(not) getting caught by radar

[ai4px]

The place I work has decided they want to enforce the speed limit on the mile long access road. They put up one of those radar speed signs that displays your speed. What I've noticed is as I crest a hill 1/2 a mile from the sign, it shows my speed when I'm in the cage. When on my bike, I get within 200 feet before the sign starts to display my speed.

Makes me wonder just how small of a radar target we are on a bike and how hard is it for the police to get a lock on us?

My wife got away with a warning last week in her car**. By the time she recognized the cop car up ahead (unmarked car) he had clocked her. Makes me wonder if I could see a cop and actually slow down before he could clock me??

How many cops run lidar? I'm thinking the average cop with a fixed radar gun in his front dash is X or K band radar and not the laser type.... because he can't aim it while driving... so can we slow down before they can clock us?


**she got a warning b/c she was following someone going 45 in a 55 on a two lane road and pulled out to pass them when the center line permitted. She got up to 76 going head on with the unmarked car and had already started to slow by the time she got back in her lane. The cop recognized this, but still didn't think it was on the up and up. Yes, she drives a hot little car.

[SemperFudge]

depends on where you live. la county cops are cheap and still use x and k band. rich orange county cops got lidar.

i got a cobra radar detector and it works like a charm. best investment ever. gets x, k, spectre, and even lidar alerts (even though once lidar hits you its too late lol)

thing about bikes though is that lidar is pretty much the only way to get a good reading, and even then its kinda hard because normally a cop would point at a cars front license plate, but with bikes its tricky.

[Alex]

Those roadside signs have the radar gun dialed down to an incredibly low amount of power, as the range just isn't needed. It also means that much less radiation for nearby residents. The radar units that law enforcement use in their cars and bike is much more powerful, and capable of easily tracking a motorcycle's speed from as far away as is feasible to identify the bike.

[alex.s]

the laser guns will go much farther than you will be able to see clearly. they use them from helicopters

[Lychee]

I got pulled over on the way to work by a motorcycle cop using Lidar in San Jose. Lucky I did not get a performance award. Lidar is everywhere. =(

[DaveTheCanuck]

Radar, you might get lucky if you slam the brakes. LIDAR, they've got you pegged long before you can even say "oh ****".

The units mounted on the dashboard of some police cruisers are Radar. LIDAR requires more precise aiming.

Originally Posted by alex.s

the laser guns will go much farther than you will be able to see clearly. they use them from helicopters

Not possible. The angle between the LIDAR and target needs to be within ~25 degrees for it to be accurate enough. So unless the helicopter is hovering 20 feet or so above the road, they're not using LIDAR.

When police use aircrafts to perform speed enforcement, they wait for the target vehicle to cross a known point and time how long it takes to reach a second known point. That's all, no special instrumentation. Just a stopwatch and the human eye.

[alex.s]

ok well my brother got a ticket after being clocked by a helicopter and it said LIDAR 95mph. the cop car didn't catch up until he was stopped.

[Aggrotech]

I'm fairly positive ive completely gone past one of these road side radar/speed tracker things without being detected. Id go test it but id be goin out of my way to do it so meh.

40mph road, car in front of me is quite a ways ahead, hes doin 40, i can see that on the sign..my turn to roll up on it, it never changes ( i was doin 60)..I eventually get riiiight under it and i can see the number change to 38 for the car behind me so it must have completely skipped over me

[Alex]

Again - there is very little correlation between the capabilities of those roadside signs and police radar.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by DaveTheCanuck

Radar, you might get lucky if you slam the brakes. LIDAR, they've got you pegged long before you can even say "oh ****".

The units mounted on the dashboard of some police cruisers are Radar. LIDAR requires more precise aiming.



Not possible. The angle between the LIDAR and target needs to be within ~25 degrees for it to be accurate enough. So unless the helicopter is hovering 20 feet or so above the road, they're not using LIDAR.

When police use aircrafts to perform speed enforcement, they wait for the target vehicle to cross a known point and time how long it takes to reach a second known point. That's all, no special instrumentation. Just a stopwatch and the human eye.

I don't know much about LIDAR technology, but 25 degrees would be usable from a helicopter. The tangent of 25 degrees is .47, which means that at a ground distance of 1000 feet, the chopper could be as high as 470 feet off the ground to be effective.

[02337]

I have a passport qi45 I picked up from best buy on clearance for like 150 or something stupid(normally 699.) it's a custom mount install and also works as voltmeter, I've been meaning to put on the bike as its super slim and almost unnoticeable radar,lidar,laser detector. It also has ability to install jammer packs to jam laser,(don't think it'd work too well on the bike).

Around here cops only use Ka and some counties/towns radars are forced always on so detecting them makes it simple. Great little device and works great besides picking up x band which is used in the traffic speed monitors around here and every automatic door .

