When to counter-steer?

[RedNinja21]

I'm wondering is there an appropriate time for counter-steering? I do it almost every turn and it seems I'm able to lean more everytime and build more self-confidence. But, I have been watching a bunch of youtube videos and lots of riders actually turn into the turn. As in, they steer left if they're making a left turn.

My question is, do most riders counter-steer at certain turns at certain speed? Should I counter-steer every turn?

[Sk8dude]

In general unless it is a very slow corner, you need to counter steer to get the bike turn where you want it to go. Turning from a stop, or under about 5mph most of the time you'll turn the direction you want to go. And after a while you'll know when you need to and when you don't.

[alex.s]

counter steering works at every speed. steering the bars in one direction pulls the wheel in that direction causing the bike to lean in the opposite direction.

counter-steering is the only way to accurately modify lean angle. lean angle is your main steering method on a motorcycle going above 2 mph.

the only "catch" is that at extremely slow speeds like on a bicycle, your body weight is able to counter-act the lean provided by counter-steering, giving you a more car-like steering feel.

the reason you "see" their bars going in the direction of the turn is because that's what the bike does to turn that direction. counter-steering comes before that point. if you watch carefully on all those videos you can see the bars turn the opposite direction very briefly. like i said, counter-steering is how you change lean angle. lean angle determines your steering

[csmith12]

An inline 2 wheeled vehicle will always need a "countersteer" to initiate a turn at any speed greater than 0. From the smallest bike to the largest motorcycle.

The GOAL is to have all steering complete before rolling on the throttle. "Lazy Steering" as you have seen in a lot of videos, have some drawbacks; possibility of excessive entry speed, requiring a tighter line at corner exit, steering corrections mid corner, slower exit speed and a line that does not allow for (rule #1) a smooth throttle roll throughout the turn.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by RedNinja21

But, I have been watching a bunch of youtube videos and lots of riders actually turn into the turn. As in, they steer left if they're making a left turn.

As posted above, countersteering is needed to help initiate a turn at speed. I'm not sure at what angles the youtube video shows of the bikes turning but if you were to watch them from straight on, you will see that the riders will actually countersteer first and the bike will move on a slight tangent away from the curve causing the contact patch of the front tire to point away from the turn. This is known as out-tracking. The bike's mass resists this lateral movement and forces the top of the bike to lean into the turn. Depending on your bike, lean angle, speed, type of turn, etc., as your bike begins to lean in, you may start to turn your front tire back towards the turn to help stabilize your lean.

[Clearlynotstefan]

Originally Posted by alex.s

counter steering works at every speed. steering the bars in one direction pulls the wheel in that direction causing the bike to lean in the opposite direction.

counter-steering is the only way to accurately modify lean angle. lean angle is your main steering method on a motorcycle going above 2 mph.

the only "catch" is that at extremely slow speeds like on a bicycle, your body weight is able to counter-act the lean provided by counter-steering, giving you a more car-like steering feel.

the reason you "see" their bars going in the direction of the turn is because that's what the bike does to turn that direction. counter-steering comes before that point. if you watch carefully on all those videos you can see the bars turn the opposite direction very briefly. like i said, counter-steering is how you change lean angle. lean angle determines your steering

Actually you have that backwards, Countersteering determines where the bike goes, with leaning as a result. Check out keith code's no bs bike
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

[ally99]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The GOAL is to have all steering complete before rolling on the throttle. "Lazy Steering" as you have seen in a lot of videos, have some drawbacks; possibility of excessive entry speed, requiring a tighter line at corner exit, steering corrections mid corner, slower exit speed and a line that does not allow for (rule #1) a smooth throttle roll throughout the turn.

+1

You countersteer at any speed over about 5mph. Don't try to think too much into it. It's something we do naturally on any set of 2-wheels, including a bicycle. It's good to notice it and practice it as you're learning to ride, but don't focus too much on trying to force yourself into a countersteer. It happens all by itself. Thank you physics!

[LazinCajun]

For the record, there's nothing magical about this 5-8 mph number that gets thrown around. Now for a little physics discussion...

If the bike isn't leaned when you start a turn, centrifugal force (plus the fact that the center of gravity is off the ground) would mean that the bike would fall over to the outside every time. By leaning, roughly speaking you're using the weight of the bike to balance the centrifugal force that wants you to fall to the outside. Therefore, we have to lean the bike to turn without falling (duh!)

