Lusting after a smaller bike?? Insane??

[MistahT]

I daily a 2012 FZ6R (or I did til I hit some black ice while leaned over in December and now I've been taking the cage til the roads warm up.... been hovering around 30 here in the daytime). This fall when my wife got her license we got her a pregen 250. I admit at first I thought it was massively underpowered, but still thought a fun bike.

Fast forward a few months. Stripped her bike down to paint a new color for her, but also fix lots of little broken bits. Want it to be as close to perfect mechanically as possible for my wife (and for me when I want to ride it).

Monday and today the temp is in the 30s... but yesterday I got home from work and it was 55! Time to ride!! Rode my bike about an hour. Top heavy, tires aren't super grippy in general, cold roads make it worse, still kind of nervous about leaning too much. Then I took the Ninja out to see if my fixes are all holding. First time it's seen a road since November/December. MAN! I LOVE THIS THING! Keeping the revs in the stratosphere it didn't seem as slow as it used to, it was a blast, and even on ice cold roads I had lots of confidence.

If I didn't have 2 years left on my loan, I would consider trading the FZ in for a Ninja 300.... am I insane?

[adouglas]

NO. You are not insane. You are displaying intelligence and wisdom.

Many of us older guys (you know, those of us who have gotten past the need to impress anyone) have gone steadily smaller in displacement over the years.

Wait a minute… that didn't come out right…. ahem……

We've chosen smaller bikes. In my own case, my first bike was a 650, then a 500, and now I ride a 250. The 250 is the best of the lot, hands down.

250s are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, cheaper to fix, cheaper to insure.

You can have HUGE fun on a 250 if you keep the revs up (by which I mean UP… like 10k is where the fun stuff happens). It's light, flickable, and more of a tool that you wield than a big beast you try to hang onto.

It is more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike at the ragged edge of your ability. Grab a handful of throttle on a supersport and you could very well wind up either in the trees or having a conversation with your local blue-clad enforcers of the law. Grab a handful of throttle on a Ninjette and it's FUN!!!! (It's still got enough spunk for you to lose your license, though.)

It's fast enough for anything you want to do on the street.

Provided you're not a huge person (too big for the bike anyway), it CAN be used to tour solo. I did it… 2500 miles over the course of a week. It was fine and I had NO problems at all.

It is not underpowered. I commute on mine all the time, on the highway. The power to weight is comparable to an economy car.

I would not, however, carry a passenger. That's asking too much in my mind.

If you want a sportier experience, it's easy to modify with rearsets, clipons and aftermarket exhaust that really does make a big difference in power (AreaP full system). I have all these mods on my 08 and the bike is wonderful.

If wishes were fishes I'd like a bike with fully adjustable suspension, but that's just the tinkering geek in me talking. I have yet to detect anything actually wrong with the stock suspension.

And perhaps the best reason: You get to hang out with us. I'd like to introduce you to this guy named Jiggles……

PS: There's a world of difference between the pregen you're familiar with and the 300. Putting that exhaust on mine and jetting it took it from "okay, nice, fun" with 25 horse at the rear wheel to "hey, this thing is COOL!!!" with just shy of 30, measured on the dyno. The 300 comes stock with more than that, and an AreaP full system takes it up to the upper 30s.

[MistahT]

Thanks for the response! I actually started slowly too on 50cc scooters, then 150cc, then got a GS500 and now the FZ6R. I think in the future I will be moving down in displacement though. Since my wife takes the cage to work (still new rider, highway commute, don't blame her) I think I will be taking her Ninja more than my Yami.

...I just can't stop thinking about my ride on the ninja yesterday...

[SMman]

I am another rider who has steadily gone down in displacement: 2003 Honda VFR800, 2003 Kawasaki ZX-6R, 2007 Suzuki DR-Z400SM, 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R. I had a moment of weakness and snatched up a 2006 Honda CRF450R motard as a track toy. Another bike to consider besides the Ninja 300 is KTM's Duke 390 which will be arriving in 2014. I'm hoping to sell the DR-Z to pick one up.

