Downshifting & Throttle Blipping

[csmith12]

means you pulled the brake lever harder

in general the major problems are;
nosedive = brake pressure not evenly applied
surge forward = to much throttle (not normally a problem on a 250 but easy to do on bigger bike)

[akshay11]

Nose dive also can happen from downshifting without blipping and letting out the clutch faster. That was the main issue I had til I started blipping

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by akshay11

Nose dive also can happen from downshifting without blipping and letting out the clutch faster. That was the main issue I had til I started blipping

indeed, but i was responding to the previous post where he is working on the technique while applying front brake.

[sLick415]

If coming to a complete stop (a stop sign) with no one behind you, should we still rev match while downshifting? Or can we just clutch in and downshift all the way to 1st?

Also, when braking while downshifting + rev match, do we do that with just the front brake? Or both?

[Motofool]

In both cases, you can do either way.

In my case, I prefer having the proper gear connected for the speed of the bike, so I do it step by step while slowing down (quickly or slowly).

Since I value my transmission, I blip to match rev's for every downshift.

I only use front brake, so I brake simultaneously with any blip.

Caveat: I am old fashion and am not always correct.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Motofool

In my case, I prefer having the proper gear connected for the speed of the bike, so I do it step by step while slowing down (quickly or slowly).

Since I value my transmission, I blip to match rev's for every downshift.

I only use front brake, so I brake simultaneously with any blip.

^^ same here, only gear I don't blip for is 1st. I ride 2nd until I get down to about 2,000 rpm, then I just click to 1st as I stop. That's the same time that I transition off of the front brake and go rear-only. It makes for nice smooth stops once you figure out the dance

[alex.s]

a couple points... firstly, there is never "nobody behind you" there is only "can't see someone behind you" second, when you do find out there is someone behind you, or beside you, or wherever they happen to turn up, having the bike in gear ready to apply power without the need to let the clutch out, rev match, do anything except apply throttle means you can do it faster which means you can react to problems faster which means you can keep yourself from hitting the thing that just jumped out in front of you or is about to hit the side of you. so with this second point in mind, thirdly; reducing the time between being unable to apply power/make rapid changes that might be needed means reducing the time that you are making yourself vulnerable. so doing things like blipping to rev match makes smooth gear changes quicker. which means you are vulnerable for less time.


ride safe

[csmith12]

@sLick415 - To add to what alex posted. What do you do when you are coming to a intersection with a red light and pull in the clutch and downshift to first? Then the light turns green while you are still in motion. How do you quickly get back to the gear that you should be in?

While you are trying to get back in the proper gear, the cars behind you are coming....

See what I mean?

[sLick415]

Yeah I see what you guys mean. That's why I specified a stop sign.

But with the braking. When I read about rev matching, I don't see any mentions about the rear brake, only the front one. What are your thoughts on this?

[choneofakind]

I don't use the rear brake for anything but finese at low speeds.

The front brake is for slowing, the rear brake is for making smooth stops and parking lot maneuvers. I figure the engine braking is more than sufficient for slowing the rear wheel at speed.

[alex.s]

i dont use rear brake unless i'm on dirt

[csmith12]

Blipping has it's origins in racing and most of those riders only use the front brake. It was taught to me without rear brakes and I assume it's taught that way the majority of the time.

I find that adding rear brakes to the blip takes away more than it adds. However I have seen riders in front of me blip while dragging the rear brake. To each their own and as long as they get stopped safely, that is all I really care about.

[adouglas]

@alex.s… i agree with the wisdom of being in gear but that's not what Slick asked. He wants to know if we should rev-match all the way down into first, not whether we should be in gear at the stop.

Personally I don't. I do try to rev match every downshift (and engine brake) while hauling down from speed, but by the time you're down to the 2->1 shift there's little point.

[csmith12]

lol, who tries to rev match 1st?

