250 not fast enough?

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Hero Danny

Holy hell, My supersport cost me a few bucks less than my old 300.

For insurance.

[Macharity]

Originally Posted by Sirref

whenever someone says a 250 isn't enough I show them this video, made by one of our quicker members. Sure it's not the fastest around but you don't need more than a 250-300 until you can ride like this, at least I don't

Link to original page on YouTube.

I agree so much! This video and the one of the guy in Thailand crushing the go-kart track on a 250R, are the two reasons I bought this as a first bike!

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by Macharity

I agree so much! This video and the one of the guy in Thailand crushing the go-kart track on a 250R, are the two reasons I bought this as a first bike!

This video?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[lizardywizard]

Partly because I'm a noob I'm sure, but my 300's acceleration definitely makes me make this face from time to time:

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by lizardywizard

Partly because I'm a noob I'm sure, but my 300's acceleration definitely makes me make this face from time to time:

Just you wait....

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by Sirref

whenever someone says a 250 isn't enough I show them this video, made by one of our quicker members. Sure it's not the fastest around but you don't need more than a 250-300 until you can ride like this, at least I don't

Link to original page on YouTube.

looks like any random weekend at a track day

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by lizardywizard

Partly because I'm a noob I'm sure, but my 300's acceleration definitely makes me make this face from time to time:

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Yes the 250 is light, with good RPM and slipping the clutch a bit it will straighten your arms right out...


the TLR will rip your arms off...







and beat you with them if you aren't careful.


If you apply the same skill and ability you have on a 250 to a 750 or 1000cc the results are 10e2 or 10e3

the cool thing is that the proper technique can and should be applied to all displacements...

Don't hate some of us because we like big pistons.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by lizardywizard

Partly because I'm a noob I'm sure, but my 300's acceleration definitely makes me make this face from time to time:

Wait until the first time you brake really hard.

[sharky nrk]

I have found that for sure my 250 is too slow, and my 600s as well lol. I imagine if I had a 1000 it would be the same way too.

Common denominator, the nut between the handlebars is too slow, LOL.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Wait until the first time you brake really hard.

Best practice is to do that almost every time you ride! Obviously; not in traffic!

Darn spellcheck! Lol!

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by AwDang

looks like any random weekend at a track day

Same here, it's all about skill level

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Macharity

I agree so much! This video and the one of the guy in Thailand crushing the go-kart track on a 250R, are the two reasons I bought this as a first bike!

It looks like fun, but no crushing was involved in the making of that video.

[Hero Danny]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

Age and coverage may be factors. And years riding too. But 99% of the time a bigger bike will be much more expencive to insure the the 250/300s.

Hell, i'm paying less than $20 a month for full coverage on this bike.

I believe it's because the bike was older. Doesn't make much sense to me, but I didn't complain about paying less!

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

Please don't take this the wrong way.

Yes the 250 is light, with good RPM and slipping the clutch a bit it will straighten your arms right out...


the TLR will rip your arms off...







and beat you with them if you aren't careful.


If you apply the same skill and ability you have on a 250 to a 750 or 1000cc the results are 10e2 or 10e3

the cool thing is that the proper technique can and should be applied to all displacements...

Don't hate some of us because we like big pistons.

Get cr carbs where it is all about a smooth wrist. Skills will transfer up....

If you whack the throttle, she dies.

If you turn too fast, she stumbles or dies.

Must be perfect.

[CaliGrrl]

Originally Posted by adouglas

No, you don't need a bigger bike. You might never want a bigger bike. So why worry about getting a bigger bike?

I frequently want to ask people what they expect to get out of the bigger bike. More power, sure, but half the time they're not using the power of the bike they have... so why?

And sure, people may think my 250 is a little bike, a beginner bike, something for a noob. She is. But I think I'll like her for a good long while and I'm not sad about having a "little" bike and they can go right ahead and think whatever they like and I won't care. I'm off in the canyons.

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

I frequently want to ask people what they expect to get out of the bigger bike. More power, sure, but half the time they're not using the power of the bike they have... so why?
...

