Police pull over biker to confiscate camera to use against others; makes up charge

[CZroe]

Link to original page on YouTube.

I haven't seen this being discussed yet.

This is raw video. Relevant jump points are in the YouTube page's description, but here are the direct links:
"3:28 Initial interaction"
"6:31 Arrest"
"7:59 Final interaction"

I see a lot of assumption on other forums discussing this. Number one is the assumption that he knew the other riders just because he was riding with them. This biker does not know the other riders and there were HUNDREDS of them. Memorial Day is a well known day for people to go riding due to being off work with typically good weather. It was particularly well known after many riders misbehaved the previous year and shut down a freeway. It's like senior skip day without the inherent rule-breaking. Better yet, it's organized like strangers lining up for a movie premier. You might know one or two of tens or hundreds of people.

Even though the cop says that he pulled the biker over for no other reason, he eventually arrests him on a charge of "obstructed plate." Now, it doesn't sound like an arrestable offense, but I know that many jurisdictions have more strict laws meant to combat criminals with devices like plate flippers and it may be allowable here. Even so, the cop later reports that it was the reason for the initial stop, which is an absolute lie. Furthermore, the plate was not actually obstructed. Undertail-mounted plates are often mounted much lower and farther forward such that the tire can block the plate at certain angles or when the suspension compresses. I've seen people get tickets for that, but never arrested. This guy's plate was simply mounted at an extreme angle (almost flush).

[Jinx]

wow thats nuts. It looks like he expected the guy to just give up the camera and when he refused the cop didnt know what to do and got aggressive. Shoving the guy down on the hood and then slamming the door on him like that was ridiculous. I really hope that deputy lost his job. The stupid smirk on the second cops face made me want to reach through my computer and knock his teeth out.

[Scattcatt]

Wooooow, I felt real, legitimate anger watching that video. I feel that police officer was way out of line.

[Avenged7Fold]

A part of me always wishes it happened to me when I see videos like this. But only when I'm not speeding or anything And I'd have to have a gopro or something on or noone would believe me

[Stingray1000]

Holy SH**!!!!

[Vergil]

It looks like he slammed the door on a part of the guy. If an officer of the law treated me this way, I would spend every chance I could fighting it.

[LizFisher7]

That was WRONG!

[massacremasses]

there is a dash cam video of the cops chasing these guys. Its a good video to watch as well because it kind of gives you the big picture. What happens here isnt ok but the other video gives you some context.

[lgk]

i think it was handled wrong on both ends.
the cop was too aggressive with a non crime and was a dick.
the guy did not use his time wisely, and talked too much.

just call your lawyer, and remain cool.
after all you didn't do anything wrong.

karma has a funny way about dealing with douche bags.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

there is a dash cam video of the cops chasing these guys. Its a good video to watch as well because it kind of gives you the big picture. What happens here isnt ok but the other video gives you some context.

Had nothing to do with the rider they pulled over though. That's like holding him accountable for what the other riders did exactly one year earlier. Legally, it's no different than pulling me over if I rode through tomorrow just because some other bikers broke the law on Memorial Day.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Had nothing to do with the rider they pulled over though. That's like holding him accountable for what the other riders did exactly one year earlier. Legally, it's no different than pulling me over if I rode through tomorrow just because some other bikers broke the law on Memorial Day.

he was riding with them.

I never said how they treated him was ok. Just giving context. If you dont want to acknowledge multiple sides of the story so be it.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

he was riding with them.

I never said how they treated him was ok. Just giving context. If you dont want to acknowledge multiple sides of the story so be it.

Actually, YOU are refusing to acknowledge it. He was riding with HUNDREDS of riders. That particular bubble of sportbikes was 50-100 bikes. He had nothing to do with them personally except agreeing that it was a good time to go for a ride. He didn't even fall in line with their speed. It's every bit as relevant to him riding "with them" as it is to me riding through there tomorrow.

