Loud Pipes Save Lives?

[rockNroll]

64% have a grasp

[Yoda]

Considering I have idjits try to plow into my work van all the time. And Ive had people claim they didnt notice a car that had a blown 428 long tube headers and straight pipes.

Ill vote no loud pipes wont help.

Especially friday nights on the commute home I feel like Im in that movie Death Race and I got gypped out of the machine guns and rockets.

[Guinss]

Personally I bought my slip-on because of looks, and to have the bike actually make some noise. It's really loud compared to stock. That's what I relate with a sport-bike. Some find it annoying, some asks me to rev the engine.

I have noticed a few people, of the thousands i meet on the road, turn around in their cars when i drive up behind them. But I think gear and experience saves so many more lives, compared to what a loud pipe possibly could do.

My bet is this is an excuse people use to buy a loud pipe, that they tell their wife/husband/family.
"I gotta buy this exhaust, it's a safety feature"

[b_eastep]

its funny that the results on a diff forum for bigger kawasaki sportbikes would be completely diff.

[Kitdog]

I don't even care if loud pipes save lives or not, I just love the sound of an engine, I even have a glass pack on my dads john deer tractor

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by Kitdog

... I just love the sound of an engine...

Me too! Only reason I do modifications is to liven my car or bike up. I'm not trying to make it loud (And usually I try to keep it from getting really loud, I just want a more sporty sound) I do it for my enjoyment and the performance of my vehicle.

[Snake]

+1 I bought an Area P full exhaust because I wanted to improve the bikes performance and sound.

[mrlmd]

At what kind of performance increase did you get?
Increased HP measured on a dyno before and after?
Quicker acceleration 0-60mph? 60-90?
Better gas mileage?
Or $300-400 of hype and "better sound" - ie, noise?
Unless you have measured it before and after, I'm sure you are convinced the bike runs better and faster with the new exhaust, probably just because the extra noise convinces you it is making more power and that is good.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by greg737

Once you get your head lodged far enough up your rear end on an issue (any issue) you can easily fail to notice when somebody else is begging for you to show a little maturity and consideration. How's this for an example:
Oh really, you don't want to disturb your neighbors? Would you even be willing to "get the hint" if they waited for you in the street at 1:00 AM with a baseball bat?

I've actually had my neighbors meet me outside at 1:00 am and ask me to take them for a ride.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you honestly think a revved engine communicates the message "you fu@#ed up" better than a horn? how many cars do you know that rev their engine when they're going to hit someone? or when someone starts pulling out in front of them?
now sure, in a low-speed situation where someone is creeping toward you, and you want to be "polite", by all means. rev the sh!# out of it and piss everyone around you off. don't bother with that "wimpy sounding" meep meep. that crap's for cars, right?

I was in a similar situation. Travelling 60 mph on the freeway in the left-hand lane where a guy decided to merge into my lane with me right beside him. I laid on the horn for what seemed like an eternity. Guess what? It did nothing. I rev the engine and he immediately pops up and looks in my direction.

This is what I love about this discussion. If people throw examples of loud engines or loud pipes saving their life, they are told they are wrong or told that their perception of the situation was warped. To me, if one person out of 10,000 has a true to life example of how their loud a$$ exhaust saved their life, then loud pipes do save lives. Am I wrong?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I was in a similar situation. Travelling 60 mph on the freeway in the left-hand lane where a guy decided to merge into my lane with me right beside him. I laid on the horn for what seemed like an eternity. Guess what? It did nothing. I rev the engine and he immediately pops up and looks in my direction.

This is what I love about this discussion. If people throw examples of loud engines or loud pipes saving their life, they are told they are wrong or told that their perception of the situation was warped. To me, if one person out of 10,000 has a true to life example of how their loud a$$ exhaust saved their life, then loud pipes do save lives. Am I wrong?

Ok, i'm sorry but i'm tired of this denial.

you're trying to tell me as someone was heading straight toward you, after you layed on your horn, instead of taking evasive action, you grabbed your clutch, and revved your engine? you really think this is smart? even if the person didn't hear the horn, you think that trying another audible alert is worth a shot? why not move out of the way instead of cutting off your power supply? i'm sorry but being loud should be your VERY LAST RESORT. if you're putting yourself in a situation where you need to be heard, you've already failed.

people aren't trying to say there's not a possibility that being loud won't increase your chances of being noticed. it will. what people ARE saying is that you have FAILED if you require people to notice you and not hit you. only YOU are responsible for keeping other people from being ABLE to hit you. if people are easily able to make a small mistake and smash into you, YOU fail. NOONE ELSE. so get it out of your mind that it's other people's fault if they hit you, because guess what. it doesn't matter who's fault it is when you're in the hospital or worse because you got ran over on the freeway because one thing lead to another.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

To me, if one person out of 10,000 has a true to life example of how their loud a$$ exhaust saved their life, then loud pipes do save lives. Am I wrong?

