DIY- Removing the Snorkel

[greatwhiteninja]

im about to try this on mine.. so if im understanding this correctly, to do the shims just pull the black cap off the carb and the needle just pulls right out of the carb? then just slide 2 washers on and reinstall, repeat for other one? im at sea level with stock exhaust, so 2 shims would be about right for my setup with snorkel removed?

[LoneRonin]

Originally Posted by greatwhiteninja

im about to try this on mine.. so if im understanding this correctly, to do the shims just pull the black cap off the carb and the needle just pulls right out of the carb? then just slide 2 washers on and reinstall, repeat for other one? im at sea level with stock exhaust, so 2 shims would be about right for my setup with snorkel removed?

the needle doesn't just pull out...you'll see it sitting in there and then use some tweezers to grab its head and pull it out. then put the two washers with a little bit of vaseline so they stick and don't fall into the carb when you put the needle back in.

[greatwhiteninja]

yeah i got it.. went to radioshack and picked up the washers and tore it all apart.. makes a noticeable difference , nice mod!

[bettysmith]

Hey Kkim, would you be able to upload the pictures again? I'm looking to do this mod in a few days and while I'm sure I could manage without them, I love to get a look at things before doing it.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by bettysmith

Hey Kkim, would you be able to upload the pictures again? I'm looking to do this mod in a few days and while I'm sure I could manage without them, I love to get a look at things before doing it.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...0&postcount=77

[bettysmith]

Originally Posted by kkim

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...0&postcount=77

Ah! Thank you much.

[kkim]

have you/are you going to shim your needles or install a jet kit?

[bettysmith]

The plan is to shim my needles with two washers each.
Posted via Mobile Device

[EsrTek]

reviving this thread, instead of making a whole new topic.. as my question pertains to this exact topic.

After removing snorkel (no, I did not shim (yet)... if it even needs it?)
I am feeling a lot more heat on my inner thigh coming directly from that area.
Is that normal?

Also how exactly do I tell if I need to shim my needles?
I see no signs of it running rich or lean now (seemed a bit rich to begin with). http://www.ninja250forum.com/forum/i...p?topic=3784.0
Bike seems to run great now, power kicks in about 4-4.5k rpm and pulls harder throughout all gears. Idle to warm up now is smoother, needs 0 choke and ready to take off in >2 mins.

The snorkel only seems to restrict a minimal amount of air from the 3" hole (there's only a small thin piece of rubber seperating it in to 2 'ports').
It's seems more of it's purpose then would be to direct where the air comes in from.?.

[ejlover]

I also have a Fuel Injected 2011 Ninja250R. What will happen if I remove the snorkel?

As long as I know it won't have a negative effect, because ECU controls the amount of air needed. It may only help to get the needed amount easier when needed. Right?

And removing the snorkel would result in water to get into the box? It may be dangerous..

Thanks

[choneofakind]

As for water, general consensus is no, it won't get in.

I'm pretty sure the ECU controls the amount of fuel going into the cylinders, not the air at all. It just measures the temp of the air.

As for actually removing the snorkel, someone did it. I believe it's earlier in the thread, but i might be wrong.

let me search a little for it here...

*edit*
so apparently I was thinking about the Kleen Air system removal. Someone did a DIY on how to do that with an EFI 250R.
If you want to do it to your EFI ninja, do it. The mix might be rich enough that the snorkel removal will lean it out. The mix might be so spot on that taking off the snorkel makes it too lean. I really don't know. Try it. The worst thing that happens is you would have to put the snorkel back on, or get a powercommander. Only way you'll know if it works is if someone tries and posts up with results.
*/edit*

[ejlover]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

As for water, general consensus is no, it won't get in.

I'm pretty sure the ECU controls the amount of fuel going into the cylinders, not the air at all. It just measures the temp of the air.

As for actually removing the snorkel, someone did it. I believe it's earlier in the thread, but i might be wrong.

let me search a little for it here...

*edit*
so apparently I was thinking about the Kleen Air system removal. Someone did a DIY on how to do that with an EFI 250R.
If you want to do it to your EFI ninja, do it. The mix might be rich enough that the snorkel removal will lean it out. The mix might be so spot on that taking off the snorkel makes it too lean. I really don't know. Try it. The worst thing that happens is you would have to put the snorkel back on, or get a powercommander. Only way you'll know if it works is if someone tries and posts up with results.
*/edit*

Yeah I also couldn't find it Okey then I think I'll be the one who will test and share results I'll post back the results soon. Thanks.

