Peg Scraping?

[mrudich]

I've been commuting on a twisty mountain road once or twice a week for the past year or so, and as the time has passed I've gradually gotten more comfortable going a little faster and leaning into the turns a little more.

This last time while going around two turns i scraped my pegs for a pretty large amount of the turn. Is this bad?

I hear of people leaning over too far and catching something hard and picking up a tire and sliding out and things like that. How much of a possibility is this?

If this is unsafe, how can this be prevented? Body position? Reduced speed? Or is this safe and normal?
Thanks!

[Yakaru]

I've dragged pegs a couple of times to no ill effect, but it is incredibly scary if you are caught off guard by it.

The pegs are a warning -- eventually you might snap the feelers off (or replace the pegs with rearsets) at which point you'll hopefully know your bike well enough to not run out of tire.

[sjc88]

If your scraping for a large portion of the turn sounds kinda unsafe to me..maybe your body position could use more work?

[JELY1990]

Our little 250s have pretty standard bike body position compared to supersports so the pegs are pretty easy to scrape. Not sure about pregens, but the newgens have peg feelers on the bottoms of the pegs to let you know when you're approaching peg scrape. Plus, the pegs fold so it's not a huge deal unless it surprises you and you make some abrupt move to upset the suspension like chopping the throttle.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by mrudich

I've been commuting on a twisty mountain road once or twice a week for the past year or so, and as the time has passed I've gradually gotten more comfortable going a little faster and leaning into the turns a little more.

This last time while going around two turns i scraped my pegs for a pretty large amount of the turn. Is this bad?

I hear of people leaning over too far and catching something hard and picking up a tire and sliding out and things like that. How much of a possibility is this?

If this is unsafe, how can this be prevented? Body position? Reduced speed? Or is this safe and normal?
Thanks!

It seems that you have solved that blown fuse issue !!!

Scrapping pegs on public roads is never good: you are going way too fast and above the speed limit (unless you weight much and your bike is heavily loaded).
There is more than scrapping involved: your suspension is working poorly at high lean angles:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958

Your Sport Demons can take a lot of lateral forces and allow you to go around corners fast.
Faster around corners traduces into higher lean angles.
Your pegs are articulated (they yield) and each has a sacrificial bar or feeler, which function is alerting you that you are close to scrap parts of the chassis that are not articulated and will not yield as your pegs, causing a pivoting effect that will make your rear tire take off and your bike crash.

Yes, hanging off your body will save two or three degrees of lean angle, but again, that is not for the street.

[CC Cowboy]

Slow Down before you get hurt or go to the track and learn how to take turns.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by JELY1990

Our little 250s have pretty standard bike body position compared to supersports so the pegs are pretty easy to scrape. Not sure about pregens, but the newgens have peg feelers on the bottoms of the pegs to let you know when you're approaching peg scrape. Plus, the pegs fold so it's not a huge deal unless it surprises you and you make some abrupt move to upset the suspension like chopping the throttle.

The pregen pegs are lower than the newgen/300 pegs stock vs stock they're ridiculously easy to scrape if you're not hanging off, yes they do have peg feelers. The stock exhaust is known for being easy to scrape too since it's so bulky and low.

I'd say hit up a track day and slow down a bit on public roads until you do so to avoid a lowside into furniture. Also check your body positioning, you should always be leaning more than your bike even if you aren't hanging off.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Sirref

The pregen pegs are lower than the newgen/300 pegs stock vs stock they're ridiculously easy to scrape if you're not hanging off, yes they do have peg feelers. The stock exhaust is known for being easy to scrape too since it's so bulky and low.

I'd say hit up a track day and slow down a bit on public roads until you do so to avoid a lowside into furniture. Also check your body positioning, you should always be leaning more than your bike even if you aren't hanging off.

Sliding into a table and chairs isn't as bad as going into a corner too fast then trying to correct and high siding! The first response, to a newbie, is to chop the throttle.

[Sirref]

except it actually takes some form of skill to highside, it's so much easier to slide out

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Sirref

except it actually takes some form of skill to highside, it's so much easier to slide out

Come on Ben, really, skill to highside. I'm thinking skill not to!

[Alex]

"Is peg scraping OK?" threads are typically followed about 2 weeks later by "how do I fix these plastics after lowsiding?" threads. The scraping is letting you know that you have very little margin left, without fixing a number of factors. (better body position, better cornering lines, better speed management, higher pegs, stiffer suspension, and probably a few more)

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Come on Ben, really, skill to highside. I'm thinking skill not to!

Most skill = not crash
Mid skill = highside
Low skill = lowside, rear from too much throttle or front from chopping the throttle. Losing the front doesn't necessarily mean highsiding the bike.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Most skill = not crash
Mid skill = highside
Low skill = lowside, rear from too much throttle or front from chopping the throttle. Losing the front doesn't necessarily mean highsiding the bike.

