Building a slamfire shotgun

[MrAtom]

Link to original page on YouTube.

This guy is a complete jackass in terms of gun safety (not in this video, I think, but in others), but it does look like a lot of fun. However, in Californee, I'd need a $200 AOW tax stamp to build something like this, and that's just dumb.

I don't really intend to do this, as I'm happy with the shotgun I own, but I'm curious. I live close to both Nevada and Oregon. I haven't researched those states' laws, but if I assembled one of these in a state where it's legal to do so, had proof it was assembled in said state, then brought it back home, would that be legal?

[csmith12]

lol @ permet for assembling pipes together in the shape of a gun. Do you need a permet to make this too?



What about potato guns?

I promise I am not trying to be a smart a** or anything, but just trying to make sure I am 100% NOT ever moving to cali.

[VaFish]

You are asking a very California specific legal question. Internet advice is worth what you pay for it, and taking the wrong advice could land you in prison for a very long time.

If you really want to build one of them I would suggest you consult a attorney in CA about the legalities of bringing one back into the state.

I know here in VA, as long as the shotgun barrel is over 18" there is no need for federal tax stamp/registration as a SBS or AOW.

[iamjacob]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

However, in Californee, I'd need a $200 AOW tax stamp to build something like this, and that's just dumb.

Why is that? As long as it is for personal use, not to be sold, meets minimum length and not full auto, what's the reason for the tax stamp?

[JohnnyBravo]

Just do it and tell them I built it for ya as a gift

[Alex]

[csmith12]

Alex, I have learned alot of my "let it slide" from you sir. /bow

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by VaFish

You are asking a very California specific legal question. Internet advice is worth what you pay for it, and taking the wrong advice could land you in prison for a very long time.

If you really want to build one of them I would suggest you consult a attorney in CA about the legalities of bringing one back into the state.

I know here in VA, as long as the shotgun barrel is over 18" there is no need for federal tax stamp/registration as a SBS or AOW.

Normally when I ask legal questions like this I end up ultimately reading the fine print myself before doing this. The best reddit lawyers give you excerpts

Originally Posted by iamjacob

Why is that? As long as it is for personal use, not to be sold, meets minimum length and not full auto, what's the reason for the tax stamp?

Its perfectly legal to build an AR-15 but if a certain percentage of a firearm deviates from an original design it becomes a "zip gun." If you pay the $200 tax stamp, its now an "AOW" and not a "zip gun" and therefore legal.

And csmith, spud guns are illegal if they're combustion based. Any other pneumatic system is okay. And its limited to anything similar to a tater gun. When I was 15 I made a combustion based .177 bb gun and I believe it was legal, but I don't want any Californians to call me from prison. I was never able to chronograph it but it could send a BB through most of a phonebook. To give something with such little mass that much force is amazing. I have no doubt that if I loaded a pellets into it, I could have accurately dialed in some optics and made a reasonably cheap, ethical pesting gun.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Its perfectly legal to build an AR-15 but if a certain percentage of a firearm deviates from an original design it becomes a "zip gun." If you pay the $200 tax stamp, its now an "AOW" and not a "zip gun" and therefore legal.

No that is incorrect by federal law. I'm not sure of CA laws. There is no definition of a Zip Gun in federal law. And there is no federal requirement for a percentage of the gun to remain original.

The only way to make an AR15 into an AOW is to add a forward grip to an AR15 pistol. It is now a gun manufactured to be fired with 2 hands so it no longer meets the definition of a pistol, it is too short and has no but stock so it is not a rifle, it is not a shotgun, it does not meet the definition of any other firearm/weapon so it must be classified as Any Other Weapon (AOW)

If you manufacture a slam fire shotgun and the barrel is at least 18" long it is a shotgun which can be built with no federal registration, if it has a shoulder stock and a barrel under 18" it is an Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS) and requires a $200 tax stamp to build and another $200 tax stamp if you transfer it to someone, and if it has a barrel under 18" and a pistol grip it will be an AOW which requires a $200 tax stamp to build and a $5 tax stamp to transfer.

I've done ATF Form 1's and built SBR's, I'm waiting on form 1's to be approved to build suppressors, and I hang out in a buddy's shop that is a Type 07 manufacturer with a SOT for manufacturing NFA weapons.

NFA laws/rules are really confusing and almost silly at times.

For example, This is an AR15 pistol



If I put a vertical foregrip on it it will need to have a $200 tax stamp and be registered as an AOW, if I put an angled foregrip on it, it is still legal without the tax stamp.

Put a butstock on it and it becomes a short barreled rifle, but you can put an arm brace on it that looks like a butstock and it is still a pistol.

as long as you don't put the brace in your shoulder like a stock, do that and you are committing a federal felony.

[csmith12]

Thanks for the high level info. Man... they take all the fun outta everything out west.

To hell with it all, I am going to start building the biggest trebuchet Ky has ever seen. Used to launch people into the big lake beside my house. It will be great until some fun sponge comes along and shuts me down.

[csmith12]

The original "slam fire."

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by VaFish

No that is incorrect by federal law. I'm not sure of CA laws. There is no definition of a Zip Gun in federal law. And there is no federal requirement for a percentage of the gun to remain original.

The only way to make an AR15 into an AOW is to add a forward grip to an AR15 pistol. It is now a gun manufactured to be fired with 2 hands so it no longer meets the definition of a pistol, it is too short and has no but stock so it is not a rifle, it is not a shotgun, it does not meet the definition of any other firearm/weapon so it must be classified as Any Other Weapon (AOW)

If you manufacture a slam fire shotgun and the barrel is at least 18" long it is a shotgun which can be built with no federal registration, if it has a shoulder stock and a barrel under 18" it is an Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS) and requires a $200 tax stamp to build and another $200 tax stamp if you transfer it to someone, and if it has a barrel under 18" and a pistol grip it will be an AOW which requires a $200 tax stamp to build and a $5 tax stamp to transfer.

I've done ATF Form 1's and built SBR's, I'm waiting on form 1's to be approved to build suppressors, and I hang out in a buddy's shop that is a Type 07 manufacturer with a SOT for manufacturing NFA weapons.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So you are saying California law has a separate $200 registration requirement for NFA type weapons on top of the federal tax stamp?

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by VaFish

So you are saying California law has a separate $200 registration requirement for NFA type weapons on top of the federal tax stamp?

Correct. Sorry for the excessive sarcasm.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

Correct. Sorry for the excessive sarcasm.

You know you can just hit ctrl+f and search in browser...

[toEleven]

Also fun: federal laws apply to Californians. There's nothing even remotely off topic or irrelevant about Vafish's contribution.