegs out of the way some.

FYI, leaning a lot isn't necessarily a good thing. If the bike is straighter up and down, you can devote more traction to going rather than to turning. You can shift your weight (hanging off like racers do is the extreme version of this) so that the overall weight distribution is still the same, but the bike is leaning less. You end up turning the same, but without having to lean the bike as much.

I'm also guessing the Rebel doesn't have as much clearance for leaning as a Ninja. I can't say anything for sure since I've never seen you ride, but you're probably safer in that regard on the Ninja than on the Rebel.