There are 2 ways to lean the bike: countersteering or shifting your weight side to side, where the motorcycle shifts the opposite direction.

Think of countersteering as temporarily unbalancing the bike to cause it to lean. The idea is to use the centrifugal force from a short turn in the opposite direction to create the lean necessary to balance the turn. The centrifugal force in turn depends on a) how fast you're going (faster = more force), b) the radius of the turn (tighter = more force), and c) the mass of the bike+rider (not important for this discussion). The size of the centrifugal forces determines how fast you lean over.

What this basically implies is that at very low speeds, it's a little harder to generate a lean from countersteering: because your speed is low, you need a tighter radius to get the same centrifugal force. This is easy to see in practice -- as you go very slowly, say at a stoplight, you need more dramatic steering motions to stay in balance.

Another take on the same idea is that you have slightly less control from countersteering at low speeds, and therefore body positioning gives you relatively more control compared to countersteering at these speeds. That's why counter-weighting is important to making low speed maneuvers like U-Turns.

Here's a video demonstrating most of this:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

For the record, there's nothing magical about this 5-8 mph number that gets thrown around. Now for a little physics discussion...

If the bike isn't leaned when you start a turn, centrifugal force (plus the fact that the center of gravity is off the ground) would mean that the bike would fall over to the outside every time. By leaning, roughly speaking you're using the weight of the bike to balance the centrifugal force that wants you to fall to the outside. Therefore, we have to lean the bike to turn without falling (duh!)

There are 2 ways to lean the bike: countersteering or shifting your weight side to side, where the motorcycle shifts the opposite direction.

Think of countersteering as temporarily unbalancing the bike to cause it to lean. The idea is to use the centrifugal force from a short turn in the opposite direction to create the lean necessary to balance the turn. The centrifugal force in turn depends on a) how fast you're going (faster = more force), b) the radius of the turn (tighter = more force), and c) the mass of the bike+rider (not important for this discussion). The size of the centrifugal forces determines how fast you lean over.

What this basically implies is that at very low speeds, it's a little harder to generate a lean from countersteering: because your speed is low, you need a tighter radius to get the same centrifugal force. This is easy to see in practice -- as you go very slowly, say at a stoplight, you need more dramatic steering motions to stay in balance.

Another take on the same idea is that you have slightly less control from countersteering at low speeds, and therefore body positioning gives you relatively more control compared to countersteering at these speeds. That's why counter-weighting is important to making low speed maneuvers like U-Turns.

Here's a video demonstrating most of this:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Was that a Ninjette ?

[miss_syn]

don't think about it too hard. it will break your head.

And eventually you'll stop thinking about counter steering and it will be muscle memory.

[ninja250]

I learned to countersteer going down GMR with no hands. lol
Good times. Scary, but good times. Hung on the the huge GSXr tank.
Oh yeah I did it on a GSXR too without getting killed. Do I get bonus points?

[ninja250]

When the bike is leaning one way and wants to keep going that way, it's hard as hell to lean the other direction and turn it with no hands.. which is what you should be doing.
Very scary to learn. Your body weight controls everything. No weight on your bars ever.
bike drives itself where it wants to go in relation to your lean. It does not need handlebars accept for you to control gas and brakes and hold on but if you know how to ride it you can hold on anywhere.

the only time i countersteer is when going from one extreme lean angle to the other right away, as in a flip flop corner. In this case you might actually need to press on the bars quickly and precisely to get you over. Not very much though and it's still mostly about leaning the bike into the corner.

countersteering, in this sense (at speed in corners) just helps to initiate the lean much faster.
I'm barely even touching the handlebars while hauling through some nice twisties.
It more feels like I'm haulin butt leaning forward on a unicycle with no pedals only pegs.
I don't even recognize that there is a front end on the bike and it feels like I'm standing on the back wheel by it's bolts and leaning way forward while going through each corner.

Another time I may countersteer is if there is an object in the road on a twisty and I need to dodge it fast without interrupting my lean angle. It doesn't take much, just breathe on the handlebar and you'll zing right around the object.

To differentiate countersteer vs counterweight..

