[M13] If a dealer talks a new rider out of buying a ninjette...

[akima]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Do you agree with Mordeth 13?

I definitely think it's irresponsible and morally wrong for a dealer to talk a new rider into buying a ninja 1000 when they want a ninjette.

I also think that it's down to the adult to make their own decisions and do the necessary research on any given dangerous activity before plowing head first into it (literally, when buying a sports bike!)

Ultimately I don't agree with Mordeth 13. I don't think it should be possible to sue the dealer. However if I was a family member of someone who got killed indirectly because of that dealer's bad, self-serving advice, then I'd give that dealer absolute hell and I'd try and let other people know (through word of mouth and reviews etc) the true nature of that dealer.

Interesting problem posed by M13!

[Renner]

The problem with this case and liability is its all he said she said...there will be no proof as to the dealer talking the guy out of the 250. Without facts it would never hold up on court.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Renner

The problem with this case and liability is its all he said she said...there will be no proof as to the dealer talking the guy out of the 250. Without facts it would never hold up on court.

Do you think if there was an audio recording of the conversation which was admissible as evidence, the dealer should still be prosecuted? As-in... do you think it's right to criminally prosecute him for what that dealer did, or do you think the law shouldn't be involved with a situation like that?

[Renner]

Originally Posted by akima

Do you think if there was an audio recording of the conversation which was admissible as evidence, the dealer should still be prosecuted? As-in... do you think it's right to criminally prosecute him for what that dealer did, or do you think the law shouldn't be involved with a situation like that?

I personally don't think the law should be involved in a case like this. It would be like prosecuting each gas station that I ever bought cigars from in my life because it lead to lung cancer (I hope that is not the case)

The dealer should have a moral responsibility to do this as a good person, BUT there is no law that states motorcycle riders should be right fit into a product that fits their ability.

I WOULD however vote for a law that states people have to start with 250cc and lower bikes until a certain amount of riding time has been done, which I think they do that in Europe, but I might be mistaken.

The problem with said law above is that how do you prove the biker actually rode those certain miles.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Renner

I personally don't think the law should be involved in a case like this. It would be like prosecuting each gas station that I ever bought cigars from in my life because it lead to lung cancer (I hope that is not the case)

The dealer should have a moral responsibility to do this as a good person, BUT there is no law that states motorcycle riders should be right fit into a product that fits their ability.

I am of the same opinion.

Originally Posted by Renner

I WOULD however vote for a law that states people have to start with 250cc and lower bikes until a certain amount of riding time has been done, which I think they do that in Europe, but I might be mistaken.

The problem with said law above is that how do you prove the biker actually rode those certain miles.

In the United Kingdom we have those kind of restrictions.

For someone 18 years or older
CBT = 125 CC max. you do a one day course to get your CBT.
Non-DA = 250 CC max. takes about a week of training to pass this test. you have to wait 2 years before you're auto upgraded to a DA license.
DA = any CC

I currently have a Non-DA license, but I don't intend to get a bigger bike even when my license auto-upgrades to a DA license.

It's actually more complicated than I just explained and any day now it's going to get even more complicated. The government is adding additional power bands and intermediate tests. I've already done my Non-DA test though so none of the new rules will apply to me... so July 2013 I can get the 2013-model 4000CC supercharged busa that I dreamed of owning ever since I was a little girl with my bicycle with pink tassles

[Renner]

Originally Posted by akima

I am of the same opinion.



In the United Kingdom we have those kind of restrictions.

For someone 18 years or older
CBT = 125 CC max. you do a one day course to get your CBT.
Non-DA = 250 CC max. takes about a week of training to pass this test. you have to wait 2 years before you're auto upgraded to a DA license.
DA = any CC

I currently have a Non-DA license, but I don't intend to get a bigger bike even when my license auto-upgrades to a DA license.

