30MPH - The Magic Speed

[gfloyd2002]

According to the Hurt Report a predominating factor in car/motorcycle accidents is the car failing to yield right of way. "Sorry, I didn't see you." This is most often a car pulling out in front (or into) a motorcycle at an intersection. This also coincides with what most motorcyclist find in their personal experience. So how do we reduce the risks from this type of accident? According to the Motorcycle Stopping Distance Calculator, it takes 150 feet to stop from 60mph, 66 feet to stop from 40mph, and 37 feet to stop from 30MPH. Think about those numbers for a minute -- small increases in speed have a huge impact in the distance we can stop.

And when one compares those stopping distances with the width of a standard intersection, an easy solution presents itself. A typical small intersection is 48 feet wide. Slowing down from 40 mph takes 66 feet, but slowing down from 30 mph takes only 37 feet. So how do we improve our chances of avoiding the most common type of motorcycle accident? Slow down to 30 approaching an intersection where a car might pull out in front of you, and give yourself the space to stop in time.

[phr3ek]

what type of bike did they get those numbers from?

stopping distance can be reduced with lighter bikes, better brake components, better tires and ABS

i personally dont bother with statistics, there are just too many factors that may not have been covered
i just go by personal experience, i know how much braking force i can apply before having the rear end slide, and i know how to control a fishtailing bike

[wayanlam]

i thought and still think that i have a reasonably good understanding of bikes and handling them, been driving since over 12 years, but... there are just too many factors that can and will be totally unexpected, which could easily cause an accident.

obviously practice is the best way to learn, driving cautiously (such as taking an intersection at no more than 30mph) definitely helps im certain of it. but no matter how cautious and how much experience one has... accidents can still happen.

ive fallen off more times than i can remember... sux, lol

but here are some i recall:

* front tire blew out while overtaking a car, thankfully it was slow traffic, didnt really get hurt. in hind site, i learnt to pay more attention to the bike. i realized that the front tire was long due a replacement.

* kite string across the road caught me on the neck... definitely the most freaky accident ive had! i was going reasonably fast... possibly 50mph, saw the string a split second before it hit me, i took one hand to try and get it off, but it got tight, i panicked, couldn't stop fast enough with just one arm on the handlebars. lost control and crashed. ended up with a scar on my neck for a while due to the rope burn... urgh...

* follow up on the kite string... "sigh~" many years after that other accident, at lunch break from work, i was slowing down to stop at a take away to grab some food. there was a kite string hanging off a tree, and it smackd me in the face. must have been my fear/trauma of the damn thing, and i flinched and squeezed the brake harder, and the front wheel locked up... splat, uff...

* driving behind a friend at night after a rainstorm, the roads were dry, but suddenly there was a giant puddle on the road, cos there was some blockages in the sewer causing the rainwater to pool up on the road. my friend in front saw it and hit his brakes hard... i didnt react fast enough, braked, but by then we were on the slippery water, i skidded and ya... fell, lol

* took a turn with a friend on the back, who had very little riding experience, i went to lean, he counter leant, and the back wheel just slid out, i think the road condition was a little wet/moist. but not drenched... would have been fine on my own, or with someone in the back who knew not to fight the lean. uh... again learnt my lesson... drive like a snail with newbees on the back!

* driving at night through a road that i was not totally familiar with, was going too fast, and there was a really sharp 90 degree turn, didnt see it (roads here are barely ever lit, in this case i was on a totally dark unlit road) till it was too late, i wasn't able to slow down fast enough, came of the edge of the road, hit the gravel and stacked it. thankfully at that point i was doing about 5 mph... laid down the bike, and landed on my hands and feet. barely got hurt that time, ive hurt myself more falling while walking i think. anyhow, lesson... drive cautiously on new roads, ESPECIALLY when its pitch black, lol

* oh, my 1st ever accident... driving to a friends house from a party. a little tipsy at the time... anyhow, i sorta forgot where the house was, and i was driving in front of my friend, so i was looking to the side of the road trying to find the house, and WHAM... hit a double pot hole. doing maybe 10~15mph... landed on a heap on the side of the road. yeah... lesson... keep eyes on the road xD

* passing some cars at a red light, when the light just went green. idiot car pulled out to overtake another car when i was parallel to them. i was accelerating at that point, and he just drove me literally off the road and into the gutter. hit and run~ and no, he wasn't turning off, since the T junction was going the other way. basically they didnt look in the mirror, or i was just in their blind spot.