Losing the rear sure does, when you do the suicide chop.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sirref

Most skill = not crash
Mid skill = highside
Low skill = lowside, rear from too much throttle or front from chopping the throttle. Losing the front doesn't necessarily mean highsiding the bike.

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Losing the rear sure does, when you do the suicide chop.

Every high-side fall starts up as a rear tire's slid.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=160292

Link to original page on YouTube.

[alex.s]

great video!

[CycleCam303]

I'm going to agree with everyone about getting too close to the safety margin.

With that said, start looking up YouTube videos about proper sport bike body position. And then pick up a copy of Lee parks total control and read that. You can safely learn to hang off and use body positioning to make you safer while having fun in the canyons. You don't need to hang off like Marc Marquez, but getting into the position slightly can make a big difference. Sitting bolt upright is fine for cruising. Lowering your upper body and sliding a butt cheek off will really help with keeping traction when hitting a slick spot, or dirt, or having to brake mid corner to slow down for an animal or obstacle.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Every high-side fall starts up as a rear tire's slid.

I am aware that a highside is where the rear loses traction then regains traction out of line with the front, I just feel that it's harder to highside than it is to lowside. Then again I have the mentality of "when in doubt power out" so chopping the throttle with the rear sliding a bit isn't really an option.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I am aware that a highside is where the rear loses traction then regains traction out of line with the front, I just feel that it's harder to highside than it is to lowside. Then again I have the mentality of "when in doubt power out" so chopping the throttle with the rear sliding a bit isn't really an option.

......... But the OP has been riding for less than two months

He has good new tires, but if he keeps pushing on the speed and lean angle, a rear slid may happen sooner or later.
The natural thing to follow that will be the survival reaction of closing the throttle.

If at that precise moment the rear is in line, the front will tuck or nothing will happen, ........ but if it is out of alignment with the front?

Only for the OP and those not familiar with what a high-side fall is and how it develops from a rear tire skid:

http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?p=533235

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...showtopic=2165

[alex.s]

it's equally easy to high side and lowside if you don't know how to ride

[BoBO]

Sounds like your leaning more than enough. It might help if you hang off the bike a bit more to avoid the peg scrape. Find the body position that works for you, but I wouldn't lean that low unless I'm at the tracks. I was at the canyons the other week. There was this turn that I was familiar with and during that turn I had my bike leaned over fairly low and me hanging of my bike. I was tempted do drag my knee but decided not to. It was a good decision because there was a bunch little rocks and a happy meal bag halfway out of the turn. It reminded me to keep it in the track. But to answer your question, I would avoid scraping the pegs, it's a risk of crashing your bike.

[cbinker]

Slow down.

[nickjpass]

One of the factors that led to my lowside last summer was that my poor body positioning caused my motorcycle to be more leaned over than it had to be, which led to the peg scraping, and the lifting of my rear wheel. So yes, it can be very dangerous. Adjust your body positioning. There are lots of threads here and videos on YouTube.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by mrudich

I've been commuting on a twisty mountain road once or twice a week for the past year or so, and as the time has passed I've gradually gotten more comfortable going a little faster and leaning into the turns a little more.

This last time while going around two turns i scraped my pegs for a pretty large amount of the turn. Is this bad?

I hear of people leaning over too far and catching something hard and picking up a tire and sliding out and things like that. How much of a possibility is this?

If this is unsafe, how can this be prevented? Body position? Reduced speed? Or is this safe and normal?
Thanks!

Not safe or normal, but it is something almost all of us experience in the learning curve of riding. I'll never forget my first mountain experience only a couple of months after learning how to ride (stupid mistake #1). I dragged my stock 250s muffler all the way through the apex of a curve. I kept steady on the throttle and looked ahead, so thank GOD that corner didn't tighten up and more or I may have been "corner shy" for good. Instead, I was proud as hell, not of dragging muffler, but of keeping my cool through the corner I ****ed up and not losing it. Like others have said, if you're dragging hard parts, your line or your body position need work. Have you read Twist of the Wrist or Total Control? That's where I learned the art of cornering. Learn the how-to first, then practice at a track and get the experience of safe cornering in a controlled environment.
Work first on choosing a delayed apex line (google or Total Control can give you lots of info here). Perfect your lines first, and then work on moving half an ass cheek off the bike and "kiss the mirror" for good body position.
I tried to find a picture of how horrible my BP was my first time in the mountains, but dammit, I guess I lost them.

Originally Posted by Alex

"Is peg scraping OK?" threads are typically followed about 2 weeks later by "how do I fix these plastics after lowsiding?" threads. The scraping is letting you know that you have very little margin left, without fixing a number of factors. (better body position, better cornering lines, better speed management, higher pegs, stiffer suspension, and probably a few more)

[ally99]

Another thought, if you're stock, you probably still have peg feelers on your bike. Their purpose is to serve as a warning to you. If you have the feelers sticking off of the bottom of your pegs, you're ok. That doesn't mean dragging them is acceptable, but it does mean you're at the limit of your lean before you start scraping hard-er parts. If you don't have the feelers and you're scraping actual pegs, you're even further into the red zone, so do some reading and practicing in a safe environment before attempting technical street twisties again.