Yes.

[adri99an]

This thread is sooo intense!


I freakin love it!


My "loud pipe" has saved my life numerous times....I'm just saying....

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Alex

Yes.

Welp, I guess we are done here folks. Discussion closed! Anyone that was in a situation where your pipe may have saved your butt, I guess you were imagining things. It was more than likely your lucky pair of underwear that you wore that day. Everyone knows they help more than some old exhaust...

[Alex]

Sarcasm noted, and attributed appropriately. What it comes down to is if a rider is depending on other people on the road to actively do something or not do something to keep the rider safe, the rider is already way behind the curve on their own understanding of how to keep themselves alive. Thinking a loud exhaust is some talisman that will keep people from merging into you, prevent them from pulling out in front of you, prevent them from drifting over while they are in their own haze; this type of thinking is done by riders with not enough miles under their belt. Simple as that.

With experience and maturity, comes the realization that the only thing that can keep you safe is your own awareness, skills, and ever attentiveness while on the road. The problem with the whole loud pipes issue is that even if there is one case where someone can point to "Aha! They heard my pipe and moved over!", that's not a lifesaving measure. It's another motorist with the thought of "great, another f*cking loud-ass motorcycle. What an a-hole." The cumulative weight of all of those experiences does a heck of a lot more to decrease our safety. It's why the AMA has changed their tune. It's why states are getting on the bandwagon of more noise legislation. It's why motorcycles are banned from some private subdivisions.

But don't worry, nobody expects anyone to change their mind by reading threads like this. Eventually everybody grows up and gets it on their own.

[adri99an]

Andre- there are tons of valid points here....fyi... I wrap my lucky underwear around my pipe just to be extra sure my life is saved.

I think we can all agree that exhausts make "some" people aware of our existance on the road, but they do not save lives......

Maybe KKIM needs to create a poll that asks...."What saves lives" because his question is re-donk-ulous....it's a question that creates tension and heated debates....such as "Will nonfat yogurt make one fat?" or Who believes in this "Holocaust" idea? It's a question to make one think about pipes and why we put them on our bikes.

I have an extra pipe in my garage just in case and a picture of a pipe hanging over my bed as well.

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by mrlmd

At what kind of performance increase did you get?
Increased HP measured on a dyno before and after?
Quicker acceleration 0-60mph? 60-90?
Better gas mileage?
Or $300-400 of hype and "better sound" - ie, noise?
Unless you have measured it before and after, I'm sure you are convinced the bike runs better and faster with the new exhaust, probably just because the extra noise convinces you it is making more power and that is good.

Yes measurable gains, I don't dig butt dynos, I did say I don't like my machines to be extremely loud. I like the decibels where they are now which is why when I have the money I will get the area p quiet core for performance gains and minimal noise increase.

Like alex.s said there are instances when a loud exhaust will get you noticed and keep other drivers at bay or running over you (Heck when I had a wai on my intake some people wouldn't merge over into a lane as I was doing so sometimes, sometimes they didn't care) however, there are also instances when it will not matter. I don't depend on noise to save me I depend on myself to keep me safe. Will the exhaust save you when the cager simply hits you anyway? no, you have your gear to help you stay alive. This is what I believe some people are getting at, myself included. You have to keep yourself safe, it is fine to add things that you believe will make you more noticeable.

In any case I do believe an exhaust can help you avoid certain situations and in some situations it won't matter

[b_eastep]

thats it! im going outside right now to stomp on some baby chickens!

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Alex

With experience and maturity, comes the realization that the only thing that can keep you safe is your own awareness, skills, and ever attentiveness while on the road.

I think that is a naive statement. You can have thousands of hours under your belt and be the most defensive rider alive. But someone or something can still take you out at any moment. There are factors outside of your power that can and will affect you regardless of how defensive, aware, and skilled you are. And that is why, as motorcyclists, we do all kinds of things to be noticed. By noticed, I mean to be seen in a safety-oriented way, not to show-off. We wear bright colors. We add reflectors and reflective tape. We change our lights so that they are brighter. And yes, some of us change pipes to be heard. We do all of these things to tell people that "We are here."

Do loud pipes save lives? After riding with my loud a$$ pipe through the neighborhood a few times , I realized this was a trick question. So, I will recant my earlier statement. The answer is no. But, neither does defensive driving, gear, or a helmet. I know I am being literal here (I work on computers, ones and zeros all day long, what do you expect!!!). These things can only help to prevent a tragedy or lessen the damage caused in one. If you are about to die, then your life needs saving. And only a doctor or another person can do that.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Alex

With experience and maturity, comes the realization that the only thing that can keep you safe is your own awareness, skills, and ever attentiveness while on the road.

