I have no idea how I just crashed

[nafango2]

Hi guys,

I'm sad to say I just dumped my 2012 250 special edition for the first time! This is my fourth season with this bike and i was hoping to keep it in good shape. Oh well :/

Anyway, I'm trying to learn from this experience, but I have no idea what happened! I was hoping you guys could help me figure it out!

I was riding in a dense city environment and was making a left turn at a stoplight. It was solid green, and as I entered the intersection first I slowed to let an oncoming car pass, then started accelerating as I entered the left turn at about 10 mph. As I rounded the 90 degree corner to the left, I had a deep lean going, but I've gone further down before. The next thing I knew, I was on the ground under the bike by the lefthand crosswalk where I had intended to turn. The bike had lowsided mid-turn. I stood up, quite dumbfounded as I checked myself for injuries, then shut off my bike. Luckily all I had was some minor road rash on my elbow.

Some girls standing on the corner ran up to check that I was alright. I asked them what happened, if I had hit anything or they saw sparks, and they said no, and that I was turning when my bike hit the ground and started sliding. You could tell from the scrape marks in the road that the bike had started sliding on its side near the center of the intersection and stopped over the crosswalk. The scrape marks were at least 15ft long. There was also a skid mark maybe 1-2 ft long immediately before the scrape marks. It was dry conditions with no oil on the road.

A few facts:
1) I was accelerating into the turn when the bike lowsided. I could have chirped the rear tire in a deep lean and that put me on the ground.
2) there was a smooth-top, hole-less manhole cover very close to where the skid stated, I could have hit this at a critical point in the turn and lost traction.
3) there were bits of plastic from what looked like a taillight. I could have skid one of these.
4) I could have gone too deep in the lean and lowsided.
5) ??

Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, does anyone know where I might be able to find fairings for my bike? Its one of these: http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...248ab2fd_b.jpg
I havent been able to find any on any online stores or on ebay.

Thanks!

[Burphel]

A few thoughts:

*There's really no reason to be in a "deep lean" in city traffic, let alone in the middle of an intersection.
*The skid mark would make the most sense if your rear started spinning up on the manhole cover and never really caught again. First gear on these bikes is a bit tractor-ish, so ham-fisting the throttle can exceed your traction. I'd still think you'd have to be almost WFO to do it.
*Did you have any pressure on the front brake? Even if you don't lock up the front, too much brake at low speeds loses you the gyroscopic effect from the front wheel. Losing the front will put you down with a quickness.

Overall, it sounds to me like you were riding too aggressive for the conditions. Your brain is the traction control for these bikes. If you're in race mode when you should be in economy mode, it can come back to bite you in the ass.

Glad you're ok. Did you get the girls' phone numbers? You know... as witnesses...

[VaFish]

#2 or #3 sound the most probable to me.

I've also had the rear end start to slide out going over painted crosswalk lines.

And my fist thought was did you get the girls number?

[1uglybastard]

Sounds like #2 to me.

What kind of tires are you using? Although, it may not have made much of a difference.

[adouglas]

Are you sure you were accelerating? Are you sure you were giving it enough throttle?

When I've had "moments" on the street it's most often been because I tipped into the corner but didn't roll on enough, or soon enough. The bike felt like it wanted to fall further.

10 mph and "deep lean" don't match. 10 mph is jogging pace... the bike needs very little lean angle at that speed. Lean is proportional to speed.

In between the manhole cover and the plastic, manhole cover for sure.

Most likely scenario is 1+2 IMHO:

- You leaned too much for the speed you were going, likely to try to get on your intended line. That used up a lot of available traction.
- As you started to accelerate to catch the bike, your rear tire happened to be on the manhole cover and exceeded its traction limits once power was applied.

[kdogg2077]

I agree with adouglas. 10mph and deep lean = lowside.

[Panda]

If you were increasing your lean and you were increasing your throttle that's a good way to lose your rear as well.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by Burphel

A few thoughts:

*There's really no reason to be in a "deep lean" in city traffic, let alone in the middle of an intersection.
*The skid mark would make the most sense if your rear started spinning up on the manhole cover and never really caught again. First gear on these bikes is a bit tractor-ish, so ham-fisting the throttle can exceed your traction. I'd still think you'd have to be almost WFO to do it.
*Did you have any pressure on the front brake? Even if you don't lock up the front, too much brake at low speeds loses you the gyroscopic effect from the front wheel. Losing the front will put you down with a quickness.

Overall, it sounds to me like you were riding too aggressive for the conditions. Your brain is the traction control for these bikes. If you're in race mode when you should be in economy mode, it can come back to bite you in the ass.

Glad you're ok. Did you get the girls' phone numbers? You know... as witnesses...

Sorry Brian!!! I hit the thumb down unintentionally! I meant a thumb up! I'll find another couple of posts and correct the matrix!

[nafango2]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I appreciate all the responses. It seems to me the big takeaway is to ride more conservatively. Tho now I'm paranoid around sharp, slow turns and ride them too wide and too slow. I actually need to work my confidence back up. Right now I'm too rigid and it's less safe imo.

I figured I'd address a few things:
1) I say "deep lean" in my post, but I'm by nature a pretty conservative rider, so a "deep lean" to me likely isn't really all that deep.
2) No comment on the phone numbers
3) I was increasing my lean while increasing my throttle, I honestly didn't realize that was a no-no. I wasn't hammering on it tho, just adding throttle to get me through the tight corner.
4) I'm as sure as I can be that I wasn't braking. I mean, it's theoretically possible I was touching them and didn't realize it, but I think it'd be pretty hard to do that while simultaneously accelerating.
5) I like to think I'm a good enough rider that I wouldn't drop it in a turn by simply leaning too far. It's possible though.

