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Old May 15th, 2017, 08:06 PM   #1
Demonik
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Name: Robert "Doc"
Location: Seattle Area, Washington
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Motorcycle(s): '99 Buell X1, '09 Buell 1125R,'10 Kaw EX250 (down to one), '13 MV Agusta F3, '14 Buell EBR

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Hi from the PNW, struggling with idle and RPM build on a new rescue 250 project

(Edit: Update on the repairs / project bike: All is finished! Carbs are done, boiled them out, circuits were filthy, slow jets were plugged, floats frozen, needles frozen, gas in crankcase, plugs bad, vacuum leak on crank breather and coaster enricher, runs like NEW after complete PM, filters, all fluids, plugs, chain wax, and pretty much a new PDI. Needles now tuned to 3 turns out, airbox and exhaust at stock setup, starts with NO choke, warms to riding temp in under 2 mins at idle, 48-52 mpg, NO problems zipping at 70-80 mph in Seattle traffic with 5'9" 150lb experienced rider on her at ALL. This is a nice city bike that I'm glad we added to our garage.)



Just thought I'd drop in here and actually get a membership now that I've been wrenching a lot on a Kawasaki again! No sense in lurking.

A little about me: I'm not super new to bikes, and I probably have a lot of gems I could leave here on the forums.

I'm a 20-year Marine Officer, pilot. (I served 4 Enlisted) I try to get out and ride a safety course every year, if I am in country. I've been to race school twice. I ride safely, but I still flush traffic. I keep racing on the track. Not a douche, not a know-it-all. Super down to Earth.

I've a few bikes, I've owned a few, I sold a few bikes.

I wrecked a moped once trying to pick up bitches in front of a party doing a stoppie, I got road rash from it.

I've had some BMW's and a Honda race bike, a few Ninja 600's for street and track, and briefly went through a r6/r1 stint.

I currently have 3 Buells, 97 S1W, 99 X1RS, 14 EBR. I ALSO have this fun little Kawi 250 Ex that my wonderful girl rides around on and I've given a few putts on (it's a lot of fun to hooligan on and rides nice!) and I was a tech for BMW and Honda before I joined the Marines, so I've done my share of riding and professionally trained wrench spinning.

Anyhow, I'm working on this semi-new purchase of a EX250 with only a few hundred miles (this is my first time working on this bike) sorting out a low-speed lean problem with it and I'll be in and out of the forum as I bring it from a long-term hibernation. Basically, we picked it up from a girl who lived down a road that had pea gravel and although the 250 is SUPER LIGHT, she had zero confidence in her riding and parked it for 6 years and never rode it again.

When I went to go see it, it had a dead battery, bad gas in the airbox, flooded low-side cylinder, stuck carb floats, the plugs looked like ****, the ethanol in the local Washington gasoline had destroyed the inside of the carbs until they were just green frozen blobs, so nothing moved or even has open passages and it just puked fuel from the overflow vent tube.

The carbs were pulled and boiled out, the plugs cleaned, everything was safety checked, oil was drained from bad gas floating in it, all the PM was done, battery replaced, blah blah, jets were replaced, and I can't get the idle to clean up, so it has to idle at 2.5k to have enough throttle response to pull from a stop without stalling. I'm really struggling to get more throttle response out of a long 10-15 second patient hold-and-wait-build from 1.5k to about 2.5k before she wants to have enough power to even think about starting to slip that clutch out to roll forward. We're not even really talking about forward motion until really 4k sometimes if we're on a tiny incline, and really, that's about when the CV seems like it's opening up.

Once the main jets/slides/needles open, you feel that vacuum slice those slides up and it really comes alive. It's a peppy little bike you can ride like a drunk prom date in the back seat and you can get really naughty with her too. Twist that throttle, snip her gears, pull the hair, get a little rough, it's ok, it's really forgiving! It's NOT a Buell and dual-personality scalpel-in-hand-murder-machine-f-18, I seriously doubt you'll get jacked up hammering down on this 250 or running twisties with her at 20 over the speed limit by my house and then barking the throttle or trying to push some more lean in there. The brakes were clean and the clutch cleaned right up too.

So, what am I missing here? I didn't think I would need to open the dang idle mixture screws and adjust them off of factory settings for a stock bike. I just can't believe this rescue project is so jacked up. Thanks for any thoughts.

I'm not looking to mod the heck out of this bike, I just need to clean up the idle situation and get more torque down there and speed up throttle response to about 3-4k.