* the last accident which was on my poor ninja 250. driving to the bank, just cruising on a basically empty road (empty on my side). and there is a small S curve, just as i was about to enter the double curve (getting ready to lean in, a little on the brakes still) and WOAH! idiot came out of nowhere driving in the opposite direction, crossing the road while still driving, in the middle of my lane in the curve. FUAAr#$#@.... i freaked, i thought the person took the turn WAY too wide, and didn't know if they were gonna pull off onto the side of the road, or pull back into their lane. to avoid a head on collision i slammed on the brakes, and i think there must have been a bit of a tank slapper, lost control of the front end, possibly locked the brakes... again... and went down down down... GRR!!!

i was like WTF!!! to the guy "YOU CANT CROSS THE ROAD LIKE THAT IN THE MIDDLE OF A DOUBLE CURVE!!!" and yanno what he replied; "but i always cross the road like that when im going home" sigh~ this country has like a quarter billion inhabitants, and just about everyone, drives a bike, and almost NO ONE knows how to drive.

its a fact of life here, and we have to come to accept it, and try to be aware of everything around us, to avoid getting into an accident. its really scary at times just how obliviously they drive.

those are 9 motorbike accidents i can think off~ most of them are things that have caught me off guard.

driving slower is generally a good start to avoiding accidents. however, its hard to apply that in practice... lol

[DarC]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

i thought and still think that i have a reasonably good understanding of bikes and handling them, been driving since over 12 years, but...

Originally Posted by wayanlam

* front tire blew out while overtaking a car, thankfully it was slow traffic, didnt really get hurt. in hind site, i learnt to pay more attention to the bike. i realized that the front tire was long due a replacement.

* kite string across the road caught me on the neck... definitely the most freaky accident ive had! i was going reasonably fast... possibly 50mph, saw the string a split second before it hit me, i took one hand to try and get it off, but it got tight, i panicked, couldn't stop fast enough with just one arm on the handlebars. lost control and crashed. ended up with a scar on my neck for a while due to the rope burn... urgh...

* follow up on the kite string... "sigh~" many years after that other accident, at lunch break from work, i was slowing down to stop at a take away to grab some food. there was a kite string hanging off a tree, and it smackd me in the face. must have been my fear/trauma of the damn thing, and i flinched and squeezed the brake harder, and the front wheel locked up... splat, uff...

* driving behind a friend at night after a rainstorm, the roads were dry, but suddenly there was a giant puddle on the road, cos there was some blockages in the sewer causing the rainwater to pool up on the road. my friend in front saw it and hit his brakes hard... i didnt react fast enough, braked, but by then we were on the slippery water, i skidded and ya... fell, lol

* took a turn with a friend on the back, who had very little riding experience, i went to lean, he counter leant, and the back wheel just slid out, i think the road condition was a little wet/moist. but not drenched... would have been fine on my own, or with someone in the back who knew not to fight the lean. uh... again learnt my lesson... drive like a snail with newbees on the back!