What I'm thinking is that, like many said, I was already low on traction and in the deepest part of my lean when my back tire slid about a foot on the manhole cover . That foot-long slide dropped me into a lowside and the rest is history.

Thanks guys! Also, does anyone have any ideas on finding fairings? I likely will just leave the damage but I still want to price it out.

[RacinNinja]

How bad are the fairings? Spot putty, Bondo, some sand paper and some paint will go a long way. If they are cracked, some ABS cement to bond the crack back together and some sanding works well too.

[nafango2]

The fairings aren't too bad, a small crack in one area and the usual scratches everywhere. However all the colors on it are factory decal stickers, and the sliding rubbed the colors/decals right off.

[RacinNinja]

Factory replacement fairings are probably going to be fairly pricey, even on Ebay for the Special Edition fairings. You can try someone like Auctmart which are Chinese knock off fairings. Some of them fit well, some of them don't. I don't know off hand which are good or not but you can look.

http://gundamhost.com/auctmarts/shop/index.php

[csmith12]

Manhole covers.... they suck sometimes. I try to take a line that avoids rolling over them.

[CaliGrrl]

Glad you're ok!

[jkv45]

If you did run over a manhole cover while cornering, it's no surprise you lost the rear.

Get in the habit of visually scanning through the corner before you enter, then after confirming the exit is ok, bring your focus back to the pavement directly in your path and 5 to 10 feet ahead (distance depends on your speed - farther ahead the faster you are going). You are doing a visual "sweep" of the pavement and conditions before you get there. Look for sand, gravel, rocks, holes, oil, manhole covers, etc. That gives you time to make adjustments to your line and speed before being confronted with the issue mid-corner. After you have confirmed conditions are ok, continue looking through the corner as you exit.

Experience can also save your bacon at times when there's no time or room to make a correction. Riding dirt bikes is a great way to learn to deal with limited traction and handling a cycle that's on the edge of being out of control. In a situation like yours, with dirt experience, you may be able to "ride it out" by doing the right thing at the right time.

Another thing that is often a factor in low-side crashes is the quality of your tires. Fresh, high quality, tires can give you the added traction for cornering and braking that can make the difference between the tire sliding and sliding-out. If you have the original tires on your 2012 model, it would be a good time to start looking for replacements.

[Alex]

Yep - my vote is manhole cover as well. Your rear wheel lost traction unexpectedly on something. It's possible that that happens without an obvious hazard (cold tires, non-graceful control inputs), but a significant change in traction is most likely.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by nafango2

.....A few facts:
1) I was accelerating into the turn when the bike lowsided. I could have chirped the rear tire in a deep lean and that put me on the ground.
2) there was a smooth-top, hole-less manhole cover very close to where the skid stated, I could have hit this at a critical point in the turn and lost traction.
3) there were bits of plastic from what looked like a taillight. I could have skid one of these.
4) I could have gone too deep in the lean and lowsided.
5) ??

Anyone have any thoughts?........

Please, see these:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=172628

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958

https://ninja250forum.com/forums/sho...d.php?p=739871

You cannot select a lean angle.
You can only select radius of turn and speed.
The lateral forces on the contact patches that try to slide the tires over depend on those two only (for a flat horizontal surface).
Lean angle is a consequence of the above and there is only one for each combination of radius and speed.

My vote is for the loose plastic pieces.
Could it be that the rubber of the tires was still cold?

[Burphel]

Originally Posted by nafango2

2) No comment on the phone numbers

Priorities, man! Seriously, crashes happen. You're not hurt and the damage to the bike sounds mostly cosmetic. Learn from it. If you haven't already, consider taking an advanced/experienced rider course from MSF or something similar. The BRC gives you the fundamentals to start riding. It sounds like you've got those covered. Now go back and let the pros look at what you're doing and see if you've acquired any bad habits and/or help you polish your technique. Of course, track days are very good too, but for most people, an ARC is more bang for the buck.

[MrAtom]

People who have these little crashes like this are so lucky. Especially guys like you who do their best to learn from them. Take them for what they are; a fantastic learning experience. Any attitude resembling something like "effing city doesn't pave my road right!" that another rider might have will only lead them further away from being a safe, talented rider, and closer to the hospital or deathbed. I may not be one of these motorcycle wizards this forum is known for, but I have learned from and paid for a bad attitude on the bike. I'm glad you're okay and have the right attitude

[cbinker]

not sure how you crashed, anything is possible, i was thinking due to lack of power and your claim to lean through the corner, its possible the front washed out.

[Triple Jim]

When I've had my front tire slide in a turn, it was very obvious. There was no question in my mind that the front was sliding. It wakes one up in a hurry.

[Abu_Mishary]

A friend of mine had a similar experience like yours. He was going too slow while doing a very low lean angle. Thank God no vehicles were behind him.

Thank God nothing severe except money for new fairings..

[Triple Jim]

There's an exercise I've enjoyed doing occasionally. You find some clean, deserted pavement and do low speed circles tighter and tighter until you're dragging your knee. Of course you do it in both directions. It gives you a really good feel for low speed turns. It may or may not have helped in this case, but it's certainly educational.

[RacinNinja]

This would be a good read for you, fresh off the press!

http://www.cycleworld.com/two-ways-t...ODgzNTcxNDMzS0