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Old September 10th, 2021, 04:24 AM   #1
Bob KellyIII
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After Lowering my 250R

I have a question or two for you guys and gals....
I have lowered the Ass of my 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R a long way...
so that the seat height is only 27"~28" the passengers seat sits almost level
now so it's came down a good 4 " or so....
My question is.... sense I lowered the rear should I also lower the front as well
to keep the steering geometry correct ?
I've ridden it and I can tell no difference at all in the steering but that wasn't pushing it by any means... I just putted down the road and back about 5 miles
and it seems the same to me...
Technically, my answer to that question is YES just to keep the steering geometry the same as NOW it's not what it was I have increased the head angle a fraction or as much as half a degree but raising the forks in the triple trees by the same amount I lowered the rear should compensate for that small change and get it back to normal.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this if you would be so kind !
...
like I said I haven't noticed any change but I might, when I get in to good cornering which I haven't done sense the lowering.
.....
Bob....
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Old September 10th, 2021, 05:39 AM   #2
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I don't think you should have lowered the rear in the first place. My daughter is less than 5'4" tall and manages my stock Ninja. She has a little trouble backing up if the pavement isn't level, but prefers putting up with inconveniences like that and not flat-footing to losing cornering clearance or suspension travel, or changing the excellent handling.

If you must have it lower than stock, lowering the front and rear 2" is preferable to lowing the rear 4" alone. That's still a lot, and may create problems like the front fender hitting something, you'd have to make some measurements to be sure.
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Old September 10th, 2021, 06:15 AM   #3
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Thanks Jim I appreciate your candor . there seams to be alot of ground clearance to choose from on this bike anyway and it can afford to loose some
Yes 2" probably would have done it but if I'm going to do it, why not go whole hog eh ? HAHAHHAAH
I don't think I Could hurt the handling of the bike very easily it does handle so well as compared to so many other bikes I have had in the past. the best handling bike I ever owned was the Kawasaki W1 650cc a 1968 model if I remember right... it had the same geometry as the BSA and Triumphs of the day, 28deg fork angle if I recall ... in the late 1970's and 1980's they changed all that and you got a refrigerator to ride, it went straight real good but didn't corner worth a darn. the only bikes that went back to the 28deg. angle was the crotch rocket type quick responsive handling is what I want , that is why I bought this machine... I remember riding down big ben road on my W1 and not having to think about steering it simply went where you thought !
I've only got a hint of that kind of handling on this bike so far mainly because I haven't put enough miles on it I am sure...but the potential is there !
.....
Yes I know short people can ride tall bikes Youtube has tons of videos on the subject, but that does not mean it is better than having a bike that is shorter! to me a tall bike is a hazard both to you and the bike !
why the Motorcycle Gods started making them so darn tall in the first place is a mystery... especially on dirt bikes and yet that is the first thing they raised
you don't need 12" of ground clearance to hop a log in the boonies !
....
.... So Your saying lower the front as much as I can without having fender problems eh?
thanks again for your Honesty !
Bob.......
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Old September 10th, 2021, 06:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
there seams to be alot of ground clearance to choose from on this bike anyway and it can afford to loose some
I cherish ground clearance and would not want to give up any. My daughter agrees. Scraping metal parts mid-turn is not something we enjoy! Here's all 5'3-1/2" of her on my stock height Ninja 250:
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Old September 10th, 2021, 06:48 AM   #5
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.... So Your saying lower the front as much as I can without having fender problems eh?
No, I'm saying raise the rear 2" from where it is now, and lower the front 2" if you really need it to be that much lower than stock.
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Old September 10th, 2021, 06:54 AM   #6
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I'm 5'5" with 28.5" inseam. Ride street-bike with 32" seat-height perfectly fine. My 250 track bike has rear lifted 1.5" and front lowered 0.5" with 32" seat-height also.


With rear-end lowered, there's severe handling issues that pops up:

- turn-in response is severely slowed-down due to more relaxed head-angle. Changed 1-degree for each 20mm height change. So you've reduced head-angle by 5-degrees

- front-end will tend to wash-out coming out of corners, you'll run wide often

- rear wheel-rate reduced, so suspension will move more for same bumps, causing bottoming more frequently (even if travel hadn't been reduced by lowering)


Here's some riding-tips to deal with tall seat. Don't try to stay in centre of bike, you'll fall off one side or other.



