Racing tricks

[Floki]

What are some things you experienced guys have seen or do to your bikes to give them that extra edge? I'm fairly new to racing but this is what I've seen so far

Spoke to a guy at the GNF and noticed how freely his wheels spun. He said he rebuilds the calipers and applies grease to the pistons, and tightens the wheels to 20lbs or so.

Raced on Jovi's old bike with AwDang and they had the superbike rear reservoir and a safety wire choke cable.

[tgold]

Gearing: When I chose between sprocket combinations of the same ratio, I usually go with the larger diameter of the two. My reason for that has to do with the actual sprocket geometry. The path that the chain takes actually rises and falls as it goes around the sprocket. This is because the profile that it follows is not round but a polygon so as it rotates the points of that polygon make the chain ride and fall. This translates to vibration and wasted power. Yes, there is a slight increase in the moment of inertia of the sprockets, but the change is relatively small because the OD of the sprocket is fairly close to the rotating axis. Also, the smaller that you go with the sprocket (especially the front sprocket) you put greater stress on a smaller number of chain links. That again means wasted power and faster wear rates. It's especially important to pay attention to sprocket diameter when using a chain with smaller links and leower tensile strength like a 415 chain. If you're not willing to go to a smaller chain, you can consider going to a non o-ring chain to reduce friction. The downside is that you must pay more attention to keeping the chain clean and lubed to maintain that lower friction advantage and to reduce wear.

Don't over-tighten your chain. It will hinder smooth suspension movement and rapidly wear your chain. If you're running a 415 chain, overtightening could easily break it when you hit large bumps. Make sure that you still have some play when someone at least your weight is sitting on the bike.

The smallest lithium-iron battery that will reliably crank your bike will save several pounds over a lead-acid battery. You can usually find them for 50-60 dollars on ebay if you look hard enough.

Folding shift and brake levers can mean the difference between making your next race of the day or going home. it sometimes takes some looking at what levers from other bikes will work, but it's not hard.

Only put enough gas in your bike to get you through the race plus 4 or 5 laps. Any more is wasted weight you're carrying around. I know about the argument that it's better to finish the race with too much fuel than to run out. that may be true if your goal is to simply finish the race, but if you want to win, small details will matter when added up.

Ditch everything but the tachometer. The rest of the instruments are useless on a racetrack.

If you damage your bodywork, make a good repair. Don't just slap eight tons of resin and that non-woven fiberglass mat from autozone on it. Resin DOES NOT add strength to a proper repair. The job of the resin is only to hold the fibers in place so that the fibers can provide the strength. Extra weight = slower.

Pay attention to the aerodynamic profile of the bike and remove stuff that is sticking out in the wind wherever possible.

Substitute aluminum wheel spacers for steel ones. pay attention to the ones that have a dust seal and adjust the diameter to have as little drag as possible in order to get the job done. Keep them clean. keep the bike clean. don't let a pound of chain sludge accumulate under the sprocket cover.

Reduce the weight of the sprocket cover to only what is needed to support the shift shaft.

Use aluminum or plastic hardware for the windscreen. Get the touring or Corsa wind screen from Zero Gravity for better aerodynamics:http://www.zerogravity-racing.com/pr...ge.php?pn=281#

Get a race suit with the aero-hump on the back of have one put on. Barnacle Bill does that: http://www.racingleather.com/index.html

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by tgold

Folding shift and brake levers can mean the difference between making your next race of the day or going home. it sometimes takes some looking at what levers from other bikes will work, but it's not hard.

I'm going to disagree with this point.
Folding levers can still be broken off in a crash. With the cost of folding levers you can stock up on $12 stock replacements.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

I'm going to disagree with this point.
Folding levers can still be broken off in a crash. With the cost of folding levers you can stock up on $12 stock replacements.

Yes, but it is not as easy to catch on something to bend it if it can fold out of the way. I'm specifically talking about the shift and rear brake levers and they are pretty cheap, but folding front brake and clutch levers can make a difference as well.

