Lost a Classmate Yesterday :(

[Goom]

http://flaglerlive.com/52507/motorcy...comment-619969

I came home from the beach yesterday to see this article. He was a fellow WyoTech student that started at the same time I did. I didn't know him all that well, but I had talked to him a few times, and he seemed like a great guy. He had put a lot of work into his bike, but he was very quiet and seemed quite humble, which is rare at our school.

Having lost friends to accidents, and being a motorcyclist myself, this really hit too close to home, especially since it was someone I have seen 5 days a week for the past 3 months. It made it even more difficult knowing that we had finals yesterday, and that any other day he would have still been in class at the time of the accident.

I hate that I ever have to be reminded, but what we do is inherently dangerous, and we can't take a single moment for granted.

[lgk]

My deepest condolences...
Like any other dangerous activity, we have to be ever vigilant for our safety.

[xSean13]

"He was not wearing a helmet..."

"the motorcycle came around the corner and you could see he was just going too fast"

[Goom]

Originally Posted by xSean13

"He was not wearing a helmet..."

"the motorcycle came around the corner and you could see he was just going too fast"

Helmets aren't made to save your life, they're made to save your head. He died because his leg was smashed. I believe they used the words "almost lost a leg" in the article.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go anywhere without my helmet on, but I'm not banking on it to keep me from dying anymore than I'm banking on the seatbelt in my truck.

As far as his speed is concerned, I wouldn't be one to cast the first stone. I can't say I've taken every curve at the speed limit.

[csmith12]

Godspeed...

[lgk]

Reading the article, there seemed to be no accurate reference for speed other than he looked like he was going too fast. I didnt take it too seriously.

Any collision speed over 30mph results in serious injury to a rider.

[psych0hans]

Stupid boy! Who corners hot on a Harley? I know I took a "fast" 90* left on my dads fat bob and I was already dragging hard parts... Fast was not more than 30-35mph.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Goom

Helmets aren't made to save your life, they're made to save your head. He died because his leg was smashed. I believe they used the words "almost lost a leg" in the article.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go anywhere without my helmet on, but I'm not banking on it to keep me from dying anymore than I'm banking on the seatbelt in my truck.

What?

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that
motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of crash fatality by 37 percent. Norvell and Cummings found a 39 percent reduction in the risk of death after adjusting for age, gender, and seat position.
http://www.smarter-usa.org/documents...Helmet-Q&A.pdf

Traumatic brain injury is a leading cause of motorcycle crash death. Even when not fatal, these debilitating head injuries can mean a lifetime of costly rehabilitation and severe emotional trauma for family and friends. In fact, treating severe traumatic brain injuries costs 13 times more than non-brain injuries http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafet...revention.html

I don't think he was wearing any safety gear judging by that picture of his shoe lying in the road. Mmmhm. Maybe gear could have saved him from losing that leg which apparently caused his death. I think once you start speeding around blind turns on a cruiser without any gear you are asking for trouble. This is Darwinism at it's best.

[Bentley813]

I was thinking about that as well. I wonder if a good pair of leathers would have saved his leg. Sorry to hear regardless OP.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Jono

What?

That is the law of absolute logic. Nothing really wrong his logic in this case. Much like a bullet proof vest will not stop a bullet to the head.

[psych0hans]

@Jono what @Goom is trying to say is, a helmet alone will not save your life, make you invincible... In this case, having a helmet on, would not have saved him. You still have to have a head under that helmet... one you know how to use...

[MARCUSMARC]

Makes me wish that more people were trained in first aid and able to help in times of need. Sounds like a tourniquet could have been life saving in this situation. Very sad and unfortunate.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by MARCUSMARC

Makes me wish that more people were trained in first aid and able to help in times of need. Sounds like a tourniquet could have been life saving in this situation. Very sad and unfortunate.

^^ this, about 10 of us in my local group renewed our CPR and first aid certs this Feb. I hope we never have to use any of the skills.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by MARCUSMARC

Makes me wish that more people were trained in first aid and able to help in times of need. Sounds like a tourniquet could have been life saving in this situation. Very sad and unfortunate.

i keep a first aid kit in my pack, but i might need to upgrade it to a trauma kit.

or supplement it with tourniquets, a splint making material, and clotting agents.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Goom

..........I came home from the beach yesterday to see this article. He was a fellow WyoTech student that started at the same time I did. I didn't know him all that well, but I had talked to him a few times, and he seemed like a great guy. He had put a lot of work into his bike, but he was very quiet and seemed quite humble, which is rare at our school.

