Cornering Practice (with video)

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by subxero

^be wary of this, it can be just as detrimental as helpful. If you are going to go for a ride with a more experienced rider, make sure it is someone who does not have an ego and that they fully understand that you are a NEW rider and you would like to follow them at a very law-abiding comfortable pace. And that you simply want to follow and mimic body position, line choice, braking ect... and that it would be nice if they know a particular section that is good for a certain technique that you should really focus on that during that section to maybe pull over and say (EXAMPLE) "HEY, there are some double apex turns coming up, pay close attention to line choice and turn in points"

It should be more of a clinic than a "Try and keep up" Otherwise you won't learn crap other than how to get yourself into trouble in a hurry.

I second this advice, Mitch.

Stay away from group rides as long as you can.

I couldn't see anything wrong in the video, except invading the bicycle lane; that is illegal on my side of the continent.

Congratulations on the new camera !!!

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by ally99

One more tip. Painted lines are slippery. Avoid touching paint when leaned over.

Thanks, thats something I haven't been thinking about and should have been! Is it dangerous to change lanes in a looong sweeping twist(for lack of a better term) on a road when you're leaned over? Because I've been doing that without thinking about paint..

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I second this advice, Mitch.

Stay away from group rides as long as you can.

I couldn't see anything wrong in the video, except invading the bicycle lane; that is illegal on my side of the continent.

Congratulations on the new camera !!!

Wait so dont group ride? Why is that? everyone but you has said the opposite... : o

[greenmachine]

Second video is uploading to youtube!

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Thanks, thats something I haven't been thinking about and should have been! Is it dangerous to change lanes in a looong sweeping twist(for lack of a better term) on a road when you're leaned over? Because I've been doing that without thinking about paint..

Hey green go on Google and look up twist of the wrist 2 and watch it. keep in mind (lean over) is a lot more then what you had been doing in your last vid

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Wait so dont group ride? Why is that? everyone but you has said the opposite... : o

you may follow some one into a turn way to fast for your skill and crash.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Wait so dont group ride? Why is that? everyone but you has said the opposite... : o

Because I care much about inexperienced riders.

Do you want to do it?
Why?
What do you expect will happen?

It is no more than my honest opinion: You are not ready for that yet.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I second this advice, Mitch.

Stay away from group rides as long as you can.

I couldn't see anything wrong in the video, except invading the bicycle lane; that is illegal on my side of the continent.

Congratulations on the new camera !!!

I meant ask someone as in 1 person to do a little tour of some twisty roads to get your feet wet. Someone to act like a guide to tow a newer rider around. Be up front about your skills and that you're looking for someone to play twisty tour guide. I did this for a new rider who wanted to practice riding at night and I took plenty of precaution. She had less than 1000 miles and she was riding an R6. She did fine and no one got hurt. And yes she was cute.

I'll be the first one to tell you group rides turn to stupid in the first 15 minutes. Ask and you shall receive. If I lived down south I myself would have no problem taking you around. Just post up something similar to what Im saying on this forum or your local forum. There's a few good people out there that should be willing to help.

[JohnnyBravo]

Congrats on the new cam!
The vid reminded me of Groundhog Day... Yea the movie.
Most places the lines are shiny and reflective cause they have tiny glass balls in the paint... Slippery? H E 2•:hockeysticksmiley; yea!!!
You def don't wanna be towed around by a nut that thinks they are gods gift to motorcycles, the kind that plays track on the street... Why you ask??? Cause they will ride crazy like they normally do, and you will ride your ride and won't see them again till the next day, or you will try to follow "pro" guy and jump in the riptide with no floaties on. My first " group " ride, wound up me tooling around by myself as "group" looked like they were running from the cops last time I saw them.

Keep up the practice, try to practice the best techniques you can! Wanna practice track stuff??? Do it on a track, please.

No flame here

[ally99]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Thanks, thats something I haven't been thinking about and should have been! Is it dangerous to change lanes in a looong sweeping twist(for lack of a better term) on a road when you're leaned over? Because I've been doing that without thinking about paint..

