Rear Brake Bleedout?

JBinSD · March 27th, 2013, 02:10 PM

So I did my front SSBL today, and changed my rear tire, and checked my rear brake, and like almost nothing, full pedal travel, and no pressure. The routing of the OEM brake line does a little roller-coaster up and down, and putting on Vortex rearsets raised the cylinder another couple inches.

To be honest, I don't know if I've ever had a back brake, since I never use it, but now I'm pissed. I re-bled the line about 6 times, and it would hold pressure when the caliper was off and on an equal level with the resevoir, but would lose pressure when its bolted on the caliper perch. Wtf?

I'm going to switch out the rear line with SS tomorrow morning before hitting the track, but have any of you had this problem? I'm bleeding from both the bleeder value and the banjos trying to get rid of any air, but each time I get pressure built up, I bolt on the caliper and whoosh, pedal travel with no pressure.

Fookin weird, I'm hoping the new line will solve it, but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar experience or advice.

thanx,
Joel

rojoracing53 · March 27th, 2013, 02:30 PM

You have to be missed something in the equation but from your description I can't say what.

geeker · March 28th, 2013, 05:45 AM

Are you using the brake light switch with the rearsets? When I put in new tires, I noticed a little seepage from the fitting between the rubber hose and the caliper banjo. I never lost pressure though. They still work like the day I took delivery of it.

Joshorilla · March 28th, 2013, 05:59 AM

Hmm, so you're bleeding the caliper off the bike "raised up I hope"? Are you using a piece of wood simmilar thickness or slightly thicker to your disc between your pads? Obviously air is getting in somewhere, either you havn't got it all out or more in being introduced somewhere, this could be the banjo bolt crush washer gap or the piston seals on the calipers, or simply you havn't let it all out and it's retained in the line, do the pistons and seals look to be in good condition? And is the banjo bolt tightened to spec "no too tight as it's aluminium!"?

Motofool · March 28th, 2013, 06:27 AM

May it be a defective master cylinder?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ke_diagram.gif

If you cannot build pressure and keep it at any point, and have never used the system, chances are that the seals of the master cylinder piston have hardened or/and that the compensation and inlet ports are clogged.

JBinSD · March 28th, 2013, 08:04 AM

Than guys, helpful thoughts. IGeeker, I did remove the brake light switch with the new rear set install, so that could have affected it. I did elevate the caliper and put a wrench between the pads too, and it would hold a seal upon elevation, but lose pressure only after the caliper was bolted on the perch. Replacing the line with SS today, hope that's the fix, but I appreciate the input guys, thanx :-)

JBinSD · July 18th, 2013, 04:21 PM

Just reviving this thread again, as I still haven't gotten the rear brake working. I noticed there are some curious bracket type things on the right side of the swingarm, and now I'm wondering if that affects the caliper and how it sits on the perch.
checking to see if anyone's messed with this and figured it out before. . . .
Thanx,
joel

felo · July 18th, 2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBinSD

Just reviving this thread again, as I still haven't gotten the rear brake working. I noticed there are some curious bracket type things on the right side of the swingarm, and now I'm wondering if that affects the caliper and how it sits on the perch.
checking to see if anyone's messed with this and figured it out before. . . .
Thanx,
joel

that bracket type things is where the oem brake hose goes

JBinSD · July 18th, 2013, 04:35 PM

Thanx Felo, I knew it was for the brake hose, but that pic helps by pointing out the pistons on my caliper seem to be hitting the hose brackets, that may be a reason why the brake is not functioning. I also noticed I routed my brakeline differently, so it approaches the banjo from the front, instead of looping around to the back. Not sure if that has an impact or not. .. hmm.

JBinSD · July 18th, 2013, 04:50 PM

I'm also wondering if I have the caliper perch flipped or something; after looking at the picture of the 250 caliper and mine, it looks like my caliper isn't far enough forward.

Anyone have a pic of their (working) 300 caliper? Doubt they're diff than the 250, but ya never know. . .

felo · July 18th, 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBinSD

I'm also wondering if I have the caliper perch flipped or something; after looking at the picture of the 250 caliper and mine, it looks like my caliper isn't far enough forward.