Try this:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Some tips (turn on subtitles), lots of these videos. Always have one foot fully on ground, slide butt-cheek off seat:

Link to original page on YouTube.


You can get boots with 2-3" thicker lifted soles.


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Old September 10th, 2021, 07:05 AM   #7
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You made a Ninja 250 chopper.

Sagging out the back will make the handling sloppy and dangerous.

Lowering without causing problems can be tricky. Best to modify the seat or just get used to not being able to "flat foot" it.
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Old September 10th, 2021, 08:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I don't think you should have lowered the rear in the first place. If you must have it lower than stock, lowering the front and rear 2" is preferable.
This is the answer. No further discourse is required
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Old September 10th, 2021, 01:29 PM   #9
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WOW I am suprised ! No body likes the idea of lowering the bike at all !
Yet there are OTHER short people out there as well.
.... I'm Sorry but I am of the opinion if you can't flat foot the bike you shouldn't be on it ! ...it's that simple ! go ahead fall over at the supermarket if you want to but I don't ! LOL
Yes it is designed to be a special purpose bike.... that special purpose is the track.... not the supermarket ! so I see your point...
....
Understood Jim.... raise the rear and lower the front. gotcha !
....
I gott'a think on this more, thanks for the responses !
much appreciated ! ( even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear !!!!)
.....
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Old September 10th, 2021, 01:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
Technically, my answer to that question is YES just to keep the steering geometry the same as NOW it's not what it was I have increased the head angle a fraction or as much as half a degree...
Just for reference, lowering the rear 4" with a 55" wheelbase increases the rake a little more than 4 degrees.