If you're on the edge of your tire and hit paint, there is a chance of sliding out, especially if the paint is wet! Just be cautious and limit (or avoid) your time on painted lines when leaned.

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Wait so dont group ride? Why is that? everyone but you has said the opposite... : o

I wouldn't start at your level with a group ride, but maybe ask one of your trusted friends if he'd lead you on an easy, slow-paced ride. Group mentalities tend to leave inexperienced riders playing catch-up, and trust me, it is never good to ride above your current skill level.

[adouglas]

Johnnybravo nailed it.

Random group rides tend to be either exercises in irresponsible riding or adventures in trying to keep people from getting lost. More often than not, at some point testosterone kicks in and somebody starts treating it like a race.

Not quite the same thing as riding with like-minded people of similar ability and mindset.

The Bear Mountain group ride was great fun, but sure enough we got separated/lost at least two or three separate times. And there was at least one guy who wanted to go WAY faster than anyone else.

The best reason to avoid groups as a new rider is that the group itself becomes a distraction. You're concerned with not getting separated, not holding people up, not dropping slower riders, not getting lost (because the route ALWAYS seems to be one you don't know), showing that you do know what you're doing, etc. etc. You'll learn a lot more by riding your own ride and focusing on skills.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

I meant ask someone as in 1 person to do a little tour of some twisty roads to get your feet wet. Someone to act like a guide to tow a newer rider around. Be up front about your skills and that you're looking for someone to play twisty tour guide. I did this for a new rider who wanted to practice riding at night and I took plenty of precaution. She had less than 1000 miles and she was riding an R6. She did fine and no one got hurt. And yes she was cute.......

That kind of one-to-one couching by an experienced and patient rider is the best that can happen to a beginner rider.

Kudos to you, Cameron, for doing that for that cute girl !!!
You probably save her some pain and bike's damage.

Many group rides are good, but those groups are formed by coordinated riders of similar experience and skills, who take time to plan a route, meting points, etc.

[greenmachine]

Link to original page on YouTube.

At the beggining on that crazy upward spiral turn, I cut the corner big time, I think it was target fixation, I have an issue with cutting corners atm, I think it get nervous going around the turn so i lean in too early afraid ill do it too late and might go into oncoming traffic :/ Not sure but i really need to work on it...

The video is still pretty ****** and I'm still pretty bad.

[subxero]

no one is pro over night. Keep practicing but do it in a safe manor. I only watched the first 2 minutes so maybe it got better but you need to work on staying more in the lane obviously it is a very dangerous habit you have right now. You may want to think about practicing in a large open, clean parking lot with some cones.

The thing that gets me is that you are clearly going to cut the corner but you also do very little to correct this and prevent it from happening which leads me to believe that if something did happen and you had to adjust your line to avoid and incident you would not be able to avoid it.

Keep practicing, gear up and be safe, this last video makes me nervous for you...

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Link to original page on YouTube.

At the beggining on that crazy upward spiral turn, I cut the corner big time, I think it was target fixation, I have an issue with cutting corners atm, I think it get nervous going around the turn so i lean in too early afraid ill do it too late and might go into oncoming traffic :/ Not sure but i really need to work on it...

The video is still pretty ****** and I'm still pretty bad.

Glad you can finally admit to what I posted about you fixating I may sound like a d-bag most of the time but I do kind of no what I am talking about. your better off going slower work really hard on the line and not the speed you are going heck try taking it at 5mph a few times but run the line you are going to do it at a faster speed.

[fishdip]

O and at 6:10 is a very nice job this is how you need to take any of the turns for right now

[csmith12]

The corner starting at 4:30 was excellent, well done!

I think you issue with cutting the corners and turning in to early is because you haven't found your line. Search on youtube for the 2step visual drill. I think it will go a long way helping you out.

Do you feel that it would help if you knew that you had a workable line before you begin the turn? How do you think it would help you?

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by subxero

no one is pro over night. Keep practicing but do it in a safe manor. I only watched the first 2 minutes so maybe it got better but you need to work on staying more in the lane obviously it is a very dangerous habit you have right now. You may want to think about practicing in a large open, clean parking lot with some cones.

