Taking apart transmission, need an advice

[NinjaVAN]

My problem is the second gear wont shift by any means without spinning the back wheel for a while.

My friend suggested it was the shift drum problem (bike was down on the left side) and my research confirms this version.

So in order to get to the drum and gears I need to take the tranny apart but I have no Idea if I need to take apart top end (remove head/cylinder) first. Or the bottom end removal would be enough.


Please help

[csmith12]

Welcome Ivan!

There are few members that have some tranny experience. Hopefully they will jump in here.

[BlownWideOpen]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Welcome Ivan!

There are few members that have some tranny experience. Hopefully they will jump in here.

Were they pitching or catching?

Can't offer any help on the subject lol

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by NinjaVAN

My problem is the second gear wont shift by any means without spinning the back wheel for a while.

My friend suggested it was the shift drum problem (bike was down on the left side) and my research confirms this version.

So in order to get to the drum and gears I need to take the tranny apart but I have no Idea if I need to take apart top end (remove head/cylinder) first. Or the bottom end removal would be enough.


Please help

this is by design. there is nothing wrong here. it's called a kawi positive neutral finder. there are 3 troughs with 3 ball bearings that keep the gear from sliding into 2nd if the shaft isn't spinning.

[kxpower?]

Originally Posted by BlownWideOpen

Were they pitching or catching?

Can't offer any help on the subject lol

[NinjaVAN]

Originally Posted by alex.s

this is by design. there is nothing wrong here. it's called a kawi positive neutral finder. there are 3 troughs with 3 ball bearings that keep the gear from sliding into 2nd if the shaft isn't spinning.

I would buy you a year subscription for a daily Heineken beer delivery if that was true!!!

But that's not really the matter. The problem is I couldn't shift it rolling, staying steal or rolling the wheel (and the bike itself) back'n'forth... NO GO by any prays, ritual songs or magic whispers.

The only time we managed to shift it was when spinning the drum directly with an alien wrench after the clutch was taken out. And again. If it was "positive neutral finder" (PNF) then it would require wheel spinning each time before shifting to the second from neutral. In my case it shifts just if you catch a momentum and do not spin the wheel or motor shaft. And if you move it just a millimeter off that position - you start over again, not shifting.


I really need to get to the transmission's "inner world" to see if all guys are doing fine there.


So ho knows if I need to take off the cilinder head to get to transmission or not?

Here is the shop manual I found but it is not clear enough for me....

http://www.manfaatplus.com/wp-conten...ice_Manual.pdf

Can anyone help?

[alex.s]

there are two ways to access the transmission, the easiest does not give you full access-- through the clutch cover. remove the clutch and you'll have access to the side of the shift drum as well as the external linkage arms that spin the hub. it sounds like this might be your issue.

alternatively the other option is splitting the crank case to access the transmission.

see this video of mine;

Link to original page on YouTube.

[NinjaVAN]

Originally Posted by alex.s

there are two ways to access the transmission, the easiest does not give you full access-- through the clutch cover. remove the clutch and you'll have access to the side of the shift drum as well as the external linkage arms that spin the hub. it sounds like this might be your issue.

alternatively the other option is splitting the crank case to access the transmission.

see this video of mine;

Thanks for the video!!!

But it is still not it. I took off the whole clutch and could see the fork that you were trying to put back. My fork is OK, reacts properly on every single rod spin and grabs the shift drum the way it suppose to. But I couldn't spin the drum even with the alien wrench, so the problem is definitely inside.

[alex.s]

i'm sorry to say it sounds like a broken dog or a bent fork. if there was any metal flake in the oil i would go with broken dog. if not i would think bent fork or a bent shaft.

you can get complete 250 transmissions for around $100 on ebay. if the case isn't damaged you can swap the whole thing in. do a double check on the ball-bearings that hold the shafts, they kinda suck.

[NinjaVAN]

Thank for the hint! The oil was not suspicious at all... just regular clutch dust. And I still need to get inside... HOW?

[alex.s]

to split it you will have to drop the engine out, and split the case. there are about 20 or so bolts on each side of the case (top and bottom) as well as bolts hidden behind covers like behind the oil filter itself as well as things like the oil transfer lines from bottom to top (the copper line behind the clutch) it's kinda a pain in the ass on the pregen and newgen 250s. the 300 has a 4-piece case that has a real oil pan that you can remove that makes getting to the inners extremely easy. unfortunately just not on the 250s.

[NinjaVAN]

Thanks!!!
But is it OK to split just the bottom part? Are there any bolts that are hidden under the cylinder head? any long ones going from the top-end right to the low-end?

[NinjaVAN]

Here is to make it clear:

I need to get into transmission. In order to get there I need to take bottom case apart (split the case). In KW manual

http://www.manfaatplus.com/wp-conten...ice_Manual.pdf

in section #9 Crankshaft/Transmission it says remove head/ cylinder. But this section is Crankshaft/Transmission. There is no separate Transmission section in the manual.

As far as I can see bolts are mostly on the bottom and some on top of the case. I can't see "hidden" bolts under cylinder or whatever. But sometimes you simply can't do it because......

Can somebody please confirm if it is possible to split the case without removing head/cylinder. I do understand I will need to give some slack to chain tentioner and check timing marks after.

The bike has very low mileage (but was dropped). There is no reason to open top end. If I have no choice I will take it all apart but I will need all gaskets etc. I just don't want to start this job and get stuck because I don't have gaskets for top end.

Please somebody help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alex.s]

not much experience with the pregen but i dont think you need to remove the head to get the bottom off. @Racer x or maybe @choneofakind should be able to tell you if you need to remove the head on the pregen to split the case.

[choneofakind]

Honestly have no idea. Luckily, I've not had to have the bottom end apart.

Yet.

[baxtc1]

No need to remove cylinder head or cylinder. No need to remove alternator rotor. There are a couple of 6mm bolts on top of crankcase (1 under starter motor), the rest are on the bottom. As mentioned earlier, there is one behind tge oil filter. Be sure to lay the bolts out in their correct position.
The manual should be good from here.
If I remember correctly, I think there was an error in the manual with regard to a bolt location or torque or something, can't remember now what it was.

[NinjaVAN]

Originally Posted by baxtc1

No need to remove cylinder head or cylinder. No need to remove alternator rotor. There are a couple of 6mm bolts on top of crankcase (1 under starter motor), the rest are on the bottom. As mentioned earlier, there is one behind tge oil filter. Be sure to lay the bolts out in their correct position.
The manual should be good from here.
If I remember correctly, I think there was an error in the manual with regard to a bolt location or torque or something, can't remember now what it was.

Thanks a lot . This is what I was looking for.

It is a good idea to have manual but in many cases you can get things done much easier..... just like Subaru engine try to follow manual from a to z and you will get grey hair before you even take it apart.


I will keep you updated. I really want to know what happened to my transmission.

[alex.s]

remember you need a clutch hub vice grip and impact gun to remove the clutch hub in order to get to the oil transfer lines in order to be able to split the case.

[NinjaVAN]

Thanks Alex.s!
As I wrote before I removed the clutch already. Will work on the case splitting ASAP and will try to make a video to show how it goes.

Thank you!

[NinjaVAN]

SOLVED

So the engine splits easily just without all bolts you can see from outside. Ho bolt is hiding under the cylinder head. Couldn't make the video unfortunately.

[alex.s]

so what was the issue? bent fork?