* driving at night through a road that i was not totally familiar with, was going too fast, and there was a really sharp 90 degree turn, didnt see it (roads here are barely ever lit, in this case i was on a totally dark unlit road) till it was too late, i wasn't able to slow down fast enough, came of the edge of the road, hit the gravel and stacked it. thankfully at that point i was doing about 5 mph... laid down the bike, and landed on my hands and feet. barely got hurt that time, ive hurt myself more falling while walking i think. anyhow, lesson... drive cautiously on new roads, ESPECIALLY when its pitch black, lol

* oh, my 1st ever accident... driving to a friends house from a party. a little tipsy at the time... anyhow, i sorta forgot where the house was, and i was driving in front of my friend, so i was looking to the side of the road trying to find the house, and WHAM... hit a double pot hole. doing maybe 10~15mph... landed on a heap on the side of the road. yeah... lesson... keep eyes on the road xD

* passing some cars at a red light, when the light just went green. idiot car pulled out to overtake another car when i was parallel to them. i was accelerating at that point, and he just drove me literally off the road and into the gutter. hit and run~ and no, he wasn't turning off, since the T junction was going the other way. basically they didnt look in the mirror, or i was just in their blind spot.

* the last accident which was on my poor ninja 250. driving to the bank, just cruising on a basically empty road (empty on my side). and there is a small S curve, just as i was about to enter the double curve (getting ready to lean in, a little on the brakes still) and WOAH! idiot came out of nowhere driving in the opposite direction, crossing the road while still driving, in the middle of my lane in the curve. FUAAr#$#@.... i freaked, i thought the person took the turn WAY too wide, and didn't know if they were gonna pull off onto the side of the road, or pull back into their lane. to avoid a head on collision i slammed on the brakes, and i think there must have been a bit of a tank slapper, lost control of the front end, possibly locked the brakes... again... and went down down down... GRR!!!

Damn, you and gravity have it out for each other. Well that and some serious lack of judement.....



On topic, I find it good practice to slow at most intersections I come too just to give myself time to make sure ti is clear. We have a lot of 55mph roads with intersections and I usually clear them at around 35 and speed back up.

Rather than dipute the validity of the research maybe some people should just take the advice to slow down and pay attention to what the heck you and others are doing....

[wayanlam]

yeah, im like that damn apple that sparked the idea of the gravitational theory... i keep falling

[DarC]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

yeah, im like that damn apple that sparked the idea of the gravitational theory... i keep falling

Just yell "gravity burst!" next time it happens so people will know where to place the blame.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by phr3ek

what type of bike did they get those numbers from?

stopping distance can be reduced with lighter bikes, better brake components, better tires and ABS

i personally dont bother with statistics, there are just too many factors that may not have been covered
i just go by personal experience, i know how much braking force i can apply before having the rear end slide, and i know how to control a fishtailing bike

According to the guy who did the calculator, there is fairly little difference between bikes that matters. Most bikes have brakes that are capable of lock up of the wheels, so the real limiter is the tire. Motorcycle tires can, normally, provide about 1.1g of traction. That is, they can handle a deceleration rate of slightly more than 32.2 ft/sec/sec without beginning to skid. In order to stop in the fastest possible time and shortest possible distance, you need to apply enough braking force via your front brake lever and rear brake pedal to overcome the momentum of all of that mass and slow it down as close to 1.1 g as you can manage. And while there is a slight variation with tires (race tires can handle about 1.3g, for example), for most bikes the differences in bikes is going to be overcome by differences in rider skill and reaction time, which create such huge fluctuations in stopping distance that it really doesn't make sense to tinker with the stopping distances to change a few feet here and there by changing the calculator for different bikes.

As for bike weight mattering, it is a myth. While counter-intuitive, heavier bikes still have (for the most part) sufficient braking power to lock up the wheels. Heavier weight just means you need more pressure on the brakes to achieve the same stopping power. This is because heavier weight bikes offer increased friction that balances out the increased momentum of the bike. (F = mu*N where F = frictional force (braking force between the tyres and the road), mu = friction co-efficient (changes based on road/tyre condition), N = normal force (force acting directly downwards with gravity i.e., the mass of the bike and rider). Think of it this way: It takes more energy to stop a heavier bike than it does a lighter one, but at the same time your traction increases so that you can use that necessary additional braking energy without resulting in a skid. The added weight (so long as it is within normal limits) self cancels itself - because the brakes ARE (with a few exceptions) adequate. Its the tires that stop you. Again, reaction time and rider vigilance are going to be the big variations to care about, not the difference in bikes.