[sharky nrk]

I don't think it is wrong or right just a matter of preference. Personally I love my 250, alot. It gets ridden more than my 6R does for sure, but when I want to be on the 6R nothing else satisfies. Riding a small bike/slow bike fast is much more rewarding without a doubt but expectations and purpose play a big part.

I do know that if I was allowed to only have one bike, it would not be the 6R.

[nautica]

Originally Posted by adouglas

NO. You are not insane. You are displaying intelligence and wisdom.

Many of us older guys (you know, those of us who have gotten past the need to impress anyone) have gone steadily smaller in displacement over the years.

I may be a minority with this but I disagree. First, anyone who buys a bike to impress people shouldn't really be on a bike anyway. Wanting a slower bike doesn't make someone more intelligent it simply means what they want out of the bike is different. I enjoyed the 250 for what it was but my desires changed so I moved on to a 600 which fits my needs just fine, but does that make me less intelligent? I didn't buy it to flaunt the power or grab attention by acting like an idiot I simply bought it because I think it is an all around better bike. I know the perception around here from a lot of people is that anything faster then the 250/300 is only overkill and in my mind those are the people who are misinformed or have no idea what they're even talking about, which is usually the case. So statements like that make it seem like you're like the plenty of others on here. Don't take this as a personal attack but it is annoying when people act like the ninja is the end all be all bike when it really isn't. It is a great bike for what it is but the reality is for many others there are plenty of other bikes that are better suited for them.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by nautica

I enjoyed the 250 for what it was but my desires changed so I moved on to a 600 which fits my needs just fine

^^I think this statement

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

but when I want to be on the 6R nothing else satisfies

and ^^this statement go hand in hand.

It's all about what bike fits your needs and what you enjoy riding. MistahT, if you want a 300 because you enjoy riding a ninjette, don't worry about being crazy! The same could be said if you were looking for endless power to go touring and decided a Connie was right for you. As long as it suits your riding needs, go for it!

I don't think you're crazy at all.

[tnr4]

Nothing crazy about it. Started on a pre-gen. Thought I NEEDED to UPGRADE. Got a Street Triple and boy is that thing amazing. What a fantastic machine. But for the kind of riding I did on it, I just didn't need 100hp or 30mpg. When the 300 came out, the Streety went for sale. As long as I can afford two bikes, I'll keep the 300 forever. It would be ridiculous to get rid of it, unless I had to in order to afford whatever my next object of lust is.

Funny enough: I would love a FZ6 for a second bike. The only thing the 300 isn't great for is two-up or multiple 400mi/day trips. I think the Fazer would be great for that.

[MistahT]

Originally Posted by tnr4

Funny enough: I would love a FZ6 for a second bike. The only thing the 300 isn't great for is two-up or multiple 400mi/day trips. I think the Fazer would be great for that.

Haven't spent any time on an FZ6 Fazer, I have an FZ6R. I do love riding 2 up on my FZ6R though, imagine they are both great for it. My old GS500 felt like it was going to break!! On the 6R it's almost like there's no one back there until you go to brake, which again, really doesn't suffer too much.

[Gurk]

You are insane. 250's and 300's aren't the right tool to impress hotties or your noob friends. Do what I do and get an R6.

[MistahT]

Originally Posted by Gurk

You are insane. 250's and 300's aren't the right tool to impress hotties or your noob friends. Do what I do and get an R6.

Just to play devil's advocate here (especially to the guys with ZX-6Rs, R6s, and triples)....