If you are in your cage and someone you don't know on the road does something illegal, is it OK to pull you over because your were driving "with" that person, like every other car, truck, van, tractor, and bike?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Actually, YOU are refusing to acknowledge it. He was riding with HUNDREDS of riders. He had nothing to do with them except agreeing that it was a good time to go for a ride.

What am I refusing to acknowledge?

That the cops were out of line? (read my first post)


Im not making excuses for them, there really isnt any. However I was giving context.

I dont ride with stupid assholes, perhaps he wont either now.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

What am I refusing to acknowledge?

That the cops were out of line? (read my first post)


Im not making excuses for them, there really isnt any. However I was giving context.

I dont ride with stupid assholes, perhaps he wont either now.

You STILL don't get it.

He does not ride with "them." He rode AT THE SAME TIME as them. It was a public event. Not a "group." Everyone in the entire metro area knew that Memorial Day was bike day. It was exactly like pulling someone over who had nothing to do with another biker at Daytona Bike Week just because he had a camera among THOUSANDS of bikes. Got it? It's very likely that he did not know a single other biker on the road. Here in GA, I don't.

If I commuted to work that day (I did work Memorial Day) and I lived in Dallas and I wore my camera, that could have been me. This is WAY beyond "guilt by associateion" because there is no association. Get it now?

Need another example? Freaknik. Mardi Gras. Spring Break at Panama City Beach. A rock concert. Are you a troublemaker just because you attended the same event as other people and some broke the law?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CZroe

You STILL don't get it.

He does not ride with "them." He rode AT THE SAME TIME as them. It was a public event. Not a "group." Everyone in the entire metro area knew that Memorial Day was bike day. It was exactly like pulling someone over who had nothing to do with another biker at Daytona Bike Week just because he had a camera among THOUSANDS of bikes. Got it? It's very likely that he did not know a single other biker on the road. Here in GA, I don't.

Cool story bro.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Cool story bro.

Just admit you were wrong and quit acting like a jerk. Also, read my edit.

[Alex]

The problem is that whether the association was real or just perceived, it still led to a bunch of pissed off cops itching to ruin someone's day. His ticket was punched, and he was running an illegal plate. Cop was a mouth-breathing fool, but it was a a completely avoidable situation by the camera bike.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Just admit you were wrong and quit acting like a jerk. Also, read my edit.

Im not wrong about anything.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

The problem is that whether the association was real or just perceived, it still led to a bunch of pissed off cops itching to ruin someone's day. His ticket was punched, and he was running an illegal plate. Cop was a mouth-breathing fool, but it was a a completely avoidable situation by the camera bike.

Indeed. He could have offered the cop a copy of the video. Heck, the cop could have ASKED for a copy of it.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Im not wrong about anything.

*facepalm*

You said that the behavoir of unrelated people put it in perspective. That is RIDICULOUS and wrong. You said that he "rode with them" instead of riding at the same time as them. That is also wrong: He was no more with him than I am with you when we both coincidentally decide on our own to go to the same movie premier "for fun."

I am the LAST person to misrepresent a police encounter to make them look bad but I also avoid jumping to conclusions about them "riding together," especially when the whole story is right there.

[Alex]

I dunno. I tend to agree with Justin. The fact that there were dozens of nitwits on bikes in the immediate area, riding in the same event, provoking the police and generally ensuring that something like this (and likely many other unfilmed things like this) would be a foregone conclusion. Here is that dashcam video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Vergil]

Haha, have to wonder what they were handing the guy that rode up.