Quote:
I'm Sorry but I am of the opinion if you can't flat foot the bike you shouldn't be on it !
I raised the rear of my 1972 Kawasaki H2 a couple inches with longer shocks to reduce rake, and now it's a taller than stock. I'm 6'-2" tall, and I can't flatfoot it, but in the 45 years I've had it I've never given it a second thought. I don't know why flatfooting has any importance at all.
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Old September 10th, 2021, 01:36 PM   #11
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DUH ! wow that is alot ...I should be able to feel that in the turns easily
.....
OK , obviously more work on the Ninja is called for .
we'll see what I come up with !LOL....
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Old September 10th, 2021, 08:04 PM   #12
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Ok I got the front down as far as I can go.... that is about 2" lower than stock I think.
You see I didn't lower the front when I put the handle bar risers on, but I just did now , so it should make it just about like stock again....
although I expect I will have to shorten the side stand before I take it out again.... not everywhere you park the bike is dirt so you can slide it backwards and dig a hole so it will lean over ! LOL.....
so Now the front forks are all the way up into the handle bars with the 1" extensions under them so i suspect it's about a 2" drop
I think I will go up 1 click on the pre load while I have it in the shop and
get the suspension completely done ....for now... <GRIN>
...
I plan to tackle the "Not setting Flush" fairing as I put the fairings back on it
and see if I can find something to make the one fairing bolt actually do some holding... the brass nut inside the rubber at the front part of the right fairing is missing ( there is nothing in the rubber) but I dunno HOW i am going to fix that.... #1 it's metric and #2 it's in Rubber..... it's a strange challenge !
.... I do have a few Metric nuts and bolts that I bought, so maybe I can make one of the nuts fit inside the rubber and cure the problem. we'll see !
.....
I am wondering if there is a way to align the front headlight fairing so that both side fairings fit properly like they should ... it seams with all my fiddling it's getting out'a whack ! and the more I play with it the worse it gets !
I've loosened the large bolts and moved the headlight fairing back to close the gap where the side fairing and headlight fairing meet, but it ain't right by any means... the side fairing has to be all the way forward to fit right
and that throws off the bottom where the 2 side fairings meet...
so if you have a remedy for this ailment I'd appreciate hearing about it ! LOL
.....
Bob......
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Old September 10th, 2021, 08:10 PM   #13
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That's a lot to lower it. I'm 5'4", and I can totally flat-foot my Ninja, stock height. I bought the Ninja in part because I DO fit on her. I initially thought I'd be stuck with cruisers, since the seat height is lower on them.
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Old September 10th, 2021, 08:30 PM   #14
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Jim !
if you get used to a tall bike it's not a problem , I know I've done that as well
but I have found that a shorter bike is so much easier to "Manhandle" and
maneuver in the yard that it is not even funny.
IF YOUR used to it you know what you must do at a stop sign if your not it catches you by surprise and you can drop it just because of that.... yah you learn quickly ...no doubt !
a lower bike is important for a few reasons people that are short ( like me)
need the lowness just to push the bike backwards...even on flat ground !
other wise you have to get off and pull it backwards by the handle bars and that can get ugly fast. slip on a rock and you have a bike on top of you !
it's much safer if you can just waddle backwards while on the bike. BUT you can't really do that too easily if the bike is tall.
if your used to the bike being tall and your trying to move it backwards your butt comes off the seat to the left and your left leg moves you backwards
it's what ever you get used to I guess...it's easier to screw up and fall over when the bike is tall ... than when it is shorter to the ground.
GROUND HANDLING is the main reason I suppose, when your flying low it has no real bearing unless you drag something ! .... and sense I bit the dirt doing 50MPH on a country road because I drug something I am acutely aware of how dangerous it is to drag something on the bike !
so anytime a person lowers Anything on a bike you must take into consideration ...is it going to DRAG ????
.....
Now with my bike lowered to the max I am going to have to be real careful and make darn sure nothing even touches the pavement no matter the conditions. it would ruin my day to discover the exhaust pipe hits the pavement on a tight turn and wind up in the trees ! ( or side stand)
.....
Bob.......
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Old September 10th, 2021, 08:50 PM   #15
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Caligirl:
Yes I fell in love with the 2012 250R when it first came out simply because it fit me better than so many other machines.... if you want a laugh go sit on a 1300cc Honda v twin cruser.... their made for guys that are 7' tall
I sat on one in the Honda shop and I could not reach the petals and I would have to lay the handle bars almost horozontal just to use the controls !
....
if that's not bad enough look at the big dirt bikes again they are made for 7' tall people ... back in the early 1970's this "Size thing" wasn't an issue but it is now. the suzuki 400cc single 2 stroke fit me just fine ! but try to find a 400cc bike that fits me now is a joke.... I know of one out there , the CSC RX4 450cc
adventure type bike... but I will have to lower it a little bit it's seat height is 31.9" so a bit tall for this short o'l man !
.....
Yes I really lowered my Ninja ! and I am excited to see if I messed it up or not...LOL
I certainly do not want to take away from the handling but lowering it for safety's sake is more important to me ...I'll make it handle again once it's lower !!!!!!
..... Yes I have a hatred for tall bikes ! especially when they don't have to be so darn tall.... what the heck are the manufacturer's thinking ???
if you've ever been riding a 34" seat height bike on a dirt road and stopped to take in the view and promptly fell over, because it is so darn tall you can sympathise ! ....
I know You've lowered your bike, what was the final outcome of that ordeal
how far for the front and rear ???
....
Bob........
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Old September 11th, 2021, 01:21 PM   #16
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Making your bike be the way you want it is a good reason for these forums. I've done very little to my bike, only a couple of cosmetic things, and the maintenance.

I hear you on the tall bikes, dirtbikes especially. Friend-of-a-friend had one back in the day that was short. I think it came out of the 60s or something, heavy as anything, but it worked for me, and I rode trails for a bit with husband. Haven't looked lately but two of the three my guys have are super tall and I would have difficulty on them.
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Old September 11th, 2021, 04:30 PM   #17
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I Just came in from the shop.... I got the pirty little ninja all back together
and I'm almost done for the day....
I shortened the side stand and re welded it... so it's exactly 5/8" shorter
( I hope that is enough !!!!!) I was going to go 3/4" but I decided against that because I cut a full 1" section out of one bike (XR650L Honda) and found that was a little too much... so I am erring on the cautious side ! LOL...
....
anyway.... back at it, I still gott'a grind and then paint that side stand !
....
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Old September 11th, 2021, 05:24 PM   #18
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Lowering can be done on any bike... Yes that is a wild statement !
but it can be if your determaned to do it !
the type of older motorcycles with 2 shocks going down to the swing arm can be by buying shorter shocks, or like what I did just weld a bolt to the swing arm
back further than the normal post for the shock to sit on... that will lean the shock more and give you a softer ride too...
...the type of mono shock with "Dogbones" are usually very easy as lowering kits are available all over the net.
the harder ones are the type like the CSC RX4 has it has a block with 2 arms coming off it.... but those can be lengthened or a new part made
....
the front is easy, almost all bikes can just raise the forks in the triple trees
although there are some with tapers below the top tree, those demand a spacer to lower them.
.... so you can have a lower seat height... but again be careful you don't drag on the corner ... corner and bumps can make stuff drag that never drug before !.... LOL....
....