Sure, some things may cost more and there is a difference between just throwing wads of cash at a bike and choosing to to use your resources wisely. Everyone has to make the choice in how much they are willing to spend/sacrifice in order to win.
I've spent most of my racing career figuring out how to win without spending a lot of cash, but to be honest, if you're worried about spending $12.00 vs $16.00 on a lever, you may want to reconsider the sport you are in. I'm not being harsh, that's just the reality of racing.

Lever that will most likely work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrome-Foldi...dWMdjv&vxp=mtr

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by tgold

I've spent most of my racing career figuring out how to win without spending a lot of cash, but to be honest, if you're worried about spending $12.00 vs $16.00 on a lever, you may want to reconsider the sport you are in. I'm not being harsh, that's just the reality of racing.

That comment was unnecessary and adds no value to this conversation.

I was speaking directly to $100 clutch and brake levers.
I did not address foot control levers as almost every rearset manuf includes replaceable tips or folding ends.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

That comment was unnecessary and adds no value to this conversation.

I was speaking directly to $100 clutch and brake levers.
I did not address foot control levers as almost every rearset manuf includes replaceable tips or folding ends.

I was not talking about the clutch and front brake levers. I was talking about foot controls and that's why I said that. I agree that money could be better spent elsewhere beside fancy hand controls. With stock hand levers I actually use a trick that I learned in motocross a long time ago: I only tighten the lever perch enough to keep it from rotating around the bar in normal use. That way a when it hits something it has a chance to move by rotating the entire mount so it increases the chance of not breaking.

I usually don't buy aftermarket rearsets. I just make riser plates and use the stock rearsets with OEM folding tip replacement levers and folding knurled footpegs. I've moved away from solid-mount footpegs simply because I've seen lots of bent rearset brackets at least in part due to the higher forces applied due to greater leverage. With the relative weakness of the 250 Ninja mount points, I don't want to apply any extra leverage to that area.

[bruce71198]

Become an exceptional rider on the least modified bike.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by tgold

I only tighten the lever perch enough to keep it from rotating around the bar in normal use. That way a when it hits something it has a chance to move by rotating the entire mount so it increases the chance of not breaking.

Dang it... you're not supposed to give those ninja secrets out. Floki only asked for tricks.

[Foxrider64]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Dang it... you're not supposed to give those ninja secrets out. Floki only asked for tricks.

This isn't a ninja secret- I have been doing this for years on my dirt bikes.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Become an exceptional rider on the least modified bike.

Exceptional doesn't necessarily mean good

[tgold]

Floki,

Are you talking supersport class or superbike? That can change the way you approach bike prep quite a bit.

[daverdfw]

So as someone prepping a bike for track days I have a question about the chain. My buddy just bought a race prepped 250 with a 520 chain but non O-ring and you can feel there is a lot less resistance. So on a bike dedicated just for the track would the 415 or a non o-ring be the best bet? Also on the non O-ring whats the best method to keep it lubricated? Thanks!

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

So as someone prepping a bike for track days I have a question about the chain. My buddy just bought a race prepped 250 with a 520 chain but non O-ring and you can feel there is a lot less resistance. So on a bike dedicated just for the track would the 415 or a non o-ring be the best bet? Also on the non O-ring whats the best method to keep it lubricated? Thanks!

After killing 415's I went 520. I'll go o-ring when these wear out. Because the ease of use and longevity are higher priority to me than .003 sec

[CC Cowboy]

Less weight is the easiest way to go faster. So, if you have any extra pounds on your body shed them. It is easier to lose 10 pounds (or more) off your body then tryng to shed 10 pounds off your bike.

As far as tricks, try a "no passing" sign on the back of your bike.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by tgold

Exceptional doesn't necessarily mean good

ex·cep·tion·al
ˌikˈsepSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
unusually good; outstanding.

synonyms: outstanding, extraordinary, remarkable, special, excellent, phenomenal, prodigious; More

I suppose, too, that someone could be exceptionally bad at something.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

ex·cep·tion·al
ˌikˈsepSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
unusually good; outstanding.

synonyms: outstanding, extraordinary, remarkable, special, excellent, phenomenal, prodigious; More

I suppose, too, that someone could be exceptionally bad at something.

