My crash in some twisties

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I think it can be represented like this;

(((((turn/skill)+traction)*speed)/attention)√execution)-((traction/(random*chaos))) = target fixation

like whoa....

I thumbed the wrong button. That should be a helpful post. I gotta stop posting and reading right when I wake up!!

[eddiekay]

My opinion of the second vid is that the rider showed a lot of good sense by not passing the big bikes when you could have. Street behavior is not track behavior and a right side pass isnt usually anything anyone gets pissed over. I dont do it...I dont like it but it goes on. I'd give the rider an A+ for self control.
On most boards it seems everyone either does track days or dreams of them but not too many people talk about the time and expense involved. If a guy has the time and money to do them....and really wants to then def go for it. I'm certain anyone will come back a better rider if not a faster rider. Still...a lot of the stuff that's done on a track shouldn't be done on the street. And of course...street riding is way diff from a track. It was a nice vid and 100% typical of a saturday ride...complete with crash.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rasta

Good point, @Motofool. At this point in my riding, if I enter a curve "too hot", it's most likely only my perception that I'm going too fast. When in reality, just some extra leaning and throttle roll is all I need. If I understand you correctly

Easier said than done, Wes.

When the subconscious part of your brain has reasons to believe that the conscious part is not doing enough to guarantee survival, it has the power to switch to survival mode (which is completely out of your control).

After you reach that mental point, the natural survival reactions start showing up; the problem is that there is nothing natural about riding a motorcycle.

Those natural survival reactions are the correct ones to run in front of an animal in the jungle: tunnel vision, target fixation, vertical posture, grab something to keep the balance, tension all muscles, use your feet for quick stopping, etc.

Our subconscious software is not programmed to lean more, to counter-steer, to be gentle on the throttle and brakes, or to keep a broad and far field of vision.

It is sad seeing riders in a crash course doing nothing but useless inputs like extending legs and trying to slowdown with their feet, steering into the trouble area (yes, steering away from the problem means counter-steering into the problem), chopping the throttle closed, grabbing too much brakes or straighten lean and circular trajectories like in the OP's case.

For all those reasons, all riders, and especially inexperienced ones, should make a conscious effort not to run into situations that frighten or terrify that subconscious part of the brain.

The two major triggers for that are the sense of lack of space and the sense of lack of time.
Any of those can reverse the on-control feeling (you lead the bike at will) to out-of-control feeling (you are pushed around by the bike into a frightening or terrifying situation).

Many things can trigger those survival reactions, but nothing like speed that suddenly feels excessive for the personal degree of comfort of a rider for each specific situation (note the surprise factor here).

Systematic training teaches you to plan ahead (figure out a curve or a traffic situation), to find the real limits of your machine (brake, lean, acceleration), to breath and relax (more oxygen to the brain and less stress on the handlebar), to look far and wide (immediately calms down your sense of excessive speed and puts your mind two or three steps ahead of the bike), to foreseen dangerous situations (animal, person or car jumping into your path, low traction surface, hook turn, etc.) and to either avoid them or plan an evasive maneuver (braking and/or swerving and/or accelerating).

Riding a motorcycle is mostly a mental excessive, reason for which we need to educate our senses and reactions before twisting that wrist too enthusiastically.

Ride much, ride smart !!!

[250rr]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I see no benefit in group rides for inexperienced riders.

Excellent post, Motofool. I especially like this, though. Coming from a real noob, I can tell you that I have made a lot of mistakes. However, I somehow intuitively knew that I was better off riding by myself while I was learning. Keeping things within my limited skill-set. I'm sure it saved me a painful lesson...

Now, I just have to work on not being over confident!

[IF13]

Originally Posted by 250rr

Excellent post, Motofool. I especially like this, though. Coming from a real noob, I can tell you that I have made a lot of mistakes. However, I somehow intuitively knew that I was better off riding by myself while I was learning. Keeping things within my limited skill-set. I'm sure it saved me a painful lesson...

Now, I just have to work on not being over confident!

This. My friend has a gixxer and he's also still starting (not the best bike to start on I know). We rode together once and I almost lost it doing 70 while trying to keep up with him on a bend.

Looking back now, I also realized riding with him made me a more cocky rider -- being faster than the rest of the cars, having more space to maneuver, being cool as hell, etc. I learned after the crash to ease off and assume no sense of ego on the road (unless stopped at a red light next to a cute girl ) and to probably stay away from group rides for a long while.

[Dark]

You're alive and you learned; always good experience to have.

[alex.s]

if your elbow isn't dragging against the pavement, you can lean more!

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by alex.s

if your elbow isn't dragging against the pavement, you can lean more!

He's just not sticking his elbows out far enough.

[alex.s]

your brain turns input into output. if you don't input the escape route, then you wont output the maneuver to go to the escape route.

this is why people say look at the exit. because if you look at the exit your brain turns that input for the exit, into output to maneuver to the exit.

you input (think about; i.e. target fix ) a crash, you don't get output for a maneuver to the exit. you get output for what kind of health insurance deductible you have, output for how your family will react when you tell them you crashed, output for the pain you're about to feel, output for catchy titles for the 'oops i crashed' thread you'll create on ninjette... you lose focus on the goal and you get no useful output.

don't think; do. thinking about things takes too long. there is no "can't" once you have already committed to something. don't know if you have committed yet? then you're already commited. there is only a successful outcome, or an unsuccessful outcome. you don't want an unsuccessful outcome, right? so then there is no giving up on what you have committed yourself into. giving up will guarantee an unsuccessful outcome. so commit. ride the bike toward the exit. there is no giving up. tires sliding? keep riding. bits grinding? keep riding. you are the pilot, not the bike. you tell the bike what to do. the bike either does it or it doesn't do it. if you don't tell the bike the correct thing to do, it will never do it.

[csmith12]

^^^ lol Blunt force logic.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by 250rr

Excellent post, Motofool. I especially like this, though. Coming from a real noob, I can tell you that I have made a lot of mistakes. However, I somehow intuitively knew that I was better off riding by myself while I was learning. Keeping things within my limited skill-set. I'm sure it saved me a painful lesson...

Now, I just have to work on not being over confident!

Thanks, Mark

I all have made a lot of mistakes, some have learned not to repeat them, some haven't.
The intuitive and prudent rider can advance very rapidly to his best shape, with minimum damage.

Riding with others is good for learning only when those have something to teach you and are patient and willing to see you progressing and improving.

Don't under-estimate the value of parking lots' low speed practice in dry and wet conditions for becoming familiar with traction limits.
Lean angle is lean angle and always reveals how much lateral force the contact patches feel:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[250rr]

Very cool. I was actually amazed at how much I learned in a parking lot during the Rider Skills Practice Class I took.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Riding with others is good for learning only when those have something to teach you and are patient and willing to see you progressing and improving.

Don't under-estimate the value of parking lots' low speed practice in dry and wet conditions for becoming familiar with traction limits.
Lean angle is lean angle and always reveals how much lateral force the contact patches feel:

Link to original page on YouTube.

I was at that session!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Panda

I was at that session!

Amazing, Panda !!!



The video was posted by Vulfy at http://amgrass.com/

Having a group to practice that must be very helpful.
I am a solitary figure 8's drafter