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Old September 11th, 2021, 11:11 PM   #19
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Here’s petite Japanese girl riding around countryside on her CBR600RR with 32” seat height. Has some tips on dealing with tall bike.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtl...N2z8TWA/videos
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Old September 12th, 2021, 05:57 AM   #20
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"so you can have a lower seat height... but again be careful you don't drag on the corner ... corner and bumps can make stuff drag that never drug before !.... LOL"

requiring a conscious effort to NOT "drag" on the corner? Grats, you've now destroyed the nature (and capabilities) of your bike, IMHO o' course.
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Old September 12th, 2021, 07:48 AM   #21
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requiring a conscious effort to NOT "drag" on the corner? Grats, you've now destroyed the nature (and capabilities) of your bike, IMHO o' course.
Right. I want my knee puck to touch the pavement before anything on the motorcycle does. Once hard parts of the motorcycle touch down it's too late... you're already in big trouble.
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Old September 12th, 2021, 07:58 AM   #22
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Ducattiman.... no,no,no it's not like that at all... it's the normal bike that it was ,just lower and easier to handle... I don't have to consciously worry about dragging on any bike I ride because I have taken steps to make sure nothing will drag under full compression, it's not like "I could take that corner faster if I didn't have to worry about dragging the exhaust pipe." ...I'll move the exhaust pipe before I'll let that happen ! ....
but seriously... it's the same bike , just lower that's all !
IMHO more people would benefit from lowering their bikes ....
....
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Old September 12th, 2021, 09:11 AM   #23
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it's not like "I could take that corner faster if I didn't have to worry about dragging the exhaust pipe."
The exhaust pipe is not going to be the only problem. Look closely at what's near the ground in this photo. The front and rear springs are stiffer than stock too, so when my 100 lb. daughter is riding it, there is not a lot of compression. If this 250 had been lowered anywhere as near as much as you've done to yours, she would have crashed or been forced to slow way down.

That's a typical curve on the Dragon, and she's probably not going over 35 mph, by the way.
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Old September 12th, 2021, 12:06 PM   #24
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Thanks Jim... I'll keep that in mind... but remember I am no racer by any means... though I do like to corner, any of you guys would leave me in the dust. !
.... I'll watch it.... if there is a problem I can raise it back up !!!!
....
But it's too late to close the gate after the cows are already Out Bob !!!!
LOL....I can hear ya thinking it ! I understand ! trust me it'll be fine !
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Old September 12th, 2021, 02:02 PM   #25
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Real problems are those unanticipated situations. Come around corner and there’s deer in road or lorry heading wrong way in your lane. It’ll be instinctive to steer around obstacle. What happens with rapid steering & cornering. Lean angle!

In stock trim, bike will grind kickstand bracket and exhaust well before reaching cornering limits of tyres anyway. I have to raise rear end of track bike for more clearance. On street, hard parts touching down will jack up tyres off ground and cause crash. You’ll end up sliding under front-end of that lorry you’re trying to avoid.
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Old September 12th, 2021, 04:25 PM   #26
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Another little lady riding tall ADV bike worldwide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6Dp...v8vle5Iq99pA20
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Old September 12th, 2021, 04:38 PM   #27
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Danno, I think at this point trying to get Bob to do what's reasonable would be a lot like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.
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Old September 13th, 2021, 12:11 AM   #28
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HAhahhahhaa!!!