Exactly

[subxero]

using the correct treatment on your gloves... don't knock it until you try it

[tgold]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

So as someone prepping a bike for track days I have a question about the chain. My buddy just bought a race prepped 250 with a 520 chain but non O-ring and you can feel there is a lot less resistance. So on a bike dedicated just for the track would the 415 or a non o-ring be the best bet? Also on the non O-ring whats the best method to keep it lubricated? Thanks!

IMO, if you're only doing trackdays it's a complete waste of money. If you're up against some good talent and in the hunt for a championship... maybe. But keep up on the maintenance or you'll wind up on the side of the track watching your championship ride off into the distance.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Less weight is the easiest way to go faster. So, if you have any extra pounds on your body shed them. It is easier to loose 10 pounds (or more) off your body then tryng to shed 10 pounds off your bike.

As far as tricks, try a "no passing" sign on the back of your bike.

Aerodynamics matter more.

[Floki]

I'm running Supersport in WERA this year. The fastest expert was 3 seconds better than my best time. I also had a stock battery, stock chain, weird gearing, and other weight items I've since removed. I'm probably being bumped to expert halfway through the season so I'd like win that this year,

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Less weight is the easiest way to go faster......

Originally Posted by tgold

Aerodynamics matter more.

Both things are very important.

Weight kills acceleration, while air drag and mechanical friction (clutch in oil, O-ring chain, brakes drag, etc.) limit top speed.

Adjusting tire's pressure and suspensions to track's conditions keep optimum traction.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Floki

What are some things you experienced guys have seen or do to your bikes to give them that extra edge? I'm fairly new to racing but this is what I've seen so far

Spoke to a guy at the GNF and noticed how freely his wheels spun. He said he rebuilds the calipers and applies grease to the pistons, and tightens the wheels to 20lbs or so.

Raced on Jovi's old bike with AwDang and they had the superbike rear reservoir and a safety wire clutch cable.

Become the best rider you can possibly be. Invest in rider training and up your skills. Train, ride, train, ride. Work on yourself first.

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Become an exceptional rider on the least modified bike.

Exactly.

[cbinker]

more throttle less brake seems to be the winning combo.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by tgold

Aerodynamics matter more.

You should also say from what speed on aerodynamics start to matter...
In case of the 2-fiddy it's weight, weight and much more less weight.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Both things are very important.

Weight kills acceleration, while air drag and mechanical friction (clutch in oil, O-ring chain, brakes drag, etc.) limit top speed.

Adjusting tire's pressure and suspensions to track's conditions keep optimum traction.

Originally Posted by Somchai

You should also say from what speed on aerodynamics start to matter...
In case of the 2-fiddy it's weight, weight and much more less weight.

Aerodynamics absolutely affect acceleration.

Ever race bicycles in a pack and then try to break away? That'll tell you a lot about how aerodynamics apply at low speeds as well. Sure, a 250 Ninja has a lot more power than a bicycle racer, but air resistance affects acceleration regardless. It's a matter of physics, it's not a matter of opinion.

[adouglas]

For those who've never seen it, there was an EPIC thread on Gixxer about some tool who actually poured two bottles of this into his fuel tank because the bike wasn't running right. Figured that "extra octane would help."

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570

This is absolutely worth the read. Caution: Do not have coffee in your mouth or you'll be cleaning your keyboard. It's a hysterically funny squidfest.

It takes them until about post 30 to figure out that he'd used this instead of NOS injector cleaner.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Become an exceptional rider on the least modified bike.

Originally Posted by Misti

Become the best rider you can possibly be. Invest in rider training and up your skills. Train, ride, train, ride. Work on yourself first.



Exactly.

As much as I agree that improving our skills is important. It is not a trick. It takes lots of practice and thought.

