June 14th, 2015, 07:14 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Ninja 250 throttle issue
Just picked up a 1989 Ninja 250 that hasnt ran in about 2 years. Went through the carbs at least three times, it has good spark, getting fuel. If I choke it and get it above 5k itll run fine when I give it throtle, but as soon as it gets below 5k if i give it any throttle it dies. Any suggestions?
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June 14th, 2015, 07:16 PM | #2 |
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Sounds like it needs a 4th time.
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June 14th, 2015, 07:23 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
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Ther third time I checked EVERYTHING. Made sure every single passageway was clear and free flowing. Anything I should look for? any adjustment recommendations? Im new to bikes and have no manual for this one for adjustments
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June 14th, 2015, 07:50 PM | #4 |
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This section should give you most of the basics - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake
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June 14th, 2015, 09:55 PM | #5 |
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Stupid question time,
Describe exactly what you did cleaning the carburetors. Did you remove the idle mixture screws? Set float heights? How/what did you use to clean them? Remove all jets and holders? Verify the fuel circuits were clear with an air compressor? Etc...
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June 15th, 2015, 06:50 AM | #6 |
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a one-time successful carb clean entails some knowledge, correct equipment,
careful attention to detail, prayer...even voodoo sometimes |
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June 15th, 2015, 03:58 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
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Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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The first time i cleaned them, I took them entirely apart. Fuel mixture screws, jets, needles and seats. If you could remove it, It came off. Soaked the carburetors in parts cleaner/ carb cleaner overnight along with the jets and needles. re-assembled. No fire due to old plugs.
Second time, complete tear down again, sprayed carb cleaner in everything and checked all passageways are clear with an air compressor and blew into them with my mouth as well. Re-assemble. Still a throttle issue. Third time, I pulled the jets and needle and seat out. Verified there were no clogs in the jets and the needles werent sticking. Re-assemble. Still issue. The second and third time I had my grandfather alongside who has cleaned many a carbs in his day and he is stumped as well. Ive looked at diagrams to make sure I have everything plumbed correctly and I do. The only thing I cant seem to find is what those big plunger (vacuum) things do in the carb. Theyre the big black plastic things inside the carb up top. Any ideas are appreciated. Were checking the valves tonight. Hopefully. Sorry for a long post |
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June 15th, 2015, 05:41 PM | #8 |
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herp-
Double check......a very common assembly error is inserting the needles OVER (and through) the white retainers (the little things with the feet) This is incorrect. The needle should be inserted first....directly through the slide....the white retainers then get assembled over the needle heads.... Another common error is losing (or forgetting) one or both needle jets which get inserted under the "main jet holder" (aka emulsion tube) The needle jets should be visible in the venturi as "collars"....the needles stick in them. Easy to see if missing. Verify this stuff is all present and accounted for....and in correct order! |
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June 15th, 2015, 05:52 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Could I get some elaboration on the "little white things with feet?"
I'm 99% sure I assembled that correctly. Just curious on the white thing with feet. |
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June 15th, 2015, 06:17 PM | #10 |
in your machine
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Little white feet Part # 16007
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June 15th, 2015, 07:01 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
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Okay. I have everything installed correctly. It holds 150 psi in both cylinders. However, if you hold your hand over the left carb it will rev up, if you put your hand over the right carb it dies.
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June 15th, 2015, 08:04 PM | #12 |
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Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
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okay, stupid question time. Im digging around for parts for the carbs. I'm looking at the 09-12 carbs and they look pretty much identical. Will the carbs off an 08-12 work on this bike? were thinking its that black plunger thing that is malfunctioning but thats $150 a piece. I found a set of 08-12 carbs for $140.
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June 15th, 2015, 08:24 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
Check the diaphragm for damage, also make sure it's installed properly, sometimes they can be a PITA, but a little trick is to put them in the freezer overnight, then quickly install them into the carburetors. The rubber will contract and be a bit stiffer, this makes them easier to install.
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June 16th, 2015, 04:07 AM | #14 |
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herp-
is it 16126 you are after? Is the diaphragm (rubber) visibly damaged...perforated, ripped, torn, edge pinched? |
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June 16th, 2015, 04:12 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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16126 seems the likely culprit. I have absolutely no idea what's going on with this carb. There is no visible damage to the diaphragm.
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June 16th, 2015, 05:39 AM | #16 |
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consider my pm.
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June 16th, 2015, 06:53 AM | #17 |
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What did you set the idle mixture screws at?
Did you confirm the o-ring and washer are in the correct position (assy16014)? Do the slides rise and fall smoothly (engine off) when you lift them up gently through the rear carb opening? |
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June 16th, 2015, 07:38 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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I set the idle mixture screws at 2.5 turns. Yeah, it's all in the correct order.