I only spent a few minutes in a parking lot on a 600cc SS once and I wasn't a terribly experienced rider at the time, so real SS experience is zero. Except for the different riding stance and engine dynamics, would a SS feel light and nimble like the Ninja and handle like one? I see the biggest thing I prefer the Ninja 250 for is the handling. (Let's face it, more power would be great. I love the butterflies in my stomach going fast in a straight line, but in the heirarchy of riding, it's my least important)




I hope this isn't gonna start a flame war, just bringing it up in this thread because it seems to be relevant

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by MistahT

Except for the different riding stance and engine dynamics, would a SS feel light and nimble like the Ninja and handle like one? I see the biggest thing I prefer the Ninja 250 for is the handling.

For this question, I summon @csmith12

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by nautica

I may be a minority with this but I disagree. First, anyone who buys a bike to impress people shouldn't really be on a bike anyway. Wanting a slower bike doesn't make someone more intelligent it simply means what they want out of the bike is different.

Don't get me wrong here.... I'm not slamming anyone for riding a supersport. In fact I very much want one for my next bike, largely because I've never owned one and I'd like to have that experience before I get too old and stiff to enjoy it.

However, it's not uncommon for those who do ride SS bikes to be dismissive of smaller motorcycles. These are the guys who seriously believe an R6 is a beginner bike.

Someone who has a larger bike and appreciates the virtues of a small, light, nimble, economical-yet-fun machine is therefore, IMHO, displaying intelligence and wisdom. It's not about displacement... it's about having an open mind.

[Gurk]

Originally Posted by MistahT

Just to play devil's advocate here (especially to the guys with ZX-6Rs, R6s, and triples)....

I only spent a few minutes in a parking lot on a 600cc SS once and I wasn't a terribly experienced rider at the time, so real SS experience is zero. Except for the different riding stance and engine dynamics, would a SS feel light and nimble like the Ninja and handle like one? I see the biggest thing I prefer the Ninja 250 for is the handling. (Let's face it, more power would be great. I love the butterflies in my stomach going fast in a straight line, but in the heirarchy of riding, it's my least important)




I hope this isn't gonna start a flame war, just bringing it up in this thread because it seems to be relevant

just incase : my post was 100% sarcasm.

on to the answer to your question, NO. 600 SS aren't gonna feel as nimble in a parking lot. It's not made with parking lot maneuvers in mind. Can it be done? Sure. Check gymkhana. But if I cared about small city riding etc, I wouldn't buy a 600cc SS.

Then again I don't ride on street. I ride for track and speed.

Would I still buy SS for street? YES. Because I'm not passionate about riding motorcycles. I never was. I'm only into racebikes/super sports. I always have been that way. I bought the 250 with the intention of buying a 600cc SS one day.

Tracking a 250 vs a 600 vs a 1000 is even a different sport in my view. For sure things transfer well from small to larger bikes. But the more riding styles on these different cc machines i see, the more i realize how different you have to approach each category of bike. I laugh when 250 riders say things like "just full throttle broooo" in corners. Yeah. Not so much.

So each bike has its own application. Even different race bikes need to be ridden different IMO.
Buy a 250 if you like it! 600cc SS won't come close to its nimbleness.

Sorry it's more than what you asked for. Just bored




EDIT: I wanted to add a little story. I'm back in Turkey (home) for vacation. I have a friend here who works as a motorcycle courier. Those are popular in here. He has a Honda CBF-125. They don't even exist back in US. Yesterday I took it for a ride. We then rode 2 up (giggity). He said if he didn't know me he'd think I was riding for the first time. Doesn't surprise me at all! Cause the thing felt completely different from what I'm used to. Think 250. But EVEN MORE FLICKABLE! I found it hard to keep it in a line. From its rake and trail to its tire thickness and suspension.. Everything made it so alien to me. So yeah... different bikes, different styles. It's stupid to judge anything or compare IMO.



Except cruisers... cruisers are gay.

[MistahT]

Originally Posted by Gurk

Sorry it's more than what you asked for. Just bored

Actually I'm a teacher, LOVE TO LEARN, and would love to hear any input you have.