However, I believe Floki's question was about what to do to the bike in the context of doing what it takes to win. Both rider improvement and bike preparation are important.

Making a bike better at doing it's job makes it easier for the rider to do his or her job. The less mentally taxing a bike is to ride, the easier a rider can sustain a high level of concentration. It's that very basic principle that I've kept with me ever since I first read Twist of the Wrist: That I only have so much concentration that I can spend racing a motorcycle. So why would I want to spend some of that precious concentration on overcoming a lower level of bike competitiveness?


The best racing season that I've ever had was one where our team not only rode our butts off, but prepared our butts off with the bike and our racing strategy. We went from pouring gas in with a regular can, to a pseudo quick-fill, to a full dry-break setup and we would rehearse everyone's role for each pit stop. Even our rival teams commented on how much they could see thatour pit stops improved over the season.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Floki

I'm running Supersport in WERA this year. The fastest expert was 3 seconds better than my best time. I also had a stock battery, stock chain, weird gearing, and other weight items I've since removed. I'm probably being bumped to expert halfway through the season so I'd like win that this year,

Floki, I don't think that WERA will move you up halfway through the year, but I'd check.

The really good news for you is that WERA's rules regarding bodywork for the 250 supersport class are that what you do is unrestricted.
From the rulebook:
"F SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE
200-250cc 4-stroke air or water-cooled twins
200-250cc 4-stroke air or water-cooled singles
*No bodywork restrictions.
*No engine modifications allowed
*All bikes may upgrade to 17” wheels so long as they do not weigh less than the stock wheels for that model.
*Kickstand mounts may be cut off of frame."

This means that you have the opportunity to change bodywork to something more aerodynamic than the stock profile. I don't really see many people doing this in WERA and I think that it could provide a huge advantage with the right bodywork. IMO, the later Honda RS250, and Yamaha TZ250 bodywork could provide a pretty good advantage, Also the Apriliia RS250 bodywork and possibly the Honda RS125 "Big boy" bodywork.

No bodywork restrictions means that you can take off stuff that doesn't do anything. For instance, the two plastic side panels below the back of the tank and the seat. Decoration. Ditch 'em. The inner shroud in the upper bodywork and fork area, same thing.

I wouldn't compromise on suspension either. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to spend more than anybody else, but it does mean that you should spend a lot of time tuning and thinking about how the changes you make affect the handling of your bike. That process will have the extra benefit of making you more aware of what the bike is doing and what you are doing in the process. It really kind of forces you to be more discerning in what is going on and that will make you a better rider along the way.

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by tgold

Floki, I don't think that WERA will move you up halfway through the year, but I'd check.

They can

This means that you have the opportunity to change bodywork to something more aerodynamic than the stock profile. I don't really see many people doing this in WERA and I think that it could provide a huge advantage with the right bodywork. IMO, the later Honda RS250, and Yamaha TZ250 bodywork could provide a pretty good advantage, Also the Apriliia RS250 bodywork and possibly the Honda RS125 "Big boy" bodywork.

The wining expert at the 2015 GNF was 4sec off of the 250 track record. I own the bike that set the that track record @Barber. It was rider skill.

[Floki]

That same rider that place the fastest lap at the GNF broke the 250 reverse Jennings record a month later. And WERA explicitly told me in my appeal to stay in novice that if I do well this season they will bump me up halfway through. I really don't have a huge budget, as I'm in college and always had issues maintaining a steady job and getting good grades. It's really hard for me to get out on track frequently. In all honesty my only track time this year will be the WERA races at NOLA and the GNF. If I'm lucky I'll get to do the CMRA round of NOLA over the summer. That's why I was asking what can I do to have my bike in its best condition so I can focus on my riding the few chances I get.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

They can



The wining expert at the 2015 GNF was 4sec off of the 250 track record. I own the bike that set the that track record @Barber. It was rider skill.

And your point is?