In New Jersey I heard they're trying to implement a new ticket writing scheme that goes for example

If you get on the New Jersey turnpike at exit 10(you pick up a entrance ticket)and you get off at exit 14(show the machine the ticket and pay the cost of 4 exits) if you get to your exit 10 minutes and you're supposed to get there in 15, they're going to issue you a ticket as you obviously sped.

Granted this is is what is rumored and is a rough draft but you get the idea... Makes me lean towards moving to Canada more and more....

[Alex]

Originally Posted by 02337

In New Jersey I heard they're trying to implement a new ticket writing scheme that goes for example

If you get on the New Jersey turnpike at exit 10(you pick up a entrance ticket)and you get off at exit 14(show the machine the ticket and pay the cost of 4 exits) if you get to your exit 10 minutes and you're supposed to get there in 15, they're going to issue you a ticket as you obviously sped.

Granted this is is what is rumored and is a rough draft but you get the idea... Makes me lean towards moving to Canada more and more....

No. Nobody is trying to do this. Anywhere. Snopes.

[02337]

Just what I heard from a fellow enthusiasts NJ state trooper, they also just implemented in Delaware te new sentri system. 15+ hidden cameras mounted that can detect certain noises and frequencies(ie gunshots) and turn to the origination of sound with 1 second.....

Big brother is always watching so I don't think it will be too crazy long before we have such ways of ticketing people(not to sound like a crazy anti gov'ment nut)

[Alex]

Everyone hears these things from their brother's neighbor's second cousin who used to be a cop. It's never true. (using toll plaza timings or EZ Pass/Fastrak to issue speeding tickets). Spreading false rumors doesn't inform anyone of anything, but it does illustrate how both gullible and paranoid some folks can be.

[02337]

I have a feeling that's what people thought about airplanes issuing speeding tickets....

[DaveTheCanuck]

Originally Posted by 02337

Makes me lean towards moving to Canada more and more....

Believe me, if you think speed enforcement is too strict in the US, you do not want to move to Canada.

If you get caught going 50+ km/h over the speed limit, it's an immediate roadsize seizure of your vehicle (for 7 days), immediate roadside licence suspension (for 7 days) and a $10,000 fine.

Originally Posted by 02337

I have a feeling that's what people thought about airplanes issuing speeding tickets....

Aircraft speed enforcement isn't a rumour though, it's actually advertised. Here there's signs on the side of the highways that warn you about it, and markings on the pavement every 100m that they use as reference points.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by 02337

I have a feeling that's what people thought about airplanes issuing speeding tickets....

That's the point. People can't tell the difference between false rumors, and easily verifiable facts. Airplanes are occasionally used for speed enforcement. It's incredibly costly, so it's used quite sparingly, and more for training purposes than for any measurable improvement in speed enforcement.

[02337]

Maybe it's all rumor and fake and it's just used to keep the masses on their toes....
What if there is no Santa clause?
Mind = blown

[Alex]

Perhaps. I'd prefer to squash it at all costs for a number of reasons. There are enough twits riding in the fast lane with the cruise control set exactly at the speed limit. If they feared that the next toll plaza was going to ticket them if they went any faster than that limit, it would only encourage that silly behavior.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

I don't know much about LIDAR technology, but 25 degrees would be usable from a helicopter. The tangent of 25 degrees is .47, which means that at a ground distance of 1000 feet, the chopper could be as high as 470 feet off the ground to be effective.

Math FTW!

Originally Posted by 02337

Just what I heard from a fellow enthusiasts NJ state trooper, they also just implemented in Delaware te new sentri system. 15+ hidden cameras mounted that can detect certain noises and frequencies(ie gunshots) and turn to the origination of sound with 1 second.....

They have a shot triangulation system using hidden microphones operational in Oakland.

[02337]

I think it's a double edge sword maybe if people would drive a little more in their limits and their cars limits and pay attention to the speed signs it would be a little safer but I also agree if some people sped up and paid attention there'd be less congestion.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by Alex

No. Nobody is trying to do this. Anywhere. Snopes.

The link is wrong.

It has been done though, I know it used to be done in Germany. Nobody might be doing it at this time in America, but it is entirely possible. They absolutely do that kind of stuff to truck drivers, comparing driver logs to shipping manifests, fuel tickets, ez pass logs, etc, and they do give tickets if you've gone further than you should have.

[lgk]

they do it here in VA using helicopters, but its rare.

[fleemos]

Radar and laser guns from what i have read work best on flat areas, cops will usually aim at the front license plate if you have one for best results. If that is true and the theory is pretty sound, the signs would also be hampered by less optimized aiming.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

The link is wrong.

It has been done though, I know it used to be done in Germany. Nobody might be doing it at this time in America, but it is entirely possible. They absolutely do that kind of stuff to truck drivers, comparing driver logs to shipping manifests, fuel tickets, ez pass logs, etc, and they do give tickets if you've gone further than you should have.

