nyc suv runs over bikers

[massacremasses]

repost?

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

repost?

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/217012.php

This witness disagrees with your frame shots and descriptions:
http://video.bostonherald.com/EXCLUS...c&VID=25226249

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This witness disagrees with your frame shots and descriptions:
http://video.bostonherald.com/EXCLUS...c&VID=25226249

Witness "I have 4 hours of video but I do not have time to look it" Very credible.

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by allanoue

last time you asked that the thread was closed a couple of posts later

Because I wasn't the only one who got tired of arguing w/o results. And because in that case argument devolved into opinions and emotions that have absolutely nothing to do with Ninjette.

I understand the point you and Sinister are trying to make, but I still think that intent is irrelevant to results. Throwing legal definitions, laws, etc. at me won't change my opinion because I have no respect for authority, I have respect only for rationality. Want to change my opinion - explain how different intent could've made any practical difference to people involved in the incident if their actions were still the same.

[GreenNinja]

Originally Posted by Motofool

This witness disagrees with your frame shots and descriptions:
http://video.bostonherald.com/EXCLUS...c&VID=25226249

The witness said that one of the motorcycles was slowing down all the other cars so they(motorcycles) can stay together. If I'm not mistaken, there are three lanes, so why are they fighting for road space? In my opinion the motorcycles could have taken over the furthest left lane without having to do traffic control. If the witness is credible, Alexian didn't like being told what to do by a group of motorcycles so he went to the middle lane and that led to these chain of events. That about sums it up?

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Witness "I have 4 hours of video but I do not have time to look it" Very credible.

as much as it sounds like bs, it could be true. he also mentioned a full time job (8 to 10hours), family, child ect..not too many people out there that have 4 hours to focus on video haha.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Aggrotech

as much as it sounds like bs, it could be true. he also mentioned a full time job (8 to 10hours), family, child ect..not too many people out there that have 4 hours to focus on video haha.

That plus how trivial this whole business has become

He only needs to look at the time stamp. It would take me like 10 minutes to look at that part of the video. The witness is a liar, plain and simple. Also why has the original rider who was bumped not step forward?

[LittleRedNinjette]

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

I'd change it to "do you see a difference" and post this $h!+ everywhere, nice job

[lgk]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Also why has the original rider who was bumped not step forward?

his lawyer probably told him not to do anything else stoopid and keep his mouth shut.

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

I'd change it to "do you see a difference" and post this $h!+ everywhere, nice job

lmao.

could you imagine all of the participants at ROC doing this? the line would go on for everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Motofool]

It has been revealed today that the window smasher was just attempting to get the identification of the motorist that hit his bike.
Reginald seems to have been under a lot of stress, being father of six and unemployed since 2011.



"Reginald (Reggie) Chance flips bird before arraignment in biker-SUV attack
The suspect was in Manhattan Criminal Court facing assault and gang assault charges in the brutal Sept. 29 beating of Alexian Lien. He flipped off reporters with both middle fingers moments before appearing in front of a judge.
..............
"We concede the criminal mischief. It's obvious he overreacted, but the law does permit someone who is victim of an accident to attempt to get the identification of the motorist, and my client obviously overreacted in that manner," said Chance's attorney, Gregory Watts."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...#ixzz2h2c4AeEY

[tfkrocks]

Yes, of course. Window smashing to ID the driver. Sounds legit That has nothing to do with the subsequent beating of the driver right?

[Aggrotech]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Yes, of course. Window smashing to ID the driver. Sounds legit That has nothing to do with the subsequent beating of the driver right?

RLY LEGIT.

he was trying to break the window so he could get the drivers wallet to get his ID/insurance information, duh!

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by GreenNinja

The witness said that one of the motorcycles was slowing down all the other cars so they(motorcycles) can stay together. If I'm not mistaken, there are three lanes, so why are they fighting for road space? In my opinion the motorcycles could have taken over the furthest left lane without having to do traffic control. If the witness is credible, Alexian didn't like being told what to do by a group of motorcycles so he went to the middle lane and that led to these chain of events. That about sums it up?

I bet he's got nothing significant to add except some more evidence of how the bikes were illegally impeding traffic and following too close/lane sharing and entrapping the other vehicles.