[Jiggles]

[DEVILS ADVOCATE] All of these bikers are a bunch of ****ing assholes. They closed down highways and block traffic so they can stunt. Emergency vehicles could have been stuck in there. People on the way to hospitals could have died so these pricks could stunt on an open highway. They are dipshit assholes, every last one of them and they need to be tracked down and punished.[/DEVILS ADVODATE]

Cop was a moron

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Alex

I dunno. I tend to agree with Justin. The fact that there were dozens of nitwits on bikes in the immediate area, riding in the same event, provoking the police and generally ensuring that something like this (and likely many other unfilmed things like this) would be a foregone conclusion. Here is that dashcam video:

Alex said it a little more eloquently. But he is better at that than I. Thanks for the link, I couldnt find it on the other forum I originally saw it on.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

I dunno. I tend to agree with Justin. The fact that there were dozens of nitwits on bikes in the immediate area, riding in the same event, provoking the police and generally ensuring that something like this (and likely many other unfilmed things like this) would be a foregone conclusion. Here is that dashcam video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

"The immediate area?!" They were covering the entire city! There was no trafficed area where there weren't dozens in the immediate area. that's exactly why I related it to Daytona Bike Week. As for the video, remember what I said about assumptions?

News 8 asked if the Dallas County Sheriff's Department was concerned about Westbrook's actions that day.

"We are looking into the conduct," said department spokeswoman Carmen Castro. "There has been no official investigation brought forward, but we are looking to determine if his conduct was appropriate for the situation at hand."

"Of course it's over a hundred bikers. Who are you going to pick?" Castro asked. "The ones that are going to help you a little bit more or had the video camera that would've assisted more."

When asked whether a warrant is required for the kind of traffic stop made by Deputy Westbrook, Castro offered no response.

The department released its own dashcam video Wednesday as proof that a group of bikers posed a public safety threat. However, the video did not come from the deputy who made the arrest, and at this point, it does not prove that the biker who was arrested was in any way involved with that group.

I wasn't the same officer and it may not have even been close to the same area. The event was THAT large.

Sorry. All this has been discussed to death even on the non-bike forums I go to. I should have saw these assumptions coming and addressed it in the OP so we don't have to go through all this all over again.

[Alex]

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're still missing the point, if the goal is to figure out how not to be that guy being dealt with harshly by a less than brilliant deputy.

A: Avoid riding in large groups when it's foreseeable that a good portion of them will be flaunting the law
B: If you do choose to do so, make sure your equipment is legal.

Running an illegal plate location, running illegal blinkers, and any of the other small but common mods to sportbikes are clear invitations to be pulled from the herd, and made to answer for the perceived larger offenses of others. Happens weekend after weekend here in northern california near the high-trafficked motorcycle hangouts. (I.E. - don't hang out at 4-corners mid-day on a Saturday or Sunday on a clearly illegal bike.)

For what it's worth, it's something that sometimes has to happen to you first before it sinks in, and I got the same ticket at that same high traffic area at the bottom of 9 when I had a moderately illegal plate mount on the ZX-10R. Not acting like a douche to the admittedly douchey cop kept it as a $25 fix-it ticket instead of an arrest, but the lesson stuck anyway. It's just easier to stay legal. (Or if you aren't going to, stay the heck out of the limelight. I.E. a biker event with thousands of bikes and dozens of law enforcement vehicles)

[PsHYk]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

Wooooow, I felt real, legitimate anger watching that video. I feel that police officer was way out of line.

yeah it wasnt me or someone i knew or anything and i was getting pretty mad and felt like punching that fat fuk...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

I hear what you're saying, but I think you're still missing the point, if the goal is to figure out how not to be that guy being dealt with harshly by a less than brilliant deputy.

A: Avoid riding in large groups when it's foreseeable that a good portion of them will be flaunting the law
B: If you do choose to do so, make sure your equipment is legal.

Running an illegal plate location, running illegal blinkers, and any of the other small but common mods to sportbikes are clear invitations to be pulled from the herd, and made to answer for the perceived larger offenses of others. Happens weekend after weekend here in northern california near the high-trafficked motorcycle hangouts. (I.E. - don't hang out at 4-corners mid-day on a Saturday or Sunday on a clearly illegal bike.)