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I think that is a naive statement.

I rest my case.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by Alex

I rest my case.

That's fair. I've only been riding a year, and there is a lot that I don't get. I'm guessing this is just one of those things. I do know that as I am right now, I will not trust my own awareness, skills, and attentiveness to keep me safe. For my own peace of mind, I guess that's why have the bright colors, reflectors all over the place, and loud pipes.

[Alex]

It took me some time as well, so I was in the same boat at one point, don't worry. I had an unbelievably loud pipe on my first bike. Grew out of it.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by b_eastep

thats it! im going outside right now to stomp on some baby chickens!

So here's one.

imagesCAFQY2A0.jpg

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Alex

Sarcasm noted, and attributed appropriately. What it comes down to is if a rider is depending on other people on the road to actively do something or not do something to keep the rider safe, the rider is already way behind the curve on their own understanding of how to keep themselves alive. Thinking a loud exhaust is some talisman that will keep people from merging into you, prevent them from pulling out in front of you, prevent them from drifting over while they are in their own haze; this type of thinking is done by riders with not enough miles under their belt. Simple as that.

With experience and maturity, comes the realization that the only thing that can keep you safe is your own awareness, skills, and ever attentiveness while on the road. The problem with the whole loud pipes issue is that even if there is one case where someone can point to "Aha! They heard my pipe and moved over!", that's not a lifesaving measure. It's another motorist with the thought of "great, another f*cking loud-ass motorcycle. What an a-hole." The cumulative weight of all of those experiences does a heck of a lot more to decrease our safety. It's why the AMA has changed their tune. It's why states are getting on the bandwagon of more noise legislation. It's why motorcycles are banned from some private subdivisions.

But don't worry, nobody expects anyone to change their mind by reading threads like this. Eventually everybody grows up and gets it on their own.

Well said Alex!

[Snake]

So KKim, what are your thoughts on the subject?

[b_eastep]

blonds or redheads? ha!

[Jerry]

Once I almost stepped off a curb into traffic, but the squealing of someones brakes made me jump back on the curb.

Does that mean the squealing of brakes saves lives?

Well, maybe this once, but if everyone squeals their brakes at every stop, how many lives will that save?

[kkim]

Gee, who knew such a simple question would raise such a fuss?

The reason I started this was due to the large number of new riders/owners coming on the board and wanting to change the exhaust as one of the very first things w/o even knowing what it does and what damage they are causing.

Will it save lives????Who knows??? If you're riding so unaware that you position yourself in a blind spot of another vehicle or some soccer mom has her windows rolled up, talking on her cell or has the stereo at full volume listening to the greatest hits form the 70's/80's/90's, do you really think you'll be heard even if you are running "the loudest exhaust" they make?

A loud exhaust, MAY save your life in a very isolated incident, but for the most part, no.

We all do things that we feel will insure/increase our sense of safety on the road. If having a loud pipe is one of them, I'm not a believer in it. Alex pointed out some really good alternatives that actually work.

The real damage you do with an obnoxiously loud exhaust is one that deals with public perception. Most that look up when you ride by with that thing are plotting your demise. The average person could care less what your bike sounds like and for the most part they would rather NOT hear you than have to listen to your obnoxiously loud tooter, blaring/spewing your garbage.

Who cares what they think, right... what do they know, anyway?? Well, the dirt bike community used to have the same attitude about bikes many years ago. Manufactures were delivering off road bikes with a token muffler that essentially let the bike make all the noise a two stroke could muster. I owned many of those bikes and thought how great/bad assed I was raising clouds of dust and riding like the world champion that I just knew I was in someones area behind their houses.

This scenario happened all across the United States and eventually more and more people got fed up with the noise and dust that dirt bikes presented. They organized themselves, appealed to their law makers and riding areas started closing down. Police started to give chase offroad... and you better hope they never caught you.

Today, 2 strokes have for the most part been eliminated from most manufactures line ups. They saw the writing on the wall from Federal laws that would require stricter and stricter emissions standards that was easier to meet using a 4 stroke engine.

Well boys and girls, the same thing is happening today with street bikes. Due to some/many that cannot use some good common sense, they push the acceptable noise envelope and raise the ire of influential people who can change laws to make enforcing a sound limit a reality. They have enlisted the help of the people that shut down the dirt bike riding areas and make it their mission to have you ride a stock exhaust. There have already been attempts in California to make having an aftermarket exhaust on the street, illegal. It's failed for now, but keep on riding with loud exhausts and the scales will tip one day.

