Is 250 enough?

OldCoot · July 29th, 2016, 08:10 AM

Opinions, please? You've probably been asked before, but here goes...

I've never ridden a Ninja. My last bike was a Suzuki Boulevard S50 (800cc, 475 lbs). It was plenty quick and nimble for this old coot. In fact, I had a few short races with my eldest son on his HD Dyna, and it kept up with his bike fairly well (except when we got to the Tail of the Dragon, where he really out-rode me and my pegs dragged the pavement). I'm not a great rider, but I wouldn't want to get a bike that's too slow/small. I like the idea of it being lightweight, but if my health holds up I might take a trip or two. I'm really getting old and my heart's pretty bad, but I don't want my next bike to ride like a lounge chair... I rode my HD Sportster 1200R from the East Coast to the Grand Canyon (and back) a few years ago and loved every minute of it... so a somewhat upright seating position and not getting totally blown off the road by cars and trucks would be good.

Tell what you think... and if you have any ideas about how to test ride one, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks,
OldCoot

Motofool · July 29th, 2016, 08:25 AM

OldCoot! Glad to have you aboard...

tgold · July 29th, 2016, 08:25 AM

Welcome OldCoot,

Well, I enjoy racing my 250 Ninja because it's a lot of fun racing against other relatively underpowered bikes. I really have a blast with it on the track, but if it were my only street ride, I'd probably look for something with a little more power and torque. The SV650N, the 650 Ninja, 500 Ninja and the CB500F all come to mind. Upright riding positions with a good bit more grunt.

Alex · July 29th, 2016, 08:31 AM

/moved to general

BDfromBC · July 29th, 2016, 08:31 AM

for the test ride, look for one at a gas station or anything, they are fairly cheap bikes, and if you put a little deposit or your wallet with motorcycle license in their hands, I'm sure they'll lets you sit on it/ drive around the block of they aren't in a hurry, I know I would... (As long as I seen that you could afford to fix something if you did screw it up kinda thing...

Now is it enough power?!
Well, it's enough power to move 375lbs no problem... With a top speed of about 160KM/h (I don't know miles, maybe 85 miles per hour? But where she really shines in the handling through the twisties...

If you want to save on insurance and fuel/maintenence these machines will do you fine for what you need...

If you feel a need to hit 200 on the highway for passes(km again) this won't work for you at all.

Can you get used to a sport bike? It is not really an upright seating position... It's a transition between upright, and sport... So if you feel like your back is gonna go sometime, or don't like "crunching" into a tuck then maybe they are not for someone of your age... They are definitely not a touring bike... Your arms will ache after an hour of buzzing on the highway from the vibrations unless you change up the gearing aswell, just some food for thought!

Oh, and chances are you would smoke that dyna on the tail of the dragon

(if that's all the "racing" you need it for, it will work

)

SLOWn60 · July 29th, 2016, 08:49 AM

Get a bike like a Suzuki SV 650. Not an SV650S
You'll want a bike with an upright seating position but not a cruiser position.

adouglas · July 29th, 2016, 08:50 AM

Whether it's enough depends on your expectations.

I drive an economy car (Honda Fit). The Ninjette performs about the same as that car, so that should give you a baseline. If you're used to, and expect, something more powerful in your wheeled transport, then you may find yourself wishing for more.

I now ride a GSX-R750, which is a whole different ball of wax. With the Ninjette, I'd have to plan passes and often it just was not possible to safely pass in time, just like in my car. On the Gixxer it's "Make it so" and I'm around anything in front of me in a heartbeat.

The Ninjette can hit 100 mph. It can't get there with breathtaking rapidity, but it will get there.

The bike can handle the highway. I did a 2600 mile tour on mine.

Because the bike makes little power, it rewards good riding technique and power management (keep up the momentum). That equals fun and challenge. You have to be good to go fast, because you can't rely on the bike to make up for your lack of skill.

Big pluses since, like me, you're getting older. The Ninjette is cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to operate and costs almost nothing to insure. My Gixxer makes five times the power and costs seven times as much to insure as the Ninjette did.

Tip: The bike makes all its power at high RPM and delivers very little torque. That means you have to change your riding style. Keep it up above 8-9000 rpm and it'll be a lot more fun. This isn't a stump-pulling low-rpm bike like your Boulevard. Worry not, the bike can handle that kind of RPM all day long. If you ride it like you rode that Suzuki (low rpm, short shifting, never winding it out), it'll behave like a scooter. If you ride it like ya stole it, it's an absolute hoot.

