Bought a bike seller flaked on title but have bill of sale - HELP

[bbjminardo]

So I went on craigslist found this sweet bike and this guy seemed to be cool and everything and time came down to go check it out and I had to work for the only time we could meet so my grandpa (that had to go get it with the truck anyway) and hes been riding motorcycles forever so he was gonna check it out and buy it with the money I gave him if it seemed good. Well the guy said for whatever reason he didnt have the title which my grandpa said was fine and got a bill of sale with the VIN number saying he sold it to me with my full name on it and both of therre signatures. The guy had 7 days to get it to us and he just completely blew us off so we figured it was stolen but we had a cop next door do a search on it and the vin was clean and no lien on the bike so the cop inspected it all and signed an affidavit saying everything was clean and its mine or whatever and now we told the bmv and they told us we need to go to court to get a title. And that is deffiently not something I'm wanting to do Id rather figure out some other way and my cousin told me I should be able to just apply for a lost title and not tell the bmv the full story just that I have to apply for a lost title and show paper work.

So what are your opinions should I be good to just apply for a lost title? Lost title seems like it would be much easier and faster!
Also trust me I learned not to buy anything without the title in hand even though I had no control over it since I was not there for the buy.

[krolinked]

I would take the issue up with the local Police Department....

Do you know where the guy lives? Have his Drivers License Number?

[Lewis3845]

I see your from Indy and I am also. I had this problem before too with a bass boat and it was my fathers friend he sold it to me with a bill of sale because he didn't have the title as the guy he got it off of lost it. I went to the BMV here and they researched it for over 30 minutes and said that I must get the original owner to apply for a lost title and then when he gets it he can sign it over to me and that's excactly what I did.I think you might end up having to go to court. A bill of sale means nothing to the BMV as anyone can write one up. Craigslist is full of people selling stuff with no title there is no reason that guy don't or can't get the title unless it has to do with something illegal and in the future I wouldn't buy anything without a clear clean title on hand.

[csmith12]

Oh dear..... good luck.

[nickjpass]

That sucks man...

[contact148]

go down the the local courts and ask

here in Ontario canada (varies around the world) I had the same problem with a dirt bike

I was able to swear and oath to a JP that i was the legal owner of said bike (had bill of sale AND a suzuki dealer letter comfirming the vin) and they gave me papers to take to the DMV cost me like $80.00 at court

worth asking might not be legal in your area but no harm in asking

for future buys, get the persons DL # I use my phone and take a pic of it the names on the DL AND the ownership MUST match or no deal for me

you can also use google foo search a persons name,# email to see if they scam

[lgk]

the guy could have gotten a replacement title easily, if he wanted to....

if i remember right you have to apply for a title for an abandoned vehicle.
could take 2 months or more...

[ChaoSS]

It's different in every state, here in CA you would have to have the seller sign the lost title form, and then you could get the title with the bill of sale.


Ask one of the local tow companies how they do liens on vehicles, you might be able to apply for a mechanics lien on it, (for storage, whatnot) and so long as it doesn't get contested you can get the title that way.

[bbjminardo]

The guy is in jail for other charges so I have no contact with him. I have his grandmas address but its an hour away so not like I want to chase that for nothing. She probably doesn't have a clue but no ID number and again I was not there for the purchase so I can't do much about no getting the right info. I can't believe that the dmv wouldn't give me a title if I have the bill of sale with VIN proving ownership...

[n4mwd]

First off, NEVER buy a bike without a title. If its not in your hand, then there is no title.

Find out who the legal owner is. If its the same guy you bought it from then you only have to find him (in jail) and get him to sign over the title. Believe me, given his current circumstances, you can make a LOT of trouble for him if he doesn't cooperate. Things like, "Excuse me your honor, but before you start the trial with this guy I was wondering if you could make him sign the title for the bike he fraudulently sold me and didn't give me the title for."

You can also sue him for the value of the bike in small claims.

You can check with the DMV and see if they allow abandonment titles. This is usually where you find an old vehicle abandoned on your property and the law has a process for claiming it as yours. Since you have possession of the bike on your property, you can start the paperwork. It takes months and requires placing legal ads in the paper.

Good luck.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

First off, NEVER buy a bike without a title. If its not in your hand, then there is no title.

Find out who the legal owner is. If its the same guy you bought it from then you only have to find him (in jail) and get him to sign over the title. Believe me, given his current circumstances, you can make a LOT of trouble for him if he doesn't cooperate. Things like, "Excuse me your honor, but before you start the trial with this guy I was wondering if you could make him sign the title for the bike he fraudulently sold me and didn't give me the title for."

You can also sue him for the value of the bike in small claims.

You can check with the DMV and see if they allow abandonment titles. This is usually where you find an old vehicle abandoned on your property and the law has a process for claiming it as yours. Since you have possession of the bike on your property, you can start the paperwork. It takes months and requires placing legal ads in the paper.

Good luck.

+1

Reading his/her initial post I was thinking man there's a lot of stuff that went wrong with this buy (buyer's end). Also no matter how good the price is (thinking that's what lured you in) if it's too good to be true...well, you know how the rest goes.

Btw, what's a BMV?