The thing that gets me is that you are clearly going to cut the corner but you also do very little to correct this and prevent it from happening which leads me to believe that if something did happen and you had to adjust your line to avoid and incident you would not be able to avoid it.

Keep practicing, gear up and be safe, this last video makes me nervous for you...

I'm always safe and geared up, the only corner I cut is in the first 2 minutes and the reason I cut it is because its a giant spiraling right hand turn thats on a slant and i freaked out a tad, that road only leads to a golf course and hardly anyone travels it.

yes probably if something jumped on the road while i was mid corner I would not be able to fix my line very well, I would probably stand it up and brake/swerve... but hey ive only been riding a few weeks here.

[nautica]

As has been said group rides aren't ideal for new riders. The feeling that you need to catch up can get you into a bad situation and it's not hard to start riding out of your comfort zone, especially when still learning a good place for you. The best thing to do is find someone who will ride with you for the experience and fun and not see how far you can push the limit. If you're riding with someone and you're not comfortable with how they ride (too fast, recklessly, etc.) then stop and go do your own thing. I've ridden with people who were reckless and I've ridden with extremely quick guys who didn't mind keeping a sane pace, and the guys who help are the only ones I ride with anymore.

We all started somewhere so don't take anything too personally, they're just trying to help you become a better rider.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

yes probably if something jumped on the road while i was mid corner I would not be able to fix my line very well, I would probably stand it up and brake/swerve... but hey ive only been riding a few weeks here.

yeah sorry I could only watch the first 2 minutes as i'm at work. I could see how that would be an intimidating turn. I understand you are a beginner and am trying to offer some what constructive criticism, I don't want to see you posting in the crash thread anytime soon.

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The corner starting at 4:30 was excellent, well done!

I think you issue with cutting the corners and turning in to early is because you haven't found your line. Search on youtube for the 2step visual drill. I think it will go a long way helping you out.

Do you feel that it would help if you knew that you had a workable line before you begin the turn? How do you think it would help you?

Thanks! and yeah atm I'm kind of just trying to make the corner and not worrying about "a line" because Idk what a proper line is or how to chose one for specific corners ect. I suppose id be cornering more consistently if it was always the same line, thats how it would help me.

perfect practice makes perfect

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by subxero

yeah sorry I could only watch the first 2 minutes as i'm at work. I could see how that would be an intimidating turn. I understand you are a beginner and am trying to offer some what constructive criticism, I don't want to see you posting in the crash thread anytime soon.

And I appreciate it a TON, thats why im doing all this

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by subxero

yeah sorry I could only watch the first 2 minutes as i'm at work. I could see how that would be an intimidating turn. I understand you are a beginner and am trying to offer some what constructive criticism, I don't want to see you posting in the crash thread anytime soon.

Do you have an advice on how to change my path of travel mid-corner if I do end up cutting or need to avoid something? I've been under the impression that as a new rider I dont want to do anything but maintain my angle/line and roll on, any other actions can lead to a crash very easily.

Although I do know in the back of my head front brake=wider back brake=tighter (Very lightly of course) but i dont do that out of fear of my lack of finesse and likelyhood of me crashing

[csmith12]

Only been riding a few weeks? Ah... some things are making sense now.

Imho, after getting a handle on the controls (pun intended ) the next step is all about vision. Even at high levels of skill in riding, your only as good as your visual skills. Starting on them early will be the most beneficial skill to work on.

Also, changing your line mid-corner is something to work on later. At your current skill level, you shouldn't be out riding your vision as it relates to the distance you need to be able to come to a full stop while in complete control.

Have any friends that ride that could mentor you? Not much better than some good ole one on one.

[subxero]

You are partially right in thinking that as a new rider or any rider you don't want to try to maneuver to much mid turn...BUT if you are going to crash, or you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation a line adjustment is a better option and should be learned.