OldCoot · July 29th, 2016, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDfromBC

for the test ride, look for one at a gas station or anything, they are fairly cheap bikes, and if you put a little deposit or your wallet with motorcycle license in their hands, I'm sure they'll lets you sit on it/ drive around the block of they aren't in a hurry, I know I would... (As long as I seen that you could afford to fix something if you did screw it up kinda thing...

Now is it enough power?!
Well, it's enough power to move 375lbs no problem... With a top speed of about 160KM/h (I don't know miles, maybe 85 miles per hour? But where she really shines in the handling through the twisties...

If you want to save on insurance and fuel/maintenence these machines will do you fine for what you need...

If you feel a need to hit 200 on the highway for passes(km again) this won't work for you at all.

Can you get used to a sport bike? It is not really an upright seating position... It's a transition between upright, and sport... So if you feel like your back is gonna go sometime, or don't like "crunching" into a tuck then maybe they are not for someone of your age... They are definitely not a touring bike... Your arms will ache after an hour of buzzing on the highway from the vibrations unless you change up the gearing aswell, just some food for thought!

Oh, and chances are you would smoke that dyna on the tail of the dragon

(if that's all the "racing" you need it for, it will work

)

Thanks, BD.
I've never raced... just fooled around with my three sons on their bikes, so I don't need it to be very fast. I'm 67 and have congestive heart failure with only a few months left (my cardiologist says I should go on in-home hospice) but I need to get out while I still can. I'm not too worried about my back... although I'm a lot weaker than just a couple years ago. Do you think after-market risers would help much with the seating position?

OldCoot · July 29th, 2016, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adouglas

Whether it's enough depends on your expectations.
[snip]
The Ninjette is cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, cheap to operate and costs almost nothing to insure. My Gixxer makes five times the power and costs seven times as much to insure as the Ninjette did.

Tip: The bike makes all its power at high RPM and delivers very little torque. That means you have to change your riding style. Keep it up above 8-9000 rpm and it'll be a lot more fun. This isn't a stump-pulling low-rpm bike like your Boulevard. Worry not, the bike can handle that kind of RPM all day long. If you ride it like you rode that Suzuki (low rpm, short shifting, never winding it out), it'll behave like a scooter. If you ride it like ya stole it, it's an absolute hoot.

This is really helpful, adouglas. I like cheap a lot! And I'm sure there will be lots of times I'll need to ride it like a scooter, but it's nice to know it can be fun if/when I ride it like I stole it.
And heck, my son replaced his Dyna with a Multistrada and gotten even better at riding, so there's no chance of hanging with him anyway!

BDfromBC · July 29th, 2016, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Thanks, BD.
I've never raced... just fooled around with my three sons on their bikes, so I don't need it to be very fast. I'm 67 and have congestive heart failure with only a few months left (my cardiologist says I should go on in-home hospice) but I need to get out while I still can. I'm not too worried about my back... although I'm a lot weaker than just a couple years ago. Do you think after-market risers would help much with the seating position?

Honestly if the fact of the matter is you want to enjoy what time you have left... This bike will not only suffice,but will surpass your expectations of what a 250 can do., as well, you've also said you like the cheap aspect of it.

With the bars a little higher up, it does improve the seating position, you can also get a better padded seat, and a tall touring windscreen, and this bike will work wonders for squeezing whatever enjoyment you can out of your time on the road

you've got no one to compete with, and you just wanna enjoy some curves, then it's definitely a solid choice!

Triple Jim · July 29th, 2016, 09:26 AM

I've had a 1972 Kawasaki H2 (750 2-stroke) since 1978, and now have a Moto Guzzi 1000 as well. When I got my '05 Ninja 250 last summer, I got it registered and took it for a 40 or 50 mile ride. When I got back I told my riding friends that if I found out that the only motorcycle I could ever own for the rest of my life was the Ninja 250, I'd still be very happy riding. I'm quite upright on it compared to serious sport bikes. The only consideration would be if you have trouble bending your knees, because at 6'2", mine are pretty folded up on it. My knees don't mind the bending though. On the Dragon, a 250 has the capability of leaving the Dyna in the dust. In fact, with a really good rider on it, a 250 on the Dragon would be hard to keep up with on any bike.

NevadaWolf · July 29th, 2016, 09:30 AM

Is the 250 enough? Depends on your expectations and needs. For me, yes, it has been enough and still happily riding it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

I'm not a great rider, but I wouldn't want to get a bike that's too slow/small.
I like the idea of it being lightweight, but if my health holds up I might take a trip or two.
I'm really getting old and my heart's pretty bad, but I don't want my next bike to ride like a lounge chair...so a somewhat upright seating position and not getting totally blown off the road by cars and trucks would be good.