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June 16th, 2015, 07:49 AM | #19 |
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June 16th, 2015, 07:58 AM | #20 | ||
in your machine
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Quote:
Quote:
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June 16th, 2015, 04:49 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
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Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Okay. Went through the carbs again today and my diaphragms are fully functional. I watched them rise and fall with the throttle. When it gets down about 5k or under and you give it throttle it sucks air and dies. Like maybe it's not getting fuel
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June 16th, 2015, 05:20 PM | #22 | |
in your machine
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Quote:
Are you doing all your testing without the airbox hooked up? If so that's not helping. Why? You ask, here's why, I would highly recommend that you DO NOT REMOVE THE AIR BOX, the carburetors on the bike are CV type and need to box to function properly, buy a K&N that fits the OEM airbox(K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter by K&N Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive Amazon.com: K&N KA-2508 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter: Automotive ) that's the short version. Long boring but important answer, CV carbs stands for "constant velocity". The function of the carbs is dependent on having a calm reservoir (airbox) from which to intake air at said constant velocity. Pods draw from the turbulent, unpredictable air swirling past them as you ride, which is anything but constant. Other carbs work fine with pods. CV's = no bueno, save yourself the headaches. Now onto jetting, first you need to tune the idle mixture screws first, I recommend 3 full turns out from bottom as a good starting point, then fine tune them afterwards. As far as buying a jet kit, I personally don't have one on either my 250, or 500 ninjas. I did got up one size on my main jets, due to they are lean from the factory, and shimmed the main needles with a small washer.
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June 16th, 2015, 05:43 PM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
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Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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I never got the factory airbox. So I guess I'll get that as well. Just thinking about putting new jets and seat needles in it.
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June 16th, 2015, 06:21 PM | #24 | |
in your machine
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Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Have you contacted @ducatiman ?
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. |
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June 16th, 2015, 06:32 PM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Yeah. We've been back and forth. I might just send him the carbs instead of firing up the parts cannon. He seems very knowledgeable and will know what to look for
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June 16th, 2015, 06:36 PM | #26 |
Blind 250 Loving Whore
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Carbs are like vaginas, most of us know the basic functions but no one really knows what the hell is going on in there.
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June 16th, 2015, 06:51 PM | #27 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
He's very well known and respected over at EX-500.com, which is where I know him from.
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. Last futzed with by Ghostt; June 16th, 2015 at 10:44 PM. |
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June 19th, 2015, 06:13 PM | #28 |
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^ thank you for above comments, Ghostt (you have PM)
Lotsa work ahead on these, owned by herpderp. A few issues found upon initial teardown. i'm confident that in the end, we'll have a runner with presentable, decent clean carbs.... inside and out. |
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June 19th, 2015, 08:25 PM | #29 |
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and later tonight.....done for the most part, some jetting decisions and changes pending. Innards cleaned, cleared, all circuits confirmed clear....
somebody's going to be mighty surprised i think |
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June 19th, 2015, 10:52 PM | #30 |
in your machine
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Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Another excellent job @ducatiman, I love the before and after pictures, better than new.
PM replied.
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June 19th, 2015, 11:09 PM | #31 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Ask all my EX's, that's probably the only thing they never complained about.
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June 20th, 2015, 06:11 AM | #33 |
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thanks Tyler, you have PM re jetting decisions. Let me know.
Edit: jetting decisions now made, I'll be wrapping this up today/tonight. 2nd edit: cracked hose under decel valve replaced, final jetting choices installed, fuel levels set, adjusted, checked via wet testing. These are DONE. Here's a peak at the innards after. Last futzed with by ducatiman; June 20th, 2015 at 01:35 PM. |
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June 24th, 2015, 06:42 AM | #34 |
ChocolateMilk Addict
Name: Maurice
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Any updates?
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June 24th, 2015, 08:01 AM | #35 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Waiting on the carbs to get here yet. Should be here tomorrow.
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June 25th, 2015, 05:36 PM | #36 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tyler
Location: Monticello, MN
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1989 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 20
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Well, got em on the bike tonight. Runs great!! But, I now have discovered a bent front rim so alas, one more thing holding me back from riding
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June 25th, 2015, 08:23 PM | #37 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Also how's the forks, brakes,head bearings, etc.... Just something to think about So I'm guessing your satisfied with @ducatiman work? Pictures?
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violente et ignorantia ZX-2R BLOG Twitter and Instagram = Ghostt_Scott I'm not here to change your mind, just to inform. Last futzed with by Ghostt; June 26th, 2015 at 01:05 AM. |
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