8 days later and the 1st rider who the SUV allegedly hit still has not filed an accident or police report? Why?

I'll take a guess or two and say...
He's got warrants and riding a stolen bike or
No license or insurance or
Mr SUV didn't hit him, he hit the SUV... may explain why the SUV's driver side mirror (glass) is broken in the video.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Motofool

.......................
"We concede the criminal mischief. It's obvious he overreacted, but the law does permit someone who is victim of an accident to attempt to get the identification of the motorist, and my client obviously overreacted in that manner," said Chance's attorney, Gregory Watts."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...#ixzz2h2c4AeEY

Gregory Watts and his client are both dumb asses.

"Earlier this year, Chance faced 25 years in prison, but got only community service under a deal approved by Judge Suzanne Mondo."

Chance — who has 21 prior arrests for charges ranging from drugs to robbery to gun possession — was ordered held in lieu $100,000 bond or $75,000 cash.

Records reveal junk justice left him free to raise hell after an April drug deal near a Brooklyn school. Chance had allegedly sold cocaine through a middleman to an undercover cop in Bed-Stuy. A warrant was later executed on an apartment Chance was in and turned up cocaine, pot and a loaded handgun.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/06/cops-bu...aulted-family/

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by tfkrocks

Yes, of course. Window smashing to ID the driver. Sounds legit That has nothing to do with the subsequent beating of the driver right?

It is pertinent to clarify that once Mr. Chance obtained proof of insurance from the motorist, he stepped away, not knowing what happened after that moment and not knowing the persons of interest involved in the beating and stabbing of the referred motorist (who may have had a pending issue with somebody else).


Rosalyn Ng (c.) holds her 2-year-old daughter after he husband is pummeled by a group of bikers on W. 178th St.


SUV bashed by bikers is towed to police garage as suspect Christopher Cruz is charged in court Friday.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

........... "Earlier this year, Chance faced 25 years in prison, but got only community service under a deal approved by Judge Suzanne Mondo." ............

Much better deal than being unemployed for two years, with no health attention and with six dependents.

No wonder Reggie was so mad of society, ....... 25 years released from those burdens and taxes and enjoying free lunch and prostate check ups !!!

[DaBlue1]

Biker beatdown was 6-on-1 attack


Robert Sims is the first biker arrested and charged in the brutal beating of Alexian Lien (inset)


As many as six bikers preyed on victim dad Alexian Lien, kicking him in the head even as he tried to crawl to safety, prosecutors said as the first of the accused fist-swingers, Robert Sims, 35, of Brooklyn, was arraigned in Manhattan Criminal Court Saturday night on charges of gang assault and felony assault.

Sims was identified on video and photographs by his distinctive black leather jacket, grey backpack, his helmet, which featured the number, “78,” and his grey and white sneakers — which prosecutors say Sims used to kick the cowering dad’s head and body.

“The defendant is clearly seen stomping on [Lien’s] head,” assistant district attorney Joshua Steinglass told Manhattan Criminal Court Judge Diana Boyar, who set a whopping $100,000 cash bail.

Sims — whose rap sheet includes a 2002 bust for car theft, and gun possession, drug possession and samauri sword possession in 1998, according to sources — has admitted he’s been caught on camera, the prosecutor said.

His lawyer, Luther Williams, insisted his client is innocent and said the bikers only went after Lien to prevent him from leaving the scene after striking one of the other bikers with his Rover.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/05/biker-beatdown-was-6-on-1-included-head-stomps/

[az3200]

Does anyone in that group not have a rap sheet? It's becoming more clear now why half of those bike don't have license plates on them.

[n4mwd]

I doubt any of us here were actually in that ride, so everything we say here is nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Did the bikers start it, or did the SUV? The people who actually know for a fact aren't talking. The videos only show part of it.

While it does appear that at least some of the bikers in that ride were asking for trouble, what bothers me is that this is a precedent that allows cagers to deliberately run over a biker if they are scared enough. From what I have been reading, the cops haven't even charged the SUV driver and don't appear to have any plans for it. So it looks like the driver is going to get off scott free.