[alex.s]

i actually addressed that in my message. also, i rev match first

[rojoracing53]

I find rev matching only really matters at high RPMs and in the lower range just being smooth with the clutch is good. I only blip the throttle when going faster then I should in the streets and on a race track. All other times I just click the shifer and release the clutch smoothly like one should apply front brake pressure. No extra stress needed.

If you suck with being smooth with the clutch and end up just dropping it then you don't need rev matching. You need to learn how to use the clutch or go buy a slipper clutch, they were invented for you

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

I only blip the throttle when going faster then I should in the streets and on a race track.

so... always?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by csmith12

lol, who tries to rev match 1st?

I do

[csmith12]

Well... rock on then.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

If you suck with being smooth with the clutch and end up just dropping it then you don't need rev matching. You need to learn how to use the clutch or go buy a slipper clutch, they were invented for you

I know how to be smooth doing both ways. I just like the braaprrrrrmmmm braaaprrrmmmm noises that I can make when I blip. So much better than rrrRRMMMMMMMM rrrrrRRRRMmmMMMMM when you let out the clutch slowly.

Let's be honest, that's a big factor

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I know how to be smooth doing both ways. I just like the braaprrrrrmmmm braaaprrrmmmm noises that I can make when I blip. So much better than rrrRRMMMMMMMM rrrrrRRRRMmmMMMMM when you let out the clutch slowly.

Let's be honest, that's a big factor

True dat

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I do

+1
just in case i need to take off from a roll.

i have a 15 tooth front sprocket though.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by sLick415

.........But with the braking. When I read about rev matching, I don't see any mentions about the rear brake, only the front one. What are your thoughts on this?

Post #50 summarizes it very well.

[sLick415]

Good to know. Im normally too lazy to use my rear brake

[Havok]

Throttle bliping is an antiquated technique that came about out of necessity due to having only 4 gears that were very spread out. Modern 6 speed gear boxes are so close together speed wise that its not really needed if you are stopping.

The only time I see the need is if I am cruising in a high gear at low ro ms and want to down shift to accelerate.

[sLick415]

Originally Posted by Havok

Throttle bliping is an antiquated technique that came about out of necessity due to having only 4 gears that were very spread out. Modern 6 speed gear boxes are so close together speed wise that its not really needed if you are stopping.

The only time I see the need is if I am cruising in a high gear at low ro ms and want to down shift to accelerate.

You blip when you downshift to accelerate?

[Havok]

Originally Posted by sLick415

You blip when you downshift to accelerate?

Sort of, more on the 600 if i am in 6th gear and i want to accelerate and get into the power band ill give it gas as i click down and hold the throttle open.

as an example going 60mph in 5th gear i am at around 6k rpm, that speed is around 8k in 4th (arbitrary numbers i use the engine sound more then the tach) gas it pull the clutch in stay on the gas till i am at the revs for the lower gear let the clutch out while staying on the gas. I am now in the meat of the power band and accelerated the entire time. Rev matching but i don't let the throttle go. Its not so much a blip as its rev matching. Though not entirly the safest, if you let the clutch out to fast at too low revs your back end will chatter pretty bad and if you are on a SS and take the revs up to high and dump the clutch you will whellie. Dont ask me how i know

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by sLick415

You blip when you downshift to accelerate?

I do this too, especially in the wet and especially on the R6.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by sLick415

You blip when you downshift to accelerate?

If you don't, the rear wheel will be rotating too fast respect to the engine when you downshift and clutch-out, producing a rear wheel braking effect.

You want to speed up quickly, no reason to brake at that moment.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[sLick415]

But to blip the throttle is to gas it for a quick second. You dont do that when youre downshifting to accelerate do you? I just stay on the gas...

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by sLick415

But to blip the throttle is to gas it for a quick second. You dont do that when youre downshifting to accelerate do you? I just stay on the gas...

Depends on how hard you are accelerating but yes, you do.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by sLick415

You blip when you downshift to accelerate?