Terribly sad, Eric!!!

I have felt like you do several times years ago,.........and I still remember those accidents today.

It may have been a mechanical problem, since the turn and condition of the pavement don't look like inducing a low-side skid.

Judging by the damage to the truck, he had a very strong impact over his left side.

My sincere condolences to his family and friends.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by Jono

I don't think he was wearing any safety gear judging by that picture of his shoe lying in the road. Mmmhm. Maybe gear could have saved him from losing that leg which apparently caused his death. I think once you start speeding around blind turns on a cruiser without any gear you are asking for trouble. This is Darwinism at it's best.

+1

It's never good to lose a fellow rider but, at the same time, I must admit he lost my sympathy when I found out he didn't have a helmet and was speeding. No, I don't take every curve at the speed limit but I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me if I mess myself up. To me, it looks like he may have just went wide in the turn which caused him to cross into the oncoming lane.

[aeroblade]

My condolences mate, I can imagine how it would feel to see someone go just like that and I don't mean any disrespect when I say this, but I'm more inclined towards what other's have already mentioned. I still don't understand why people think its cooler to not wear any protective gear. I see hundreds of squids everyday trying to show off with out even the standard protective gear that is in fact required by law, the helmet. Even before I got my bike I made sure I got atleast my helmet first because I'd rather look like fully geared up dork and survive to ride another day than look cool to impress someone on the road who most probably will never see you ever again.

[LoD575]

Originally Posted by lgk

i keep a first aid kit in my pack, but i might need to upgrade it to a trauma kit.

or supplement it with tourniquets, a splint making material, and clotting agents.

Without seeing the scene photographs and autopsy report of findings it's hard to know if a tourniquet may have even been useful.

A small trauma pack with quikclot and an added tourniquet is a good idea.

My condolences.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by csmith12

That is the law of absolute logic. Nothing really wrong his logic in this case. Much like a bullet proof vest will not stop a bullet to the head.

I know. But if you know that you can significantly decrease your chances of death, why not do it?

That's what I was getting at. If a leading cause of motorcycle deaths are from traumatic brain injuries and helmets reduce the likelihood of crash fatality by 37 percent. I can't possibly understand why some people decide not to wear helmets.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Goom

http://flaglerlive.com/52507/motorcy...comment-619969

Analyzing the data provided by the news and the specific turn, it seems to be the typical over-estimation of speed of witnesses biased against motorcycles.

The posted speed limit for that two-lane country road is 50 mph and the recommended speed for that curve is 35 mph.

Using Google Earth, I have estimated the radius of the turn where the accident happened to be around 440 feet.

In order to reach a lean angle of 45 degrees and start dragging hard parts and low-siding there, the bike had to have been travelling above 81 mph.

Vmax (in mph) = Square root [ 14.9 * turn radius (in feet)]

I don't think that anybody with some street-riding experience would enter that curve at more than 80 mph.
Again, I want to believe that the reason of this fatal accident was a mechanical problem.

"A Florida Highway Patrol homicide investigator confirmed that Trainham “failed to negotiate the curve, a sharp curve,” and slammed into the truck, triggering his ejection. He was not wearing a helmet, but he did not die of a head injury. “He severed his left leg, I believe, below the knee cap,” the investigator said, causing his death."

Being higher than the trucks' hood, his head may not have impacted at all with the truck.
Tires seem to have been in good shape also.

Note the huge dent in the gas tank left by his left knee.
The impact was so strong that the swingarm got loose form the pivot (probably against the front wheel of the truck).

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Analyzing the data provided by the news and the specific turn, it seems to be the typical over-estimation of speed of witnesses biased against motorcycles.

The posted speed limit for that two-lane country road is 50 mph and the recommended speed for that curve is 35 mph.

Using Google Earth, I have estimated the radius of the turn where the accident happened to be around 440 feet.