It's actually more complicated than I just explained and any day now it's going to get even more complicated. The government is adding additional power bands and intermediate tests. I've already done my Non-DA test though so none of the new rules will apply to me... so July 2013 I can get the 2013-model 4000CC supercharged busa that I dreamed of owning ever since I was a little girl with my bicycle with pink tassles

See I would vote yes on this licensing here in the states but I don't think it would ever pass

[akima]

It's interesting that so many people I meet seem to lump the ninjette in with the 125CC bikes, but it's interesting to see how our legal system clearly separates 125CC from 250CC. For a 125CC license you only need to pass a very easy day course. To get the 250CC license you need to do about a week of training and pass 3 separate tests (tests which many people fail on their first attempt).

[xSean13]

While something like that would be helpful and probably help reduce a number of accidents, people should have the choice to ride whatever they want; government doesn't need to get involved with our freedoms. Just like those stupid states on the west coast where certain beverages and snacks are banned. While the stuff may not be the best thing for us, it's our freedom to choose what we want.

[akima]

Originally Posted by xSean13

While something like that would be helpful and probably help reduce a number of accidents, people should have the choice to ride whatever they want; government doesn't need to get involved with our freedoms. Just like those stupid states on the west coast where certain beverages and snacks are banned. While the stuff may not be the best thing for us, it's our freedom to choose what we want.

Despite seeing the stats on lives that have been saved by these relatively-new motorcycle laws, I still agree with you. Freedom is more important. When you become an adult it's your life and you should be free to make both good and bad decisions for yourself.

Seeing some "adults" around me though I do wonder if they do actually need a government daddy-figure looking after them lol It's like they're still children: they still blame their mistakes on other people and they still expect the government to solve all their problems.

[akima]

This is the [much longer] part 1 video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[csmith12]

No... no.... no.... Nothing of the sort! No additional laws are needed. Buy the bike you want even if you don't have the skills at the time of purchase. That don't mean you can't be trained using alternative methods or even on a different bike. I can buy any car I want, even without a valid lic. This is no different.

There are enough bullsh*t laws now and I don't wanna live in the Socialist Republic of the United States.

[dfox]

the problem is, the general public is not intelligent. It's extremely sad that it's gotten to the point that Americans need the government to step in to help them maintain a healthy lifestyle. The obesity rate has proven that Americans CANNOT make informed decisions about their own health, such that it's impacting everyone via healthcare costs. And a large CC motorcycle doesn't only pose a threat to the rider, it poses a threat to everyone on the road.

I am personally, all for more restrictions on car and motorcycle licenses. Driving ANYTHING on the road is a privilege, not a right. while i don't necessarily agree with a time requirement, I do agree with skills tests to show that you, as a rider, can handle and are responsible enough for a faster motorcycle. The same thing goes for cars. I don't want to see anyone on the road who has been in 7 at fault accidents, driving in a ford F350, or a corvette. They have proven that they are not responsible enough for such a large or fast vehicle. They endanger everyone else on the road, and therefore, it is the government's responsibility to step in and protect the general public from idiots.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by dfox

the problem is, the general public is not intelligent. It's extremely sad that it's gotten to the point that Americans need the government to step in to help them maintain a healthy lifestyle. The obesity rate has proven that Americans CANNOT make informed decisions about their own health, such that it's impacting everyone via healthcare costs. And a large CC motorcycle doesn't only pose a threat to the rider, it poses a threat to everyone on the road.

I am personally, all for more restrictions on car and motorcycle licenses. Driving ANYTHING on the road is a privilege, not a right. while i don't necessarily agree with a time requirement, I do agree with skills tests to show that you, as a rider, can handle and are responsible enough for a faster motorcycle. The same thing goes for cars. I don't want to see anyone on the road who has been in 7 at fault accidents, driving in a ford F350, or a corvette. They have proven that they are not responsible enough for such a large or fast vehicle. They endanger everyone else on the road, and therefore, it is the government's responsibility to step in and protect the general public from idiots.