Last futzed with by Demonik; June 13th, 2017 at 08:57 AM. Reason: Follow-up on repairs and status
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Old May 15th, 2017, 08:23 PM   #2
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Demonik! Glad to have you aboard...
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Old May 15th, 2017, 08:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Demonik View Post
I'm a 20-year Marine Officer, pilot.
What airframe you on?
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Old May 16th, 2017, 02:00 AM   #4
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Demonic,
Glad to have you with us and WELCOME! I believe you have answered your own question in your post. She wont pull till you get enough RPM to pull the CV's in which adds fuel. Your description of the condition of the carbs was extremely graphic and holds the answer. Since this bike has a small displacement motor, the carbs are small and so are the passages and jets. You either knocked the floats out of adjustment or there is still stuff blocking the idle jets. You should pull the carbs again and confirm the float level is correct (idle goes dry first with low fuel) then recheck the idle passages. You may have to take a single strand of copper out of a piece of wire and run it thru the tiny openings. I have had good luck soaking the carbs (minus the rubber diaphrams) in SEA FOAM for a couple of days. My carbs were not as bad as yours but that stuff eats the gunk that gets stuck in there and makes it soft enough to get sucked out while running. Using the strand of wire to make a passage way for the cleaner to get into the most intimate places helps a lot.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out!
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Old May 16th, 2017, 10:33 AM   #5
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Old May 18th, 2017, 05:14 PM   #6
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:59 AM   #7
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Old May 28th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #8
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Old June 13th, 2017, 08:59 AM   #9
Demonik
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Name: Robert "Doc"
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Motorcycle(s): '99 Buell X1, '09 Buell 1125R,'10 Kaw EX250 (down to one), '13 MV Agusta F3, '14 Buell EBR

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Thanks for all the high-fives here and help on the other threads! I've come back to edit the post and provide an update on how things went. For a 250, you can really have a lot of fun with these.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 09:05 AM   #10
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I'm glad it's running well now. I suggest that if it doesn't need the enrichers for starting, you may be set a little too rich for when it's fully warm. When it's completely warmed up, the idle mixture screws should be set for maximum idle speed, erring on the very slightly rich side.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 09:12 AM   #11
Demonik
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Name: Robert "Doc"
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Motorcycle(s): '99 Buell X1, '09 Buell 1125R,'10 Kaw EX250 (down to one), '13 MV Agusta F3, '14 Buell EBR

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I was thinking that too Jim, however, we initially went and tuned for idle speed, then went back for a little richer mix so it ran better off of lights and stop signs at low RPM. We're at sea level and the first 30-seconds of startup could use enrichment if you wanted to play with the throttle, but letting it idle seems to be just fine.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 10:53 AM   #12
Triple Jim
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Cool. Good that your settings have thought behind them.
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Old June 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #13
NaturalFlavored
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How hard is it to remove the carb? I think I have something stuck in my Jets, it takes a minute for the bike to start up right.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 09:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonik View Post
For a 250, you can really have a lot of fun with these.
Truth! I'm seeing a lot of smaller bikes around since I started riding. It's not all about displacement.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 09:59 AM   #15
Demonik
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Name: Robert "Doc"
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Originally Posted by NaturalFlavored View Post
How hard is it to remove the carb? I think I have something stuck in my Jets, it takes a minute for the bike to start up right.
It takes about 10 minutes to collect the proper tools and safety equipment, 30 to remove the carbs, however long you take to clean them, 20-30 to reassemble, 10 minutes to clean up tools, 5 to wash hands.

I'm HIGHLY tempted to make a comprehensive video of this process on a stock 2010 with the airbox so that people can see how simple it really is, after reading about all the people who went running and pulling their hair out screaming about how crazy it was to work around the airbox drop or manifold lineup.

It's literally a non-issue. You just need some zen, a calm, well lit, warm place to work and the right tools for the job. Don't rush it and you won't have a searing back pain from bending over the bike making you want to rush and pry things or hack things off of it. Don't be afraid to stop and look at instructions.
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Old June 14th, 2017, 10:22 AM   #16
Demonik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Truth! I'm seeing a lot of smaller bikes around since I started riding. It's not all about displacement.
Agreed. Groms are nuts up here like clouds of flies some days. Those are like 8hp. If you're out having fun, that's that.

"I'm going 38 Dan, chill the F*UCK out. Mow your damn lawn and sit the hell down." -Macklemore, Seattle's finest artist

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old July 12th, 2017, 01:11 PM   #17
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welcome!
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