Front suspension question

[gasguzziler]

So I have a 2007 ninja 250, it's my first bike and I am still learning but I have a question on the suspension. I have noticed a couple of times when I am braking I just hit the front brake and the entire front end just fully collapsed, like the front dropped 6". This seemed quite dangerous as it was hard to control the bike with this. I am wondering if this is a problem with the bike or more of a design flaw. Fortunately for me it has all worked out well and I have tried to brake more with the rear brake but would like to figure this out.

[psych0hans]

Hi buddy, depending on your weight, the front springs might be too soft for you. Buy a stiffer spring and some heavier oil and you should be good to go.

[Sipper']

Very soft springs combined with the 200mm factory oil level and no damping.

At least, that is what the manual calls for oil level wise.

You can up the level to help, but stiffer springs are a must.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by gasguzziler

So I have a 2007 ninja 250, it's my first bike and I am still learning but I have a question on the suspension. I have noticed a couple of times when I am braking I just hit the front brake and the entire front end just fully collapsed, like the front dropped 6"............

I have a similar bike, weight 180 lb and don't have that problem.

Try a change of fork oil before going crazy replacing parts:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...he_fork_oil%3F

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by gasguzziler

So I have a 2007 ninja 250, it's my first bike and I am still learning but I have a question on the suspension. I have noticed a couple of times when I am braking I just hit the front brake and the entire front end just fully collapsed, like the front dropped 6". This seemed quite dangerous as it was hard to control the bike with this. I am wondering if this is a problem with the bike or more of a design flaw. Fortunately for me it has all worked out well and I have tried to brake more with the rear brake but would like to figure this out.

Its because you are still learning. Its completely normal to apply too much front or rear brake when you are first learning. Don't change out anything on the bike until you get at least a few thousand miles under your belt. What you are experiencing happens to EVERYBODY who starts off on a small 250cc sized bike. Bottom line... its completely normal and there is nothing wrong with your bike.

[sharky nrk]

Change the fork oil (service the forks) as its been what now 7 or 8 years and probably never been done and practice being smooth

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by jgcable

Its because you are still learning.

Not true... Learning or not, a properly setup and serviced suspension will go a long way. It is not normal for the forks to bottom out, and if it is, your suspension needs work.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by psych0hans

Not true... Learning or not, a properly setup and serviced suspension will go a long way. It is not normal for the forks to bottom out, and if it is, your suspension needs work.

I would normally agree with this but not when we are talking about a beginner rider. Of course.. I have no way of knowing whether or not his front forks need service but I can tell you that 100% of beginner riders on a ninja 250r will bottom out the front forks.

[gasguzziler]

Thanks for your replies, I'll take a look at the fork oil. I was thinking it might have something to do with me to as I'm a big guy probably pushing 300 pounds so there is that too and being new doesn't help. Do you have any recommendations on A heavier fork oil?

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by gasguzziler

Thanks for your replies, I'll take a look at the fork oil. I was thinking it might have something to do with me to as I'm a big guy probably pushing 300 pounds so there is that too and being new doesn't help. Do you have any recommendations on A heavier fork oil?

I would suggest working on your braking first. I weigh 200 and I have been riding for about 8 years. I have put on probably 70,000 miles in that time which is decent considering the season is only around 6 months long in Connecticut. Anyway... I recently got back into a Ninja 250r after riding all big twin Harley cruisers which really don't have very good brakes. The first few times I rode the 250 I thought it had no fork oil in it at all. I easily bottomed out the forks. I had a few of my Harley buddies ride it and the same thing happened to them. After a few days of me test riding it around my neighborhood I got used to the brakes and I got just about 0 dive in the front forks. I am still changing out my springs to sonic 70 weight springs but only because I prefer a firmer feel.

[InvisiBill]

These little Ninjas (including my 500) seem to come with very soft springs. For a 300lb rider, RaceTech's calculator (which admittedly may not be 100% accurate for everyone) recommends a spring twice as firm as stock. With a spring rate half of what it should be, I wouldn't expect proper suspension operation.

There's a difference between expecting parts changes to fix poor skills/technique and replacing way out of spec parts with ones that match you.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

These little Ninjas (including my 500) seem to come with very soft springs. For a 300lb rider, RaceTech's calculator (which admittedly may not be 100% accurate for everyone) recommends a spring twice as firm as stock. With a spring rate half of what it should be, I wouldn't expect proper suspension operation.

There's a difference between expecting parts changes to fix poor skills/technique and replacing way out of spec parts with ones that match you.

I agree but I still think much of it has to do with improper braking technique. Beginner riders always grab too much front brake.