Even if I was supporting additional restrictions, it should NOT be enforced at the time of purchase. Maybe should be enforced during the licensing step. Or your riding it illegally.

Like I said, the government has no business how or what I spend my $$ on, however... I do support the laws of the road to keep a relative amount of sanity and safety.

And on a side note* The government should have zero influence on what/how I eat either. All that crap is a symptom of the health care cost, fatness is NOT the source of the problem. Who pays is. Many welfare case families drive a car and are involved in accidents that require medical services that tax payers pay for. Do we want the gov. to step in and deny them the "privilege" to drive because they wreck? Don't think so....

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by dfox

the problem is, the general public is not intelligent

Amen to that too.....

[Renner]

Originally Posted by akima

It's interesting that so many people I meet seem to lump the ninjette in with the 125CC bikes

From my experience those are also the people that think the 250cc Ninja is only for girls. Stupidity is strong in many

[akima]

Originally Posted by Renner

From my experience those are also the people that think the 250cc Ninja is only for girls.

I know right! So unfair to imply that guys wouldn't have the skill to ride it

[Jiggles]

Would you rather protect people from themselves with the government or with knowledge?

If people want to be stupid let them be! Evolution cannot happen unless the weak are weeded out.

[akima]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Would you rather protect people from themselves with the government or with knowledge?

If people want to be stupid let them be! Evolution cannot happen unless the weak are weeded out.

[PsHYk]

Originally Posted by Renner

It would be like prosecuting each gas station that I ever bought cigars from in my life because it lead to lung cancer (I hope that is not the case)

no well you wouldnt prosecute the gas station it would be the cigar/cigarette company but they have the labels on there that warn you and that keep them from getting sued...


but actually here is an actual story about me...

ok so i started looking into buying a bike. i searched on craigslist,looked online, asked people if they knew anyone selling everything. then i talked to one of my friends and he said (knowing i never rode before) you should look into the 250 ...even though he has a 929... and he said it didnt have a lot of power but since i was new to riding it would be a great bike to start with. so i looked for bike still trying to see what the best deal was what i should get and found a couple 600s that were affordable and still i was kinda no feeling it cus they were used and had small things wrong with them or just because i didnt know what i was getting into. so then i went to the kawi site and seen that a brand new 2012 was only 4k and some change looked for a dealership and BAM!!! one near me. i went and just like the video. the dealer asked me had i ever rode before. i told him no... HE shows me the ZX-14R... i liked it felt too big i said no i think i want to try to start with a 250 plus i feel more comfortable on it cus i can reach the ground. he says like in the video " well in a month or so blah blah blah" i and i was like youre probably right but maybe i should get a 600 either way just in case that does happen. went on my first ride felt like a bitch cus all the big bikes were leaving me behind but it was also because i sucked at turns. i went back to the dealership thinking about a 600 but here he goes again...the dealer told me to look at the ZX-14 again and that the guy that rides it professionally is about my size and blah blah blah and for 2 weeks keeps calling me telling me i should get it and i tell him no im just keeping my 250 till i get better a week later calls again and tell me one more time have i thought about the ZX-14 and i tell him that im good finally after a month he hasnt called back... i know long story not very exiting shouldnt have just got to the point i guess... =/ but after 1 month of riding im glad i have my 250 =D

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by PsHYk

no well you wouldnt prosecute the gas station it would be the cigar/cigarette company but they have the labels on there that warn you and that keep them from getting sued...


but actually here is an actual story about me...

