Black Ice - 1, Ninja 1000 - 0

[Bigballsofpaint]

Pics Below

To start, IMHO i think the only thing i could have done differently was stay home or take the cage. It was 34 at my house in the morning and its going to end up in the 50's. So i have my heated gear and i can ride anything over 30, so i wanted to take the bike in. The 1000 has a lot better wind coverage and its what i have my electric for the gloves hooked up to, so thats my go to bike for cold weather and touring.

I forgot it rained all day yesterday and theres still snow on the ground up here, but i decided i would go anyway. I didnt want to take the highway since its still dark when i leave, i didnt want to deal with traffic and cagers arent looking for bikes right now, so the back roads i go. I got about halfway, so about 20 minutes in and i know the roads so i was going normal pace. I know the curves up ahead and its cold so i slow down to the speed limit, coming around i hit a small patch of ice, the back end kicks out a little bit. I was able to correct it, straighten the bike and slow down a bit, im guessing between 35 and 40. Its still a curve so i lean again and then there it is, black ice over both lanes, about 15 feet long, I had to turn otherwise im running right into a rock wall, so i turned as little as possible, no brakes, no gas, still no good. Back end goes around, lowside on the right, im sliding face first watching my bike the entire time getting farther away. Helpless feeling for sure.

So i stop sliding, adrenalin is surely going through me, i run over, pick my tankbag off the roads, see headights and wave so that they notice me and dont hit me. Get to the bike and pick it up. Arg, engine cover has a hole in it, theres all my oil running down the road. Right fairing is scraped up, turning signal broke, brake level broke, bar end broke. Scratched exhaust, but thats really all i was able to see. All in all im not mad really, me and the bike just slid, no rolling, no guardrail, it went down end the end of the corner so we just went straight.

I know most important is that im fine, all my gear held up perfectly, aside form my pajama pants (which were over my drayko pants). Helmet definitly slid on the pavement which i do remember, it didnt slam down but its scratched all up. The gloves and jacket didnt wear through but ill check more when i go home. I made all the insurance calls and what not and then came to work for a half day, so when i get home ill get pics. My pants held up great, not even a rip, theres a small spec wear it wore a little but im so glad i got these draykos for christmas. For sure getting another pair. The only piece of gear i dont have is shoes, and since i didnt slide into anything my feet and shoes were fine, but they will be bought very soon. Ill get pics later, and im definitely keeping the N1k, i love the bike too much, i should be able to fix it all myself and hopefully the insurance covers everything. Cops wrote it up as slippery conditions, hit black ice and speed was not a factor, so ill see what happens.

Ill still ride in the cold, im not going to beat myself up since i feel there wasnt much i could do other than not ride the bike or go a different route. Cars at least have 4 tires, we have 2 so we dont fair very well leaned over on ice i guess. Ill be taking the 250 out once i get home just to shake the jitters out. I would have ridden it to work but i didnt want to wear my helmet since i hear you shouldnt re use them after an accident. My gf wouldnt let me use her helmet since she didnt want me riding, but she said i could use it when i got home for a short ride. All in all it could be much worse, i can fix the bike and i feel fine other than feeling a little sore, im sure i pulled something or stretched it but nothing broke and no road rash. Pics to come! Sorry for the long post

[csmith12]

Bummer Jay

Wait until tomorrow (or even longer) to ensure you not sore anywhere. Things like that creep up when you try to do something different such as exercise.

Yay gear!

[lgk]

Glad your ok and the bike is repairable.

I'm real paranoid about ice, if i see snow, i'll assume ice is around the corner.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Ya i declined the ambulance but i told the guy i know in 2 days it will be a different story. My mom and sister are nurses. But nothing was broken, no road rash, my back neck and head are fine. My mom just called to make sure i didnt have a headache. I can feel my arm will be sore, but i dont think it will be too bad. Thanks chris

[psych0hans]

Major Bummer!!! Heal quick and Good luck getting the bike fixed up.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

..........Sorry for the long post

I appreciate the long post and the fact that damages were minimum.

How do you see black ice on the road? (Sorry fro the stupid question, I live in Florida).

[csmith12]

Never ridden on black ice, nor want to. In a car it's darn near invisible and you normally "feel it" before you see it. Otherwise it looks like a darker color of the road, normally mistaken for simple wet pavement.

[Bigballsofpaint]

I felt it first when i was able to correct it. Then i noticed the much larger patch of it and really just couldnt do anything. Going straight would have put me in a wall, breaking would have just locked everything up.

The road basically looks shiny, like its wet. It was a run off on a hill going across the street into the reservoir. Since i couldnt reach my gf to pick me up i was driving with the tow lady for over an hour picking up other cars who were in accidents from the black ice, so i didnt feel too horrible. A guy in a Ram 15 or 2500 did a 360 around a curve and his tire hit the curb and it literally ripped the wheel, drum, and spindle right off the truck.

