Upshifting - clutch or clutchless?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Alex

Clutchless downshifting isn't recommended. I wouldn't make it a habit.

+1 totally agree here. Though I know how to do it in case of an emergency clutch cable snap or something, I never actually clutchless downshift in practice. Clutchless upshifting is where it's at!

[kobachi]

I had two separate people walk up to me at track days, recommending that I start clutchless upshifting when accelerating in the straights. Both said that it sounded like I was burning through my clutch, and they were right -- the clutch slips for about half a second when you upshift in high (10.5K+) RPMs. From gear 3 on up, clutchless upshifting has been way smoother and it's easy to tell by listening that the bike likes it better. If I try to shift too close to the redline without the clutch, I usually miss the shift, but otherwise it works great.

[dark_beaverezt]

It's not that I'm encouraging it, but for me, it's one great way of shifting,,been doing it eversince, take note,,,clutchless upshifting, ayt>>> so, is anyone into this... what's your take...be heard...RIDE safe!!!!

[reaperw]

would this not be hard on the tranny

[alex.s]

depends on how much throttle i'm giving it... WOT == clutchless.

[dark_beaverezt]

naahh..shifting up is quite easy, you simply let off the throttle just a bit then shift.,,that would be no cause for alarm..I do it at any speed under most circumstances...ooopss,,don't forget the clutch when downshifting..RIDE safe!!

[paopufruit]

i dunno, i like using my clutch hand....otherwise i feel like im riding an automatic

[CoinSlot]

I made this little video when someone else asked about it. All this is clutchless shifting. Do it all day, every day.

Link to original page on Vimeo.

[Alex]

/merged

[coondog]

Originally Posted by reaperw

would this not be hard on the tranny

This poll shows 90% of membership shift with clutch most or all of the time. That would not only answer your question but convey that 90% of membership are also responsible riders most of the time. The other 10%, like alex s. or kevin2109 or cycnical c are irresponsible riders due to riding with their throttles wide open as much as possible, enabling them to shift clutchless all the time, like racers do on tracks. Their the guys you see everyday on the highway giving bikers a bad name by their irresponsible over the top speeding/multiple lane changing "gotta be numero uno" egos and other bad habit practices. Time will catch up to them, probably has in some cases to them and their ilk already, but unlike us they would never post in the "I went down" column.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading three pages of posts by riders who use their clutch, it's actually a way of telling others a bit about how you ride, which would be "responsibly." Happy Trails, Ride On!

[Alex]

It's gotta be happy hour somewhere...

[NDspd]

Originally Posted by CoinSlot

I made this little video when someone else asked about it. All this is clutchless shifting. Do it all day, every day.

Link to original page on Vimeo.

Very cool video man, looks like I'm doing it right. I don't do the clutchless upshift so much, I haven't got the timing down right yet.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by reaperw

would this not be hard on the tranny

No, once you get the hang of it its much smoother than using the clutch.

I rarely use the clutch going up other than 1st to 2nd or in heavy traffic.

Put a slight preload on the shifter, blip the throttle forward at the same time as you flick up on the shifter & it should work.

You can also do it by putting just the right amount of preload on the shifter & blipping off the throttle for a fraction of a second, but that takes more practise.

give it a try & see if it works well for ya. the first one or 2 may be clunky but you should get the hang of it after a couple of tries.

Originally Posted by coondog

This poll shows 90% of membership shift with clutch most or all of the time. That would not only answer your question but convey that 90% of membership are also responsible riders most of the time. Their the guys you see everyday on the highway giving bikers a bad name by their irresponsible over the top speeding/multiple lane changing "gotta be numero uno" egos and other bad habit practices. Time will catch up to them, probably has in some cases to them and their ilk already, but unlike us they would never post in the "I went down" column.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading three pages of posts by riders who use their clutch, it's actually a way of telling others a bit about how you ride, which would be "responsibly." Happy Trails, Ride On!

Not nessicarily, I hadn't heard of clutchless upshifting for the first 15 months or so that I had bikes. if during that time you asked the same question I'd of hit 'never' & thought why would you not use it?

Originally Posted by coondog

The other 10%, ... are irresponsible riders due to riding with their throttles wide open as much as possible, enabling them to shift clutchless all the time, like racers do on tracks.

It was explained to me that its a better way of up-shifting & how to do it properly I find its a much smoother way of going up the gears now & it feels like its more natural for the bike. I use it the vast majority of the time, both going for a quick spin & on my daily commute (where I am not wide open throttle all the time).

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by coondog

The other 10%, like alex s. or kevin2109 or cycnical c are irresponsible riders due to riding with their throttles wide open as much as possible. Their the guys you see everyday on the highway giving bikers a bad name by their irresponsible over the top speeding/multiple lane changing "gotta be numero uno" egos and other bad habit practices. Time will catch up to them, probably has in some cases to them and their ilk already, but unlike us they would never post in the "I went down" column.