[fast1075]

Sorry, but as you learn and progress, you learn to brake harder (unless of course you never get out of second gear for fear that it will cause a time vortex or something like that).

Basic survival riding a bike (never mind riding one in a sporting manner) depends to a large degree on being able to consistently take the braking to the edge. Intentionally trying to avoid hard braking, and the resulting lack of the needed skill set earns you an invitation to the Darwin Awards draft.

The issue of the "collapsing forks" is pure and simple. It is a maintenance/setup issue. One of the few things I dislike about my baby ninja is the non-adjustable suspension. (OK, technically it IS adjustable, but not EASILY). Mine dives a bit with braking, but it offers a nice plush ride, while still working well enough. The ultra nimble chassis and light weight makes it pretty easy to ride around the shortcomings.

Motofool suggests a close look at your maintenance first. I agree unless you are a heavyweight, in which case, you need some chassis work.

[hobosmeller]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I have a similar bike, weight 180 lb and don't have that problem.

Try a change of fork oil before going crazy replacing parts:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...he_fork_oil%3F

not my thread, thank you for the link though, very informative !!

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by gasguzziler

Thanks for your replies, I'll take a look at the fork oil. I was thinking it might have something to do with me to as I'm a big guy probably pushing 300 pounds so there is that too and being new doesn't help. Do you have any recommendations on A heavier fork oil?

honestly at 300 lbs get some springs that are closer to the right rate. Firming the suspension up via heavier oil will help but the springs stock are really half the rate of what they need to be.

change the fluid while your swapping springs because it likely needs to be done anyways and a little heavier will give a bump in fork control along with the springs.

and smooth smooth smooth with inputs

[csmith12]

269lbs is how much a 250 racer weighs in at that is only .03 seconds off my pace (pretty darn fast). He races on the stock front bits but collapsing don't sound good at all. You got one of two things going on;

1. There is something mechanically wrong with the front end, fluid, springs, etc, ect.
2. Rider sensitivity. It's perfectly fine to be unhappy with the stock bits. But if everything is in working order, the stock stuff will stand up to 400lbs of 2up riders on a spirited canyon carving ride. Been there, done that.

Can you have someone else ride it and give you further input? And if you have it checked out by a tech/shop, might as well replace the springs and oil, it's cheap enough and goes a long, long way in all areas.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by fast1075

Sorry, but as you learn and progress, you learn to brake harder (unless of course you never get out of second gear for fear that it will cause a time vortex or something like that).

Basic survival riding a bike (never mind riding one in a sporting manner) depends to a large degree on being able to consistently take the braking to the edge. Intentionally trying to avoid hard braking, and the resulting lack of the needed skill set earns you an invitation to the Darwin Awards draft.

The issue of the "collapsing forks" is pure and simple. It is a maintenance/setup issue. One of the few things I dislike about my baby ninja is the non-adjustable suspension. (OK, technically it IS adjustable, but not EASILY). Mine dives a bit with braking, but it offers a nice plush ride, while still working well enough. The ultra nimble chassis and light weight makes it pretty easy to ride around the shortcomings.

Motofool suggests a close look at your maintenance first. I agree unless you are a heavyweight, in which case, you need some chassis work.

I thought that as you learn and progress you learn to brake smarter and smoother.. not necessarily harder. That's just what I have found though. I am not a racer. I just expressed exactly what happened to me and my friends trying out my bike. Every one of us thought the forks had no oil in them. The front brakes on the 250r are very powerful when compared to a big cruisers brakes. On a Harley you need to grab a fist of brakes and stomp down on the rears. On the 250r its just finger pressure. After a few hours of me riding around I was getting ZERO front fork dive. This was after I got used to the brakes. I do agree with you that proper working and maintained front forks are VERY important.

[fast1075]

Good braking skills put you at a stop 2 feet before the side of the SUV that ran the stop sign instead of 10 feet on the other side. Bleeding. With broken bones.

You can't do that without proper skills, and you can't do that unless you are braking hard.

Do not confuse grabbing a fist full of lever in a panic, with hard braking. And you can't do it at all without doing it enough to develop muscle memory because if you have to think about it and decide what to do, it's too damn late.

Well developed braking skills ARE smooth and progressive.

[jgcable]

Originally Posted by fast1075

Good braking skills put you at a stop 2 feet before the side of the SUV that ran the stop sign instead of 10 feet on the other side. Bleeding. With broken bones.

You can't do that without proper skills, and you can't do that unless you are braking hard.

Do not confuse grabbing a fist full of lever in a panic, with hard braking. And you can't do it at all without doing it enough to develop muscle memory because if you have to think about it and decide what to do, it's too damn late.

Well developed braking skills ARE smooth and progressive.

Makes sense to me. See... I learn something every day...