[dfox]

This is a tough time of year for bikes in NE. Cold mornings followed by warm afternoons. I take the conservative approach and drive if there's any water on the road in these temps. It's either frozen, or has lots of salt in it.

Glad to hear you're alright, but get back on the horse!

[Jiggles]

Time for a K1300S!

I think the n1k is prone to sliding on the oil case like the r6 is prone to sliding on the tank. Mine didn't end up with a hole though but it was totaled from that.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Time for a K1300S!

I think the n1k is prone to sliding on the oil case like the r6 is prone to sliding on the tank. Mine didn't end up with a hole though

No beamer for me. The bike shouldnt be totaled out, so im just going to fix it and keep riding. Ill throw the frame sliders on now, and i know DM makes engine guard covers, their prices are out there though. I may consider it depending on what insurance does. Yours didnt get a hole in it because it never slid, you rammed the back of the car jiggles! The bike slid 50-100 feet, i slid about half of what the bike did.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

No beamer for me. The bike shouldnt be totaled out, so im just going to fix it and keep riding. Ill throw the frame sliders on now, and i know DM makes engine guard covers, their prices are out there though. I may consider it depending on what insurance does. Yours didnt get a hole in it because it never slid, you rammed the back of the car jiggles! The bike slid 50-100 feet, i slid about half of what the bike did.

My bike did slide, notice how it ended up hitting the median

[Jiggles]

Slid on the case and tank.



Most likely insurance will total your bike, you can always buy it back though

[Bigballsofpaint]

if they total it ill just go buy another one. My bank that my loan is through will actually give me 1,000 towards another bike if i buy it within 30 days. But since there was no impact, i doubt it will get totalled. It looks like 800-1000 worth of damage, then labor, and OEM inflation for parts possibly. So i could see damage being 4-5, the bikes is valued around 9,000, so it should be fine. I will update when i hear though, and when i get pictures.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Never ridden on black ice,

Nobody does for long, often it turns into a graceful road surfing experience within a few moments.

OP - glad you're safe! Yay gear.

(get boots! )

[LoneRonin]

Should have taken the highway...backroads early in the morning in cold temps are a bad idea. There is not enough traffic to melt the ice. On a highway there is a much greater volume of traffic and all those tires melt the ice quick.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

Should have taken the highway...backroads early in the morning in cold temps are a bad idea. There is not enough traffic to melt the ice. On a highway there is a much greater volume of traffic and all those tires melt the ice quick.

While i agree completely and know that, its also very congested and at times comes to a dead stop in certain areas for no reason. That coupled with it still being dark when i leave in the morning, i typically stay off the highway with drivers around here.

Alex, boots will be purchased for sure, i think they will actually cover my shoes, im taking all the pictures now to send off to the agent. They will cover all my gear they said, which is nice. But, they consider black ice at fault which sucks. She said its still cold out, so you knew the risk when you left your house. If it was the middle of summer she said i may have a case, i will call my actual agent about it since i didnt want to argue with the claim lady. Appraiser should call tomorrow and will see when he will look at the bike.

[Jiggles]

Hmm thats odd, I'm pretty sure Alex's insurance said black ice would be no fault for him.

Who do you have?

[Bigballsofpaint]

I have progressive, it could vary by state, but i did ask her that a couple times. I will be checking with my insurance agency though to verify.

Gear pics!

Jacket - notice where the circles are is where my tire pressure gauge is, thats the most damage to the jacket. The arm wasnt too bad at all



The drayko pants held up amazing, so glad my gf got them for x mas for me. I will be picking up another pair for sure as well as buying her a pair. I know they have no armor, but they really have great abrasion resistance.



The gerbing glove liners and Astart gloves didnt hold up as well as a i thought, but definitely good enough for me as i dont have a scratch on my hand. The wire got a bit chewed up on the liners and the actual gloves have a couple small holes.



The helmet did its job, no complaints but i would like to get one of the Bell helmets and try that transition lense for sure. I hear bell has come a long way and its main comlaints are similar to what the exo700 i had are, which is noise and weight.



And the one pair of gear i still need to improve on is the shoes, but the normal Pumas held up nice, although i doubt my foot dragged with that much force. Either way they didnt wear through so i cant be mad, will be getting the V2 flats though next.



Thanks for the kind words everyone, now i just have to wait a couple days to figure out what the appraiser is going to do with the bike, fingers crossed she isnt total'd out

[Redgeneral]

Sorry to hear about your crash. Glad you made it out with next to no injuries.

On a side note, I'm glad to see that Shift Avenger jacket held up well during the crash, as that is what I ride with as well.