I'm not exactly sure how I got dragged into this. I've never made a single post here or on any other forum related to my own riding technique or habits on the road, (unlike you, my ego isn't so big that I presume to be an authority on anything of the kind) or anything at all related to speeding or aggressive riding. I've never been down but I know that doesn't make me invincible. I certainly don't have the attitude that it's par for the course like some people here do. Whether I'd make a post about it or not? I guess we'll find out when it happens.

And I suppose I could ask the same of you. When you do finally try clutchless upshifting (if you haven't already) and realize how stupid you were for baselessly bashing the technique all this time, will you create a thread admitting your mistake and proclaiming yourself the dunce that you are? Or will your ego get between you and the keyboard?

[rockNroll]

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by coondog

The other 10%, like alex s. or kevin2109 or cycnical c are irresponsible riders due to riding with their throttles wide open as much as possible, enabling them to shift clutchless all the time, like racers do on tracks. Their the guys you see everyday on the highway giving bikers a bad name by their irresponsible over the top speeding/multiple lane changing "gotta be numero uno" egos and other bad habit practices. Time will catch up to them, probably has in some cases to them and their ilk already, but unlike us they would never post in the "I went down" column

If you would get off your soapbox and actual ride your bike you would understand that you have no idea what your talking about. You don't have to WOT a bike to clutchless shift, I can clutchless shift all the way to 6th and still be close to the speed limit. I can also cluthless shift all day long on the track at WOT. So stop reading online forums and watching YouTube and learn your bike
Posted via Mobile Device

[alex.s]

@coondog, im sorry you feel this way. Maybe enjoying a nice ride with your buddies will tame your magestic ferocity. Try a warm bath with epsom salt after. Feels great when your vagina gets dry from too much gyno cruising :-) no offense brother, we all ride how we ride,
No need to hate

[bluepoof]

Originally Posted by alex.s

Try a warm bath with epsom salt after. Feels great when your vagina gets dry from too much gyno cruising :-)

Pro tip: Too much epsom salt can actually cause MORE dryness. Best to stick with plain warm water and perhaps some external lotion.

On topic: I use the clutch cuz that's my habit.

[Nemesis]

Even in the race I never shift clutchless.

Makes no difference whatsoever.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Even in the race I never shift clutchless.

Makes no difference whatsoever.

Same here, didn't make a difference in my lap times.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by coondog

This poll shows 90% of membership shift with clutch most or all of the time. That would not only answer your question but convey that 90% of membership are also responsible riders most of the time. The other 10%, like alex s. or kevin2109 or cycnical c are irresponsible riders due to riding with their throttles wide open as much as possible, enabling them to shift clutchless all the time, like racers do on tracks.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading three pages of posts by riders who use their clutch, it's actually a way of telling others a bit about how you ride, which would be "responsibly."

Dude, the world is not black and white. There are gray areas and other ways that are just as good as yours. Clutchless is smooth, easy on the tranny (when done correctly), and most of your most experienced riders on this board do use clutchless upshifting. Open your mind a bit. Just because someone's way is different from yours does not make it wrong. I'm not a squid and am a responsible rider, but I use clutchless about 75% of my upshifts. Doing so does not make me an "irresponsible rider".

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Even in the race I never shift clutchless.

Makes no difference whatsoever.

Must be different for the 250 Clutchless is much quicker on the 636 then with the clutch

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Must be different for the 250 Clutchless is much quicker on the 636 then with the clutch

My fzr clutch slips when i use the clutch when im getting throttle happy. It doesnt slip if you dont use it.... Not slipping seems to me to be faster than a slipping clutch

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

Must be different for the 250 Clutchless is much quicker on the 636 then with the clutch

Really? Cuz I don't shift clutchless on my CBR600RR and the results are the same.

[Jono]

K question: How do you shift really smooth without the clutch. I tried up-shifting clutch-less today for the first time. It is kinda cool but feels really unnatural to me (Maybe because I have been driving manual car since I started driving 6 years ago and riding 4 months ago). I tried shifting this way a couple of times but I couldn't get it to be smoother than if I used the clutch like some people said it should be. So to be smoother I just need to work on timing right?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Jono

K question: How do you shift really smooth without the clutch. I tried up-shifting clutch-less today for the first time. It is kinda cool but feels really unnatural to me (Maybe because I have been driving manual car since I started driving 6 years ago and riding 4 months ago). I tried shifting this way a couple of times but I couldn't get it to be smoother than if I used the clutch like some people said it should be. So to be smoother I just need to work on timing right?

the smoothest clutchless will be from WOT, cutting the throttle as quickly as you can and getting back on the gas as soon as you can after the gear goes in. each bike is a little different, but if you work out how fast your hand moves, the only difference is how far back you twist the throttle to get it to mesh in smoothely