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by bbjminardo

So I went on craigslist found this sweet bike and this guy seemed to be cool and everything and time came down to go check it out and I had to work for the only time we could meet so my grandpa (that had to go get it with the truck anyway) and hes been riding motorcycles forever so he was gonna check it out and buy it with the money I gave him if it seemed good. Well the guy said for whatever reason he didnt have the title which my grandpa said was fine and got a bill of sale with the VIN number saying he sold it to me with my full name on it and both of therre signatures. The guy had 7 days to get it to us and he just completely blew us off so we figured it was stolen but we had a cop next door do a search on it and the vin was clean and no lien on the bike so the cop inspected it all and signed an affidavit saying everything was clean and its mine or whatever and now we told the bmv and they told us we need to go to court to get a title. And that is deffiently not something I'm wanting to do Id rather figure out some other way and my cousin told me I should be able to just apply for a lost title and not tell the bmv the full story just that I have to apply for a lost title and show paper work.

So what are your opinions should I be good to just apply for a lost title? Lost title seems like it would be much easier and faster!
Also trust me I learned not to buy anything without the title in hand even though I had no control over it since I was not there for the buy.

Was that the 2011 MV Agusta for $700 on craiglist? I wanted to buy that too.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Was that the 2011 MV Agusta for $700 on craiglist? I wanted to buy that too.

+1
could have saved $40k

[bbjminardo]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

First off, NEVER buy a bike without a title. If its not in your hand, then there is no title.

Find out who the legal owner is. If its the same guy you bought it from then you only have to find him (in jail) and get him to sign over the title.

Yea like I said lesson learned BUT I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PURCHASE! There was a title he was trying to get to us, and he was the owner! He requested a title to be mailed to him and I called the DMV to confirm that so he wasn't lying and bike wasn't stolen or anything. I think he just got locked up for other charges and could get it to us.

Originally Posted by Nemesis

+1

Reading his/her initial post I was thinking man there's a lot of stuff that went wrong with this buy (buyer's end). Also no matter how good the price is (thinking that's what lured you in) if it's too good to be true...well, you know how the rest goes.

Btw, what's a BMV?

It wasn't too good to be true, the price was good and exactly what I wanted so I went after it? and your right its DMV not BMV sorry glad your making jokes when I'm trying to get this figured out, thanks

[bbjminardo]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Was that the 2011 MV Agusta for $700 on craiglist? I wanted to buy that too.

Haha no it wasnt

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by bbjminardo

It wasn't too good to be true, the price was good and exactly what I wanted so I went after it? and your right its DMV not BMV sorry glad your making jokes when I'm trying to get this figured out, thanks

Sometimes you gotta laugh at the situation otherwise you'll pop a vein in your eye. Which reminds me, a co-worker's friend always pops a vein in his eye when he throws up. So funny! LOL

[bdavison]

LOOK

All you have to do is get a bonded title. It costs around $100 bucks. Usually private companies do this, they issue a bonded title that will allow you to tag the bike.
Normally after a certain amount of time, the state DMV will change the bonded title into a actual title, provided there are no claims of lien on the bike.

[astricklin]

Originally Posted by bdavison

LOOK

All you have to do is get a bonded title. It costs around $100 bucks. Usually private companies do this, they issue a bonded title that will allow you to tag the bike.
Normally after a certain amount of time, the state DMV will change the bonded title into a actual title, provided there are no claims of lien on the bike.

This is probably your best route, but be aware that the person who holds the title can make a claim against it during the bond period and you either have to surrender the bond amount, the vehicle, or possibly both. Also you could run into legal trouble if this unsavory owner (we don't know why he is in jail, but would you trust a complete stranger who was in jail?) decides to report the bike stolen, this could happen today, tomorrow, or when he gets out of jail. If the bond period has not been completed and you do not have a clear title to the vehicle, you may be in for some legal troubles.
As others have said, NEVER buy a vehicle without a title.

[CC Cowboy]

Take the guy to court while he is in jail. At least you know where to find him. If he gets out you might not be able to track him down.

[NealWright]

Well, I haven't been on here much yet ... but, I'm another Hoosier. You stepped in it big. This is a painful process, and it's supposed to be painful! I wouldn't want some smuck writing himself a BOS for any of my vehicles either.

First of all ... you need to get a REAL bill of sale, or get your chicken-scratch note paper notarized. Indiana BMV Bill of Sale form: State Form 44237. At this point, I don't even think the BMV will accept another form of sale.

Let's hope you bought it in state, as out-of-state makes it even worse.

Past that, I'd strongly advise to sell the bike! I don't know what you paid, but a 50% loss will probably be less than you're going to lose getting it right. Offer it for a $1500 "track bike" + all your documents, and let it be someone else's headache.

If you have any desire to have a bike registered this summer ... I'd sell it, and get a replacement. Chances are slim of getting all the legwork done before the end of the year.

If you choose you're still in it ... first of all get the Bill of Sale corrected. If he was incarcerated, someone should be notarized as his "Power of Attorney". You need an original (blue ink) copy of his Power of Attorney, and they can sign all documents for him.