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by tgold

And your point is?

rider skill > $$$$ spent

[Floki]

@tgold what is the advantage of steel vs aluminum wheel spacers? I have the stock ones, which I presume are steel. But I just ordered the aluminum speedo replacement one from a ninjette member

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Floki

That same rider that place the fastest lap at the GNF broke the 250 reverse Jennings record a month later. And WERA explicitly told me in my appeal to stay in novice that if I do well this season they will bump me up halfway through. I really don't have a huge budget, as I'm in college and always had issues maintaining a steady job and getting good grades. It's really hard for me to get out on track frequently. In all honesty my only track time this year will be the WERA races at NOLA and the GNF. If I'm lucky I'll get to do the CMRA round of NOLA over the summer. That's why I was asking what can I do to have my bike in its best condition so I can focus on my riding the few chances I get.

I bought my current set of used TZ250 bodywork for about $220.00. The reason that I like bodywork as a solution is that once installed, it doesn't wear out, yet it can provide a distinct performance advantage. Unless of course you crash. But the risk for that is virtually the same no matter what bodywork you choose.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Floki

@tgold what is the advantage of steel vs aluminum wheel spacers? I have the stock ones, which I presume are steel. But I just ordered the aluminum speedo replacement one from a ninjette member

It's lighter. A small advantage to be sure, but the cumulative effect of reducing weight in a bunch of small places is where it becomes noticeable. In the supersport class, it's tougher to to get an advantage in that department, so that means that you have to pay closer attention to do everything that you can within the rules to remove excess weight. Many people think that a certain little thing won't make a difference, but those little things add up.

Then there's the psychological advantage of knowing that you really have put your best effort into having the best prepared machine on the grid. Knowing that the bike I'm riding is at least as good as any other bike on the grid builds my confidence. That's because there's no thoughts lurking in the back of my mind about how my bike might be holding me back. That's just me though

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by tgold

It's lighter. A small advantage to be sure, but the cumulative effect of reducing weight in a bunch of small places is where it becomes noticeable. In the supersport class, it's tougher to to get an advantage in that department, so that means that you have to pay closer attention to do everything that you can within the rules to remove excess weight. Many people think that a certain little thing won't make a difference, but those little things add up.

Then there's the psychological advantage of knowing that you really have put your best effort into having the best prepared machine on the grid. Knowing that the bike I'm riding is at least as good as any other bike on the grid builds my confidence. That's because there's no thoughts lurking in the back of my mind about how my bike might be holding me back. That's just me though

Steel is twice the strength but twice the weight of aluminium, so how would steel wheel spacers be lighter?

[Floki]

I think he just worded it ambiguously and meant aluminum is better than steel

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Somchai

You should also say from what speed on aerodynamics start to matter...
In case of the 2-fiddy it's weight, weight and much more less weight.

anytime you are wide open throttle on a 250 aero is important. Im over 6 feet tall and am always getting passed on the straights by shorter riders.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

rider skill > $$$$ spent

You are equating money spent directly with good bike preparation and that is not necessarily true. And you are also treating bike preparation as if it isn't a skill that matter. At least not one that you think will make a difference in winning.


So you have the bike that won the GNF. Do you really think that there's no way to significantly improve it in such a way that it could make it easier to go even faster?

If I win with a well-prepared bike is that any less of an accomplishment than winning on a crappy bike? Depends on who you ask. But if I'm standing on the top step of the podium, I don't really care that much about that person's opinion.

[cbinker]

Originally Posted by Floki

That same rider that place the fastest lap at the GNF broke the 250 reverse Jennings record a month later. And WERA explicitly told me in my appeal to stay in novice that if I do well this season they will bump me up halfway through. I really don't have a huge budget, as I'm in college and always had issues maintaining a steady job and getting good grades. It's really hard for me to get out on track frequently. In all honesty my only track time this year will be the WERA races at NOLA and the GNF. If I'm lucky I'll get to do the CMRA round of NOLA over the summer. That's why I was asking what can I do to have my bike in its best condition so I can focus on my riding the few chances I get.

Keep the bike similar to what it is now, you know how it feels. if you change too much now you will be spending all your track time adapting to your bike.