https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...-commonly-make

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Old September 13th, 2021, 01:30 AM   #29
Bob KellyIII
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Yah LOL.... but he is missing the point like many of you guys are.... the bike doesn't have to be so tall !!!!!
Lower the darn thing !
though it's true some bikes are so tall that even lowering it to the max and it is still too tall for some one of my stature !
so you either get another bike or start modifying the frame, which I have done
on a few of my machines in the remote past...
but that gets into a can of worms real fast and usually is uglier than sin !
and it's not much short of just re making the bike with the available parts...
.... when I first got my Honda 305 Dream when I was Just out of High school
the first thing I did to it was modify the seat ... it had a metal frame with springs in it and then a plastic layer so the springs could flex and a thin layer of foam and then the cover... the seat Added 4" of height to the bikes frame, it just set on top of it and the rear shock mounts... what I did was take the spreader bar that was right at the center of where you sat on it and I lowered it to the bottom rail of the seat then hooked the springs up to form a deep "V" in the seat right where my butt was placed... when I got the bike it was a tip toe affair for me, after the seat mod I could flat foot it easily, so I never had to do anything else but ride the thing.
....
Tallness on a motorcycle is dangerous because your putting unnecessary force on the extremities ...like your pointed toes, and when the bike does lean enough to where your flat footed on that leg ,the inertia of that bikes weight will try real hard to bend your leg for you......
.... and the hassle of dealing with a tall bike is totally unnecessary !
because if you take the front down 2" and the back down 2" the geometry of the suspension is still the same
the only thing that changes is the slight downward angle of the rear swing arm it's now horizontal not angling down and this really has no major effects on the bikes performance or handling
you do loose 2" of ground clearance though, and many people do not lower their bikes thinking they need that 8" to 12" of ground clearance...but they Ran Hair and Hound desert races with hopped up normal street bikes with knobbies on them and won and their ground clearance was about 3" or 4"
.....
for years I hopped logs on the ranch with about 6" of ground clearance and never touched the frame, you simply get the front up and goose it...the trajectory will make the rear tire hit before the frame does ...hehehehe !
and most of the modern bikes have way too much ground clearance to begin with, the Ninja included ..there is at least 4" of plastic hanging down under the frame on my 2012 Ninja... ...
....
bringing DOWN the ground clearance has a few benefits, it lowers the center of gravity ..( NEEDED on the Ninja)... which is the biggest advantage of a high COG bike. and it lowers where you put your bottom, because the whole bike is lower. It also makes ground handling much easier and less likely to fall over . I've dropped my Ninja 3 times because it has so High of a center of gravity ! .... that and I'm a clutz ! LOL
.... but there are disadvantages too... you may drag stuff on corners that you never did before. yes I had scratches on both the alternator cover and clutch cover on 2 of my bikes before I realised they were the first thing to touch with folding foot pegs....it was like, move your weight to the inside of the corner dummy and keep the bike more upright !.... never had the problem again.... it taught me something...<grin>
....
A friend of mine that worked at a bike shop, where I did in Reno,Nv. said when Kenny Roberts went by him , he saw sparks from the side covers on both sides and then he was gone.... he was the manager of the service department of the bike shop i worked at, his name was Mitch... and he was really fast on 2 wheels. but Kenny Roberts was just INSANE !!!
and before you ask who Kenny Roberts is he was a Racer... before 75% of you were born !
.....
No... it's not the complete answer to a motorcycle's problems but for me it is a major one.... as I said I will not ride a bike I cannot flat foot on...and I mean that !.... I'm too old to be crawling out from under a bike that fell over at a signal light ... and have 4 ambulances and 12 cops show up trying to help because of cell phones !
...
later all.
Bob........
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Old September 13th, 2021, 10:38 AM   #30
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Bob, I hear your frustration. Bikes don't have to be so tall, but the Ninja does; it was designed that way. If you lower it and use it, it will drag parts. Learning to ride a tall bike as a short person is something I have not had to do, so I can't relate to your issues in the same way. For me, I've always looked like a frog on little Ninjas (35" inseam).
It sounds to me like one of two things needs to happen: modify the Ninja to the point that is acceptable* and learn to ride it, OR buy a shorter bike. If I were you, I would look at the Rebel 500 or 300. Honda did some really amazing stuff with that redesign and the engines are fantastic. The seat heights are lower than anything I could ever sit on and flat-footable for anyone.