The driver was beat up a little bit, but he only got a few stitches and was released from the hospital. That's a far cry from "beaten to a pulp" that some of the newspapers have been saying to sensationalize it. The biker that was run over will be in medical facilities for the rest of his life and the taxpayers will be paying for it.

I watched the video and it was clear that the cager gunned the engine with malice which resulted in a biker suffering a fate worse than death - permanent paralysis. He could have simply let the suv creep toward the biker which would give the biker time to get out of the way.

Around here, its already extremely rare for a cager to be charged for accidentally killing a biker, but it would be disastrous if they were allowed to intentionally do it, for any reason, and get away with it just by saying they were scared. Biking is already dangerous enough without this precedent that effectively makes it legal to kill any biker on the street for any reason.

I know some of you are saying that the biker deserved what he got. Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is that the cager was told what he did was OK which means that the next time YOU or someone you care about goes out for a ride, he could be right behind you, knowing that he has a right to kill you if he wants.

[moonwalker]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I doubt any of us here were actually in that ride, so everything we say here is nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Did the bikers start it, or did the SUV? The people who actually know for a fact aren't talking. The videos only show part of it.

While it does appear that at least some of the bikers in that ride were asking for trouble, what bothers me is that this is a precedent that allows cagers to deliberately run over a biker if they are scared enough. From what I have been reading, the cops haven't even charged the SUV driver and don't appear to have any plans for it. So it looks like the driver is going to get off scott free.

The driver was beat up a little bit, but he only got a few stitches and was released from the hospital. That's a far cry from "beaten to a pulp" that some of the newspapers have been saying to sensationalize it. The biker that was run over will be in medical facilities for the rest of his life and the taxpayers will be paying for it.

I watched the video and it was clear that the cager gunned the engine with malice which resulted in a biker suffering a fate worse than death - permanent paralysis. He could have simply let the suv creep toward the biker which would give the biker time to get out of the way.

Around here, its already extremely rare for a cager to be charged for accidentally killing a biker, but it would be disastrous if they were allowed to intentionally do it, for any reason, and get away with it just by saying they were scared. Biking is already dangerous enough without this precedent that effectively makes it legal to kill any biker on the street for any reason.

I know some of you are saying that the biker deserved what he got. Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is that the cager was told what he did was OK which means that the next time YOU or someone you care about goes out for a ride, he could be right behind you, knowing that he has a right to kill you if he wants.

Which is exactly the reason why I say that intention doesn't matter, actions do. Thank you for finding words I couldn't find to express what I think.

[ForceofWill]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I doubt any of us here were actually in that ride, so everything we say here is nothing but hearsay and conjecture. Did the bikers start it, or did the SUV? The people who actually know for a fact aren't talking. The videos only show part of it.

While it does appear that at least some of the bikers in that ride were asking for trouble, what bothers me is that this is a precedent that allows cagers to deliberately run over a biker if they are scared enough. From what I have been reading, the cops haven't even charged the SUV driver and don't appear to have any plans for it. So it looks like the driver is going to get off scott free.

The driver was beat up a little bit, but he only got a few stitches and was released from the hospital. That's a far cry from "beaten to a pulp" that some of the newspapers have been saying to sensationalize it. The biker that was run over will be in medical facilities for the rest of his life and the taxpayers will be paying for it.

I watched the video and it was clear that the cager gunned the engine with malice which resulted in a biker suffering a fate worse than death - permanent paralysis. He could have simply let the suv creep toward the biker which would give the biker time to get out of the way.

Around here, its already extremely rare for a cager to be charged for accidentally killing a biker, but it would be disastrous if they were allowed to intentionally do it, for any reason, and get away with it just by saying they were scared. Biking is already dangerous enough without this precedent that effectively makes it legal to kill any biker on the street for any reason.

I know some of you are saying that the biker deserved what he got. Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is that the cager was told what he did was OK which means that the next time YOU or someone you care about goes out for a ride, he could be right behind you, knowing that he has a right to kill you if he wants.

Lol. That's what you got out of all this? You could say that now about self defense. Someone could murder you and lie and say it was self defense to get off. Do you walk around in fear for your life from everyone because people use deadly force in self defense cases and there's now a precedent for people to just abuse Willy nilly?

How often do you see this happening?