The larger point is that regardless of bike, small increases in speed result in large changes in your stopping distance. And (I've tried this on multiple bikes) around 30MPH (give or take) the distances become critical when one considers intersection width. You can pay attention to the statistics or not, but they can be instructive in determining how to lower the risks of riding. And it is pretty intuitive that if you need to stop better in the highest danger area, an intersection, a solution is to be more vigilant and go slower in the intersection. 30MPH, give or take depending on minor variations in bike tires and rider skill, seems like a good general target. That is all I'm saying.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

i thought and still think that i have a reasonably good understanding of bikes and handling them, been driving since over 12 years, but... there are just too many factors that can and will be totally unexpected, which could easily cause an accident.

obviously practice is the best way to learn, driving cautiously (such as taking an intersection at no more than 30mph) definitely helps im certain of it. but no matter how cautious and how much experience one has... accidents can still happen.

I love your posts, and the honesty of them. Not just in this thread but others. So I don't want to be critical, but most of the accidents you have been in were totally avoidable with more caution. The type of accidents (for the most part) cut against what you are saying in this quoted portion about there being nothing you can do. Knowingly riding on a bad tire, drinking and driving, driving too fast on unfamiliar unlit road at night, riding in wet without prepping the newb on back, etc. You could have avoided these.

A couple of yours seemed truly unavoidable, which is maybe what you were saying. If so, then I think we're on the same page. We can really reduce the risks of riding by taking a few simple steps, but we can't eliminate the risks completely. You never know when an unseeable kite string is going to clothesline you ( Crazy that happened to you! Twice!). Even if you are going 30 into an intersection - the car make pull into your side instead of in front of you and leave you less than the required 37 feet to stop.

But why not eliminate the easy accidents to avoid? My goal in this thread is to target the most common accident where the fault, theoretically, lies with the car. Even in those cases, we can make a big impact in our own safety by slowing down heading into an intersection and being more vigilant. Doing 30mph through an intersection with cars potentially pulling out seems like a good safety technique.

[wayanlam]

i would say ive done quite a lot of "trial and error" to figure out a lot of thing that i should not do, lol

even after so many accidents i have always gone back to ride again. i am fully aware that in most cases, it would have been avoidable had i taken more precaution. the most simple/straightforward precaution out there i believe is to drive slower, there is no denying that, at least imo. but even knowing that, as i said... its hard to apply it in practice

but the people that deny this, and claim they can drive 100+mph "safely", will eventually be sorely, or deadly mistaken... or as in this discussion, 30+mph through intersections.

there is just that little beast in us all that likes the feeling of acceleration and adrenaline... sigh~ at least im not jumping off cliffs... although they probably have less accidents than me, at the rate im going, haha

[Liber]

Though I'm not disputing the findings, yet, I'm pretty sure with proper breaking() technique it doesn't take half a football field to stop a ninjette going 60mph. I've never had the tools to measure this, but there is a new high school parking lot that isn't being used yet that should give me enough room to test it out. If I am able to try it out this weekend, I'll report back, maybe with vid/pics

[rockNroll]

slowing down for no reason apparent to the car behind me puts me in harm's way right then. everyone is tail gating and everyone wants to get around. i'm slowing to the safe 30mph while the cage behind me is accelerating to make sure he/she makes the light.

just take care of what traffic around you is doing.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

* kite string across the road caught me on the neck... definitely the most freaky accident ive had! i was going reasonably fast... possibly 50mph, saw the string a split second before it hit me, i took one hand to try and get it off, but it got tight, i panicked, couldn't stop fast enough with just one arm on the handlebars. lost control and crashed. ended up with a scar on my neck for a while due to the rope burn... urgh...

* follow up on the kite string... "sigh~" many years after that other accident, at lunch break from work, i was slowing down to stop at a take away to grab some food. there was a kite string hanging off a tree, and it smackd me in the face. must have been my fear/trauma of the damn thing, and i flinched and squeezed the brake harder, and the front wheel locked up... splat, uff...