*Lowering an ex250 4" in the back is not safe. Zero Kawasaki chassis engineers will agree that this is safe. Can it still be ridden? Yes, but that's how 4 ambulances and 12 cops show up trying to help. You said yourself you have taken precautions to ensure nothing drags on full compression after lowering your bike(s). Your Ninja was rubbing the rear tire and inner fender, so this is not the case. That is a definite red flag that you have altered the intention of the bike's geometry.
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Old September 13th, 2021, 11:39 AM   #31
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With only 1" of suspension travel left in rear-end, you'll want to increase spring-rate to not bottom out. To have 1" travel for same bump that would bottom stock suspension, need to increase rear spring-rate by 4x to 37kg/mm from factory 9.3kg/mm. Along with reducing compression-damping and increasing rebound-damping significantly in shock. Otherwise, bottoming suspension and hitting bump-stops while in middle of corner has disastrous effects...

Maybe you'll want to look at Eliminator 250, uses same engine as Ninja 250 pre-gen...

I once heard a saying: "rather than trying to cover entire world in leather, just wear leather shoes..."
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Old September 13th, 2021, 01:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Maybe you'll want to look at Eliminator 250, uses same engine as Ninja 250 pre-gen...
That would be a much better motorcycle for Bob.
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Old September 13th, 2021, 01:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
WOW I am suprised ! No body likes the idea of lowering the bike at all !
Yet there are OTHER short people out there as well.
.... I'm Sorry but I am of the opinion if you can't flat foot the bike you shouldn't be on it ! ...it's that simple ! go ahead fall over at the supermarket if you want to but I don't ! LOL
Yes it is designed to be a special purpose bike.... that special purpose is the track.... not the supermarket ! so I see your point...
....
Understood Jim.... raise the rear and lower the front. gotcha !
....
I gott'a think on this more, thanks for the responses !
much appreciated ! ( even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear !!!!)
.....
Bob...
Completely agreed with him! if the foot can't flat then it's also a bit awkward to sit on it
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Old September 13th, 2021, 07:29 PM   #34
Bob KellyIII
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OK by now I have reverted the lowering in the rear by a bit.. how much I don't know... but I know the rear tire will not hit the inner fender well when I hit a BIG bump like it did last time.
....
I appreciate all the opinions ! I really do...
I haven't ridden it sense lowering it so I think I should before I do anything else
.... so that is next...
I may take an evening ride or just wait till tomorrow....
....I'll measure the seat height now too I got a feeling it wound up close to stock again.... but we'll see.
.....
Bob....
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Old September 13th, 2021, 08:29 PM   #35
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You only need one foot flat on ground anyway. Much more stable than 2 actually.
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Old September 13th, 2021, 08:44 PM   #36
Bob KellyIII
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I just returned from an initial RUN with the lowered Ninja....
if anything it is faster reacting in the corners, so that is right !
the seat height is still much lower than stock , so that's right !
it's dark outside so I didn't bother to get the measuring tape to measure seat height... I'll get that later.
I went to the truck stop and filled the gas tank it was at about 1/2 tank so
I figured I'd top it off...LOL...
it was a good ride but too much traffic I really could not get into the cornering
much but what I did I think it has improved by quite a bit.
...so first impressions are great ! it's lower and it still corners good.
so all in all i think it's a win....
......