Since you are a beginner you are most likely not taking corners at very fast speeds or close to the ninja's full capabilities, that being said some minor adjustments at low speeds (on dry clean pavement) should not be dangerous as long as things are done smoothly.

So first off you obviously would like to get your line choice perfect from the start and not have to make any in turn adjustments.....this is not always the case unfortunately.

Both brakes should be avoided while mid turn, the only exception is if a stop or serious deceleration is the only thing saving you from incident. In that case like MSF, straighten the bike up the best you can, pick a straight line you can brake in that will not put in in danger and apply brakes, but that is more emergency than just line adjustment.
Not sure I am the best person to try and put this into words but for mid turn line adjustment fine throttle control and very slight control input goes a long way. I am no pro so it is hard for me to say everything that happens during mid line change, but I feel that a slight throttle adjustment is all that is needed... (I am most likely adjusting my bar inputs as well all on top of my body position but it all just kinda happens after the throttle adjustment. So I generally start the chain reaction with an adjustment of throttle) Always very slight, slow, and smooth.

Again idealistically you should not have to adjust your line but again no one is perfect.
Idealistically as others will say "once the throttle is opened it is applied smoothly and continuously through the turn until complete"... or something like that. But again if you are cutting a corner to tight and there is a truck coming and you are going to be a bug on its left headlight I choose to break that rule and adjust my line. Decel will make you go wider, but be aware of this and anticipate it and counteracting it after the original adjustment has been made.

I think noobies get in trouble when they do a decal line adjustment and they start to go wide unexpectedly and never thought that far ahead. Unaware that they would have to do something else to compensate for the line change because it is no longer a good line then target fix on the new wider line which leads off the road. = crash.

It is hard to explain...perhaps i'm in over my head here

[JohnnyBravo]

I hope you know how to counter steer before you get much faster. If not look into it, ya get much faster and the steering ain't gonna work the same, I may have seen it wrong though. Your doing well, but same as everyone you have areas in need of adjustment.

Your vid skills are getin better to!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

.......I think it get nervous going around the turn so i lean in too early afraid ill do it too late and might go into oncoming traffic :/ Not sure but i really need to work on it...

Before it is too late, you need to stop what you are doing and re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

It seems that you love speed or that somebody has convinced you that riding fast is riding well.
If that is the case, stick to track days and stay away from traffic and street riding, it is just too dangerous.

If what you want is to become a good street rider, then you need to start all the way up from the basic concepts and skills.
Becoming proficient at stopping is the first one in that list and riding fast is the very last one.

Nobody gives a rat tail about how many milliseconds you save in your commute by straighten a corner.
Your street lines are commended by asphalt's and traffic's conditions, never by saving rolled distance.

Please, show us a video of a parking lot practice, coming to a full stop from 15 mph, ending up in first gear consistently.
Then show us another one where you reduce your speed more slowly (around 20 mph slower) and suddenly accelerate again, keeping the best gear combination for different speeds: the condition is that the engine has to show some torque at the moment you open the throttle.

Keep practicing that for a while, while you keep it at the posted speed limit and following the trajectory of the road (not over the center of the lane, it is slippery and dirty there).

Avoid over-confidence like a disease !!!

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Before it is too late, you need to stop what you are doing and re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

It seems that you love speed or that somebody has convinced you that riding fast is riding well.
If that is the case, stick to track days and stay away from traffic and street riding, it is just too dangerous.

If what you want is to become a good street rider, then you need to start all the way up from the basic concepts and skills.
Becoming proficient at stopping is the first one in that list and riding fast is the very last one.

Nobody gives a rat tail about how many milliseconds you save in your commute by straighten a corner.
Your street lines are commended by asphalt's and traffic's conditions, never by saving rolled distance.

Please, show us a video of a parking lot practice, coming to a full stop from 15 mph, ending up in first gear consistently.
Then show us another one where you reduce your speed more slowly (around 20 mph slower) and suddenly accelerate again, keeping the best gear combination for different speeds: the condition is that the engine has to show some torque at the moment you open the throttle.