Wow... 2 downs due to kite string, that has to be the most bizzar stuff I have ever heard. And coming from someone who as been attacked by owls 3 times in my life.

Seriously who wrecks 2 times because kite string, and who gets attacked by owls 3 times?!?!?!?!!?!?!?

[ducducgooseit]

With more folks joining the ninjette.org eventually there should be enough people with crashes that there will be some REALLY strange events.

I look forward to reading about them.

[Liber]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

slowing down for no reason apparent to the car behind me puts me in harm's way right then. everyone is tail gating and everyone wants to get around. i'm slowing to the safe 30mph while the cage behind me is accelerating to make sure he/she makes the light.

just take care of what traffic around you is doing.

that's a good point. After reading your comment, I realize that I try to do the same thing.

[nickjpass]

So many smart people on this forum.

[Liber]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

So many smart people on this forum.

Or, maybe you are just really really dumb?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Liber

Or, maybe you are just really really dumb?

That's possible too

[GeorgiaHooligan]

hurt report needs to be updated, it's as old as your grandma

[Clearlynotstefan]

While I generally agree with your post, I'd like to point out that those extra feet you've saved by coming in at 30mph are irrelevant if the car pulls out 2 seconds later. The physics of it is fabulous in an ideal world in which the old lady blows the intersection at the exact same time every day, but that's not the case. While obviously slow speed will account for greater reaction time relative to the distance of the obstacle, the distance between your bike and the obstacle is literally a game of chance. You could have sneezed before you put on your helmet, and had an extra 2 seconds to react lol. The point is I agree with the general theme of your post, but I feel including exact physics and figures promotes the illusion that there's a high degree of science in PREVENTING accidents. In my opinion, science kicks in DURING the emergency, when you realize you have half an intersection to figure something out. Assuming the car running the intersection is a random event, your just as likely to get t-boned at 30, as you are to get cut off at 50 lol

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

While I generally agree with your post, I'd like to point out that those extra feet you've saved by coming in at 30mph are irrelevant if the car pulls out 2 seconds later. The physics of it is fabulous in an ideal world in which the old lady blows the intersection at the exact same time every day, but that's not the case. While obviously slow speed will account for greater reaction time relative to the distance of the obstacle, the distance between your bike and the obstacle is literally a game of chance. You could have sneezed before you put on your helmet, and had an extra 2 seconds to react lol. The point is I agree with the general theme of your post, but I feel including exact physics and figures promotes the illusion that there's a high degree of science in PREVENTING accidents. In my opinion, science kicks in DURING the emergency, when you realize you have half an intersection to figure something out. Assuming the car running the intersection is a random event, your just as likely to get t-boned at 30, as you are to get cut off at 50 lol

Obviously, I've set up camp on the far side of the realm of reality from you lol, I was merely making the point that there's no magic number. We haven't (and couldn't) take into consideration the other peoples reaction to the situation, getting rear ended, the obstacle slamming on the brakes, or panicking and accelerating, etc.

The point is you can't predict what's going to happen on the road, not with physics, magic, or anything else, so keep your eyes open for the indicators of an impending situation, practice your emergency stops, and wear some damn good gear

[nickjpass]

No magic speed in this accident

Link to original page on YouTube.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by Liber

Or, maybe you are just really really dumb?

I agree x]

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

Obviously, I've set up camp on the far side of the realm of reality from you lol, I was merely making the point that there's no magic number. We haven't (and couldn't) take into consideration the other peoples reaction to the situation, getting rear ended, the obstacle slamming on the brakes, or panicking and accelerating, etc.

Originally Posted by nickjpass

No magic speed in this accident

I've prattled on in probably 10 separate posts about how it doesn't do much good to be worried about getting rear ended. Those type of accidents account for an incredibly small portion of all motorcycle accidents, and there is little you can do about it. And yes, there are accidents that can't be avoided.

