Children

[Domagoj]

This turned out to be quite long. Sorry.

For the last few years I've been postponing the trouble but now it seems to have caught up with me.

I've been trying to find anything positive about it, any logical or reasonable reason on why are kids such fun. Help me.

- reduces your personal time to 0
- no intimacy with your spouse, no track days, no games, no sleeping late, no vacations, no piece and quiet
- one must become responsible and exemplary
- additional financial strain
- in the first few years it's responsive as a cat, but catches all that's happening around it
- later it has a million boring questions which are no fun answering
- then it becomes an annoying teenager
- if all is well, it becomes a person who wants to leave
- if something goes wrong it becomes a burden for the rest of your life

- how do you stop yourself from imposing your opinion instead of offering it?
- are there things which should be imposed?
- how do you stop yourself from transfering all your flaws to the kid?
- how do you survive more work after work for the rest of your life?
- maybe the most important of all:

How do you lead, how do you guide a new life if you have only questions and no answers?
....

There really is a lot of children on this planet. Continuing the species really is not the answer. Leaving something behind is also unsatisfactory - there is nothing particulary worthwile in reproducing another average human who does nothing except burn oil and air, and makes money for it while doing another meaningless and boring job. Chances of it becoming someone who really will help humanity are so slim that they are not worth taking. Besides, why is humanity so important or good that it deserves to continue? Just another carbon based life form.

Answers like "you'll see, you'll like it" are ... well, dumb, to put it simply. What if I don't like it? Stuck with it for the rest of my life? For example, there are people who like to buy a car and drive it on the street in the straight line. They may tell me I'd like that too, but it's just not the case.

You'll need to have someone when you grow old. Well, when I need someone, I certainly hope that I won't be ruining my childrens lives with my old age stupidity and wetting my pants. Taking care of an old bugger is just no fun at all. Not something they should be doing. At least not for the sake of doing it.

Everyone wants kids! Except crazy people. Well... Actually a very small percentage of people are very intelligent. Most of us are average or stupid. It's common knowledge that stupid and poor people tend to have many kids - it's a bit mean to say it, but I think it's because sex is cheap and they have nothing else to do.
Not that being intelligent really matters. We all have our fears and questions, and our doubts. It's just the question of the level they're on. How far does one see.

[ChaoSS]

If you have to ask the questions, the answers won't make sense to you. It's like asking why you would want to ride a motorcycle, you are exposed to the elements, you are at greater risk to the inattentive drivers around you, as a means of fun what's the point, you just ride around, you have to do all this maintenance on them, etc.


So long as you look on your parents as a potential liability, as just something that you will have to deal with later in life, and not as a valuable loved member of the family, you simply won't understand. So long as you look on family as a hindrance to you going out and having fun, you won't understand.

Just take it from someone who does understand, things like track days are fun, but they won't make you feel fulfilled. It's why I hate hearing people talk about putting family on hold until they do something with their career, you will never get fulfillment out of your job, it's something you do to allow yourself to live, it's not your life. Family, relationships, these are life, and you do other things, you amuse yourself with motorcycles, with sports, with whatever it is that you enjoy doing, and that is good, but they aren't your life, and if they are, you will find yourself empty someday soon.


I'm sorry I can't answer the question better. It's something that you have to come to understand yourself.

[antiant]

It's very simple, either kids are for you or they are not, it's not something you have to do out of obligation, social pressure, etc. From the sounds of it, it seems like kids might not be for you, however only you can make that decision, no one else can. At least you are thinking about it, in a rational fashion, compared to those who don't even think about it and have kids anyways.

Personally, I have made the rational decision to not have kids. I value other things in life, such as my freedom. I'm free to do whatever I want, anytime I want, whenever I want. Also, I'm financially free from the burdens of rearing children, among other things. Some people find children fulfilling in their lives and that is perfectly fine and there are other people who don't find the idea of raising children fulfilling, which is also fine. Don't get me wrong, I love kids (especially when they are good), but not enough to want to raise them, or be responsible for them, for the majority of my life.