[Panda]

Originally Posted by moonwalker

Which is exactly the reason why I say that intention doesn't matter, actions do. Thank you for finding words I couldn't find to express what I think.

Maybe intention doesn't matter to you. It does make a bit of difference in the eyes of the law though.

[tfkrocks]

Originally Posted by Panda

Maybe intention doesn't matter to you. It does make a bit of difference in the eyes of the law though.

Yep. It's why one can get in trouble for intending to murder someone. There's also different degrees of murder for that reason. Intentional vs. unintentional makes a huge difference.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

Lol. That's what you got out of all this? You could say that now about self defense. Someone could murder you and lie and say it was self defense to get off. Do you walk around in fear for your life from everyone because people use deadly force in self defense cases and there's now a precedent for people to just abuse Willy nilly?

How often do you see this happening?

was just about to say the exact same thing.

road rage is a danger that's been present ever since they figured out how to mount a cart to a horse. self defense is an issue as old as civilization itself.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

While it does appear that at least some of the bikers in that ride were asking for trouble, what bothers me is that this is a precedent that allows cagers to deliberately run over a biker if they are scared enough. From what I have been reading, the cops haven't even charged the SUV driver and don't appear to have any plans for it. So it looks like the driver is going to get off scott free.

The driver was beat up a little bit, but he only got a few stitches and was released from the hospital. That's a far cry from "beaten to a pulp" that some of the newspapers have been saying to sensationalize it. The biker that was run over will be in medical facilities for the rest of his life and the taxpayers will be paying for it.

I watched the video and it was clear that the cager gunned the engine with malice which resulted in a biker suffering a fate worse than death - permanent paralysis. He could have simply let the suv creep toward the biker which would give the biker time to get out of the way.

Around here, its already extremely rare for a cager to be charged for accidentally killing a biker, but it would be disastrous if they were allowed to intentionally do it, for any reason, and get away with it just by saying they were scared. Biking is already dangerous enough without this precedent that effectively makes it legal to kill any biker on the street for any reason.

I know some of you are saying that the biker deserved what he got. Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is that the cager was told what he did was OK which means that the next time YOU or someone you care about goes out for a ride, he could be right behind you, knowing that he has a right to kill you if he wants.

The only proper response to this.

[Trubin]

Originally Posted by jackliu239

I went back at 0:20 and I see driver side's mirror present.

the mirror itself, It doesn't look like there's a reflection
(0:09 of this video look like its better resolution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INfElroIKO0)

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ForceofWill

Lol. That's what you got out of all this? You could say that now about self defense. Someone could murder you and lie and say it was self defense to get off. Do you walk around in fear for your life from everyone because people use deadly force in self defense cases and there's now a precedent for people to just abuse Willy nilly?

How often do you see this happening?

You mean like the Trayvon Martin case? While there wasn't enough evidence to convict, there was enough publicized evidence to convince me that Martin didn't start it.

So yes, that's what I got out of it. If you didn't understand what this means for all bikers, then you missed the point entirely. Close your eyes, clear your mind and go for the deeper thought.

I fully understand that the thugs on wheels are not blameless either, but I also believe that the intent of the cager was to kill the biker and not just push him out of the way. That action shows the cager was angry, not scared.

[Trubin]

the mirror itself, It doesn't look like there's a reflection
(0:09 of this video look like its better resolution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INfElroIKO0)

My point is, IF no biker would have beaten him? would he face any charges?

[n4mwd]

Here is a good analog that is similar to the nyc events - only this time, the cops did the right thing.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/22004319765262/

Short version: Car runs over biker. Car flees the scene. Courageous and benevolent 3rd party cager (yes they really exist) follows bad guy in car and rips him out of the car and holds him to the concrete in a headlock until cops come to arrest, believe it or not, the guy who hit the biker - not the guy who yanked him out of the car.

See the similarities? See the differences?

[NevadaWolf]

This just got sent out via Twitter. Not sure if truly an AMA statement, but the message is right on.

http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/al...iz:queue_id%5D

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Here is a good analog that is similar to the nyc events - only this time, the cops did the right thing.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/22004319765262/

Short version: Car runs over biker. Car flees the scene. Courageous and benevolent 3rd party cager (yes they really exist) follows bad guy in car and rips him out of the car and holds him to the concrete in a headlock until cops come to arrest, believe it or not, the guy who hit the biker - not the guy who yanked him out of the car.