[hackeron]

Originally Posted by ejlover

Yeah I also couldn't find it Okey then I think I'll be the one who will test and share results I'll post back the results soon. Thanks.

Please post your results as I'm interested in trying this too on my EFI ninja 250R

[choneofakind]

@hackeron

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94920

[trevor_shiggs]

I removed my snorkel today. When snapping the throttle from around 4000 RPM it seems like its bogging and will pick up slightly as I roll off the throttle. Noticed most in fifth and sixth. I don't remember it doing this before. I have a dan moto slip on and two washers under the needles. I am thinking I need to add a third? I tried putting the snorkel back in but that was a PITA. My air filter is pretty dirty too so I will be cleaning that tomorrow. I will measure the thickness of the washers tomorrow, I need to bring my micrometer home. I was also thinking about drilling my slides while I am adding another washer. Would you say that I need to add another washer? And should I do my slides while I am in there? Thanks

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by trevor_shiggs

I removed my snorkel today. When snapping the throttle from around 4000 RPM it seems like its bogging and will pick up slightly as I roll off the throttle. Noticed most in fifth and sixth. I don't remember it doing this before. I have a dan moto slip on and two washers under the needles. I am thinking I need to add a third? I tried putting the snorkel back in but that was a PITA. My air filter is pretty dirty too so I will be cleaning that tomorrow. I will measure the thickness of the washers tomorrow, I need to bring my micrometer home. I was also thinking about drilling my slides while I am adding another washer. Would you say that I need to add another washer? And should I do my slides while I am in there? Thanks

I have the same setup essentially, except I removed 1 washer after removing the snorkel - so the needles are only shimmed with 1 washer, and I don't really notice any problems.

[aShifty]

Hmmm. so is their a place i can learn about shimming needles or whatever needs to be done so it doesnt run lean. im interested in doing this mod in the future is why im asking. I learned about carburetors but it was about a year ago and i thought it was pointless cuz FI... (stupid stupid stupid me. look at me now.)

Nvm! I found the link in the DIY section a out shimming. Ima read up on it!

[kawaninja09]

so i was wondering if you install a K&n high flow air filter should you remove the snorkel since the filter already increases air flow? thinking about shimming the needles i have a mpg growler slip on muffler with a k&n air filter and wanted to shimm to make sure im not running to lean. So my next question is how many washers should i start off with to see where i need to be

[choneofakind]

@kawaninja09

Remove snorkel or else that K&N won't do squat.

Try 2 washers, see how it feels and go from there. If I were you, I would first test a pair of Keihin 100 main jets to see if the top end improves or not. No reason to not double check that you have the right size main jets when the main jets are cheap.

[kawaninja09]

thank you so much for the info i found a mech. thats gonna jet the carbs for me and make sure it set up with the right ratios. but ill probally remove the snorkel when i put the filter in.

[ricomtzjr]

Pleanty of information on this forum...I am glad I joined.

I will also be doing some mods this weekend. At 3800 ft altitude with dry dusty conditions, 30-40s mornings and 60-70s afternoons, the bike has a slight hiccup on takeoff and great top end when cold. Once at operating temperature, the bottom end smooths out and the top end seems to be a little more limited than when cold.

Starting with a shim, and maybe later with the snorkel.

[Somchai]

as an information about the 250R-EFI some guys in Germany removed their snorkel and had to put it back on because the bikes were running like s**t.

[choneofakind]

Did they change their fuel maps? If not, it's not surprising they ran like crap.

Leo Vince suggests modifying the air box on the EFI bikes with a pair of 50mm diameter holes, along with using their exhaust system and piggyback ECU.

I know my bike runs well with a K&N pod filter and longer runners from the pod to the TB's

[ricomtzjr]

So I took off my snorkel at lunch today and tested it out. At 65 degrees and virtually zero humidity, the top end seemed like heaven...though the bottom end seemed to hesitate a little more than usual, kind of like a turbo spooling up. I'll be shimming this weekend. Love the throaty sound now.