Keep practicing that for a while, while you keep it at the posted speed limit and following the trajectory of the road (not over the center of the lane, it is slippery and dirty there).

Avoid over-confidence like a disease !!!

Lol funny you bring this up go read the comments he has posted on you tube my favorite is this one




Moto Man commented 1 month ago



My cars faster than your car bla bla bla, All superbikes are faster. You're in a car because you want to be safe while looking cool and getting where you need to go, if you want to go fast or talk about speed grow a pair and get on a bike or shut up. You're annoying.

[subxero]

@greenmachine This is a good idea. I really think some parking lot practice will go along way for you. Mid turn line adjustment is not something you should be thinking about practicing on the actual street and is more of a last resort thing that I was trying to get at. But you can't just learn offense, you need to throw some defensive techniques in there sooner or later. JMO

Originally Posted by Motofool

Before it is too late, you need to stop what you are doing and re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

It seems that you love speed or that somebody has convinced you that riding fast is riding well.
If that is the case, stick to track days and stay away from traffic and street riding, it is just too dangerous.

If what you want is to become a good street rider, then you need to start all the way up from the basic concepts and skills.
Becoming proficient at stopping is the first one in that list and riding fast is the very last one.

Nobody gives a rat tail about how many milliseconds you save in your commute by straighten a corner.
Your street lines are commended by asphalt's and traffic's conditions, never by saving rolled distance.

Please, show us a video of a parking lot practice, coming to a full stop from 15 mph, ending up in first gear consistently.
Then show us another one where you reduce your speed more slowly (around 20 mph slower) and suddenly accelerate again, keeping the best gear combination for different speeds: the condition is that the engine has to show some torque at the moment you open the throttle.

Keep practicing that for a while, while you keep it at the posted speed limit and following the trajectory of the road (not over the center of the lane, it is slippery and dirty there).

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Before it is too late, you need to stop what you are doing and re-evaluate what you want to achieve.

It seems that you love speed or that somebody has convinced you that riding fast is riding well.
If that is the case, stick to track days and stay away from traffic and street riding, it is just too dangerous.

If what you want is to become a good street rider, then you need to start all the way up from the basic concepts and skills.
Becoming proficient at stopping is the first one in that list and riding fast is the very last one.

Nobody gives a rat tail about how many milliseconds you save in your commute by straighten a corner.
Your street lines are commended by asphalt's and traffic's conditions, never by saving rolled distance.

Please, show us a video of a parking lot practice, coming to a full stop from 15 mph, ending up in first gear consistently.
Then show us another one where you reduce your speed more slowly (around 20 mph slower) and suddenly accelerate again, keeping the best gear combination for different speeds: the condition is that the engine has to show some torque at the moment you open the throttle.

Keep practicing that for a while, while you keep it at the posted speed limit and following the trajectory of the road (not over the center of the lane, it is slippery and dirty there).

Avoid over-confidence like a disease !!!

Thanks for all the tips! Really appreciated! I will make a video of that shortly, I dont speed or have a love of speed, I got up to 60 because I was continueing to roll on throughout that very long traffic filled turn, I was nervous. I dont think I passed any other speed limits throughout the video.

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by subxero

@greenmachine This is a good idea. I really think some parking lot practice will go along way for you. Mid turn line adjustment is not something you should be thinking about practicing on the actual street and is more of a last resort thing that I was trying to get at. But you can't just learn offense, you need to throw some defensive techniques in there sooner or later. JMO

Probably true that I have not been practicing any defensive manuvers lately, ive been focusing on cornering.

[NevadaWolf]

First off: Yay! Emptier roads. Good choices though there is still traffic.

Second: as a new rider, worry more about controlling the bike rather than the camera. (around 2:52, starting it with your right hand.) You can start the camera on the straights. Or just leave it on and do the editing back at home.

Third: That one you clipped going to the golf course? Try it again, slower, and focus on keeping your bike inside the white line with a buffer.

Fourth: I agree with @csmith12 and @fishdip, that 4:30 and 6:10 corners are beautiful. But, IMO, it's cause you were going slow and controlled around them.