[nautica]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Don't get me wrong here.... I'm not slamming anyone for riding a supersport. In fact I very much want one for my next bike, largely because I've never owned one and I'd like to have that experience before I get too old and stiff to enjoy it.

However, it's not uncommon for those who do ride SS bikes to be dismissive of smaller motorcycles. These are the guys who seriously believe an R6 is a beginner bike.

Someone who has a larger bike and appreciates the virtues of a small, light, nimble, economical-yet-fun machine is therefore, IMHO, displaying intelligence and wisdom. It's not about displacement... it's about having an open mind.

I agree except for the last part. While I know how the ninja handles and like how nimble it is that doesn't mean that if someone chooses one that it makes more sense to choose that over lets say a SS. I still fail to see how choosing a 250 displays more intelligence than another bike. It's like saying if you don't have a Honda as a dd then your vehicle isn't the most practical thing. What's practical to you could be a lot different to someone else and that's doesn't make them any smarter than you or I. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by nautica

I still fail to see how choosing a 250 displays more intelligence than another bike.

He said "You are not insane. You are displaying intelligence and wisdom.

not "more" why so defensive

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by nautica

I still fail to see how choosing a 250 displays more intelligence than another bike.

I say again: You're reading something into the post that is not there.

Making what IMHO is an intelligent choice does not mean that it is the only intelligent choice. Nor does it imply that any given choice is unwise in its proper context.

Moving to a 250 is a wise decision in my view for all the reasons cited. That's as far as the statement goes. How does that in any way imply that any other choice is less intelligent? The OP wanted to know if trading his Yami for a 300 is a nutty idea. It isn't. It's a great idea. That's all.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to ride a big bike. There's nothing wrong with choosing to ride ANY bike if it floats your boat. It's all about what you value and what you need.

This isn't "my way is better than your way." That's the point of view that has our whole country in such a mess. It's "my way has merit and is worth considering." That's different.

[nautica]

Maybe I am reading into it way too much just came across to me as the smartest choice for someone is a 250 and I disagreed, but that's how I interpreted it. I'm use to extremists putting there view out there as the only right thing to do, so my fault.

[MistahT]

Clearing things up:

250 is a smart choice. Riding within your limits, cheap to insurance, gas, etc. Not trying to pop-wheelies and show-off.

Also agree that other bikes are not necessarily bad choices. It's up to the rider, their skill level, and what they want out of it. I commute, go on 3-6 hour rides at least twice a month when the weather is nice, and am looking for fun over outright power. Also my current bike is starting to feel a bit heavy. A Ninja 250r/300 would fit the bill nicely.



I really appreciate all the positive discussion this has brought up!

[Jiggles]

A 1300 is all you really need

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by MistahT

Just to play devil's advocate here (especially to the guys with ZX-6Rs, R6s, and triples)....

I only spent a few minutes in a parking lot on a 600cc SS once and I wasn't a terribly experienced rider at the time, so real SS experience is zero. Except for the different riding stance and engine dynamics, would a SS feel light and nimble like the Ninja and handle like one? I see the biggest thing I prefer the Ninja 250 for is the handling. (Let's face it, more power would be great. I love the butterflies in my stomach going fast in a straight line, but in the heirarchy of riding, it's my least important)

Originally Posted by choneofakind

For this question, I summon @csmith12

This is relative to the impression, confidence, physical condition and experience of the rider. A new SS rider may feel like a bigger bike is harder to turn. An experienced rider knows when to turn vs. how far open the throttle is. An even more experienced rider knows how to set up a bike to make turns even easier.

In the corners with no or mild throttle, V profile tires, chassis adjustments and a great suspension setup, my R6 inspires a flick rate equal to the 250, it does take a bit more muscle to throw around though. Get the R6 or most other SS's wound up, and they are hard to turn against the force of hard acceleration from the engine. Which is why they say it's best to complete your turn in to set your line before rolling on the throttle. Fast chicanes are a good example of this.