Sorry I think everyone is misunderstanding your question. No you don't accelerate the BIKE when you blip the throttle, you accelerate the motor or RPMs. The reason the Bike shouldn't be accelerating is because when you give that quick twist of the throttle your clutch is ether pulled or the blip of the throttle is small enough that all your doing is creating a momentary neutrality within the gear box to reduce friction. This momentary neutrality is the same theory used to up shift without the clutch.

You can blip the throttle with or without the clutch it just depends on your preference.

[dfox]

all this talk about learning to blip and downshift while braking seems to beg for the response...

this is really two steps...

learn to blip-and-downshift-without-braking properly before you even think about adding in the front brake.

once you've mastered that, and can blip the throttle without thinking about it, add in the front brake. Thinking about blipping while maintaining proper braking force is difficult. Make it so they're both sub-conscious, then integrate the two. If you start thinking about too many things while in a situation on the road where you need to stop, you're going to make mistakes. You can still ride very safely on the road without engaging the clutch at every downshift for every stop. I live in the city. I frequently stop. I don't engage my clutch at every downshift, if I did, I'd probably have no clutch left. Regardless of how good you get at it, you're not going to get it perfect every time. Just go down through the gears slowly, as if you were actually engaging the clutch, just no need to blip and engage. That way you're still ready to blip and accelerate when needed.

[RJprod]

quick question. 2 weeks into my riding, I noticed I was constantly locking the rear tire up whenever I downshift. I looked at videos and read many articles on how to avoid that. I started blipping the throttle, or I think I am. can someone tell me if I'm doing it wrong? before i tell you my technique, let me tell u how the bike react when I do it. for example, if I'm doing 50 in third gear and want to go down to second after downshifting and blipping I notice the RPM goes up and Still I stay at the same speed, but the rear tire doesn't skid anymore.
Here: Close the throttle while pulling the clutch, let the RPM get just under 5000, downshift, open the throttle about half way and let go off the clutch.. bam!! Rpm shoots up till stay in the same speed limit, but tire doesn't skid... AM i doing it wrong?

[Alex]

Be more smooth when letting the clutch lever back out. Never just let go of it quickly. If it's released smoothly, blipping is more optional than necessary, as the engine will match road speed as the clutch engages. Blipping to get the engine revs close to road speed makes it easier to smoothly engage the clutch, and allows you to do it quicker with experience.

[antiant]

This may be of help... http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...=blip+throttle. There was a recent discussion on it.

[Alex]

Good fine. /merged

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by RJprod

quick question. 2 weeks into my riding, I noticed I was constantly locking the rear tire up whenever I downshift. I looked at videos and read many articles on how to avoid that. I started blipping the throttle, or I think I am. can someone tell me if I'm doing it wrong? ..........

Robenson,

The trick is coordinating rpms' of the engine and rpms' of the rear tire at the very moment of engagement of those two sections of the transmission system.

Just blipping the throttle not always achieves that coordination: you need to give some gas, or the engine will rapidly slowdown all the way to idle rpms'.

If the engine is at idle and the rear tire is rotating relatively too fast to match that, your bike actually feels like it jerks and considerably slows down due to engine breaking when you downshift.

In that case, the inertia of the bike forces the engine to suddenly speed up up to the rpm's that correspond with the rotational speed of the rear tire; thing that you should have done via throttle (crack opened) during the downshift.

Like for many other cases, by locking the rear tire up whenever you downshift, the bike is simply trying to compensate for you piloting error.

Keep practicing, you are doing great !!!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[blink]

All it is, is practice.
I do find it easier while doing hard and quick blipping and braking

[NDspd]

I blip downshift all the time, whether in traffic or in the twisties. Sometimes I will use the clutch if I'm leisurely coming up to a light.

I found there to be a big difference in how the who process works between different bikes. I won't go into detail, but I found it easier to blip shift on my SV650, and smoother changes on my Speed3.