March 10th, 2015, 02:27 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Loss of Power, Won't go past 7k RPM
Hello Ninjette Forums,
Correction... it does go past 7k RPM, but the acceleration is still delayed... So it's hard to describe really what exactly is the problem, but I know it's not accelerating like it should be. With the clutch pulled in, when I rev the engine it goes 0 to 12k prefectly fine with no problems. With the clutch out/in gear, when trying to go from 0 to 12k it will accelerate to 6-6.5k fine, then at around this range it seems to lose some power, and going full throttle it will gradually work its way up past this "decreased power" zone until 8.5k and on where it behaves normally again. Furthermore, if I maintain 9k RPM there is a slight chugging between what seems like normal horsepower and substantially decreased horsepower, the amount of push it gives fluctuates and the pitch of the engine will fluctuate high and low in concert with this difference in power. Edit: the video I took is not helpful because wind noise makes it impossible to hear the engine. and not enough detail is shown to see the tachometer... Last futzed with by denshidereku; March 10th, 2015 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Updates... |
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March 10th, 2015, 02:44 PM | #2 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
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Check out the similar-to threads near the bottom of this page.
Have you looked inside your air box and at the air filter? Have rodents put a bunch of crap in there to restrict air flow? Oh yeah... Welcome, Denshi! |
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March 10th, 2015, 02:53 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Ray
Location: 48162
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Get a bottle of Marvel Mystery oil and put a few ounces in the tank and add some gas to mix it up, it may take a tank or two but it can help in cleaning the carbs, tank and plugs, i would also check the air filter and make sure you don't have any blockage on the intake side of things.
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March 10th, 2015, 04:31 PM | #4 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Welcome, denshi !!!
Take a look at this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Troubleshooting Problems can be many: poor flow of fuel, poor flow of intake air, valves out of adjustment, poor sparks, poor compression. Start checking the easy things first.
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March 10th, 2015, 06:12 PM | #5 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Hey why not try this,
People all to often use additives as a "FIX", when in all reality they are most effective as preventive maintenance. I'm sorry but sometimes you have to get get your hands dirty, literally. Your issue could be cause by many numerous problems, if you course provide some details about the bike, ti will help us, help you. Things like maintenance? History? Any and all modifications? Etc....
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March 10th, 2015, 07:15 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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So it's hard to describe really what exactly is the problem, but I know it's not accelerating like it should be.
With the clutch pulled in, when I rev the engine it goes 0 to 12k prefectly fine with no problems. With the clutch out/in gear, when trying to go from 0 to 12k it will accelerate to 6-6.5k fine, then at around this range it seems to lose some power, and going full throttle it will gradually work its way up past this "decreased power" zone until 8.5k and on where it behaves normally again. Furthermore, if I maintain 9k RPM there is a slight chugging between what seems like normal horsepower and substantially decreased horsepower, the amount of push it gives fluctuates and the pitch of the engine will fluctuate high and low in concert with this difference in power. I just recorded my ride with a POV camera and will be uploading it shortly to help describe this issue. |
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March 10th, 2015, 07:34 PM | #7 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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March 10th, 2015, 07:53 PM | #8 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Quote:
Bought it used with 1.7k miles on it Summer 2013. Obviously that low mileage with this old model means it's sat in a garage somewhere mostly unused until I bought it... Drops: This happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AKfsk5jbnU A similar drop occurred during the summer but on dirt gravel at 10mph as opposed to 15mph. Maintenance: When first drop occured, the sight glass was broken by the rear brake pedal so that got replaced, and at the same time the oil was changed. Coolant also was leaking until my dad (a Semi-Truck mechanic) took a look at it and IDK what he did but the leak was fixed... if I recall correctly he probably just checked a variety of hose connections to make sure everything that may have been jarred loose was snug. This was about 4k miles ago and are the most recent oil/coolant changes. Plan on changing the oil soonish (maybe another 2k as it is synthetic). Rear Brake pads and rear tire were replaced before a 1.6k trip. Replaced the old rear tire with a new stock rear tire because it was cheaper than the other tire I had in mind and I wore the old one down to the point the bead wire was exposed so I needed it replaced asap. Chain was adjusted last fall (Septemberish) after I did my annual trip to ohio and back (1.6k trip). --- This problem first occurred on a cold morning (40ish degrees out) when I was in a rush and going full throttle for an extended period of time the bike gradually lost power as though it were losing gas, and continued to only to proceed at 7 to 8k rpm at full throttle. --- More recently there is just a "weak zone" of torque at that same range, but otherwise it operates smooth enough. --- I am currently at 12.7k so I'm overdue to do all the 12k servicing and will plan to do so this weekend. That said, unless my dad did a lot of the 6k service schedule stuff... I am not aware of any other maintenance done to it. Local motorcycle shop said over the phone I probably just need to clean my carbs. Thoughts? |
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March 10th, 2015, 07:56 PM | #9 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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Welcome Denshi, I hope you get your issues worked out.