Anyone have a pic of their (working) 300 caliper? Doubt they're diff than the 250, but ya never know. . .

i have a 300 and is the same , the only difference is that the 300 caliper is black

JBinSD · July 18th, 2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felo

i have a 300 and is the same , the only difference is that the 300 caliper is black

OK, thanks, is the caliper forward of the hose guides, or right there? If you look at my pic above, my caliper actually contacts the hose clamps, and I think that may impede the travel of the pistons, does your caliper touch the hose guide?

felo · July 18th, 2013, 05:02 PM

well i dont have the bike close to tell you exactly but here are 2 google pics that i found

just try and take the line out and do the process again, try and get the caliper out and push the pistons in , if that makes any diference. just take your time

alex.s · July 18th, 2013, 05:14 PM

regardless of the outside of the caliper or what its pressed against, putting hydraulic pressure into the cylinder should expand the piston out into whatever. doesn't matter if its doing it correctly or not. and it should put resistance on the pedal at a certain point. if you do not reach a point where enough pressure is built up to extend the piston, and not enough pressure is built up to hold the pedal back, then you have a leak in the system somewhere. could be seals, maybe the line. if the brake caliper pot cylinder was rusted and not moving you would still build pressure in the master and the pedal would have resistance. the fact that the pedal never gets enough pressure to provide resistance means that pressure is either not being built up or it is quickly dissipating. my vote is on a damaged master cylinder seals.

JBinSD · July 18th, 2013, 05:23 PM

hmm, thanx Alex, but the thing is only 6 mos. old, and I replaced the line with SS, AND it pressures up when the caliper is not on the perch, so I'm trippin' as to why it loses pressure once its put in place. . . I guess its possible the master cylinder seals were fried from the beginning, as I've never used a back brake before, but since I seem to enjoy a good runoff at Chuck rather frequently, I guess I need to get it dialed. . .

Xtina · August 2nd, 2013, 06:44 PM

So if there is not pressure on the pad and you keep putting fluid in the reservoir, where is the brake fluid going? Is it leaking out? If there's fluid in there it has to go somewhere, either leak out or compress the caliper.

Lychee · August 2nd, 2013, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xtina

So if there is not pressure on the pad and you keep putting fluid in the reservoir, where is the brake fluid going? Is it leaking out? If there's fluid in there it has to go somewhere, either leak out or compress the caliper.

here is a really insightful question.

JBinSD · August 4th, 2013, 06:21 PM

The volume of fluid is not increasing, but the pressure is dissipating somewhere.

sousuke86 · August 6th, 2013, 02:26 PM

When you bleed the caliper make sure you have the bleeder screw facing UP.

You'll get pressure but air bubbles will remain in the line no matter how much you bleed them.

csmith12 · August 6th, 2013, 03:20 PM

I just had this happen to me today. Mine was a crimped in the large feed tube from the fluid reservoir to the master cylinder. When the raised rearsets are installed, it kinks the stock feed tube. NO crimps or kinks in the main.

JBinSD · August 6th, 2013, 03:26 PM

Hmm, thanx guys, I'll check them both and see if there's any air. . .

csmith12 · August 6th, 2013, 03:35 PM

What mine looked like for reference.

March 27th, 2013, 02:10 PM	#1
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Rear Brake Bleedout? So I did my front SSBL today, and changed my rear tire, and checked my rear brake, and like almost nothing, full pedal travel, and no pressure. The routing of the OEM brake line does a little roller-coaster up and down, and putting on Vortex rearsets raised the cylinder another couple inches. To be honest, I don't know if I've ever had a back brake, since I never use it, but now I'm pissed. I re-bled the line about 6 times, and it would hold pressure when the caliper was off and on an equal level with the resevoir, but would lose pressure when its bolted on the caliper perch. Wtf? I'm going to switch out the rear line with SS tomorrow morning before hitting the track, but have any of you had this problem? I'm bleeding from both the bleeder value and the banjos trying to get rid of any air, but each time I get pressure built up, I bolt on the caliper and whoosh, pedal travel with no pressure. Fookin weird, I'm hoping the new line will solve it, but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar experience or advice. thanx, Joel

March 28th, 2013, 06:27 AM	#5
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	May it be a defective master cylinder? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ke_diagram.gif If you cannot build pressure and keep it at any point, and have never used the system, chances are that the seals of the master cylinder piston have hardened or/and that the compensation and inlet ports are clogged. __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

July 18th, 2013, 05:14 PM	#14
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	regardless of the outside of the caliper or what its pressed against, putting hydraulic pressure into the cylinder should expand the piston out into whatever. doesn't matter if its doing it correctly or not. and it should put resistance on the pedal at a certain point. if you do not reach a point where enough pressure is built up to extend the piston, and not enough pressure is built up to hold the pedal back, then you have a leak in the system somewhere. could be seals, maybe the line. if the brake caliper pot cylinder was rusted and not moving you would still build pressure in the master and the pedal would have resistance. the fact that the pedal never gets enough pressure to provide resistance means that pressure is either not being built up or it is quickly dissipating. my vote is on a damaged master cylinder seals. __________________________________________________