That was probably rhetorical, but...a significant number of people seem to be wired for acceleration and top speed. When I mention the track, the most common reaction is a question/story/comment about drag strips. Straight lines. From my perspective, we (Americans as I view us) have a cultural bias toward needlessly powerful straight line vehicles. How often do you picture classic American muscle cars and reflect on their cornering 'performance'? How often do you see American made sportbikes? Perhaps I'm unfairly characterizing Nascar (I don't watch it), but if they could continue going fast for hundreds of miles without turning at all, rather than just left, it seems like they would.

As for size upgrades in other cultural backgrounds, I have no theory.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity360

Anyone else feel like people who ride "faster" bikes like a 600 or a 1000 dont think a 250 is a "real bike?" It gets a little annoying when I tell people I have a 250 and I LIKE IT, they tell me "oh you'll want something faster" or "You'll get there." Do you really NEED a bigger bike? I dont think so. I got up to 65 in 5th gear, how much faster do you need to go?

When I was a 20th century's teenager, I considered my first 50 c.c. bike a "real bike", and it meant that to me for long time.

Please, see https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132331

One of my friends had a Zundapp two-stroke 250 c.c.



He could pop a wheelie, as well as ride better than anyone that I knew.
That machine made him the alpha male of our group.

I rode it several times and the smooth gear selector was the thing that impressed me most.
I was very poor and could only dream of owning a machine like that one.
By then, we could do marvelous trips and have fantastic fun with 15 H.P.

Times have changed, as well as the perception of people about motorcycles.
Middle displacement motorcycles, however, were and still are very capable and venerable machines.

Those riders that do not know much about motorcycles are easily mislead by dealer's talk, which is nothing more than incorrect information for the highest profit sales.
Those riders that do know about motorcycles, do not repeat non-sense about one motorcycle being superior to another.

[CaliGrrl]

Originally Posted by toEleven

That was probably rhetorical, but...a significant number of people seem to be wired for acceleration and top speed. When I mention the track, the most common reaction is a question/story/comment about drag strips. Straight lines. From my perspective, we (Americans as I view us) have a cultural bias toward needlessly powerful straight line vehicles. How often do you picture classic American muscle cars and reflect on their cornering 'performance'?

It's true. One of the cars we had was a 1974 Gran Torino, which was one of the muscle cars they used to race in the 70s (and was the car in Starsky & Hutch). Go fast, sure, but they had the reputation of bad cornering ability. We never had that problem, but we never raced him, either.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by toEleven

That was probably rhetorical, but...a significant number of people seem to be wired for acceleration and top speed. When I mention the track, the most common reaction is a question/story/comment about drag strips. Straight lines. From my perspective, we (Americans as I view us) have a cultural bias toward needlessly powerful straight line vehicles. How often do you picture classic American muscle cars and reflect on their cornering 'performance'? How often do you see American made sportbikes? Perhaps I'm unfairly characterizing Nascar (I don't watch it), but if they could continue going fast for hundreds of miles without turning at all, rather than just left, it seems like they would.

As for size upgrades in other cultural backgrounds, I have no theory.

I think America tends to be larger and flatter than Europe. We have more straight, wide open roads, where they have a lot of winding roads. Not that either place doesn't have the other, but they seem to be more prevalent in those places.

This:


vs. this:



To relate drag racing back to bikes, https://www.facebook.com/AlwineRacing/ is the team of the guy who painted my truck. I don't think the lean angles are very good on it...

Originally Posted by CaliGrrl

It's true. One of the cars we had was a 1974 Gran Torino, which was one of the muscle cars they used to race in the 70s (and was the car in Starsky & Hutch). Go fast, sure, but they had the reputation of bad cornering ability. We never had that problem, but we never raced him, either.

And even the fastest version of that car still only did 0-60 in about the same time as a Ninjette (8.1s). The slowest version was 13.7s, which isn't really even an amazing 1/4 mile time anymore.

[Koala]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

I think America tends to be larger and flatter than Europe. We have more straight, wide open roads, where they have a lot of winding roads. Not that either place doesn't have the other, but they seem to be more prevalent in those places.

This:


vs. this:

I look at that second pic and just want to hop into an old Miata and scream through those turns

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by Koala

I look at that second pic and just want to hop onto a Ninjette and scream through those turns

Fixed that for you

[Koala]

Originally Posted by toEleven

Fixed that for you

Nice! I was thinking that as I typed that reply but alas, I don't have my own bike yet so no experience riding through a road like that on my own lol. That is why driving the Miata was the first thing that came to mind. Those lil roadsters are a blast. Believe me, I'll be posting all the fun first experiences I have on my Ninjette come next bike season Until then I have to wait patiently.