In order to reach a lean angle of 45 degrees and start dragging hard parts and low-siding there, the bike had to have been travelling above 81 mph.

Vmax (in mph) = Square root [ 14.9 * turn radius (in feet)]

I don't think that anybody with some street-riding experience would enter that curve at more than 80 mph.
Again, I want to believe that the reason of this fatal accident was a mechanical problem.

What makes you rule out that he just ran wide? He could've been going faster than the speed limit and still under your estimated 81 mph to drag hard parts. IDK why, just seems more probable to me that this was rider error and not his bike suddenly crapping out.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

What makes you rule out that he just ran wide?...........

I just don't know what running wide means, since it has never happened to me.

Reading the comments under the news, I could see that many local road cagers label that specific curve as dangerous.

Some motorcyclists talk about some surface's ripples that affect motorcycles.

Others talk about bikers "flying out that curve" at 60~70 mph.

The victim had moved down to Florida in January and some comments remark how tourists are easily caught by surprise by that turn.

Another motorcyclist had died at the same point.

You are correct, I cannot know what really happened.
I can however, compare this to many other news, in which witnesses are quick to blame the excessive speed of the riders in a crash, even police reports frequently include some opinion from the officer describing the accident that is not based on any calculation.

Anybody can enter that curve at 100 mph and then crash, but it seems not logical to me that any rider does it, in a clear afternoon, at any speed that could actually make a street bike loose control..............Only assumptions, I know, but better than just swallowing biased news.

[Gurk]

Originally Posted by Goom

Helmets aren't made to save your life, they're made to save your head.

Sorry for your loss but stopped reading the thread right there......

[Goom]

Originally Posted by Gurk

Sorry for your loss but stopped reading the thread right there......

Ok...

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by Gurk

Sorry for your loss but stopped reading the thread right there......

Don't hate on @Goom just because of his poor choice of words... what he REALLY meant to say was "A helmet ALONE will not save your life"... I suggest he changes his earlier post to reflect that too. Lazy gurk... Stupid goom... lol

[Goom]

I thought I was fairly clear, but I'll try again. A helmet keeps your head from being splattered on the pavement. It doesn't keep it attached to your body, or save you from your torso being smashed under a semi, or having your arms ripped off. Likewise, a seat belt keeps you from being thrown out of a car, but it serves no purpose in saving you from a vehicle that is on fire, or saving you from being crushed inside a mangled vehicle. And a kevlar vest will stop a bullet to your chest, but not one to your head.

My point is that every piece of safety equipment was designed to reduce injuries in specific situations, but nothing makes us invincible.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Stupid gurk... Lazy goom... lol

FTFY

[Gurk]

Originally Posted by allanoue

FTFY

[aeroblade]

@Goom : Yes, you do make a valid point, but you should know that head injuries contribute to a majority of motorcycle fatalities the rider is often thrown head first from the bike. Hence the debate.

@Gurk : Where did you get that "thumbnail" from?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by aeroblade

@Goom : Yes, you do make a valid point, but you should know that head injuries contribute to a majority of motorcycle fatalities the rider is often thrown head first from the bike. Hence the debate.

@Gurk : Where did you get that "thumbnail" from?

What is being debated?

[aeroblade]

That em there's just one of em fancy wurds!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Goom

Helmets aren't made to save your life, they're made to save your head. He died because his leg was smashed. I believe they used the words "almost lost a leg" in the article.

Don't get me wrong, I don't go anywhere without my helmet on, but I'm not banking on it to keep me from dying anymore than I'm banking on the seatbelt in my truck.

As far as his speed is concerned, I wouldn't be one to cast the first stone. I can't say I've taken every curve at the speed limit.

I guess I'm a little late to the party, but you're 100% right about the helmet.

Helmets are designed to protect your head at impact speeds less than 15mph. This is the design speed and it represents the approximate speed that your head will be going if you simply fall off your bike while its sitting still and impact the pavement. This is one of those lesser known facts about helmets. There are a LOT of riders out there that have been deluded into thinking that they wont be killed if they wear a helmet.

So if you crash head first into anything with or without a helmet at 30 mph, your brain will be salsa. But fortunately, in many cases, the victim doesn't hit head first such as a lowside. And that's why I always wear a helmet even though they get more credit than they deserve.