See the similarities? See the differences?

so different.


just stop.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Here is a good analog that is similar to the nyc events - only this time, the cops did the right thing.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/22004319765262/

Short version: Car runs over biker. Car flees the scene. Courageous and benevolent 3rd party cager (yes they really exist) follows bad guy in car and rips him out of the car and holds him to the concrete in a headlock until cops come to arrest, believe it or not, the guy who hit the biker - not the guy who yanked him out of the car.

See the similarities? See the differences?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The point is that the cager was told what he did was OK which means that the next time YOU or someone you care about goes out for a ride, he could be right behind you, knowing that he has a right to kill you if he wants.
.....................
Here is a good analog that is similar to the nyc events - only this time, the cops did the right thing.

http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/22004319765262/

That may be one of the unfortunate results of so much systematic abuse from criminals using the convenience and relative impunity of motorcycles and protective gear to do what they do.
Fueling the cagers paranoia, the practice has been published much and has even been glorified by the 12 O'Clock Boys documentary recently.

It seems to me that, being a perfect storm, this particular incident has given the media and some influential groups a golden opportunity to expose and try to control a problem that has been getting out of control and hurting their interests.

We may not see a great number of rednecks running over Ninjetters, but I am sure that several restrictive laws or regulations against groups of sport motorcycles in urban centers are going to see the light.

Dissecting this particular and confuse event is less interesting to those parts than using it as a excuse to please most tax payers (yes, we pay taxes, but we are only 27 million motorcyclists in America).



Good analogy, D; however, I am not sure that a regular Joe can go that far without getting himself into a nasty mess:

"Roxey and another man followed the driver to Sheridan Street near 26th Avenue. "I chased him. He got boxed in by a car, yanked him out of the car, I put him in a head lock and I just held him in the concrete. His partner came around to try to help him, I kicked him and he got away, and then I just held the guy until the cops came," he said."

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

so different.


just stop.

Oh, care to elaborate? Starting at the point where the cager hit the biker, where are the differences?

Ok, I will list the events I see...

1. FL: Good samaritan chases after hit and runner felon.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans chase after hit and runner felon.

2. FL: Good samaritan catches felon.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans catch felon.

3. FL: Good samaritian uses force to extract felon from SUV.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans use force to extract felon from SUV.

4. FL: Police arrive and arrest felon.
NYC: Police arrive and arrest good samaritans on any charge they can think of.

Except for #4, they are the same.

EDIT: Nevermind masercre, I see you are just trolling.

[Sinister]

Good samaritan bikers in the nyc incident....


Ladies and gentlemen, we have a celebrity on the forums! Everyone welcome
Ms. Gloria Allred!

[n4mwd]

Ok, enough of the trolls. Sinister and masecremasses, have you ever posted something without ridiculing someone?

Mascremasses -> Troll ignore list
Sinister -> Troll ignore list

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Oh, care to elaborate? Starting at the point where the cager hit the biker, where are the differences?

Ok, I will list the events I see...

1. FL: Good samaritan chases after hit and runner felon.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans chase after hit and runner felon.

2. FL: Good samaritan catches felon.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans catch felon.

3. FL: Good samaritian uses force to extract felon from SUV.
NYC: Numerous good samaritans use force to extract felon from SUV.

4. FL: Police arrive and arrest felon.
NYC: Police arrive and arrest good samaritans on any charge they can think of.

Except for #4, they are the same.

EDIT: Nevermind masercre, I see you are just trolling.

If that is what you saw you are headed for serious trouble with the law

[dfox]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

NYC: Numerous angry motorcycles wearing full face helmets and body armor intimidate and damage the car of someone who stopped following an accident. They then chase after man fleeing from a dangerous situation with his wife two year old daughter in the car..

Numerous extremely angry and otherwise menances to society use helmets as deadly weapons and continue to use force to extract frightened driver from SUV.and continue to drag him onto the ground, kicking and cutting him until TRUE good samaritans intervene and stop the bloodshed

fixed.