Counterweight would be what I do during a very slow U-turn. The steering isn't countering, rather it's stearing inward and turning as it should, but my weight counters to the outside of the bike to help balance at the low speed. In this manner, you can U-turn your bike in a very. very tight radius. This is counterweighting.

[LazinCajun]

This is wrong wrong wrong. You don't want weight on the bars yes, but the ONLY way to turn a motorcycle at speed is to turn the handlebars. If you think you're turning it with your weight, you're really subconsciously pushing the handlebars. See the Keith Code No BS bike.

Originally Posted by ninja250

When the bike is leaning one way and wants to keep going that way, it's hard as hell to lean the other direction and turn it with no hands.. which is what you should be doing.
Very scary to learn. Your body weight controls everything. No weight on your bars ever.
bike drives itself where it wants to go in relation to your lean. It does not need handlebars accept for you to control gas and brakes and hold on but if you know how to ride it you can hold on anywhere.

the only time i countersteer is when going from one extreme lean angle to the other right away, as in a flip flop corner. In this case you might actually need to press on the bars quickly and precisely to get you over. Not very much though and it's still mostly about leaning the bike into the corner.

countersteering, in this sense (at speed in corners) just helps to initiate the lean much faster.
I'm barely even touching the handlebars while hauling through some nice twisties.
It more feels like I'm haulin butt leaning forward on a unicycle with no pedals only pegs.
I don't even recognize that there is a front end on the bike and it feels like I'm standing on the back wheel by it's bolts and leaning way forward while going through each corner.

Another time I may countersteer is if there is an object in the road on a twisty and I need to dodge it fast without interrupting my lean angle. It doesn't take much, just breathe on the handlebar and you'll zing right around the object.

To differentiate countersteer vs counterweight..

Counterweight would be what I do during a very slow U-turn. The steering isn't countering, rather it's stearing inward and turning as it should, but my weight counters to the outside of the bike to help balance at the low speed. In this manner, you can U-turn your bike in a very. very tight radius. This is counterweighting.

[ninja250]

When I look at the bike, the handlebars are bolted stationary onto the bike. They don't turn the bike.
Which means you need to turn the bike with weight. Not by pushing the bars.

you use your legs as leverage on the tank and pegs.

the bars are there like that as a faux hand position, instead of making the rider use no hands with no throttle or brakes.

I may not be coming across correctly, but I very well understand the concept of that bike with the fixed handlebars. That bike is trying to teach you that you DO NOT need to turn the bars to corner a motorcycle. You use your weight. Your weight turns the bars.

Try riding that thing and seeing just how scary it is. I practice this myself, but I just use no hands while going down hill so I don't need throttle. I hang on to the sides of the tank with my hands, slow down a bit and go around turns with no hands, using only my weight.

It's very scary. Teaches you a ton very quick.

IMO, that is proper positioning, not countersteering.

[LazinCajun]

If you're talking about the No-BS bike, then I think you missed the point. The point of that setup isn't to show you how to steer with weight, it's to show you that it's impossible to have any control steering only with weight.

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninja250

the bars are there like that as a faux hand position, instead of making the rider use no hands with no throttle or brakes.

The Keith Code bike was built to disprove those who discount the reality of countersteering. When using the bars that are fixed to the bike with the duplicate throttle and brake cables, the rider is asked to try and ride the bike like normal, but without being able to countersteer (as the bars are fixed). Body weight is the only thing that can change direction. What people find out very quickly is that it only works at very, very gentle speeds, and very, very gentle turns. When the speeds ramp up to anything approaching normal or faster, it becomes immediately clear that countersteering is not just a nice to have, it's a requirement to initiate the turn.

[ninja250]

I definitely don't discount the reality of countersteering, but having gone down GMR with no hands, I know it works without it. I also know you corner faster you will need it, as stated above.

It may not be track speeds back there on tight gmr so I may be limited.. and I did slow a bit.
surely I was at least the legal 25mph. hehe

You guys would be surprised what you can do on one of those things!
Very scary but you have to command it.

[LazinCajun]

No hands? You weren't touching the bars at all? So no clutch, throttle, or brakes either?

I'm guessing that's not what you mean, so you were probably unconsciously putting pressure on the bars.