[mrudich]

Originally Posted by Sirref

The pregen pegs are lower than the newgen/300 pegs stock vs stock they're ridiculously easy to scrape if you're not hanging off, yes they do have peg feelers. The stock exhaust is known for being easy to scrape too since it's so bulky and low.

I'd say hit up a track day and slow down a bit on public roads until you do so to avoid a lowside into furniture. Also check your body positioning, you should always be leaning more than your bike even if you aren't hanging off.

sadly I am nowhere near being able to afford a track day...
so that's not a current option.
But I have slowed down and have been leaning off the bike a little more with great results so far! No more peg scraping and the turns feel a lot smoother.

Originally Posted by Motofool

......... But the OP has been riding for less than two months

He has good new tires, but if he keeps pushing on the speed and lean angle, a rear slid may happen sooner or later.
The natural thing to follow that will be the survival reaction of closing the throttle.

I have actually been riding for almost a year now (Yes I am still probably a noob)

Originally Posted by cbinker

Slow down.

Yes.

Originally Posted by ally99

Another thought, if you're stock, you probably still have peg feelers on your bike. Their purpose is to serve as a warning to you. If you have the feelers sticking off of the bottom of your pegs, you're ok. That doesn't mean dragging them is acceptable, but it does mean you're at the limit of your lean before you start scraping hard-er parts. If you don't have the feelers and you're scraping actual pegs, you're even further into the red zone, so do some reading and practicing in a safe environment before attempting technical street twisties again.

I do have the feelers so I guess it's to quite as bad, but thank you everyone I have slowed down and am leaning off the bike more.

Also for some background. This is the road I learned on. Possibly a twisty mountain/canyon road wasn't the best place to learn, but I live(d) out in the middle of nowhere so it was the only road there was. So I started on curves before I tried city and such, so I'm not quite new to them. This is not to say that I think I'm a pro at the twisties. I know I'm not (yet?)

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by mrudich

..........I have actually been riding for almost a year now (Yes I am still probably a noob)......

Don't mind my previous posts then.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171852

[nickjpass]

I don't even have the metal part to my scrapers/feelers anymore lloll

[ally99]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I don't even have the metal part to my scrapers/feelers anymore lloll

You should know what that means by now Nick. Someone needs some practice.

[nickjpass]

Hell yeah @ally99 means I'm a motogp quality rider.

Broke them off when I crashed and once when I dropped the bike lol I've yet to drag knee, and when I dragged peg I crashed

[csmith12]

Nick, you started on a dirt bike and then moved to a 600. While admirable.... what are you gunna do next to continue your skillz?

[ally99]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Nick, you started on a dirt bike and then moved to a 600. While admirable.... what are you gunna do next to continue your skillz?

TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Nick, you started on a dirt bike and then moved to a 600. While admirable.... what are you gunna do next to continue your skillz?

Lots of wheelies to get more swaggs

Street riding can get ready dull... so...

I plan on doing track days soon enough (@ally99 knows ) . Either before basic training or after. I wish before

[DCMoney]

Link to original page on YouTube.

My wife dragging the exhaust through turn 6 at Blackhawk this past weekend.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Nick, you started on a dirt bike and then moved to a 600. While admirable.... what are you gunna do next to continue your spillz?

Kids, they're indestructible, unless they get hurt. The they are cry babies.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by ally99

TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

do you think you put enough exclamation marks? lol

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you think you put enough exclamation marks? lol

She missed one in the end...

[rasta]

Back in October, after I'd been riding for about 3 months, I was out in the twisties around here. I was feeling confident on the bike and was pushing myself to 80% my limit. Then 90%. I kept pushing myself more in more. About halfway through the day I scraped a peg for the first time ever. I was actually kinda proud of it. I pushed myself even more, trying to increase lean angle in every turn. Trying to scrape more pegs. It wasn't before long that I lowsided from HORRIBLE body positioning. I was riding as confident as ever, and the next thing I knew, this video happened and I needed to start THIS crash thread.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Moral of the story: You shouldn't be scraping pegs, work on your body positioning. Or you might end up lowsiding into oncoming traffic.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by alex.s

do you think you put enough exclamation marks? lol

Why, no, I don't. Thanks!

TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 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Better?

[alex.s]

yes

[Worldtraveller]

Not sure if the pre-gens are the same, but on the new gens, if you're leaning left and scraping pegs, be very careful. The kickstand tab is easy to drag, and that has zero give.

There's a reason they make us cut it off before we can race. My first track day, I think I started dragging pegs about my third lap. Then, I started working on my body position so my knee was getting down before my toes/pegs. It does take a fair bit of practice to get the feel for going immediately to the correct position.