[VaFish]

Ninja 250 not enough?

This memorial day weekend I had an old Army buddy and some of his friends come into town for some sight seeing.

They were riding a Harley Dresser and Road King. Both newer models with the 103 ci engines. Now those are Big V twin bikes that make about 66 HP and 81 ft lbs of torque, Off the line they should be able to disappear from me with my 26 HP and 15 ft lbs of torque, they were riding two up, but I still had all my camping gear on the bike as well as my big but. When we stopped my buddy asked me if my bike was a 500 or 650. They couldn't believe they were having trouble keeping up with a 250. And I wasn't trying to lose them.

Yes that is an Apples to Cabbage comparison, but a bigger engine doesn't always mean a faster bike.

[ZeroGravity360]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Ninja 250 not enough?

This memorial day weekend I had an old Army buddy and some of his friends come into town for some sight seeing.

They were riding a Harley Dresser and Road King. Both newer models with the 103 ci engines. Now those are Big V twin bikes that make about 66 HP and 81 ft lbs of torque, Off the line they should be able to disappear from me with my 26 HP and 15 ft lbs of torque, they were riding two up, but I still had all my camping gear on the bike as well as my big but. When we stopped my buddy asked me if my bike was a 500 or 650. They couldn't believe they were having trouble keeping up with a 250. And I wasn't trying to lose them.

Yes that is an Apples to Cabbage comparison, but a bigger engine doesn't always mean a faster bike.

I've noticed almost all crusiers are slower than sport bikes

[NevadaWolf]

That's the rider, not the bike.

I've passed cruisers like they were standing still and have also have a full dress Harley smoke me in the corners. I *really really* wanted to tail that rider who railed every single corner, but I lost sight of him after three curves because I was third in the pack and couldn't pass to catch up.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

This:

Ah, Highway 50 in Nevada, the road that will make or break ya. That spot is about 40 minutes from my house

In the foreground, right where the road appears to level off, there is a brown sign on the left side. That marks the turn for the earthquake fault that struck in the mid 50's.

In the distance, on the other side of the "gate" that the highway goes through, is Middlegate. Loneliest stop on the loneliest highway. Damn good burger out there.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Koala

I look at that second pic and just want to hop into an old Miata and scream through those turns

There is no screaming on most of those particular turns at Passo Stelvio, sadly. They are tiny switchbacks done in 1st gear with steering at full lock. It opens up a bit coming down the other side of the pass.

[Koala]

Originally Posted by Alex

There is no screaming on most of those particular turns at Passo Stelvio, sadly. They are tiny switchbacks done in 1st gear with steering at full lock. It opens up a bit coming down the other side of the pass.

You just had to go and burst my bubble, didn't yah?

[Abu_Mishary]

I have started my motocycle years with a small 110cc moped when i was 13. Later I upgraded to a 650 parallel twin. Naked. Then to a bigger displacement of a 750 inline 4 supersport. I quit riding big bikes for a while (bike got stolen) but still riding with a 135cc moped. This is what I have found over the years :

1) Mopeds are fun. They are great commuters for daily riding. The drawback is that it's apain in the arse to ride for longer journeys.

2) Nakeds are also fun. Great town warrior. But it lacks (this is based on my experience) the riding position of a supersport, and the feel to enter an apex as body position is different.

3) Supersports are fast. Great to play with in the twisties but for me personally, not a great transportation for going through a busy road within towns.

When I upgraded back from the 135cc moped to ninjette, almost ALL of my biking friends, acquaintances asked the same question :

"Why did I start with a smaller displacement?"

The answer is simple. I want to have better exposure on fully fairing bike, as my experience with the ZX750 L was just a brief year. Even if it is a smaller displacement. Being used to ride a naked as my first big bike, there is a significant difference in the feeling of riding one to compared with a supersport or in this case, lightweight supersport. It goes back to your riding position preference and why you purchase it.