ok so i started looking into buying a bike. i searched on craigslist,looked online, asked people if they knew anyone selling everything. then i talked to one of my friends and he said (knowing i never rode before) you should look into the 250 ...even though he has a 929... and he said it didnt have a lot of power but since i was new to riding it would be a great bike to start with. so i looked for bike still trying to see what the best deal was what i should get and found a couple 600s that were affordable and still i was kinda no feeling it cus they were used and had small things wrong with them or just because i didnt know what i was getting into. so then i went to the kawi site and seen that a brand new 2012 was only 4k and some change looked for a dealership and BAM!!! one near me. i went and just like the video. the dealer asked me had i ever rode before. i told him no... HE shows me the ZX-14R... i liked it felt too big i said no i think i want to try to start with a 250 plus i feel more comfortable on it cus i can reach the ground. he says like in the video " well in a month or so blah blah blah" i and i was like youre probably right but maybe i should get a 600 either way just in case that does happen. went on my first ride felt like a bitch cus all the big bikes were leaving me behind but it was also because i sucked at turns. i went back to the dealership thinking about a 600 but here he goes again...the dealer told me to look at the ZX-14 again and that the guy that rides it professionally is about my size and blah blah blah and for 2 weeks keeps calling me telling me i should get it and i tell him no im just keeping my 250 till i get better a week later calls again and tell me one more time have i thought about the ZX-14 and i tell him that im good finally after a month he hasnt called back... i know long story not very exiting shouldnt have just got to the point i guess... =/ but after 1 month of riding im glad i have my 250 =D

Well, the dealers of course will try to sell you up. Side note, separate that wall of text into paragraphs before Jiggles sees it :P

[akima]

@PsHYk: it's great you resisted!

[PsHYk]

Originally Posted by xSean13

Well, the dealers of course will try to sell you up. Side note, separate that wall of text into paragraphs before Jiggles sees it :P

ahh... well i know its not the greatest but im not a writer or anything so ill leave it like that if he makes fun of me then ill just be a sad for a bit but ill get over it...

Originally Posted by akima

@PsHYk: it's great you resisted!

yeah i almost gave in though just so i could be the baddest mofo around but then i decided to be the livest (if thats even a word) mofo around =D

[akima]

You're cute @PsHYk!

[PsHYk]

@akima ... WHOA!!!

[TnNinjaGirl]

I don't think America should have laws requiring people to ride a certain cc bike for a certain amount of time (though I think it is a good idea)

I also don't think a person/family should be able to sue a salesperson/dealership for selling someone a 600/liter for their first bike (though I think it might be a good idea).

I don't want anyone to be able to tell me what to do with my time or money so I don't agree with the laws. However, most people are quite ignorant and should probably be bound by laws.

Also, people should be able to buy whatever bike they chose. Besides, the salesperson may have talked them into a 600 but they didn't sign the papers. "Sorry Junior was an idiot and did everything he is told, but he's the one who signed the papers to pay for and receive the bike."

[akima]

^ Love the fact that so many people on this forum really care about freedom and are aware of government danger. Maybe it's part of American culture? Over here it's quite different Maybe as things get worse here, more people will change their minds.

[TnNinjaGirl]

/\ I carry a gun too

[akima]

^ lmao. I think there are better ways of conveying your thoughts than punching

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

/\ I carry a gun too

Rawr.... LOL

[akima]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Rawr.... LOL

Well... I carry a wooden hairbrush!! Lets see someone try something against me! I'll prod them to the ground

Am I as cool as TnNinjaGirl?

[TnNinjaGirl]

Originally Posted by akima

^ lmao. I think there are better ways of conveying your thoughts than punching

lol you read it before I changed it. You are quick squirrel


Seriously, though.... I think if we had less babysitting then people would be more responsible for themselves and therefore need less babysitting (hah! ya right! Darwin Awards for everybody!)

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by akima

Well... I carry a wooden hairbrush!! Lets see someone try something against me! I'll prod them to the ground

Am I as cool as TnNinjaGirl?

Yesh

Rawr fer u 2 :P

[akima]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Yesh

Rawr fer u 2 :P

lmao... I will treasure my stingray "rawr"

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by akima

lmao... I will treasure my stingray "rawr"

4everrrrrrr?