So the fundamentals are there to get a SS over just as fast as a 250. A well set up modern SS will fall over as hard as you countersteer it. If it's hard to turn, your not pushing hard enough, simple as that. Although there are subtle differences in style as Gurk pointed out.

The main difference I see from tracking both SS's and the 250 is braking markers vs a modern SS. Part of that is simply speed related though. It just takes longer to scrub off 60mph more and the braking forces are stronger. But in all honesty, my turn in points on the track are very close to the R6's. The braking markers however...... hahahahhahahah not even close. It took me some time to get confident in how fast I can throw the R6 down and set my line. Before that, I would go deeper into the corner before turn in on my 250.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by nautica

I still fail to see how choosing a 250 displays more intelligence than another bike.

cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to repair or replace. tires cost half as much and last twice as long. gas mileage is way better.

Let's be real, riding an SS is about showing off. Not saying they aren't fun, just that there is no need for one. I'd compare it to an exotic car. Is a Lamborghini practical, no. Does anyone who drives one give a f*#%, nope.

[csmith12]

Read up on "quick flick" and "hip flick" and you will have a better idea of what I mean. You can turn slow vs fast on just about any bike.

[nautica]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to repair or replace. tires cost half as much and last twice as long. gas mileage is way better.

Let's be real, riding an SS is about showing off. Not saying they aren't fun, just that there is no need for one. I'd compare it to an exotic car. Is a Lamborghini practical, no. Does anyone who drives one give a f*#%, nope.

Sure but if you can afford it then it's still practical in my opinion. And how do you figure an SS is for showing off? Most people don't know the difference between a 250 and a 600+ anyway. If that's how you feel then why don't you ride a scooter? Anything else is just showing off, right? Never mind the fact that there are other bikes out there that look and are more refined than a 250.

And I doubt anyone here cares what people think of their bike, they didn't buy it for anyone but themselves.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by nautica

And I doubt anyone here cares what people think of their bike, they didn't buy it for anyone but themselves.

Which is why, even though I could buy any bike I want, I'm getting the Ninja 300 for my next bike. Buying one in the next week or two for sure.

I like that it's different than the SS bikes, which are all basically the same. Plus the 300 just seems like the perfect bike for the street.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Which is why, even though I could buy any bike I want, I'm getting the Ninja 300 for my next bike. Buying one in the next week or two for sure.

I like that it's different than the SS bikes, which are all basically the same. Plus the 300 just seems like the perfect bike for the street.

The only thing that's different about it is that it has 1 front rotor

[ninjamunky85]

and half the cc's, but the looks are no different. The 300 is still unique though, because it's a 300.

The big four ss bikes are all the same, right down to the same inline 4 cylinder engines. All the same displacement/ even the same bore and stroke. They all sound and look basically the same. If I was to get an ss bike it would be the Daytona 675 just because it's different.

[Ben M]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, cheaper to repair or replace. tires cost half as much and last twice as long. gas mileage is way better.

Let's be real, riding an SS is about showing off. Not saying they aren't fun, just that there is no need for one. I'd compare it to an exotic car. Is a Lamborghini practical, no. Does anyone who drives one give a f*#%, nope.

I usually stay out of discussions like this, but In my opinion, what you just said is ridiculous. How is riding a SS just about showing off? Sure some people show off on them, but I'm guessing people show off with 250's and 300's as well. If someone with a SS takes their bike out every weekend to go canyon carving or go to the track or just to go on a fun ride, how is that showing off?

And to contribute to the thread, if you want a smaller bike, get one! Nothing wrong with downsizing if that's what you want.

[Old Lemon]

ive ridden monday through friday for the last 3 weeks. layer up and ride that thing

[nautica]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

and half the cc's, but the looks are no different. The 300 is still unique though, because it's a 300.