I admit it... I'm a contributing factor to the problem. I have an aftermarket system on my bike. But I did so with the full realization of how this fit in with making the bike free of the mandated emissions. And when I did replace the stock exhaust, I did so with the quietest, full system made for our bikes. Hell, I was one of those begging and pleading with Kerry at Area P to develop a quieter version of their race exhaust. That he responded to consumer demand has earned him my respect as a supporter for the little guys. You all don't realize how much of an asset his business model is for our ninjette community. He has a customer for life if he has products that I can use. It is louder at full song and even at idle, but knowing how much sound/noise is a problem with the average citizen, I ride like a granny when in populated area as to avoid attention.

The dirt bike community has a saying to help riders understand the problem of noise pollution...

LESS SOUND, MORE GROUND.

Hopefully, you'll see the similarities between what's happened in the dirt bike world and what is happening in the street bike world.

Ride aware and police yourselves (ourselves) or one day the real police will come knocking on your door about that loud exhaust you have.

[KJohnson21]

^^^ +1 ^^^

[Snake]

Originally Posted by gogoKawi

I was in a similar situation. Travelling 60 mph on the freeway in the left-hand lane where a guy decided to merge into my lane with me right beside him. I laid on the horn for what seemed like an eternity. Guess what? It did nothing. I rev the engine and he immediately pops up and looks in my direction.

This is what I love about this discussion. If people throw examples of loud engines or loud pipes saving their life, they are told they are wrong or told that their perception of the situation was warped. To me, if one person out of 10,000 has a true to life example of how their loud a$$ exhaust saved their life, then loud pipes do save lives. Am I wrong?

You are correct. All it takes is one life to qualfy.

[Snake]

As a side note to the topic at hand. I wonder how many people (I'm one of the gulty ones) realize that when they put on an aftermarket intake or exhaust they are breaking a Federal law. Just look on the side of your exhaust can or in your owners manual?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Snake

As a side note to the topic at hand. I wonder how many people (I'm one of the gulty ones) realize that when they put on an aftermarket intake or exhaust they are breaking a Federal law. Just look on the side of your exhaust can or in your owners manual?

if you do anything to the intake, carbs or exhaust you are breaking the law.

[Snake]

I guess were all a bunch of criminals.

[00NissanNinja]

Its kinda funny how by federal law you can't modify a motorcycle, but a car can get an intake or an exhaust as long as it has e.o. certification. Just shows how much a person is discriminated against for riding a motorcycle, I guess thats another issue this thread wants to show.

[Guinss]

Yeah I am breaking the law too actually. And I have thought about it. But after I went past the police a couple of times, and even parked right besides them while they were eating burgers, I understood that they don't really care about the pipe, if you just ride normally. They have more important stuff to do.

I don't really see bike-noise as any disturbance. In fact I were to be woke up by one, there would be a smile on my face. Any engine noise for that matter.

That being said, I do pop in the low volume insert, without fastening it, when I warm up my bike outside, before going for a ride, often midday. Takes 2 secs so why not? If I'm going out for a ride early morning or late night, i roll down the street before starting the bike up. I keep at low rpm's if I think I'm disturbing anyone. All because there might be people out there, without the same love for engine noise, as I have.

[Snake]

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

Its kinda funny how by federal law you can't modify a motorcycle, but a car can get an intake or an exhaust as long as it has e.o. certification. Just shows how much a person is discriminated against for riding a motorcycle, I guess thats another issue this thread wants to show.

C.A.R.B. - California Air Resources Board - is starting to give exemptions to some after market bike parts manufacturers.

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by Snake

C.A.R.B. - California Air Resources Board - is starting to give exemptions to some after market bike parts manufacturers.

They should

[Tofergstaff]

I think it doesn't necessarily "saves lives" but it cant hurt (well maybe besides your own ears.) But as much as I dont think it is any reason to not drive defensively, I still think it does help a bit.

[Terrorizer]

I have an original 1995 Yoshimura 2-1 system, yes its kinda loud but I bought it that way. I'm not sure if anyone in cars can hear me unless their windows are open, just can't tell. However, people on the sidewalk can definitely hear me coming, especially if I accelerating through second gear, heads do turn so maybe for pedestrians getting ready to cross the street this is helpful and they look and see me which is good. I would prefer a quieter bike,but thats what ive go for now. Tring to find something else to fit , or an insert ( ive done the research) is very difficult or way too expensive for a 15 year old bike. Next year I'm selling her and upgrading anyway.

[TrueFader]

i had a super loud pipe on my bike, my housemates could hear me coming from ever a mile way and have the garage open and waiting for me when i got home. when lane splitting i knew people could hear me coming but it didn't change that i ride assuming everyone isn't going to see me and they all are going to try and merge into me. got a quieter pipe that makes the bike run better and nothing has changed, the garage door just isnt as inviting as it was before.