January 24th, 2012, 02:08 AM | #1 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
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applying brake before releasing throttle?
so let me ask you guys a question
i may sound like a stupid squid though when you get on the brakes, coming into a slow corner from a fast straight, do you ever start braking before you let off the throttle? like not much just enough to compress the forks a little. and not for long just right before and just a little bit so when you let off the gas and get on the brake harder the nose dives less? i started doing it on sunday and things felt smoother... but im scared im going to break my front loose or something right before getting on the brakes and tucking my front... :/
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January 24th, 2012, 04:34 AM | #3 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
Once I lost my rear tire on some sand while braking too hard while cornering. Since then, I only use just enough pressure for chain tightening. I don't see any advantage to routine braking with the fronts in a curve.
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January 24th, 2012, 05:05 AM | #4 |
Milkshake Drinker
Name: Skippii
Location: Richmond, Va
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.
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I've got pretty long fingers but I still think it would be really awkward to use the lever with the throttle turned...Haven't really tried it, but I like my hand movements to be a nice smooth motion of letting off the throttle as I reach for the lever..
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January 24th, 2012, 07:25 AM | #5 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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The point in time you're referencing is a throttle roll off for me. Seems to me that the added throttle at that time will only add to the compression force to the front suspension when hard front braking is applied setting entry speed, possibly pushing you out of the sweet mid-range zone. I think this is one of those areas where its different for everyone in terms of what works for them, bike setup, preloads, fork oil weight, tires and generally how aggressively a rider approaches a corner.
Please refer to the attached image where 2 orange lines identify the zone your question references. This is the throttle roll off just before braking/blipping setting corner entry speed. Complete the roll off quickly, but don't chop as it will not feel smooth. The image also identifies another zone (2 blue lines). This is the area where I find myself rolling on the throttle with a VERY light touch of rear brakes still in effect. The only reason I do this is to smooth out the transition and not have a lurching affect in case of throttle control error or cush drive/chain slop. I also must add, I don't do this for every sharp corner. Also as you know, environmental, bike and rider conditions can move the lines around, so adjust to fit your needs. ** THESE TECHNIQUES ARE NOT FOR BEGINNERS, USE WITH CAUTION **
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January 24th, 2012, 09:51 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: john
Location: Palm Beach County, Fl Sligo County, Eire
Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ninja 250 street fighter, 2008 street fighter ninja 500, 2001 nsr 125 Posts: 812
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You're the guy everyone hated in high school! Great post!
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January 24th, 2012, 10:04 AM | #7 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Hmm...not sure what this has anything to do with the thread. Personal vendetta...if so, keep it to PM.
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January 24th, 2012, 10:08 AM | #8 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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He was just joking around Nem, I got it.
I also saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geico.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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January 24th, 2012, 11:23 AM | #9 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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not sure what coondogs problem is. i think some people misunderstood what i was saying.
thanks for the reply chris, i didnt think about using the rear brake for that. i guess it would be about the same as rolling off the throttle slower wouldnt it? definitely would smooth things out but i feel like using the front brake sets up the forks a little bit better for a quicker front brake application... the process im talking about for those not getting it: * WOT, * approach braking zone, maybe 20 feet before braking zone, apply 5-10% front brake, * forks begin to dive, * roll off throttle and start applying more brakes... these two happen almost the same time... throttle roll off happens quicker than the brakes come on. * then full brakes, get down to speed (brakes down to maybe 40% by this time), * turn in, * then slowly trail the brake the rest of the way until a little bit before the apex (depending on the turn), * then back to throttle roll on, smooth to wot as you give it a little help picking up with the inside bar as you can get back to full power
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January 24th, 2012, 11:27 AM | #10 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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He was just complimenting Chris on a brainy yet accurate reply.
Yup.
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January 24th, 2012, 11:28 AM | #11 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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EDIT - Just downshift and modulate the clutch.
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January 24th, 2012, 11:56 AM | #14 | |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Honestly...on the 600, I just simplify everything by not over thinking it. In other words, I just deal with it. Your issue isn't with the front brakes/suspension but how to take a short quick turn coming from a fast straight away. That's your problem. Me? I just brake late & hard and release and just FLICK the bike and let the suspension & tires do its thang.
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January 24th, 2012, 12:14 PM | #15 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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thanks jon. next chance i get i will practice diving in later with a quicker turn in dont be affraid to be brutally honest with me, it takes a lot for me to get butthurt. i already know im a horrible squid who sucks
i want to do some front fork tuning... something about getting hard on the brakes on that bike when going fast feels... off... at least compared to the 250... but then again you are only going like 100mph at the most on the 250... hmm maybe i shoould just take the 250!!!
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January 24th, 2012, 12:50 PM | #16 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Here's another honesty, you're a fast learner. You were smooth out there with a really decent pace for someone who's never been to that track.
There are a few issues you need to work on and one of them is getting rid of that bike and getting you on a proper bike. And I don't mean a 250. I mean a more updated bike with better suspension (front & rear).
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January 24th, 2012, 01:24 PM | #17 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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hmm. but new bikes are so expensive... do you think i can get away with an r6 shock and emulators in the front? maybe ill try to sell the 250 to help fund a new 600
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January 24th, 2012, 02:17 PM | #18 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Or how about you race a 250.
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January 24th, 2012, 02:39 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
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Track riding?
Alex, it might have helped us a little if you had mentioned that you were talking about track riding. I see in your posts you mention 100mph turns at WOT. At least I hope you are talking about the track. Its apples and oranges as far as I can tell. Not many people take street corners at 100 mph anyway.
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January 24th, 2012, 02:55 PM | #20 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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oh. right.
sorry. dont take corners at 100mph on the street. as dustin from trackdaz says, the street is for wheelies and stoppies and ****
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January 24th, 2012, 03:18 PM | #22 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Get your CVMA racer license and trackday fees are reduced to $100 w/trackdaz. Also other orgs give you racer's discount. Some good stuff right there!
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January 24th, 2012, 05:54 PM | #24 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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I just started to get confident passing people in B group when I started to race and after the first race weekend BAM! I'm doing A pace.
Telling you, racing is the shizzle!
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January 24th, 2012, 06:12 PM | #26 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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I'm sure I shared this somewhere either here or on SCM but the true reason why I signed up for the NRS was to get discounts on trackdays. Yeah, I'm a cheap @$$.
But after I did the mock race...OMGosh! I had a grin from ear to ear and I had found a new love for the sport that was just starting to die down for me (i.e. doing trackdays).
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January 28th, 2012, 02:01 PM | #27 |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.
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January 28th, 2012, 02:28 PM | #28 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I do everything that is in his diagram on the street. Like Chris stated, not for beginners, but learning this stuff is what makes a beginner into a better rider. Plus as an added benefit, it is a whole lotta fun
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January 28th, 2012, 02:41 PM | #29 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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its extremely addictive when you get used to it i can only imagine how addictive backing it in is
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January 29th, 2012, 12:45 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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