But those that can't be avoided are a really small percentage. You can't look at those and say that motorcycling is inherently dangerous or that you can't avoid accidents. You can. There is nothing you can do to eliminate risk. But you can manage it, reduce it. And you can reduce it by quite a lot. There are simple things that anyone can do to reduce your chances of an accident. There are numerous studies on the causes of motorcycle accidents, and our biggest risk is our own bad riding and stupid decisions. Second biggest risk is a car pulling out on us.

So if we focus on those two things, we've eliminated something like 80% of all motorcycle accidents. Pretty good, right? In my opinion, the best way to avoid the "sorry I didn't see you" car pulling out accident is to be on the lookout, make yourself visible, and don't overdrive your stopping distance. This is again just my opinion, but overdriving the stopping distance is the one most people don't do well, and one that can make up for other errors. By noting the incredible increases in stopping distance with comparatively small increases in speed, and noting the width of an intersection, I'm hoping to focus people on their need to control speed to control their ability to react to traffic.

Is that going to eliminate all accidents? No, it won't. And it won't even eliminate all the "sorry I didn't see you accidents." Someone can still pull into your side with no time to slow at all. But it will help quite a bit in an area that people tend to think is out of their control, and help reduce one of the major causes of accidents, and that is a pretty good thing.

[LazinCajun]

Great OP Floyd

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

While I generally agree with your post, I'd like to point out that those extra feet you've saved by coming in at 30mph are irrelevant if the car pulls out 2 seconds later. The physics of it is fabulous in an ideal world in which the old lady blows the intersection at the exact same time every day, but that's not the case. While obviously slow speed will account for greater reaction time relative to the distance of the obstacle, the distance between your bike and the obstacle is literally a game of chance. You could have sneezed before you put on your helmet, and had an extra 2 seconds to react lol. The point is I agree with the general theme of your post, but I feel including exact physics and figures promotes the illusion that there's a high degree of science in PREVENTING accidents. In my opinion, science kicks in DURING the emergency, when you realize you have half an intersection to figure something out. Assuming the car running the intersection is a random event, your just as likely to get t-boned at 30, as you are to get cut off at 50 lol

This is nonsense. Thinking like this, why wouldn't you go through every intersection as quickly as possible? Going 150mph leaves you in the intersection for the least amount of time, reducing the chance of you being in the intersection when she pulls out!

The point is to reduce risk. If you're going slower, it takes less distance to stop, and as Floyd pointed out, dramatically less distance. From the basic motion equations in physics 101, for constant acceleration (which is true to a pretty good approximation), stopping distance increases like speed squared. By slowing down a bit before hitting an intersection, you're giving yourself a *lot* more room and time to stop in case something happens. Additionally, since that parabola is steeper as speed increases, having a slightly smaller starting speed makes a bigger difference than you might think.

Since (as you pointed out) you can't predict when somebody will pull out in front of you, it makes sense to give yourself the biggest cushion. In some crazy world, if you did know exactly when she'd pull out every day in your example, then by all means speed up to not have to deal with it.

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

No magic speed in this accident

(video)

Holy )$(*&%)($*%, did that guy stay on his feet?

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by Ren13

The dude got so lucky. the way his bike got his, it like ejected him instead of crushing him.

What a dumbass lady.

License should be taken until she can prove she can actually DRIVE A CAR. If that happened to me, I'd be livid. I don't know what I'd do.

I love how the guy was so calm, and then when the lady came to hug him, he just walks away lol.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Is that going to eliminate all accidents? No, it won't. And it won't even eliminate all the "sorry I didn't see you accidents." Someone can still pull into your side with no time to slow at all. But it will help quite a bit in an area that people tend to think is out of their control, and help reduce one of the major causes of accidents, and that is a pretty good thing.