Good peace of mind.

[Firehorse]

Wow, so glad you're okay!
Went through black ice and survived by two things: didn't know I was on it until it was almost over and made no reaction to it at all. If I had, it would have upset the balance and I would have been tree decoration.

Black ice looks black like wet pavement as stated but the way I find it here is to be aware of where the trees or buildings cast morning shade over the road and places like bridges that get humidity can be bad. If you get a millisecond to react before you hit it, keep straight up if you can and do nothing. No brakes no throttle no steering, nada. Apparently that was the only thing that saved my bacon.

Yea for gear! It's totally worth the two minutes it take eh?

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by Firehorse

Wow, so glad you're okay!
Went through black ice and survived by two things: didn't know I was on it until it was almost over and made no reaction to it at all. If I had, it would have upset the balance and I would have been tree decoration.

Black ice looks black like wet pavement as stated but the way I find it here is to be aware of where the trees or buildings cast morning shade over the road and places like bridges that get humidity can be bad. If you get a millisecond to react before you hit it, keep straight up if you can and do nothing. No brakes no throttle no steering, nada. Apparently that was the only thing that saved my bacon.

Yea for gear! It's totally worth the two minutes it take eh?

Heck ya for gear, i never needed it before this and was hoping i wouldnt ever need it, but it was worth every cent. Its nice that its covered on my policy too. This isnt my first run in with black ice sadly, but like you, all the other times was on a straight road, or a curve where i was able to stand the bike up for a short time and just coast, then continue my turn when i was over it. That wasnt an option yesterday sadly.

[Malicious Logic]

Glad to hear you're ok. Hopefully, you can get insurance sorted and get back out there soon. The one thing about all this that amazes me is what you were wearing. I'm apparently a big wuss in cold weather riding because I don't know how you were riding in jeans unless you had something under there. My legs are usually freezing!! Those pumas look about ankle high too, right? Lol, makes me cold just looking at it. I'm usually bundled up with layer upon layer if it's even below 50. IDK how you do it.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Glad to hear you're ok. Hopefully, you can get insurance sorted and get back out there soon. The one thing about all this that amazes me is what you were wearing. I'm apparently a big wuss in cold weather riding because I don't know how you were riding in jeans unless you had something under there. My legs are usually freezing!! Those pumas look about ankle high too, right? Lol, makes me cold just looking at it. I'm usually bundled up with layer upon layer if it's even below 50. IDK how you do it.

Heres the secret, im not on the 250 lol. The 1000 has a lot more wind deflection. I had a pair of pajama pants over those jeans, and they were tore up. When i only had the 250 i wouldnt go out when it was under 50. Now with the added wind protection, heated gloves and an extra pair of pajama pants over my riding jeans as long as its over 30 im fine. Next year i plan on grabbing the gerbing jacket and pants as well.

And ya the puma are under the ankle, not ideal by any means but the leather held up. Riding shoes have been on my list of things to get, and since now they should be covering my gear ill be picking up the Puma Flat v2. Reviews all state how comfortable they are, and they go just over the ankle with added support. I honestly wouldnt have had the Drayko jeans yet if my gf didnt get them for me for Xmas, so im very thankful for that. Now ill be buying her a pair for when we go on our trips.

I took the 250 out when i got home, used my Gfs helmet. Made sure to get back on 2 wheels ASAP. It was about 45, and it was cold, but i can last for the 15-20 min loop around the town. My work commute is 45min, too long to be that cold.

[250rr]

Sorry it had to happen, but glad you are fine!

[Miles_Prower]

Glad to hear you are ok. I honestly was thinking the exact same thing this morning before I grabbed my keys (took the bike anyways).."what if there is black ice?" I did see a patch of ice which I avoided, but I easily could have gone down on black ice somewhere else. I don't think I will risk it from now on, and this is a good reminder. Hope you get your baby patched up soon!

[nycsteve]

Sorry to hear this. I've had a few bouts with black ice, but nothing really huge or major. Most were straight. On the curved roads/turns, It wasn't to big of a deal because I can't lean the bike over much lol

[Bigballsofpaint]

Adjuster is going to look at the bike monday, ive priced out about 650 in my gear, and 2000 in OEM bike parts from what i can remember at the scene.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

Adjuster is going to look at the bike monday, ive priced out about 650 in my gear, and 2000 in OEM bike parts from what i can remember at the scene.

Don't forget to factor in labor costs!!

[Bigballsofpaint]

I know, thats why im waiting for their estimate. I figure if the total comes between 4 and 5k then its a fair estimate. Much more than that and im sure they will say its totaled, any less and i feel they are leaving things out and may look into fighting or bringing it to a dealer for an estimate.