[ninja250]

No.
I was holding on to the sides of the tank. Going fairly slow for a motorcycle I will say that. Downhill, so I did not need throttle. You can turn it around the corners without countersteering.
I guess the point Alex makes to me and perhaps this thread title is at what point do you need to countersteer.

I know for sure if I'm coming off a corner fast into another opposite side corner, I will flick the bars some to get it over fast.

I'm not sure I guess how it works at low speed..

But you can go without to a certain extent, being very careful because it's very creepy to lean the bike one way while it's already leaned another without hands on the bars.
It's huge mind over matter thing. Your instinct will be to jump off instead of to use your weight and position on the bike to your advantage. I find it to be good training for body positioning.
It can tell me where my body really should be during a given corner to take my hands on and off, as I feel my weigh in the center of gravity. That's how you know your body is in the right place, if you are balanced on the bike with no hands while cornering. This is how you stick your hand out and drag hands on the ground while dragging knee, you have to be balanced without your hands. Your body has to be in just the right place.

I don't know if I can explain that one properly. Probably something not useful I taught myself.

[Lou]

Great link Trey! Nice to see it explained and tested like that.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by ninja250

No.
I was holding on to the sides of the tank. Going fairly slow for a motorcycle I will say that. Downhill, so I did not need throttle. You can turn it around the corners without countersteering.
I guess the point Alex makes to me and perhaps this thread title is at what point do you need to countersteer.

I know for sure if I'm coming off a corner fast into another opposite side corner, I will flick the bars some to get it over fast.

I'm not sure I guess how it works at low speed..

But you can go without to a certain extent, being very careful because it's very creepy to lean the bike one way while it's already leaned another without hands on the bars.
It's huge mind over matter thing. Your instinct will be to jump off instead of to use your weight and position on the bike to your advantage. I find it to be good training for body positioning.
It can tell me where my body really should be during a given corner to take my hands on and off, as I feel my weigh in the center of gravity. That's how you know your body is in the right place, if you are balanced on the bike with no hands while cornering. This is how you stick your hand out and drag hands on the ground while dragging knee, you have to be balanced without your hands. Your body has to be in just the right place.

I don't know if I can explain that one properly. Probably something not useful I taught myself.

Sorry ninja250 but even with NO hands on the bars, you still countersteer.

From the twist of the wrist II DVD

Link to original page on YouTube.

There is just no known way to beat the physics involved.

[Skippii]

I would highly recommend countersteering anytime you want to change direction while going over 5 mph.

The only other alternative is going in a straight line and crashing, and I highly recommend not doing that.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Skippii

The only other alternative is going in a straight line and crashing, and I highly recommend not doing that.

LOL!

[ninja250]

Wow I mst be seriously miss-understood.

Yes, the bars still turn if you don't have your hands on them! The bars will still counter steer without your hands if you use your weight. It has to, to get through the corner. That's a given.

I was out today riding very well no hands going at a good pace through some nice corners without issues?!

I even found the ninja easy to flick around with no hands, more so than the gsxr..
I can for sure do GMR just as I did before no hands. The bike does what it wants while my position steers it.

The exception to this is super low speed and highway riding. I had to use small inputs then.

the guys in that video are going full track speed. That's different than going down no handed GMR I'd suppose.

[ninja250]

If you hold your bike by the back seat and lean it back and fourth the handlebars turn left and right with the lean.

That's what I mean.

At say about 45mph you can crank the ninja well into a turn no problem without hands countersteering you. Yes, the bike has to so you stay on but I'm talking about hand input.

If I can do it no hands (lifting them an inch above the bars) I don't know what the guy in the videos problem is. He must be going well over GMR speed like I do it. I think at the track you want to use your hands? haha

I want to try riding the yellow double handlebar bike. UP GMR with that nice throttle rig it has.

Also it looks like they are using a larger bike than a ninja for the double handlebars.
You guys tend to compare larger bikes to the ninja a lot in this respect.
they are much alike, but the ninja turns on a dime, nowhere near as hard as a larger bike like he is trying to yank all over the track in that video by the stationary bars. I'm starting to wonder what speed that was when I saw him do that, I'm thinkin over 80mph. More than double the speeds I claim it's possible.

they say he is doing massive weight shifts but I beg to differ. He's barely yanking on the bike.