[sneak78]

Believe me he's not calm, he's shocked.
I heard so many stories like the one shot in this video, grand ma crashing in the bike at a traffic light and saying "ho I didn't see you, I'm so sorry...".
People don't search to see bikes on the road, they try to see cars, I hope you see what I mean, you see what you are attending to see, if not prepared, then you won't even notice their is a bike right in the middle of your sight.
So **** it, I know I look selfish and all but when I stop at the red light, I pass by the car, stop at the front of the queue and start first at green light, get away from traffic.

It happend to a friend of mine, he had an orange ER6N, he yelled at the grand ma "what color should I have been for you to see me" and struggled with himself not to punch her. So my green bike won't save me and I know it. Nether will high visibility jackets like the one our government wants us to wear (in france). I own a high visibility vest (berring akkor) and wear it all winter and when it rains a lot (that's my warmer and most impermeable motorbike vest), it's OK when rainy or foggy but when stopped behind another car, in good visibility conditions, when the driver behind should have seen you jacket or not, it won't help.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by sneak78

It happend to a friend of mine, he had an orange ER6N, he yelled at the grand ma "what color should I have been for you to see me" and struggled with himself not to punch her. So my green bike won't save me and I know it. Nether will high visibility jackets like the one our government wants us to wear (in france). I own a high visibility vest (berring akkor) and wear it all winter and when it rains a lot (that's my warmer and most impermeable motorbike vest), it's OK when rainy or foggy but when stopped behind another car, in good visibility conditions, when the driver behind should have seen you jacket or not, it won't help.

I don't agree, because it will help. There isn't a way to eliminate risk, but you can reduce it. A pretty good study on clothing color found that wearing hi vis reduced your chances of an accident by 37%. That doesn't mean you'll be guaranteed that grandma will see you if you have that vest on, but it does mean she is more likely to. Sure, you might still get hit, but you are much safer than the guy not wearing the vest. Seems to me that if you can, with a single decision, reduce your accident risk by nearly 40% without doing anything else to your skill set, it is a pretty good idea to do it.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Ren13

The dude got so lucky. the way his bike got his, it like ejected him instead of crushing him.

What a dumbass lady.

License should be taken until she can prove she can actually DRIVE A CAR. If that happened to me, I'd be livid. I don't know what I'd do.

The way he was bent over afterwords, not communicating and fumbling to the road side; I'd say he got winded pretty hard when he smacked into the back of the vehicle in front. He was probably in shock too - it happened so quick.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

.......According to the Motorcycle Stopping Distance Calculator, it takes 150 feet to stop from 60mph, 66 feet to stop from 40mph, and 37 feet to stop from 30MPH. Think about those numbers for a minute -- small increases in speed have a huge impact in the distance we can stop.

And when one compares those stopping distances with the width of a standard intersection, an easy solution presents itself. A typical small intersection is 48 feet wide. Slowing down from 40 mph takes 66 feet, but slowing down from 30 mph takes only 37 feet. So how do we improve our chances of avoiding the most common type of motorcycle accident? Slow down to 30 approaching an intersection where a car might pull out in front of you, and give yourself the space to stop in time.

A must read post for any rider.

From a different point of view:

At high speeds, like on a highway, evasive maneuvers (combined with slowing down if applicable) may be more effective than attempting a quick stop.

Cars following too close and at high speeds (probably with inattentive drivers) is an additional negative factor against attempting a quick stop there.

[lgk]

yea, i'm more worried about the "smidsey" and being rear ended.

look at it this way, you can place yourself at the edge of a lane and avoid most taking on most of the force during a rear end collision.

t boning a car you apply 100% of the force to your bike. any energy not captured by your body is used to throw you across the pavement.
almost the same as hitting a 3ft high brick wall, bad times.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by akima

The way he was bent over afterwords, not communicating and fumbling to the road side; I'd say he got winded pretty hard when he smacked into the back of the vehicle in front. He was probably in shock too - it happened so quick.

getting launched like that is bad for your discs.
he will have back problems later in life...

[nickjpass]

@lgk However if you brake hard enough, not all energy goes into the car. Some into the ground . I think?