[Jiggles]

New York wants to ban the sale of soda

San Francisco banned cigarettes being sold in pharmacies (shouldn't they also ban alcohol, sugary sweets, and computer duster???)

This has to be the most retarded aspect of the liberal agenda (not trying to get political here, liberals and conservatives both suck a massive amount of balls). I mean holy ****, do we really need to baby proof america? People can't make decisions for themselves? It's appalling that laws like this are even considered.

1. Pussify America
2. Enslave them through laws
3. ????
4. Profit!

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

New York wants to ban the sale of soda

San Francisco banned cigarettes being sold in pharmacies (shouldn't they also ban alcohol, sugary sweets, and computer duster???)

This has to be the most retarded aspect of the liberal agenda (not trying to get political here, liberals and conservatives both suck a massive amount of balls). I mean holy ****, do we really need to baby proof america? People can't make decisions for themselves? It's appalling that laws like this are even considered.

1. Pussify America
2. Enslave them through laws
3. ????
4. Profit!

what? you dont like the .gov being your nanny?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by lgk

what? you dont like the .gov being your nanny?

lol

And it's not even just the politicians in power. There are dumbshits that actually think like this. People who want to impose their will on others with laws that think these politicians are correct. I impose my will on others through logical arguments and if they don't listen I don't suddenly think "Oh we need to pass a law to force people to start on small bikes! Oh and another law forcing people to be ATGATT!!!"

[TnNinjaGirl]

Originally Posted by jiggles

i ... Think "oh we need to pass a law to force people to start on small bikes! Oh and another law forcing people to be atgatt!!!"

commie bastard!!!!

[lgk]

Originally Posted by tnninjagirl

commie bastard!!!!

burn him!!!!!111!!

[ninja250r81]

Motorcycle toll drops by 10%

That’s over the past 12 months in Australia, as motorcycle registrations continue to rise and the death per 10,000 riders ratio continues to decline

The Australian Motorcycle Council has welcomed news that motorcycle fatalities in Australia have dropped by 10% percent over the past 12 months, at the same time as motorcycle registrations continue to increase.

AMC chairman, Shaun Lennard, has noted the figures contained in two reports released to coincide with the first anniversary of the launch of the UN Decade of Action for Road Safety.

The Bureau for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics (BITRE) recently released its 2011 Statistical Summary on Australian road deaths, and also the most recent version of its monthly review of road deaths – this latest to the 12 months ended April, 2012. The 2011 report contains two sets of figures relating to motorcyclists – the raw numbers of fatalities and deaths per 10,000 registrations.

“In raw numbers, there was a 10 percent decline in the 2011 year – 201 deaths was the lowest number in seven years,” said Lennard. “So far this year the trend is maintained, with the 12 months to April 2012 showing a 10.4 percent drop over the previous 12 months.”

One hundred and ninety eight motorcyclists were killed on Australian roads in the 12 months to 30 April.

“But it’s when analysing deaths per 10,000 registrations, you see just how significantly the situation has actually improved over time,” Lennard continued. “From 2002-2006, this remained at around five deaths per 10,000 registrations. So as the number of riders started to increase significantly, so too the number of deaths.

“But this has changed markedly and consistently over the past six years. The rate in 2011 was just under two deaths per 10,000. There was a 12.7 percent decrease last year alone, and an average of 6.7 percent decrease for the past decade.

“This number is still way too high. Every single road death represents a tragic set of circumstances for everyone involved. But at least it’s a good sign to see the motorcycle toll now below 200. Below 100 would be far better.

“We’re not getting overly-excited about just one set of figures – however the trend is continuing to go in the right direction,” he concluded. “Riding a motorcycle or scooter in Australia has never been safer.”

http://www.bikesales.com.au/news/201...-percent-30926

Guess what! the motorcycle mandatory testing was introduced 8 years ago

Thanks to motorcycle awareness training

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...cle/index.html

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/tests/index.html