If he was living with his grandmother, there's a good chance she has his power of attorney ... Be VERY nice to her! You're trespassing on her property, and she has no obligation to help you at all. But, she might?

Your best bet is a Lost Title application ... unfortunately, not as easy as your cousin was letting on. You can fill out the form, forge the signature, all that ... and they're going to send the replacement title to his home address! Again, they're not going to hand out titles to any smuck with a note pad. If you can work this out, you're lucky!

If not ... the next two options are small claims court (more effort than the bike is worth) ... Or, I believe you could apply for a reconstruction title, but you'll have to resolve your BOS first. That's a frustrating process, and you'll be stuck with a salvage title, that might or might not be insurable.

Post up if you have further questions, but I've tried to give you some honest suggestions on how to proceed. If you're keeping it, post up again after you've got a proper BOS and have applied for the lost title. Thanks, Neal

[n4mwd]

Well it could be that the guy had every intention of giving you the title when it came in but got nabbed by the cops before it did.

Have your cop friend run the VIN and find out who is the registered owner. If its that guy, then he might have been telling the truth. Maybe go to his grandma's house, tell her that he applied for the title and that he might have gotten it in the mail. Ask her to give it to you.

As far as selling it as an untitled track bike. Don't expect to get much over $500 for it if you do. The only people who actually buy untitled bikes are people looking to strip them for parts. Those people are notoriously cheap.

[csmith12]

Nice post Neal, very helpful.

Let me offer yet another option. Keep it as your own track bike and sign up for a school!

[THE BIG SITT]

On a bright note, I'm in Indy, and am always looking for someone to ride with. Where are the three of you located?

[jpbear]

check your local state for getting 'abandoned property' titled. this allows towing companies etc to get titles for cars left with them. so you could try that route as well. you might need to wait an year or so before you could get a proper title.

other way is to get the DMV to give you the contact details of the original owner and get him/her to help you out.

[skilletmo]

Bonded title. Takes a couple hours at a tax office. Did it on my 4runner.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

+1

Reading his/her initial post I was thinking man there's a lot of stuff that went wrong with this buy (buyer's end). Also no matter how good the price is (thinking that's what lured you in) if it's too good to be true...well, you know how the rest goes.

Btw, what's a BMV?

In Indiana, it's the Bureau of Motor Vehicles (BMV) instead of Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).

I couldn't tell you why , but I can tell you that they are (at least where I'm at) an awful awful awful bunch of people. More so than any other "MV" I've dealt with.

[NealWright]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

I couldn't tell you why , but I can tell you that they are (at least where I'm at) an awful awful awful bunch of people.

Notice that "ask the BMV" is no where a suggestion:-)

Honestly, the only helpful BMV I've found was in Hope, IN ... probably the smallest branch in the state ... with 2 girls behind what looks like a kitchen counter. Beyond that, if it's anything outside their normal protocol instruction, they'll just tell you to go away, and follow the instructions!

You might get somewhere asking a police officer friend. While helpful, most are not going to know much about title transfers.

Thanks, Neal

[Lewis3845]

Originally Posted by THE BIG SITT

On a bright note, I'm in Indy, and am always looking for someone to ride with. Where are the three of you located?

I'm in Camby just right off of 67 before Mooresville.

[THE BIG SITT]

Not all BMVs are bad. The one here in Greenwod has a bunch of nice ladies working there, and I've heard good things about the one in Franklin.

Originally Posted by Lewis3845

I'm in Camby just right off of 67 before Mooresville.

Yeah I actually live in Greenwood to be precise. My wife and I thought about moving to Camby, but I got a job in Greenwood and she got a job in Franklin, so it would be like a step in the wrong direction lol.

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by THE BIG SITT

On a bright note, I'm in Indy, and am always looking for someone to ride with. Where are the three of you located?

I'm in Bloomington. Occasionally, I have to work up there in Indy so if you wanted we could meet up one of those days.

As of right now, I'm still waiting for my 636 to come in, but if you wanted, I could shoot you (or any one else) a PM next time I'll be around.

[me1islander]

Here in VT we don't need a title on bike 250cc and smaller to register it. Sell it on the VT Craigslist and take the money and buy something different .

[THE BIG SITT]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

I'm in Bloomington. Occasionally, I have to work up there in Indy so if you wanted we could meet up one of those days.

As of right now, I'm still waiting for my 636 to come in, but if you wanted, I could shoot you (or any one else) a PM next time I'll be around.

When you do, you gotta let me try the 636. Did you get to test ride it before? If so, how was it?

[NathanUc]

Originally Posted by THE BIG SITT

When you do, you gotta let me try the 636. Did you get to test ride it before? If so, how was it?

I test drove a whole slew of bikes before settling on the 636. From the 300r to a street triple r. I was planning to make a video explaining why I picked the 636 but I'll make a quick post in the ex-ninjette section (was going to wait until I had pictures).

EDIT: Posted, http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...459#post659459

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by NathanUc

I'm in Bloomington. Occasionally, I have to work up there in Indy so if you wanted we could meet up one of those days.

As of right now, I'm still waiting for my 636 to come in, but if you wanted, I could shoot you (or any one else) a PM next time I'll be around.

Good to know