The point isn't whether it's physically possible to do. That's why the rumor persists that it's either happening, or about to happen. It's never been done in the US. I don't believe you that it's ever been done in Germany.

Monitoring truck drivers is a completely different concept, and is more about compliance for the company with rest periods and other requirements as a whole than ticketing individual drivers for speeding between toll plazas.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by Alex

The point isn't whether it's physically possible to do. That's why the rumor persists that it's either happening, or about to happen. It's never been done in the US. I don't believe you that it's ever been done in Germany.

That's fine. I've known people who got ticketed on the Berlin corridor before the fall of the wall and the breakup of the Soviet Union. I can't prove it though.

Monitoring truck drivers is a completely different concept, and is more about compliance for the company with rest periods and other requirements as a whole than ticketing individual drivers for speeding between toll plazas.

That's the original intent, yes, but the enforcement tends to end up on tickets against individual drivers, and yes, that sometimes means speeding tickets if you have gotten further than you should have over the past ten hours.


BTW, when I said your link was wrong, I wasn't referring to what Snopes was saying, I was referring to the fact that your link is to the wrong place, it goes to a diagram of a shopping cart.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

BTW, when I said your link was wrong, I wasn't referring to what Snopes was saying, I was referring to the fact that your link is to the wrong place, it goes to a diagram of a shopping cart.

What, the shopping cart diagram didn't seem relevant?

/link fixed

[ai4px]

Originally Posted by Alex

The point isn't whether it's physically possible to do. That's why the rumor persists that it's either happening, or about to happen. It's never been done in the US. I don't believe you that it's ever been done in Germany.

Monitoring truck drivers is a completely different concept, and is more about compliance for the company with rest periods and other requirements as a whole than ticketing individual drivers for speeding between toll plazas.

I can tell you first hand there are two ways you get a speeding ticket in Germany. 1. They photograph you with a automatic speed camera and 2. A cop will set a radar gun on a tripod along the side of the road. He'll park about 1/2 mile away and when the radar gun display on his dash gets his interest, he'll get out of his car and wave you down. No hot rod cowboy chases.

[Alex]

Those speed cameras are evil beasts indeed.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Lychee

Math FTW!



They have a shot triangulation system using hidden microphones operational in Oakland.

There's nothing at all secretive about the system, and they're not exactly hidden.

[DaveTheCanuck]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

There's nothing at all secretive about the system, and they're not exactly hidden.

The crow found a blind spot...

[Bassman]

Oh no! Were start'n to look like Inda, lol...

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by Alex

What, the shopping cart diagram didn't seem relevant?

/link fixed

No, but I'm more interested in why you had that link in your clip board in the first place....


If you need a sidecar for that 300, there's got to be some better options.

[ddrmanxbxfr]

Originally Posted by DaveTheCanuck

Believe me, if you think speed enforcement is too strict in the US, you do not want to move to Canada.

If you get caught going 50+ km/h over the speed limit, it's an immediate roadsize seizure of your vehicle (for 7 days), immediate roadside licence suspension (for 7 days) and a $10,000 fine.



Aircraft speed enforcement isn't a rumour though, it's actually advertised. Here there's signs on the side of the highways that warn you about it, and markings on the pavement every 100m that they use as reference points.

Just to add about aircraft speed enforcement, yup it is true ! A friend of mine got caught at 130 mph on his ducati multistrada this summer. He was driving down a national park around that speed having some fun. Didn't slowed when he saw the aircraft sign and then they just waited for him at the exit with the radar proof from the aircraft. Busted.

Though in Canada for as long as I have been motorcycling here (7 years), they tolerate A LOT in most provinces. IE, if you're speeding in backroads away from all the population they will let you go no problem but hey don't flippin open it in the city or you'll get a ticket for sure...

I've seen some high speed (90 mph+...) runs last FOR HOURS in some small road in that country and never any ticket no problem but was AWAY from the population .

But yup be careful, drive SAFE and follow the speed limit. Remember that cops aren't always there to piss off people, their there to protect most of the population so as long as you seem safe and you don't bother anyone I don't see why they would ticket you...

[loz944]

Originally Posted by 02337

In New Jersey I heard they're trying to implement a new ticket writing scheme that goes for example

If you get on the New Jersey turnpike at exit 10(you pick up a entrance ticket)and you get off at exit 14(show the machine the ticket and pay the cost of 4 exits) if you get to your exit 10 minutes and you're supposed to get there in 15, they're going to issue you a ticket as you obviously sped.

Granted this is is what is rumored and is a rough draft but you get the idea... Makes me lean towards moving to Canada more and more....

They have been doing that in France for years ,you enter a toll get your ticket then when you exit a cop stops you checks you and if you are speeding issues an on the spot fine.

ask me how I know