[MegaManX]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

I know, thats why im waiting for their estimate. I figure if the total comes between 4 and 5k then its a fair estimate. Much more than that and im sure they will say its totaled, any less and i feel they are leaving things out and may look into fighting or bringing it to a dealer for an estimate.

You'd be surprised what can happen with insurance. My Duc had a blue book of $5k, avg street price of about $4500. High-sided on Decker Canyon, bike ended up in the gravelly side, damage was not all that bad (at first glance), with some torn up fairings and a bent rim.

Original estimate for damage was $1100, my deductible $500.

After about a week, the adjuster called and said the shop found more damage (exhaust and hangar, fork, some other stuff), and they would cut a supplemental check. The additional damage was $2500 worth!! Total of $3600-$500=$3100 from Insurance. Well over 50% - they didn't blink!

This was Geico, FWIW.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Appraiser called today and gave me an estimate of 4100 which is around what i figured. He said it all looks repairable to they dont think they will be totaling it out. Works out well for me since its all basically cosmetic aside from the hole in the cover. Ill start tearing it down and ordering parts once i get the confirmation they will be mailing me the check. Heres the pics

Dented gas tank, pretty small, dont know if i will fill and sand then use touch up paint, or just use touch up paint. I dont feel like spending 700 on a tank with such a small amount of damage honestly.


Bent bar, broken bar and and broken brake lever


Broken fairing, nose fairing, and turn signal


More fairing damage, and you can see the hole in the engine cover


Exhaust can


Tailight chipped, rear chipped a bit, and passenger grab handle, which was getting replaced with a givi top case set anyway.

All in all, i dont think it was TOO bad considering. Could have been much worse.

[dpwell]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

Pics Below


Ill still ride in the cold, im not going to beat myself up since i feel there wasnt much i could do other than not ride the bike or go a different route.

Why is "not riding the bike" such a bad option?

I had a similar experience New Year's Eve. It was cold but I wanted to go for a ride anyway. It was about 3 degrees celsius, just a little above freezing. I low-sided on a corner I've been around a million times before and the only reason I can think is black ice. $2,600 damages. Cost me the $300 deductible, that's all. Lucky me! I was unhurt apart from a bruised rib or two.

I consider that to have been a lucky lesson. I was stupid and I got off cheap. I did beat myself up for going out in the cold and I will NEVER ride in the cold again (I now have a minimum temperature below which I will not ride. I suggest you consider a similar policy). Like I said, I was lucky. The outcome could have been far worse.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by dpwell

Why is "not riding the bike" such a bad option?

I had a similar experience New Year's Eve. It was cold but I wanted to go for a ride anyway. It was about 3 degrees celsius, just a little above freezing. I low-sided on a corner I've been around a million times before and the only reason I can think is black ice. $2,600 damages. Cost me the $300 deductible, that's all. Lucky me! I was unhurt apart from a bruised rib or two.

I consider that to have been a lucky lesson. I was stupid and I got off cheap. I did beat myself up for going out in the cold and I will NEVER ride in the cold again (I now have a minimum temperature below which I will not ride. I suggest you consider a similar policy). Like I said, I was lucky. The outcome could have been far worse.

Its not that its a bad option, i only meant that i think it was the only option where i would not have went down. I wouldnt go out in the exact same situation, thats not what i meant. Ill still ride in the cold, but the day before it had rained about an inch, so that area had a lot of run off. That was my mistake, not taking into account the weather and the cold. I feel i am very lucky and have learned another lesson for sure. On another note, i just put 700 miles on the 1000 this weekend, all 2 up with my gf. Went to Maine, along the coast and back in a 3 day weekend. Performed great aside from the scottoiler blowing a fuse the last 100 miles from home.

[akima]

Originally Posted by dpwell

Why is "not riding the bike" such a bad option?

I had a similar experience New Year's Eve. It was cold but I wanted to go for a ride anyway. It was about 3 degrees celsius, just a little above freezing. I low-sided on a corner I've been around a million times before and the only reason I can think is black ice. $2,600 damages. Cost me the $300 deductible, that's all. Lucky me! I was unhurt apart from a bruised rib or two.

I consider that to have been a lucky lesson. I was stupid and I got off cheap. I did beat myself up for going out in the cold and I will NEVER ride in the cold again (I now have a minimum temperature below which I will not ride. I suggest you consider a similar policy). Like I said, I was lucky. The outcome could have been far worse.

3 degrees celsius is warm lol! You've just got to adjust your riding for the conditions.

Perhaps the roads are better here though. They put down a ton of salt. It takes care of ice, bur it also ruins peoples vehicles. I just had to have my rear brakes rebuilt to clean out the rust that had caused it to stick on.

If it gets below zero, I tend not to ride... though that decision is normally made for me: my ninjette makes a huge fuss at those temperatures.