[ricomtzjr]

Snorkel off really leaned out the lower end all the way up to about 6k rpm. I could hear the engine really struggling below 6k rpm at any speed. Once I would get to highway speeds, everything was great, just getting there felt like I was hauling a trailer behind.

Today I installed two washers under each needle. Started it up and it needed a little choke, but not much and definitely not as long. I'll be getting on it soon to see where I am at on tuning.

[ricomtzjr]

The past two days since the shimming and snorkel removal have been amazing. Response is smoother and virtually immediate with throttle opening. Power lasts all the way to the top of the rev range. I am gonna ride these mods for a while until I decide where I want to go next with it.

[dbznatic]

Thank you so much for this! I had the needles shimmed and with the slip on its running and idling PERFECT now with the snorkel gone. It was running good before, but now the air/fuel ratio is perfect! Got a nice little extra pull after about 4-5 grand too! Thanks a bunch!

[Joshorilla]

I've got my filter out to clean it, soaked it in petrol then washed it out with water and dish soap.

I may do this when I pop it back in!

[Joshorilla]

I loved the clean air filter, the bike idled better, had better throttle response, more pull from the low end, it jus ran better, moreover how it should run.

So, I popped out the snorkle, performance wasn't noticably changed, maybe worse, I think for the extra noise my brain can't understand why that doesn't make it faster so it feels slower, but from clock watching it seems to be a tad faster.

What I liked, the noise, you slam the throttle wide open from 4krpm, and it BARKS! Took me back the first time I did it, I even made some german tourists just a bloody mile by doing it as I rode past, I guess the extra combustion takes a few seconds to spin the engine to where it wants to be and it creates a pressure in the air box making it woof, but it was nice.

What I didn't like was the extra noise, seemed excessive, I would want to wear plugs if I did this, and I don't.

What I observed, performance, maybe a little, no more popping of unburnt fuel on deceleration this just didn't happen so I guess it's now fully lean, although it didn't run any hotter from the temp gauge, if anything slightly cooler.

As always, YMMV, this is applicable to the fuel injected version, carbed bikes will perform slightly differently.

[20Ninja09]

What is shimming? And where and what are you doing it too? I just got a 2009 ninja 250R with a two brothers exhaust. Id like to remove the snorkel but only if its not going to eff up the bike

[Joshorilla]

Originally Posted by 20Ninja09

What is shimming? And where and what are you doing it too? I just got a 2009 ninja 250R with a two brothers exhaust. Id like to remove the snorkel but only if its not going to eff up the bike

This is shimming.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[20Ninja09]

Lol no dont believe that is

[JosueDG]

Originally Posted by Joshorilla

This is shimming.

Link to original page on YouTube.

LMFAO!

[EVINRUDE]

Update: it is very easy to remove/install the snorkel with the battery and battery box removed. Running a GIVI case on the rear seat and didn't want to remove it and the mount. Did some investigating and there is enough room with the battery & box removed to have a party in there. 5 min max out or in.
I had everything else removed to do the valve check.

[gantt]

thanks for the write up!! this is on my list to do.

[erikhortsch]

would removing the snorkel without any other modifications help for high altitude riding? sounds like this might be a quick solution instead of rejetting to ride pikes peak and mt evans

[Flying]

It won't help much and might actually be detrimental. Removing the snorkel only gets a little bit more air in and isn't a substitute for proper jetting.

[erikhortsch]

Originally Posted by Flying

It won't help much and might actually be detrimental. Removing the snorkel only gets a little bit more air in and isn't a substitute for proper jetting.

i've never been exposed to altitude situations before but logic says that removing the snorkel to encourage more air is nothing but helpful. any help on why it may be a bad thing?

thanks

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by erikhortsch

i've never been exposed to altitude situations before but logic says that removing the snorkel to encourage more air is nothing but helpful. any help on why it may be a bad thing?

thanks

I am not sure what year of 250 you have, but these bikes run pretty lean out of the box. Allowing more air without enriching the mix isn't on the plus side of things. However, many have had good results from a snorkel delete along with needle shims. YMMV due to altitude. Do a search for "jetting database", it should yield some helpful info.

[Sound Wave]

Originally Posted by erikhortsch

would removing the snorkel without any other modifications help for high altitude riding? sounds like this might be a quick solution instead of rejetting to ride pikes peak and mt evans

I live near sea level, so I don't know. Still, I don't think that just removing the snorkel would be of much help.