[antiant]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Just take it from someone who does understand, things like track days are fun, but they won't make you feel fulfilled.
It's why I hate hearing people talk about putting family on hold until they do something with their career, you will never get fulfillment out of your job, it's something you do to allow yourself to live, it's not your life. Family, relationships, these are life, and you do other things, you amuse yourself with motorcycles, with sports, with whatever it is that you enjoy doing, and that is good, but they aren't your life, and if they are, you will find yourself empty someday soon.

I think this is misguided. It may not fulfill you personally, but it may fulfill other people. People have different values and things that make them happy. People are not the same mindset as you, so to say that "you will find yourself empty someday soon," or "you will never get fulfillment out of your job," etc may be valid or true to you, but it's not applicable to everyone.

[jstrain]

In what way has it "caught up with you"?

As someone else mentioned, it sounds like you may not be cut out to be a parent. Nothing at all wrong with that.

As far as your strikes against kids, your ideas aren't necessarily true. I still have personal time. I still take vacations. I still have time for hobbies. I still have great sex with my wife. Now I certainly don't have as much free time or money as I used to, but kids aren't a death sentence on fun.

Regarding your second set of thoughts on how to raise them without messing up, I find that sort of thinking to be misguided. Certainly it behooves you to do the best job you can, but you won't ever find a perfect parent out there. I've made many mistakes in parenting, but I keep getting wiser and more experienced, and I keep looking for opportunities to be a better parent. Nobody gets it 100% right, but we all do the best we can.

Between my wife and I, we have 4 kids. Some days having kids really sucks. Some days, it's the best thing on earth. If you've got all those reservations about kids, then just don't have any. Seems simple enough.

[csmith12]

If you wan't kids, have them because no one is every really completely ready. It's a two way street with them and all about the journey. Include them in your life from start to finish and you both with be a bit wiser/smarter/happier in the end. You will understand when you hold your own. All your questions will go away and be replaced by new ones. lol

I have 4 kids, I still do 15 track days + races a year. I take my kids when I can. It's a cool camping trip for them. I have.... errr scratch that.... I MAKE time for my wife, kids, family, work and still have time to do stuff like karate classes, insane workouts, play games, spend way to much time on ninjette and ride on Sundays. It's a busy day every day but worth every second and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I have stayed up 24 hours straight playing xbox with my son.
I have driven 16 hours to the beech just to spend 8 hours there with the wife.
I have given one of my daughters away in marriage.

I know you meant no ill will but you have to change your line of thinking here;

if something goes wrong it becomes a burden for the rest of your life

In the end you just pray for their safe journey to a well rounded adult with empathy for others and a good set of ethics.

[Domagoj]

Thank you all for serious answers.
I appreciate that a lot.

My wife wants kids, and I'm not going to make her miserable. So I'm trying to find a way to cope with it for now. And I don't want to be an irresponsible ass - it's just not the way.

How do you deal with... How do you find yourself courageous enough to raise a new person? I'm just terrified of bad decisions.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Thank you all for serious answers.
I appreciate that a lot.

My wife wants kids, and I'm not going to make her miserable. So I'm trying to find a way to cope with it for now. And I don't want to be an irresponsible ass - it's just not the way.

How do you deal with... How do you find yourself courageous enough to raise a new person? I'm just terrified of bad decisions.

Trust your wife that she choose you to father her children. Your sacrifices will be tinny when compared to hers.

[antiant]

These are things you should have discussed before you got married. Good luck -_-

[csmith12]

Here, this is very fitting in this thread.... a bit of down home country logic.

Burned Biscuits - A lesson we all should learn.

When I was a kid, my Mom liked to make breakfast food for dinner every now and then. I remember one night in particular when she had made breakfast after a long, hard day at work. On that evening so long ago, my Mom placed a plate of eggs, sausage and extremely burned biscuits in front of my dad. I remember waiting to see if anyone noticed!
All my dad did was reach for his biscuit, smile at my Mom and ask me how my day was at school. I don't remember what I told him that night, but I do remember watching him smear butter and jelly on that ugly burned biscuit. He ate every bite of that thing...never made a face nor uttered a word about it!

When I got up from the table that evening, I remember hearing my Mom apologize to my dad for burning the biscuits. And I'll never forget what he said, "Honey, I love burned biscuits every now and then."