As @Motofool has said, I think here it's you going faster than your skill. You've only been riding a few weeks and are trying to mimic track riders. Whoops, wrong way to go about this.If you are thinking you are going to miss and overshoot corners, or are getting nervous approaching them, you need to slow down.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Avoid over-confidence like a disease !!!

Imma steal this if you don't mind good sir.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Imma steal this if you don't mind good sir.

spice it up with a specific disease.

Like Avoid over confidence like it's the CLAP

or

Avoid over confidence like it's Hep B

IDK?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Imma steal this if you don't mind good sir.

Actually, Chris, as I have learned more than a couple of riding tips by reading your posts, I may have copied that one from you

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

Thanks for all the tips! Really appreciated!.........I was nervous...........

You are welcome

I have been as nervous as you watching those vids !!!

You feeling nervous is what makes this dangerous, and this is the main reason:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...3&postcount=19

Space and time are your friends, which will calm things down for you; don't kill them with unnecessary speed.
You first become a slow good rider, then and only then you can become a fast good rider.

Let's start by practicing safe emergency braking and downshifting on a straight line first.
Later on, we introduce the complications of practicing that on a circular trajectory, which will save you from a fall on a turn by chopping the throttle or grabbing a handful of brake while leaned over.

As Chris pointed out, proper vision is the very important skill to develop.
Throttle and front brake control follow in importance because we can over-do those too easily.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Actually, Chris, as I have learned more than a couple of riding tips by reading your posts, I may have copied that one from you

Nope, that is all yours, own it!

[greenmachine]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Lol funny you bring this up go read the comments he has posted on you tube my favorite is this one




Moto Man commented 1 month ago



My cars faster than your car bla bla bla, All superbikes are faster. You're in a car because you want to be safe while looking cool and getting where you need to go, if you want to go fast or talk about speed grow a pair and get on a bike or shut up. You're annoying.

What I said stands, not embarrassed by that comment at all, Bikes ARE faster than cars and the commentators were being annoying. In no way does that condone speeding on the street however? Me loving motorcycles and growing up watching motogp and knowing that bikes>cars and expressing my opinion in no way shows that I have a love for speed or speed on the street all the time.

Their comments, and my comment, were all about what goes down on a track.

I also say things such as

"I'm sure the car that will eventually smash into and kill you with no gear on will care whether or not you're pushing it, enjoy death.
P.S. You're totally a genius and everyone at the DMV and MSF that you took that told you to always wear gear were just liars and they made up those statistics and people are always fine when they wreck with no gear."

I am very safety conscious.

[csmith12]

I don't want to burst your bubble but don't think a bike can outperform a car. A well set up car will shame a bike any day.

For example;

At Mid-Ohio, my local track
An off da hook lap time on a bike: 1:27 (set via AMA Pro racers)
The average I group average car track day lap time: 1:15 (your next door neighbor and what not)

Don't fool yourself or anyone else. The average car is a force not to be taken lightly.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by greenmachine

What I said stands, not embarrassed by that comment at all, Bikes ARE faster than cars and the commentators were being annoying. In no way does that condone speeding on the street however? Me loving motorcycles and growing up watching motogp and knowing that bikes>cars and expressing my opinion in no way shows that I have a love for speed or speed on the street all the time.Their comments, and my comment, were all about what goes down on a track.

It's ok if you do, speed is like an addiction and I have had it since I was young. If I am in a car that can go fast...sooner or later I am going to push it, no way around it, I can't be trusted. Same goes for a motorcycle and not trying to sound like a douche or talk the ninja down but one of the reasons I got a ninja250 was because it did not have crazy break neck acceleration and speed. Since I know I can not trust myself to keep the speed down I needed to find another way to keep the demon at bay. So all this coming from a bit of a hypocrite but try and get your kicks at the track not on the street.

I would now like to point out that my ninja250 will comfortably take corners faster than I am willing to go so looks like my plan didn't work very well the demon lives!!

but in all seriousness good judgment goes a long way but it seems like you either have it... or you don't, lets hope you have it.