I have been acquainted to people who upgraded from a 250 (especially the 250 SL) because :

1) No top end.
2) Inline fours are better than inline twos / single.
3) Not a classy bike (these Kawis inline twos are CKD in my country. It is WAY cheaper than the CBUs).
4) Inline four sounds better than the inline twos (yes, sadly, this was also among the reason people upgraded).

Like I said, it depends on your riding skill and why you get the bike at the first place. An owner of a KLR 650 would be best to ride in those half tarmac / half gravel roads and a single is way cheaper to maintain than the inline fours. The supersports are better at turns, or the highways for speed, as the inline twos are best to be ridden along the country side.

Normally these kinds of people, who told you "what to get" or to predict "that you would be upgrading due to smaller engine displacements" are :

POSERS.

[Sirref]

250s are fast enough for sure

I beat a few SV650s racing last weekend and there were still 250s ahead of me (this on a borrowed 300 because mine went boom )
If the 250 can be faster than the SV650 which is a very respected bike then there is no need for a faster bike, just a faster rider (if speed is the goal)

for street it's really all you need

[adouglas]

250 nothing. I just came back from a fabulous couple of track days and there was a kid on a 125cc race bike that absolutely destroyed me.

Yeah, I know, apples and oranges. But still.

[Sirref]

well, the 125s are a bit different

The best recorded time on a ninja 250/300 at njmp thunderbolt is brandon paash with a 1:38.xxx

Paash on a 125 moto3 race bike (because that's what those are based on the classes they can race in) can run at least a 1.31.99 there and I believe those times are well below 1:29.99

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by adouglas

250 nothing. I just came back from a fabulous couple of track days and there was a kid on a 125cc race bike that absolutely destroyed me.

Yeah, I know, apples and oranges. But still.

2 stroke or 4 stroke?

Little Peter Lenz (R.I.P.) was on the track at Willow Springs on his 125 2 stroke and would blow us on our 600's off the track!
Nothing more humbling than a little racer bombing past you on the inside when up until that moment you thought you were 100% dialled in! Lol!

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by Sirref

well, the 125s are a bit different

theres a regular at JGP on a Honda NSR or RS 125 does 1:21's. Not sure exactly what model the bike is but it's tiny and on 17's

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Sirref

250s are fast enough for sure

I beat a few SV650s racing last weekend and there were still 250s ahead of me (this on a borrowed 300 because mine went boom )
If the 250 can be faster than the SV650 which is a very respected bike then there is no need for a faster bike, just a faster rider (if speed is the goal)

for street it's really all you need

What happened to your bike?

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by mgentz

What happened to your bike?

My intake cam skipped timing (18k hard miles, something is bound to happen eventually)

I managed to put it back into time but there is still a ticking noise from the valves. I am going to do a valve adjustment in the next few days and hope that that will solve the issue. If the issue persists then a new motor may be needed. I may be out for a few of the days I have planned to ride but I hope to make all of my upcoming races

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Sirref

250s are fast enough for sure

I beat a few SV650s racing last weekend and there were still 250s ahead of me (this on a borrowed 300 because mine went boom )
If the 250 can be faster than the SV650 which is a very respected bike then there is no need for a faster bike, just a faster rider (if speed is the goal)

for street it's really all you need

And I've done the same thing with an SV to 600 supersports multiple times. It doesn't really mean anything except that one rider has progressed more in his skill level than another.

The SV650 is basically a 250 Ninja with a bigger motor. I call them Golden Retriever bikes because they're fun to play with and won't bite you unless you do something really dumb. (This comment is not directed at anyone in particular, so don't take it personally and get your undies in a bunch )

Neither the SV or the Ninjette do anything particularly well, but they're cheap and fun to race. Especially when everybody else is racing the same thing.

[Sirref]

Yeah, the SV class looks like the most fun in the more competitive racing series like CCS/WERA

though the 250/300s are hella fun when you get the loaded grids

[xorbe]

I was out meandering in the curvy foothills one day, and had five 2-up HDs just rip by like no effs were given. Kinda hard to enjoy being outside going that fast!!

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by mgentz

Get cr carbs where it is all about a smooth wrist. Skills will transfer up....

If you whack the throttle, she dies.

If you turn too fast, she stumbles or dies.

Must be perfect.

Two words, "Fuel Injection"