The big four ss bikes are all the same, right down to the same inline 4 cylinder engines. All the same displacement/ even the same bore and stroke. They all sound and look basically the same. If I was to get an ss bike it would be the Daytona 675 just because it's different.

You kind of contradict yourself. The 300 looks like a SS yet according to you all of the supersports look the same, which doesn't really make the 300 more/less special in my opinion. And the 636 is unique as well in the sense that it's not 599cc, but it's still a supersport and look just like the 300 with a scoop on the front.


This is a general statement, but I don't understand why people on this forum (and other forums) feel the need to explain why they want to purchase something, it's like they're trying to sell it to themselves and hope everyone agrees. Don't try and tell us how unique something is since chances are we don't all agree, it's all opinion. It's as simple as this, if you want to get a newer/older/faster/slower/uglier/pretier/etc. bike why does everyone seem to need to get approval from the community? It's like no one can make a decision for themself without support. You ride what you have because you liked it so why the hell do some people need opinions on what YOU should buy..

[SMman]

I've owned my 2003 ZX-6R since 2004. It is a great bike and is very flickable and surprisingly comfortable. I've enjoyed taking it on long trips, track schools, track days, etc. The suspension and brakes are much better than the Ninja 250R and my only complaint I have is I cannot ride it on the street at legal speeds. It is very boring at the speed limit but my DR-Z400SM and Ninja 250 are great for buzzing around the backroads, etc. at lower speeds.

I think you would find a 600ss lighter and more maneuverable compared to your FZ6R. Try to get a test ride on one before deciding what your next bike will be. I also highly recommend trying a supermoto.

The reason I have been going down in displacement is to keep my licence. I took my brother-in-law's 2007 R1 for a couple of rides. I loved the bike but absolutely could not own it and not end up behind bars.

I think the KTM Duke 390 is going to be the bike for me in a couple of years. Another bike that I have been lusting over is Triumph's Street Triple but 675cc's might be too much for me to behave on.

[tnr4]

Originally Posted by SMman

Anther bike that I have been lusting over is Triumph's Street Triple but 675cc's might be too much for me to behave on.

It is. I guarantee it. In addition to running into the triple digits so fast that your stomach is in your throat, the damn front wheel just won't stay on the pavement!

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by nautica

why does everyone seem to need to get approval from the community?

Why do you feel the need to tell me that a super sport is a practical bike.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Why do you feel the need to tell me that a super sport is a practical bike.

Where did he say that?

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by nautica

I moved on to a 600 which fits my needs just fine, I didn't buy it to flaunt the power or grab attention by acting like an idiot I simply bought it because I think it is an all around better bike. I know the perception around here from a lot of people is that anything faster then the 250/300 is only overkill and in my mind those are the people who are misinformed or have no idea what they're even talking about, which is usually the case.

I guess I'm just an idiot, but in my opinion a 600 is overkill for the street. Doesn't mean I won't get one some day, just not because I need it.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I guess I'm just an idiot, but in my opinion a 600 is overkill for the street.

You ever ridden one?

They're a great size engine/chassis combo. Get one with comfy seating like an older CBR, and it's a perfect street bike. Gets 45 mpg when ridden nicely. Lots of get up and go when you want it, comfy as heck, fantastic brakes, and they're very happy at highway commuting speeds all day long.

You don't have to ride hardcore or ride stupid to appreciate riding with the power and tech that a 600cc sport bike offers.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I guess I'm just an idiot, but in my opinion a 600 is overkill for the street. Doesn't mean I won't get one some day, just not because I need it.

A 600SS totally is overkill and unnecessary for the street Still fun though if you like that god awful riding posture.

And if you think a 600 is overkill wait till you try a 1000. I don't even know why they rev over 6k, completely unnecessary.

**** I think a 1000 is overkill and what am I getting next? A ****in 1300 i4 LOL

Damn that thing is going to be fun

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

and half the cc's, ...

...and USD forks.

[Jiggles]

Also its for girls