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March 11th, 2015, 12:48 AM | #10 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Okay so one can assume it spent no time in storage, it's your daily ride. If you've never cleaned the carburetors, it's time now, if anything to help establish a solid baseline, and install a fuel filter too. Also check all fuel, and vacuum hoses for leaks, cracks, etc..... Another thing to check is the fuel itself. Has the problem gone on longer than a single tank, or multiple tanks? Contaminated? Proper Petcock function? Since the bike has been dropped, it's possible that the sediment in the fuel bowls as been shook up and got it the circuits, and/or float height was disturbed. Checked the air filter? Dropping a bike is rough, especially on the carburetors. You can try some fuel system additives, like Seafoam, Chevron, Dri-Gas, whatever you like. Also if there is no fuel filter, install one ASAP.
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March 11th, 2015, 01:48 AM | #11 | ||||
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Quote:
Quote:
Googling price of carb cleaning supplies, it looks like it would cost me about $100 for me to do it myself... Local dealer quoted me at $200 to do it, would it plausibly be more effective to just have the local dealer shop do it for me? And while they're at it adjust my valves for me (one of the more complicated things on the 12k service list there). Quote:
Quote:
This started Early November 2014, which makes it seem unlikely to have correlation to the drops. Haven't checked air filter yet, and 2000+ models supposedly come with a fuel filter already... |
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March 11th, 2015, 01:53 AM | #12 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Fuel filter, If so, you might want to take a look at it, might need replacing
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...9019-1092.html Odds are the carburetors could use a cleaning/rebuild. If your comfortable cleaning them yourself, and have the proper equipment, then by all means do it. If not let a professional do it, or you could stop by my place and I'll do it for you, just supply the parts. One must remember your messing with gasoline, so take caution. SIDENOTE: in your video clip, were you riding 2up?
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March 11th, 2015, 05:48 AM | #13 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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Quote:
Often nothing needs to be replaced, but you might need new float valves or gaskets. I polish the float seats by dipping a Q-tip in metal polish and twirling it in the seat until it is clean and bright. Do this before soaking the carb.
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March 11th, 2015, 06:57 AM | #14 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
If the tank hasn't been full there's a good chance condensation has formed. Completely draining the tank and floatbowls (look at the fuel that comes out) and refilling is the best solution. What gas are you using? Because you are in WI, you may be able to get ethanol-free 87 octane at Cenex stations. Gas without ethanol is always a good idea if you can get it. The Ninja will make the most power and get the best economy on ethanol-free 87. Check under the seat for anything that may be blocking the intake snorkel. Look to make sure no critters moved in and made a home in the airbox over the winter also. |
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March 11th, 2015, 08:23 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Yes, and its also partially because of the extra weight in the back that I was not able to recover from the rear-wheel skid. (I think the passenger jumped off at the wrong moment is why).
But yeah... not exactly our most intelligent moment, icy roads going 2up to a movie theatre... In our defense though, that drop happened 500 ft from where I was going to drop him off... we we're on the home stretch when it got dropped. |
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March 11th, 2015, 08:34 AM | #16 | |||
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Quote:
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March 11th, 2015, 12:09 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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I was ATGATT, and strongly urged the passenger to wear more protective gear, but he insisted not to.
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March 11th, 2015, 01:11 PM | #18 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Just think if he would have gotten injured?? Or worse??? Who do you think is going to pay for it??? And I've heard the famous lie, it's my friend, they would NEVER do that. Just something to think about.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
March 11th, 2015, 01:14 PM | #19 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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One thing that owners forget is the safety of their passenger, even more important than your own I feel.
Hence I have a few sets of gear for them as well. I feel very strongly about keeping myself and my passenger safe. Just go to www.rockthegear.org and read my friend's story, Britney"QUEEN B" Morrow, she was the passenger. Case and point, a few years ago I got a call from my daughter, and she found herself stranded, I detoured to her, as I was on my bike. When I got to her, obviously she had no gear. Waiting for someone else to come and pick her up wasn't an option(long story)* So I proceeded to give her all my gear, helmet, jacket, overpants, gloves. I know what your gonna say, but it was my only daughter, she was in trouble, and I had no other options, so I made sure if anything did happen, at least she would be safe, I couldn't live with myself any other way. I just took it really slow and easy, drove like an old lady going to church on Sunday morning, and all ended well.
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March 11th, 2015, 01:17 PM | #20 | |
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Name: Al
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Quote:
atgaatt
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March 11th, 2015, 02:49 PM | #21 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Quote:
I'm young and all, but not this naive... I can easily see best friends suing each other over something life-changing like a motorcycle accident. |
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March 11th, 2015, 02:53 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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You're right, the giant bucket of chem dip is like $20 on amazon...
Although Next Dimension Carb Spray (recommended on some other site) is looking to be like $80 on Amazon... I figured I would need both so total of $100. As far as other tools though, again my dad's a semi-truck mechanic foreman thing... and has just about every automotive tool you can imagine in his garage so I'll use those. For the moment, since Marvel Mystery Oil is $4 and also incredibly easy to use I'm going to try it for a couple tanks and see how that goes. |
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March 11th, 2015, 03:17 PM | #23 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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You didn't answer my question about the gas.