[lgk]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

@lgk However if you brake hard enough, not all energy goes into the car. Some into the ground . I think?

isolating the force when you hit the car means, the braking loss are already included.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

I don't agree, because it will help. There isn't a way to eliminate risk, but you can reduce it. A pretty good study on clothing color found that wearing hi vis reduced your chances of an accident by 37%. That doesn't mean you'll be guaranteed that grandma will see you if you have that vest on, but it does mean she is more likely to. Sure, you might still get hit, but you are much safer than the guy not wearing the vest. Seems to me that if you can, with a single decision, reduce your accident risk by nearly 40% without doing anything else to your skill set, it is a pretty good idea to do it.

The thing I like the most about your posts is, at least the way I read them, the onus of safety and accident avoidance lay firmly in the rider's hands. While a small percentage of accidents the rider can do nothing to avoid it seems that the majority of accident types the rider can actively mitigate the risk.

[nickjpass]

I think I understand lol!

[ai4px]

A word about helmet color choice... I intentionally selected a silver helmet so I could be seen. Then after having it long enough to get the new smell out of it, my wife tells me that it blends in with the sky on cloudy days. White or any other solid bright color would have been better.

[JA-Moo]

A few safety tips I have learned over the last 40 years of riding, I'm sure some of these have been posted before, but this is my list.

1. Stay away from the center of the lane at intersections, that's where oil drips and gets super slick, especially if it has rained. I usually just always stay away from the center of the lane anyway.

2. When coming to a stop, or slowing in traffic, (like in the vid) do a quick look in the mirror, and look for an escape route, right or left if there is a vehicle in front of you.

3. Always "expect" someone to not stop at a light or stop sign.

4. Always ride with 2 fingers on the clutch and brake levers. The few milliseconds it take to move your fingers from the grip to the lever is quite a few rolling feet, and the difference between hitting something or just stopping.

5. Never take off first from a stop light if there are multiple lanes and a car next to you, drivers see cars first.

6. Unless I can see a good distance with cross traffic, I always slow for intersections.

7. Watch behind you if you are stopping at an intersection where there is a long line of cars, people don't process stopped cars so far away from the actual intersection. Stay as far to the left or right as you can. Also when taking off in a long line of traffic, again, people are looking at the green light, not the line of cars.

8. For general riding, my riding mentor told me when I first started riding, that it doesn't matter if a car is in a yard with no wheels, or a concrete barrier between opposing traffic, or someone looks you straight in the eye, every vehicle out there is just trying to run your ass over. Ride like you are invisible.......

[7oxSin]

Originally Posted by JA-Moo

A few safety tips I have learned over the last 40 years of riding, I'm sure some of these have been posted before, but this is my list.

1. Stay away from the center of the lane at intersections, that's where oil drips and gets super slick, especially if it has rained. I usually just always stay away from the center of the lane anyway.

2. When coming to a stop, or slowing in traffic, (like in the vid) do a quick look in the mirror, and look for an escape route, right or left if there is a vehicle in front of you.

3. Always "expect" someone to not stop at a light or stop sign.

4. Always ride with 2 fingers on the clutch and brake levers. The few milliseconds it take to move your fingers from the grip to the lever is quite a few rolling feet, and the difference between hitting something or just stopping.

5. Never take off first from a stop light if there are multiple lanes and a car next to you, drivers see cars first.

6. Unless I can see a good distance with cross traffic, I always slow for intersections.

7. Watch behind you if you are stopping at an intersection where there is a long line of cars, people don't process stopped cars so far away from the actual intersection. Stay as far to the left or right as you can. Also when taking off in a long line of traffic, again, people are looking at the green light, not the line of cars.

8. For general riding, my riding mentor told me when I first started riding, that it doesn't matter if a car is in a yard with no wheels, or a concrete barrier between opposing traffic, or someone looks you straight in the eye, every vehicle out there is just trying to run your ass over. Ride like you are invisible.......

dont forget number 9, the golden rule...


Avoid kite string like an aids spitting flamethrower!