You guys go too far with the countersteering in a corner and you're not going to be happy with the result. That video makes it seam as though you don't have to lean and you need to jerk yourself into every corner with the bars.
Keep in mind they are showing you this two up, and with huge harleys.
The ninja falls into corners so easy you don't even need your hands.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Sorry ninja250 but even with NO hands on the bars, you still countersteer.

There is just no known way to beat the physics involved.

Sure there is.
You guys just have to see outside of the box. Seriously.
Get your own style that works.
Read some, and ride a hell of a lot more.

Here's how you turn a bike with ZERO countersteering.
ONLY counterbalance.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Maybe Misti can add something here, as I would guess shes either ridden the no-BS bike or has seen it ridden first hand. I think at lower speeds you can lean the bike with your body, possible with footpeg weighting, and that will get the bars countersteering and falling into the turn. However, at higher speeds I could see this going bad quickly.

[ninja250]

FTW (ok I'm done lol)

Link to original page on YouTube.

I see the pros on TV go sideways with one wheel at high speeds sometimes.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Sure there is.
You guys just have to see outside of the box. Seriously.
Get your own style that works.
Read some, and ride a hell of a lot more.

There truly aren't multiple styles here. It's not the open-minded vs. the close-minded. Riding at 25 mph with hands off and saying that because you can do that countersteering is optional, isn't thinking out of the box. It's misrepresenting how to ride a motorcycle. It's not teaching a new rider anything interesting or helpful. It's merely spreading the confusion that at some level when I see these threads I wonder if you still harbor. The Keith Code piece is spot-on here, and it articulates the topic better than anyone else has yet attempted in this thread.

Originally Posted by ninja250

Here's how you turn a bike with ZERO countersteering.
ONLY counterbalance.

At 5 mph. At speeds where adjusting the weight of the bike makes all the difference. A more on target video would be any one with a standup wheelie traveling at 30+ mph or more, and demonstrating how only the most minor of steering corrections can be made by balance alone.

[csmith12]

Different physics on a wheelie (single wheeled vehicle) but alas, it seems to be way off course to helping the OP and questions presented. We must be misunderstanding each other or I am completely missing what your doing.

[Cuongism]

I'm sorry KC, but not sure how that applies to real life daily scenarios. Remember that you're giving advice to someone who is just starting out on a bike and has a total of two posts...

[Skippii]

I was going to post something about an article by Keith Code, but I have a feeling that the video that's blocked at work probably covers Code's bike.

I won't comment any more until I get home and watch the video, but so far you guys seem like a more intelligent bunch than some people I've met who say "I don't understand anything about the theory of gyroscopes or vector multiplication, so I can't explain why the laws of physics don't apply to my motorcycle, but you'll just have to trust me."

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

I'm sorry KC, but not sure how that applies to real life daily scenarios. Remember that you're giving advice to someone who is just starting out on a bike and has a total of two posts...

+1. Well said lol

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by Alex

There truly aren't multiple styles here. It's not the open-minded vs. the close-minded. Riding at 25 mph with hands off and saying that because you can do that countersteering is optional, isn't thinking out of the box. It's misrepresenting how to ride a motorcycle. It's not teaching a new rider anything interesting or helpful. It's merely spreading the confusion that at some level when I see these threads I wonder if you still harbor. The Keith Code piece is spot-on here, and it articulates the topic better than anyone else has yet attempted in this thread.



At 5 mph. At speeds where adjusting the weight of the bike makes all the difference. A more on target video would be any one with a standup wheelie traveling at 30+ mph or more, and demonstrating how only the most minor of steering corrections can be made by balance alone.

I understand Alex,
But I'm telling you I did it fine at 45 today and can go higher on Ninjette.
I understand it's not a beginner thing. It may not teach anyone anything.
But my point is I can crank the ninja through a turn without actually steering anything. My lean angle makes the bike want to steer, I didn't push the bars.
I can also do it at a fair speed feeling comfortable and not out of my range.

I don't mean to spread confusion, only to open up peoples eyes to other perspectives besides Keith Codes'. Everyone knows I don't know anything but I have been riding since 2005 and I'm alive and I've had a few 600's in the canyons and I do things normal riders wouldn't even think about like riding around without my hands to feel what it's like. Outside the box.

I'm just trying to add my input, but perhaps this is the wrong place and time.