Later that night, I went to kiss Daddy good night and I asked him if he really liked his biscuits burned. He wrapped me in his arms and said, "Your Mom put in a hard day at work today and she's real tired. And besides--a little burned biscuit never hurt anyone!"
As I've grown older, I've thought about that many times. Life is full of imperfect things and imperfect people.
I'm not the best at hardly anything, and I forget birthdays and anniversaries just like everyone else. But what I've learned over the years is that learning to accept each other's faults and choosing to celebrate each other’s differences is one of the most important keys to creating a healthy, growing, and lasting relationship.

And that's my prayer for you today...that you will learn to take the good, the bad, and the ugly parts of your life and lay them at the feet of God. Because in the end, He's the only One who will be able to give you a relationship where a burnt biscuit isn't a deal-breaker!

We could extend this to any relationship. In fact, understanding is the base of any relationship, be it a husband-wife or parent-child or friendship!

[antiant]

It was great until it reached the prayer and god part.

[csmith12]

Yea meh.... it still works with or without. Feel free to sub in your own source of inspiration.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by antiant

I think this is misguided. It may not fulfill you personally, but it may fulfill other people.

Maybe, but I think that a lot of people who spend their lives being fulfilled with work end up feeling later in life that they didn't do anything worthy with their lives.

I'm not trying to talk down on anyone. I'm telling you what I feel happens to many, or most, people.

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Thank you all for serious answers.
I appreciate that a lot.

My wife wants kids, and I'm not going to make her miserable. So I'm trying to find a way to cope with it for now. And I don't want to be an irresponsible ass - it's just not the way.

How do you deal with... How do you find yourself courageous enough to raise a new person? I'm just terrified of bad decisions.

If you are set on having kids, then do it. Being a parent is not something you can prepare for. You can start making better decisions, if you are making irresponsible ones right now, but other than that, you learn as you go. I remember bringing my first one home, we were all prepared, we had read up on everything, we get home, set the car seat down, looked at each other and said "now what?" We didn't have the first idea what to do with a baby that didn't seem to need anything at the moment. But you learn as you go, get help from people who have been there, you just do what you can, and somewhere along the way you realize you aren't a bad parent.

Good luck.

[pomartin]

Hy neighbor

Kids sure take from you a lot of time and money... but it isn`t all that bad.
Their smile will make you happy and every time give u power to carry on with them.
When they are older you can go on track days together. Immagine how fun would it be teaching them to ride a bike

To sum up, after getting son/daughter you will change significantly and look at it from the other angle of view.

+ I was in Rijeka a whole past week.. how come i didn`t see u on ninjette

Good luck!

[Domagoj]

All right. Basically, do what you can and hope for the best.

Hey, there is another bright side! I'll finally be allowed to buy tons of Legos! Just to survive the initial no response catch all phase sucessfully.

@pomartin That's cos you were not looking in the correct place! Every morning on the highway. Tucked in because it's a bit cold. If it has 2 wheels it's probably me. Or a postman. Hmm, no postmen on the highway though.

Thanks. Believe it or not, you people actually helped.

[Alex]

Kids rule. Even when they don't. Here's our youngest on a mission.

[Aggrotech]

All dem toys

[chef]

Some people just should not have kids.
I was reading this post before i was called away here at work...we had a 4 year old child wandering the hotel in tears,gave some fries & ice cream till we found the hippie parents sitting on the beach! Last week 2 kids in the room the whole day while the parents went to the beach for 5 hours!!
Being a parent is being responsible,we do most of the same things i enjoyed before being a parent,now we just do them together.
I work 13 hours a day,last night my son wanted to make lasagna so we were busy until late but did he eat it today? No,haha.
Its a great thing if you let it be.
Cheers

[csmith12]

Oh!!!! Almost forgot the most important thing when it comes to kids. Get Patience!!! And lots of it because it WILL be tested.

[Domagoj]

@csmith12 I am patient, that won't be a problem, i think.

@Alex You answered one of the questions that many people were unable to. What is the use for a toilet lid?

What I wonder is, why did he just stop? I mean it was almost completely done, all the bricks were in the bathtub except a few. And then, just like that - something completely different, and the task he set himself before forgotten.