August 6th, 2013, 03:20 PM	#20
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	I just had this happen to me today. Mine was a crimped in the large feed tube from the fluid reservoir to the master cylinder. When the raised rearsets are installed, it kinks the stock feed tube. NO crimps or kinks in the main. __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School Last futzed with by csmith12; August 6th, 2013 at 03:31 PM. Reason: spelling

August 6th, 2013, 03:35 PM	#22
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	What mine looked like for reference. __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

March 27th, 2013, 02:30 PM	#2
rojoracing53 Fast-Guy wannabe Name: Jason Location: Brentwood, Ca Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja250, 2011 RM-Z250, 2004 NSR50, Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jan '13	You have to be missed something in the equation but from your description I can't say what.

March 28th, 2013, 05:45 AM	#3
geeker ninjette.org guru Name: Richie Location: Arkansas Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda CRF300L Rally, 2015 Ninja ZX6R 636, 2014 Ninja 1000, 2013 Ninja 300 (sold), 2011 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: 479	Are you using the brake light switch with the rearsets? When I put in new tires, I noticed a little seepage from the fitting between the rubber hose and the caliper banjo. I never lost pressure though. They still work like the day I took delivery of it.

March 28th, 2013, 05:59 AM	#4
Joshorilla Bass Master General Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 24	Hmm, so you're bleeding the caliper off the bike "raised up I hope"? Are you using a piece of wood simmilar thickness or slightly thicker to your disc between your pads? Obviously air is getting in somewhere, either you havn't got it all out or more in being introduced somewhere, this could be the banjo bolt crush washer gap or the piston seals on the calipers, or simply you havn't let it all out and it's retained in the line, do the pistons and seals look to be in good condition? And is the banjo bolt tightened to spec "no too tight as it's aluminium!"?

March 28th, 2013, 08:04 AM	#6
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Than guys, helpful thoughts. IGeeker, I did remove the brake light switch with the new rear set install, so that could have affected it. I did elevate the caliper and put a wrench between the pads too, and it would hold a seal upon elevation, but lose pressure only after the caliper was bolted on the perch. Replacing the line with SS today, hope that's the fix, but I appreciate the input guys, thanx :-)

July 18th, 2013, 04:35 PM	#9
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Thanx Felo, I knew it was for the brake hose, but that pic helps by pointing out the pistons on my caliper seem to be hitting the hose brackets, that may be a reason why the brake is not functioning. I also noticed I routed my brakeline differently, so it approaches the banjo from the front, instead of looping around to the back. Not sure if that has an impact or not. .. hmm.

July 18th, 2013, 04:50 PM	#10
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	I'm also wondering if I have the caliper perch flipped or something; after looking at the picture of the 250 caliper and mine, it looks like my caliper isn't far enough forward. Anyone have a pic of their (working) 300 caliper? Doubt they're diff than the 250, but ya never know. . .

July 18th, 2013, 05:02 PM	#13
felo ninjette.org member Name: Carlos Location: Puerto Rico Join Date: Jan 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300R Posts: 181	well i dont have the bike close to tell you exactly but here are 2 google pics that i found just try and take the line out and do the process again, try and get the caliper out and push the pistons in , if that makes any diference. just take your time

July 18th, 2013, 05:23 PM	#15
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	hmm, thanx Alex, but the thing is only 6 mos. old, and I replaced the line with SS, AND it pressures up when the caliper is not on the perch, so I'm trippin' as to why it loses pressure once its put in place. . . I guess its possible the master cylinder seals were fried from the beginning, as I've never used a back brake before, but since I seem to enjoy a good runoff at Chuck rather frequently, I guess I need to get it dialed. . .

August 2nd, 2013, 06:44 PM	#16
Xtina ninjette.org guru Name: Christina Location: Toronto Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300, 2007 Gsxr 600, R6-sold :( Posts: 270	So if there is not pressure on the pad and you keep putting fluid in the reservoir, where is the brake fluid going? Is it leaking out? If there's fluid in there it has to go somewhere, either leak out or compress the caliper.

August 4th, 2013, 06:21 PM	#18
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	The volume of fluid is not increasing, but the pressure is dissipating somewhere.

August 6th, 2013, 02:26 PM	#19
sousuke86 ninjette.org member Name: David Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE Posts: 78	When you bleed the caliper make sure you have the bleeder screw facing UP. You'll get pressure but air bubbles will remain in the line no matter how much you bleed them.

August 6th, 2013, 03:26 PM	#21
JBinSD ninjette.org guru Name: Joel Location: Sandy Eggo north Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378	Hmm, thanx guys, I'll check them both and see if there's any air. . .

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