While it does appear that the rider was at fault in this accident, there were numerous witnesses and passer-bys that just sat there and watched while the blood gushed from his severed leg. Not one of them decided to apply a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure how those people can live with themselves knowing that their inacton helped this kid to die.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I guess I'm a little late to the party, but you're 100% right about the helmet.

Helmets are designed to protect your head at impact speeds less than 15mph. This is the design speed and it represents the approximate speed that your head will be going if you simply fall off your bike while its sitting still and impact the pavement. This is one of those lesser known facts about helmets. There are a LOT of riders out there that have been deluded into thinking that they wont be killed if they wear a helmet.

So if you crash head first into anything with or without a helmet at 30 mph, your brain will be salsa. But fortunately, in many cases, the victim doesn't hit head first such as a lowside. And that's why I always wear a helmet even though they get more credit than they deserve.

While it does appear that the rider was at fault in this accident, there were numerous witnesses and passer-bys that just sat there and watched while the blood gushed from his severed leg. Not one of them decided to apply a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure how those people can live with themselves knowing that their inacton helped this kid to die.

Do you disagree with the CDC's estimates?

wearing helmets. Helmets are estimated to prevent 37 percent of crash deaths among motorcycle riders and 41 percent of crash deaths for motorcycle passengers.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Do you disagree with the CDC's estimates?

wearing helmets. Helmets are estimated to prevent 37 percent of crash deaths among motorcycle riders and 41 percent of crash deaths for motorcycle passengers.

Its more like 30%. But the point is, in 70% of fatalities, the helmet was ineffective at saving the rider's life. But again, that's not an argument against helmets, its just calling a spade a spade.

As a side note, I looked at the crash area on google street view and I don't think it was speed related. The turn simply isn't that sharp. Even a Harley should have been able to make that turn at 70mph. I'm thinking the cager girl in the truck guessed correctly when she said 50 mph. My guess is that he was distracted somehow and the turn came up on him suddenly. From the descriptions, it sounds like he was veering before he even got to the curve.

[Jesse8931]

Are you guys kidding me.

How do you know he did not catch a bee to the forehead causing the accident ?

If you are not wearing proper gear you are one stupid mofo.

No reason besides speed or something distracting that boy to cause him to go wide into that lane.

[n4mwd]

The bee theory is just as good as any other. But a big juicy bug splatting across the visor would have accomplished the same thing. It could also be road debris like gravel falling off a truck. No way to know for sure.

I agree that he should have been wearing a helmet, but in this case, it would not have made any difference. His head was not seriously injured.

What is known for sure is that the passerbys just watched while he bled out and never applied a tourniquet. Its highly probable that doing that would have saved his life.

[akima]

Sad news.

Ride safe everyone. Most of the motorcycle deaths I hear about were completely avoidable. I hope that hearing stories like this doesn't put people off riding. Wear your gear, concentrate while riding, learn how to control your bike and learn safe riding practices. Do these things and it's very unlikely you'll become a tragic news headline.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Goom

Helmets aren't made to save your life, they're made to save your head.

you can survive the loss of a leg. you cannot survive the loss of your head. so in that regard, helmets are designed to save your life by protecting you against head injuries. obviously a helmet doesn't protect your legs, that is why you wear leg protections.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The bee theory is just as good as any other. But a big juicy bug splatting across the visor would have accomplished the same thing.

you can open a visor when it gets soiled. you can't open your face when your face gets soiled.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

What is known for sure is that the passerbys just watched while he bled out and never applied a tourniquet. Its highly probable that doing that would have saved his life.

i agree everybody should know CPR and how to apply a tourniquet.

[mike12]

i read the article and the part that gets me is the lady not leaving her 3 y/o alone long enough to help him. I saw the cause of death to be determined from blood loss from his severed leg which means his femoral artery was wide open and can cause a person to die in less than 30 seconds especially at his heart rate being up. If someone with some sense had ran to him immediately and used a belt or something to tourniquet his leg, maybe he could have pulled through. IDK that just really bothers me as a Navy Hospital Corpsman. I'm sorry for the loss, i know the face of death and you never get use to it.