[Xoulrath]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I'm just trying to add my input, but perhaps this is the wrong place and time.

For a new rider, I would have to agree, this is the wrong place and time. Your "advice" could get someone injured or killed.

I do think it's funny how you basically stated in one of your posts that while you weren't counter-steering directly with your hands, you admitted that the bike was counter-steering as you used your body weight.

You MUST counter-steer a motorcycle to get it to turn. We can debate direct-steer vs. counter-steer at speeds less than 10-15 mph in another thread. A new rider needs to know two things more than any other:
1) Counter-steer, using hand inputs on the bar;
2) Look where you want to go.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by miss_syn

don't think about it too hard. it will break your head.

And eventually you'll stop thinking about counter steering and it will be muscle memory.

If you spaz over it you will end up steering right into the path of a dump truck. I know, because that's what I did. Countersteering is a fact of bike physics. Now that you know that, forget it.

There is some credibility to those that say just lean into the turn. Here's why. Sit on your bike with both hands on the handlebars and the steering unlocked. Keep your elbows straight. Now lean over to one side. Watch what happens to the bars.

Congratulations! You've just countersteered.


And you didn't have to think about it.

Once you get more experience, you can practice steering without leaning and leaning with amplified countersteering, but for now, just lean.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

but for now, just lean.

i respectfully disagree. it's my opinion that being fully aware of how you point your front tire makes you more in tune with what your bike is going to do when you turn. that subtle little movement outward before the bike leans in, the pull in-ward when you're picking the bike up, these are very important things when trying to for example quickly avoid an object in the road. it's my opinion that you shouldn't bother leaning at first, just counter-steer with a straight up and down body without putting weight on the bars, then once you're good enough at that to do it comfortably start adding leaning in. weight on the bars + leaning will indeed make you countersteer. but weight on the bars will also make you crash.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i respectfully disagree. it's my opinion that being fully aware of how you point your front tire makes you more in tune with what your bike is going to do when you turn. that subtle little movement outward before the bike leans in, the pull in-ward when you're picking the bike up, these are very important things when trying to for example quickly avoid an object in the road. it's my opinion that you shouldn't bother leaning at first, just counter-steer with a straight up and down body without putting weight on the bars, then once you're good enough at that to do it comfortably start adding leaning in. weight on the bars + leaning will indeed make you countersteer. but weight on the bars will also make you crash.

Hmmm, well I don't really disagree with any of that, but I do feel there is a correct time to learn things. I say, Learn to ride safe before you learn to do stunting. Anyone who puts enough time on the bike will eventually learn all the subtleties about countersteering, but for new riders, keep it simple.

I wasn't kidding when I said that spazzing over countersteering sent me into the path of a dump truck. That really happened and is why I don't like to see other people spaz over it.

[headshrink]

Well, I don't have much more to add from a technical standpoint, but I think you will find that the point you transition from counter-steering to point-and-shoot steering will be intuitive.... possibly from day one. For me it seems like it happens from my bodies instinctive response to balance the bike. When I did my MSF, AFTER we did two excesses, the instructors said, "oh BTW, you may not know this, but on exercise A you were all counter-steering, but in exercise B none of you were."

[Clearlynotstefan]

Seriously, Doubters, Read the entire thing
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php
Second, without your hands on the bars, when you lean, the bars will countersteer themselves. This is fact

Now for MY understanding of the relationship between counter steering and leaning. Keep in mind, I'm not a physics major here.
Countersteering is always used to turn a bike, as a bike with a fixed wheel can not effectively be turned. Leaning is a result (or simultaneous action) designed to compensate for the G forces pulling you to the outside as a result of the change of direction due to countersteering. This is why I like riding in a nutshell. Cars are 2 dimensional vehicles, they have control over the x and y axis. Bikes have control of the x,y, and Z axis (lean, pitch, yaw, what have you). We can turn at faster speeds then the average car because we have the ability to manipulate the z axis to counteract the effect on the x axis (outward force from our turn). Just my .02 on the issue


To the OP or any new rider. Ride safe and observe the forces at play when you countersteer (and thus lean). The more confident you feel in countersteering, the faster you will be able to initiate a swerve etc. Even as a beginner, I would still read the keith code article, the information is good to have. Just remember to be safe out there, and it WILL come naturally!