[Jono]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the smoothest clutchless will be from WOT, cutting the throttle as quickly as you can and getting back on the gas as soon as you can after the gear goes in. each bike is a little different, but if you work out how fast your hand moves, the only difference is how far back you twist the throttle to get it to mesh in smoothely

Gotcha. Thanks. I will have to try that out next time I ride. I wasn't doing it from WOT. Might have been the issue. Plus I couldn't feel the throttle with my huge winter gloves on today, so it was hard to tell how quickly i was twisting the throttle.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the smoothest clutchless will be from WOT, cutting the throttle as quickly as you can and getting back on the gas as soon as you can after the gear goes in. each bike is a little different, but if you work out how fast your hand moves, the only difference is how far back you twist the throttle to get it to mesh in smoothely

Clutchless is best used when you're accelerating fairly quickly, rather than during slow, in-traffic accelerations. It's smooth as silk when done correctly!

[Jono]

WOW! I LOVE this up-shifting clutchlessly! It is so easy and so awesome! At first it was weird not using the clutch but the quickness (or mental thinking that it is quicker) makes it so awesome. I can't believe how smooth it is. I fell in love with my bike/riding all over again today. Everyone should try this at least a couple of times to see if they like it. At first I was skeptical but it was so nice once I really learned it. I can see how it helps in the twisties when you are leaning off the bike, you don't have to worry about grabbing the clutch. It just frees up your hands/mind and allows you to really focus on the main task at hand.

[ally99]

Yay! Glad you enjoyed your clutchless experience! You're right that in the twisties, it IS nice to use clutchless, but just to clarify, it's important to already be in the gear you want to exit the turn before doing any hanging off. Shifting in the middle of a tight corner (clutchless or with the clutch) is not recommended. All shifting should be done as you're setting up to enter the corner.
REALLY glad you enjoyed your clutchless ride!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by ally99

Yay! Glad you enjoyed your clutchless experience! You're right that in the twisties, it IS nice to use clutchless, but just to clarify, it's important to already be in the gear you want to exit the turn before doing any hanging off. Shifting in the middle of a tight corner (clutchless or with the clutch) is not recommended. All shifting should be done as you're setting up to enter the corner.
REALLY glad you enjoyed your clutchless ride!

Oh yes I know not to shift in the corner. I was talking about at the exit of a turn. When you want to shift up but are still semi leaning off the bike. Sorry for not being clear in my earlier post.

I would like to change my vote to more than sometimes but less than most of the time!

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

So.... What about clutchless down shifting? I've gotten pretty darn good at it and honestly it makes riding easier if I need to drop a gear really fast for something

Really bad idea on a street bike, as it guarantees loss of rear tire traction. However . . . awesome technique on a dirt bike heading into a corner. Best way to carry speed on the dirt is to get the back wheel out and clutchless downshift cuts your back tire out from under you so you can slide it round, plus it puts you in the right gear to go WOT once you are pointed in the right direction again.

I have used the technique on upshifts, but find it smoother and more reliable not to, resulting in better, more predictable ride and no risk of harm to the bike. More predictable is good. Benefits aren't worth it imho.

[wandyhee]

glad I found & read this thread. last Saturday I've done some ride with few friends, and got opportunities to try clutchless method on upshifting gear. Bit awkward and few mistake done on first few attempt, but did it like a pro on the way riding back to our town

[LoD575]

I still mostly use the clutch but working on clutchless. When I do my part and timing properly its smooth as glass.

I always use the clutch for downshifting.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by LoD575

I always use the clutch for downshifting.

Most of us do. It IS better to use the clutch when downshifting, though once in a blue moon I'll do it clutchless. I prefer the clutch when downshifting, but prefer clutchless when upshifting in 2nd-5th gears. Don't try it from 1st to 2nd until you get REALLY good at it.

[wandyhee]

I'm considering myself good enough up shifting clutchless, but how exactly do we do on down shifting? do we blip throttle opposite way?

[ally99]

No, but I wouldn't recommend clutchless when downshifting. The VERY RARE times I use it when downshifting are if I need a quick accel, like to pass someone. However, even most of my passes, I just use the clutch a second or two before I make my move. It's very rare (and not recommended) that anyone should downshift clutchless. When clutchless downshifting, it's easier to screw it up, send your back tire into a spin, or hurt the tranny.
To answer your question, everything is the same when clutchless downshifting except you push the shifter down instead of up. You still want to twist the throttle the same way.

[wandyhee]

thanks for your detail explanation mate, will not practice cluctchless downshifting, just to experience it

[ally99]

My pleasure, mate.

[alex.s]

the other situation is if you are downshifting for a turn, while firing a heavy machine gun with your left hand... it gets hard to use the clutch so a clutch-less down shift is perfect. its why old military bikes were left hand throttle and clutch