For what it's worth, it's something that sometimes has to happen to you first before it sinks in, and I got the same ticket at that same high traffic area at the bottom of 9 when I had a moderately illegal plate mount on the ZX-10R. Not acting like a douche to the admittedly douchey cop kept it as a $25 fix-it ticket instead of an arrest, but the lesson stuck anyway. It's just easier to stay legal. (Or if you aren't going to, stay the heck out of the limelight. I.E. a biker event with thousands of bikes and dozens of law enforcement vehicles)

That goes back to the original outrageous situation happening in the video: the officer initially gave no other reason for the traffic stop than the camera. It was the ONLY stated reason, thus, even if the biker did have a legal plate he STILL would have pulled him over. The officer states plainly the reason for pulling him over and then, only after later informing him of the arrest does he give any other reason. Furthermore, the police report states that he was pulled over for the obstructed license plate, which is a direct conflict with the officer's own words.

[PsHYk]

Originally Posted by Alex

I dunno. I tend to agree with Justin. The fact that there were dozens of nitwits on bikes in the immediate area, riding in the same event, provoking the police and generally ensuring that something like this (and likely many other unfilmed things like this) would be a foregone conclusion. Here is that dashcam video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

just saw this and i didnt see the rider in there and im not trying to argue either way im just pointing out but my question is if he has the dashcam on his Patrol Car why does he want the guys helmet cam? i guess for more evidence but does he really need it? but that does go with someone elses comment about just asking for a copy instead of just saying "hey im taking your ****" thats not how **** works no matter who you are

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by PsHYk

just saw this and i didnt see the rider in there and im not trying to argue either way im just pointing out but my question is if he has the dashcam on his Patrol Car why does he want the guys helmet cam? i guess for more evidence but does he really need it? but that does go with someone elses comment about just asking for a copy instead of just saying "hey im taking your ****" thats not how **** works no matter who you are

As reported on the news, it was not the same officer and was released purely in an attempt to turn the public against all the bikers based on the actions of others. Note: I did not say "actions of the few," though it is the same issue.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by CZroe

As reported on the news, it was not the same officer and was released purely in an attempt to turn the public against all the bikers based on the actions of others. Note: I did not say "actions of the few," though it is the same issue.

Those bikers are jackasses, the public should be turned against them

[Klondike1020]

They cops should have blocked off the thru way and arrested every person in the dash cam video. The one who was sticking his breaks on the cops and taking contraband from the truck passengers should have been run off the road by the cop . He deserves to be street pizza

And the guy with the helmet cam should have shut up and shown some respect, if you happen to be walking down the side walk while a riot it's going on around you - expect that you will get arrested with the rioters . Also don't get cocky and throw the cops pease signs and other crap . If they want to confiscate your camera tell them you will be happy to cooperate as soon as you are given the proper paper work signed and dated so that you can retrieve said camera from evidence. Don't tell an officer of the law that he is wrong and don't tell him it's bs - the bikers treating the law with disregard is the bs and he should have been occomodating the law.

All that said - the cop got heated and lost his cool. If you are in a position of authority you have to lead by example . Slamming a door on some one is never acceptable.

[highpsiguy]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

They cops should have blocked off the thru way and arrested every person in the dash cam video. The one who was sticking his breaks on the cops and taking contraband from the truck passengers should have been run off the road by the cop . He deserves to be street pizza

And the guy with the helmet cam should have shut up and shown some respect, if you happen to be walking down the side walk while a riot it's going on around you - expect that you will get arrested with the rioters . Also don't get cocky and throw the cops pease signs and other crap . If they want to confiscate your camera tell them you will be happy to cooperate as soon as you are given the proper paper work signed and dated so that you can retrieve said camera from evidence. Don't tell an officer of the law that he is wrong and don't tell him it's bs - the bikers treating the law with disregard is the bs and he should have been occomodating the law.