I don't know what the compression ratio is on a stock Ninja so I put in premium
gas... thinking it might be quite high sense that engine puts out so much power .
.......
although I can't be sure of anything yet.... it looks like it worked great !
I took a few good turns but not really hanging it out to dry and nothing drug
so , so far I think i'm safe ....
the way it sits it's good for most of my riding but I'ed have to push it hard to be sure.... and I haven't done that yet.
.....
my headlight needs to be adjusted Down... it was high before but now it's really high !
.....
I was afraid that lowering the rear so much would make it not want to corner, but that is NOT the case it corners just fine. at least for this O'l man !
LOL......
...
I'm beginning to think that this bike is the best cornering machine I've ever had ! LOL I'm quite pleased !
.....
Bob.........
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Old September 13th, 2021, 09:55 PM   #37
Bob KellyIII
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with the bike leaned over on it's side stand, the seat height is 28.5" exactly.
it's leaning at a good lean as I have the kick stand off the plywood that the bike sits on... simply because when I shortened the side stand I didn't shorten it enough.... it sets a bit too vertical for my liking !
so 28.5" un sprung seat height. with my weight on it it sinks about 1" max.
.....
my Concern is that the side stand bracket might touch on a corner...everything else looks to be fine ...I have no way of compressing the bike and then leaning it over to see if it will or not.... I don't THINK it will, but we all know how that goes ! LOL
so the only way for me to know is to ride it and see....
....
I was thinking I could get ratchet straps and compress the rear swing arm and front forks enough to lay it over and see if it will get close or not....
has anyone ever done that ?
.....
Bob......
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Old September 13th, 2021, 11:12 PM   #38
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Knowing actual angle it touches won’t help anything unless you have angle-gauge on dash to monitor while you’re riding. Just take it easy and gradually increase angle with each corner. Your ears will tell you what angle it’ll rub.

Heck, even on raised bike, side-stand bracket touches down on track. I just cut whole thing off frame.

Bike was designed for 87-oct petrol and using higher won’t change anything. In some cases, you’ll actually lose power. Unless you actually modded engine to take advantage of higher-octane fuel such as installing big-bore 13,5:1 high-comp pistons or boost.

Dyno - Octane vs. Horsepower - Separating fact from myth in the debate over which fuel makes more power - NASA Speed News Magazine (some misinformation, but good dyno-testing shows higher-octane reduces power)

Dyno - Fuel Rating - Octane Comparison - Dyno Tests Graphs - Hot Rod Magazine (2% increase required 114-octane, and also needs adjusting ignition-timing. No one's butt is going to notice 2% difference, but your wallet will notice 400% increase in fuel-cost).

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; September 18th, 2021 at 08:42 AM.
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Old September 13th, 2021, 11:55 PM   #39
Bob KellyIII
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LOL....I had to do that on one bike I lowered , I cut it off and just moved it back about 3 " on the frame and up and that cured the problem. don't remember what bike that was though....but it would hit just after the footpegs in close cadence.... and when it hit You'd know it ! it was a definite wallop !
it didn't lift the wheels off the ground or anything like that which is what happened on the 1100cc Honda shadow... it just laid over without warning!
and I would rather not repeat that experience again !
it's been my experience that Most bikes hang in there when something drags
it's odd to have the bike just give up the ghost and fall completely over on a turn... but it does happen, probably because that bike was a heavy Pig ! 800lbs of metal 80 hp and made to go straight ! on the freeway it was like it was on rails no wind from an 18 wheeler ever bothered the bike at all.... about blew me off the bike ,but the heavy thing never even quivered !
..... on my 305 dream I drug both sides many times and didn't think much of it. but it was a ancient machine 1963 or 1968 not sure which, it's been so long ago. cantilever type front end that went over fire wood on the freeway at 65 mph a few times and never bothered it ! ....
believe me you don't want to hit firewood on the road on a bike !
... i did in a Ford Pinto and had to replace 2 rims on the right side !
I've hit 3 pieces of firewood on the highway 2 on a bike and one in a car...
people that haul fire wood should be more careful about stacking the wood to tall that it falls off on the road !!!!
the second one on a bike was a glancing blow, I dodged it mostly still caught the corner of it though.... 3 days later had a flat in the morning !
so I replaced the tire with a Pirelli mt-53 best tire in those days ! LOL....
they held the road rain snow sleet or hail ! had them on both ends of the 305
and loved them.
....
Bob....
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Old September 14th, 2021, 05:20 AM   #40
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I like the first reader comment in the first link:

Quote:
Geoff Brown January 19, 2020 At 8:28 am

The accuracy and resolution of a chassis dyno are way below that required to make this in any way a meaningful test.
The slightly lower or higher readings could be due to tire temperature or other variables as much as engine temperature. I just assume octane rating has essentially no effect on power as long as there's no detonation.
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