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March 11th, 2015, 04:12 PM | #24 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Quote:
For the moment though, I'm going to try the mystery oil mix in my gas for a couple of tanks and see how this changes things. During the 1 hour ride I had just now, it seems to kinda help, but it's not completely resolved... That said, I wouldn't expect adding this cleaner to gas would fix it immediately either because it is a passive means of cleaning... Checking underneath the seat I did not notice anything that could be blocking anything or odd animal insertions. |
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March 11th, 2015, 04:27 PM | #25 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Bad batch of gas+storage=worse gas.
Try the additive for a few tanks, all else fails your cleaning the carburetors.
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March 11th, 2015, 04:36 PM | #26 | |
Rev Limiter
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Quote:
The best thing to do is completely drain the tank and floatbowls, but it's up to you. Are you running ethanol-free? You should be able to find it. It lasts longer than gas with ethanol and is generally a better idea. I can't say I've heard of using marvel Mystery Oil in the gas. My recommendation would be to add 1oz per gal or Techron Concentrate to a fresh tank of gas (after draining completely). Adding new fuel to possible bad fuel won't tell you anything or solve problems. |
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March 11th, 2015, 04:48 PM | #27 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
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March 11th, 2015, 04:55 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Before I fueled up, I put in 3.5ish oz (its probably closer to 4, it wasn't an exact measurement).
For the duration of the ride from my house to the gas station (3 miles?), does mean it is an exceedingly high concentration of the mystery oil in the gas, afterwards adding the 3.5 gal of gas though would have diluted it and bring things to a more acceptable level, that said it's still probably slightly over your recommendation. I will look into draining the tank and floatbowls this weekend... To be honest though, depending on how lazy I'm feeling this weekend, it might or might not be done though. |
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March 12th, 2015, 07:21 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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I'm not familiar with that particular carb spray, but my general opinion on sprays is you can save your money by peeing on the carbs instead. Both are about equally effective. Sprays just aren't as aggressive as Chem Dip and, being sprays, they are only in contact with the deposits gumming up the carbs for a short time. The longer the carbs soak in Chem Dip, the better.
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March 12th, 2015, 07:35 AM | #30 | |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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Quote:
Verify that ALL circuits are clear with an air compressor, no canned air. Just when using Chem-Dip use caution due to there are O-rings between the carburetors, and of course the plastic fuel inlet, and other parts between the carburetors. Part# 92005A and 92005B Be sure to completely disassemble, don't forget the choke assemblies as well, Part # 16016 You could split the carburetors, but I don't recommend that for the beginner, and even the average person.
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March 12th, 2015, 07:43 AM | #31 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Rebel 250s, Ninja 250s VN750s (currently nine total) Posts: 465
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And the rubber tipped float valves, etc., too. I don't recommend that others do this because Chem Dip is flammable and there is potential for fire, but I use Chem Dip in my ultrasonic cleaner. Gets the carbs really clean in a hurry.
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March 12th, 2015, 08:21 AM | #32 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Use Techron Concentrate or Seafoam, (1oz per gal) as a fuel system cleaner.
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March 12th, 2015, 08:45 AM | #33 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't really want spontaneous fires from chem dip, and not particularly motivated to learn how to be more careful, and my boss who's also a motorcycle guy said that it's probably an issue that's above my level of comprehension to be able to fix. |
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March 12th, 2015, 08:54 AM | #34 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Lee
Location: Monroe, LA
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Quote:
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March 17th, 2015, 04:43 PM | #36 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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The major issue ended up being a bad chain... I knew the chain was not ideal, but didn't think it was what was causing this specific issue.
After the tune-up and chain replacement problem seems to have disappeared. |
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March 17th, 2015, 05:53 PM | #37 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
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March 17th, 2015, 07:30 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org member
Name: denshi
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 '07 Posts: 13
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Is that "WTF this guy is an idiot"
or "WTF, if the symptoms you described are correct, I have no idea how the chain is involved in this" For the former: Yeah probably. For the latter: When I picked up the bike, the shop technician stated that "When I test rode it, I did not feel the lack of power you described, although a 250cc bike also doesn't necessarily have that much power to begin with so it's also harder to feel whatsoever. It seems much more likely that the power loss you were describing was a consequence of the jerkiness of the bike as a result of there being tight and loose spots on the chain." |
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March 17th, 2015, 08:18 PM | #39 |
in your machine
Name: Scott
Location: Summer Shade, Ky.
Join Date: Oct 2014 Motorcycle(s): 98 Ninja 250/F12 aka ZX-2R "SERENITY", 91 Ninja 500/A5 aka ZX-5R "Phoenix", 84 Honda GL1200A "SIREN" Posts: A lot.
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The chain was the cause.
I would never insult a forum member. I'm just glad that you bike is fixed, and your happy
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