Either we have a United States Constitution or we don't. Tens of thousands of brave men have died so we could have our rights. It is called the FOURTH Ammendment. The biker was asserting his knowledge "correctly I might ad" that the police officer was in the wrong. When the people who are enforcing the law are wrong it is our duty to defend ourselves from unlawful arrest. I don't believe that just because you are in a group of bikers being stupid that you are guilty just because you were there, no more than being guilty because somehow you are caught up in some type of riot by default. The biker had a choice to cooperate or not. He should not have to be forced to comply if he does not want to. That IS his right. If he WAS guilty then he should not have to implicate himself in the activity. That is called the FIFTH ammendment to the Constitution. You can roll over and be a good sheep/slave if you want to but not me. I will follow the law, but no more or no less than required. Why? because I am a sovereign citizen who is proud of the system that our forefathers set up for us to protect us from tyranny so we could have liberty and freedom.

[Alex]

I think it's about priorities.

When you wake up in the morning, do you say to yourself "today I'm going to defend the constitution", or "today I'm not going to do something dumb to get myself arrested"?

Those concepts aren't necessarily at odds with eachother. The more thoughtful bear can accomplish the second while also accomplishing the first. Those with unlimited time on their hands might be able to focus on the first without worrying about the consequences of the second.

[Gurk]

They both acted poorly. The bike guy should've stayed calm and deal with it later since they have nothing on him besides the licence plate.

Cop is a loser and there's no need for any explaining why.

Why make stupid hand gestures to the cop while being pulled over? Does that make you cool or change cop's decision to pull him over? No. It makes the idiot cop have one more reason to ruin your day. They are human after all and far from perfect. Doesn't make his actions toward a civilian right, but explains it a bit.

Anyway... I hate cops sometimes but 99% of videos I watch are all avoidable.

[Gurk]

Just watched the dash cam. LOL.

If I was pulled over and had nothing to do with all those riders, I'd be like "here's the camera officer. F@CK those idiots."

If there's anything I hate more than low self esteem cops, it's squids like those thinking they are too tough to obey the law.

[highpsiguy]

Originally Posted by Alex

I think it's about priorities.

When you wake up in the morning, do you say to yourself "today I'm going to defend the constitution", or "today I'm not going to do something dumb to get myself arrested"?

Those concepts aren't necessarily at odds with eachother. The more thoughtful bear can accomplish the second while also accomplishing the first. Those with unlimited time on their hands might be able to focus on the first without worrying about the consequences of the second.

When I wake up in the morning I dont say "Im going to defend the constitution". I wake up read the news and usually find how we are getting run over by our elected officials and public SERVANTS who have swore an oath to defend the Constitition. I wake up and go into the world proud of what liberty and freedoms that I still have left, because I know they are dwindling away by the day.

[ai4px]

Shame on cops that lie to get what they really want (in this case video). I think it would have turned out much different if the COP had said something to the effect: "Sorry to have to pull you over, but we have a report of a possible drug handoff we are investigating, and we think you may have the perp's license tag on your camera." Dunno about you guys, but I would have shared my video. But... the cop had to be a dick and make up a bogus charge of obstructed license tag. You know COP stands for Constable On Patrol, which used to mean a foot cop. But lately the cops ride around in their cars with the windows up completely out of touch with the community. It's no wonder that they are not liked in many areas.

[highpsiguy]

I do not agree with how the bikers were behaving. I understand the police officers who were trying to keep the public safe's frustration. I just don't agree with their solution.

[Klondike1020]

@highpsiguy
Hey I don't like the way our country is becoming less free each day.
This guy in the video was trying to be part of the problem.

I believe in freedom and see that camera being taken as unlawful search and seizure . But unless you are 100% blemish free don't screw with cops cause they can nit pick you straight to jail literally.

Do you think that crazy church protesting military funerals would say the same thing as you? Freedom and we are not breaking any laws? Yet what they are doing is obviously wrong . The guy behaved wrong... So they used the law to get him with a loop hole

I don't think what happened was right either way . Two people making bad choices on a hot day.

How are police supposed to do their job when there is no accountability and people are acting like anarchists

[csmith12]

Sorry, the dash cam vid do not offer any context pertaining to the guy getting pulled over for HIS own actions.

See article here: http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Sheri...159941355.html

News 8 asked to see Westbrook's dash cam video. We were told no video exists and therefore cannot be used in the internal affairs investigation that is now open.