[Alex]

Because, silly!

[mariorivera830]

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Thank you all for serious answers.
I appreciate that a lot.

My wife wants kids, and I'm not going to make her miserable. So I'm trying to find a way to cope with it for now. And I don't want to be an irresponsible ass - it's just not the way.

How do you deal with... How do you find yourself courageous enough to raise a new person? I'm just terrified of bad decisions.

Do not have a child just because she wants one. You two need to sit down and have a real heart to heart. If you do it just because you think it will make her happy, there is a small chance (not a certainty) that you may grow to resent your wife, or worse, your child. That's not a great foundation for parenting.

I married my wife when I was 21 and she was 20. I was in the Marines and we had only been dating for about 3 months (long story but that's for another day). Fast forward 11 years and 4 kids later and here we are, happier than when we started.

When you do decide to have your first child, everything changes. The moment that my daughter opened her eyes at me for the first time, my world changed. My fears of being an irresponsible and horrible father changed to fears that what I do will never be enough to keep her off of the pole! Seriously though, kids are great most of the time. Sure they suck every once in awhile, but with proper time management and a wife that has the same thought process as you, life can be great. Plus, it's actually kinda exciting to find a way to squeeze in a quicky during nap time.

This is just my opinion, but talk it over with your wife and come to a decision together. You both have to be open minded to each others opinions and doubts, but together I'm sure you two can come to a decision that works for both of you. Just remember that the babymaking process is a ton of fun.

Good luck

[CC Cowboy]

Get a dog first. It is good training. If you can't handle a puppy you won't have a chance with children. Kids require so much more than a dog does so it's a good way to see if you're cut out for it. A dog is a 10 year commitment. Children is a life long commitment.

I raised two boys by myself and loved every minute of it. You have to take the good with the bad. The good you'll be proud of. The bad you will laugh at later in life. Your old life will be finished but your new life, with children, will be very rewarding.

I could go on and on but only you can make this decision.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Get a dog first. It is good training. If you can't handle a puppy you won't have a chance with children. Kids require so much more than a dog does so it's a good way to see if you're cut out for it. A dog is a 10 year commitment. Children is a life long commitment.

Children are way different. They are a different kind of commitment. Hell, I have both, and I still think I'm not a great "parent" for the dogs.

[Domagoj]

We have a cat.
Dogs are too artificial to be interesting. And too sociable. Easy to manipulate. And too large.

It may sound sick but dogs are very master affirming animals. At least the ideal of a dog. They love him and even if he is a murderer, or a mass murderer, they stand beside him. A cat (ideal one) does what she thinks is best for her - whether you are a saint or a demon. And continuously reminds the owner(s) that their ways are probably not entirely correct.

[Z300]

Originally Posted by Alex

Kids rule. Even when they don't. Here's our youngest on a mission.

OMG what a cutie lol, look at them cheeks!!!

[xSean13]

I keep seeing "it" "it" "it"
Maybe this is your problem, that humanity doesn't have meaning to you. Unfortunately, this is often the case with those who have no religion or faith, and don't value life aside from their opinion (wrongly) that we are just meaningless life forms in this universe that had randomly evolved from essentially nothing.

[Alex]

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by xSean13

I keep seeing "it" "it" "it"
Maybe this is your problem, that humanity doesn't have meaning to you. Unfortunately, this is often the case with those who have no religion or faith, and don't value life aside from their opinion (wrongly) that we are just meaningless life forms in this universe that had randomly evolved from essentially nothing.

Q: How do you find a bible thumper on an online forum?

A: Don't worry, they'll find you!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I raised two boys by myself and loved every minute of it.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

Children are way different. They are a different kind of commitment. Hell, I have both, and I still think I'm not a great "parent" for the dogs.

And how are you for the kids (at parenting)?

[nycsteve]

See if you can answer some of the questions you have but in relation to your wife/marriage. Did you ask yourself these questions before you got a girlfriend? Did you ask yourself these questions before you got married?

Honestly answer these questions and then see how you feel about the situation and talk to your wife. I think a commitment like marriage is just has big a decision as having a kid(s).

Just my

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

And how are you for the kids (at parenting)?

Not half bad, actually.