Slow/Small -

The Ninjette is small for a sport bike, but still has a high seat compared to a cruiser. If you are a physically larger person (taller, wider, longer, whatever) the 250 may feel cramped for you. Good news, there are risers and peg adjusters to help with the ergonomics. If you are a smaller person, there are lowering links also that will help make the bike comfortable and manageable for you. Check out this site to see how you would fit on the Ninja (or any other bike for that matter): http://cycle-ergo.com/

What do you define as "slow"? I've been all over this country and the only two times I've ever had trouble with the speed limit was 1) in Texas, but at 85 my gas mileage tanks so I rode slow intentionally and 2) in Colorado because a carb'd bike at 11,000' is going to struggle maintaining 65 no matter what. Even cars were struggling so hey, we were all going the same speed. The *only* speed complaint I have about the Ninja is when doing western interstate speeds, there is nothing left to do a quick pass around semis. As mentioned, you need to plan your passes.

Now, if you are the type to take the speed limit as a suggestion vs as hard and fast rule, then yes the Ninja is slow. It will not ever win in a race on a straight with a bigger bike. Takes too long to wind up to speed. Once you get up to speed, it'll stay there happily all day. Just don't expect it to be 0-100 in a blink.

Trips -

Our Ride Reports section is filled with folks taking the 250 out on trips, from weekend warriors to massive adventures lasting months (years?). Some are out on stock bikes, others are out on highly modified bikes. Most are on road journeys, a few decide to see what's off the beaten path. The Ninja is capable of handling almost anything you point it at. The key to trips is making yourself comfortable. Modify the bike so it fits you and whatever gear you want to carry, then make sure on your trip that you keep yourself comfortable (stop often, lots of water, food, rest, etc). I've been trying to do a major two week trip every summer along with minor trips "locally" throughout the rest of the year. For me, since I like exploring off pavement, the Ninja only lacks a high enough ground clearance for some real off roading (I'm sure folks like verboten and skippii will disagree with me there).

Upright position -

Okay, this one the Ninja does not have (IMO). While it is not tank hugging like the bigger sport bikes, now that I've sat on adventure bikes, I would not classify the Ninja as upright. I've even got risers on my bars and I've moved my pegs forward to help my knees, but I still lean forward when riding. If you've got long arms, you might be more upright that me but the Ninja is designed with a slight angle forward. Testing riding one in this case is going to be the best way to see if it is a comfortable position for you.

Wind -

I live in the Land Of Wind (so much so Mark Twain has a whole section of Roughin' It dedicated to our wind - http://www.twainquotes.com/Zephyr.html) so I've experienced everything from head winds, cross winds, tail winds, and turbulence from trucks and RVs. The Ninja will get blown around, but as long as you remain loose and look for the signs of direction changes or obstacles, you won't get blown off the road. I think the only time I've been forced into the other lane was when an invisible dust devil hit me - knocked me across the line then yanked me right back over.

jkv45 · July 29th, 2016, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Thanks, BD.
I've never raced... just fooled around with my three sons on their bikes, so I don't need it to be very fast. I'm 67 and have congestive heart failure with only a few months left (my cardiologist says I should go on in-home hospice) but I need to get out while I still can. I'm not too worried about my back... although I'm a lot weaker than just a couple years ago. Do you think after-market risers would help much with the seating position?

Sorry to hear that.

I'll second (or third) the SVn (naked) for you.

Upright riding position, good power, moderate weight, even gets good mileage (if that matters). It's pretty relaxed overall compared to a Ninja. No need to spin it up to get going if you don't want to, but it pulls pretty well from as low as 3000 RPMs.

I have 2 - an 2000 carbed model (know as a 1st Gen), and a 2006 F.I. model (known as a 2nd Gen). Both share the same basic engine and characteristics.

The "N" models have regular handlebars and a relaxed riding position. The "S" models have a half (later a full) fairing and lower bars. I like the position of the N better for us old guys on the street.

That's a practical choice, but personally I'd probably go nuts with an exotic like a Bimota if I could scrape up the money. Whatever you get, just go out and have fun.

OldCoot · July 29th, 2016, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkv45

Sorry to hear that.

I'll second (or third) the SVn (naked) for you.

Upright riding position, good power, moderate weight, even gets good mileage (if that matters). It's pretty relaxed overall compared to a Ninja. No need to spin it up to get going if you don't want to, but it pulls pretty well from as low as 3000 RPMs.

I have 2 - an 2000 carbed model (know as a 1st Gen), and a 2006 F.I. model (known as a 2nd Gen). Both share the same basic engine and characteristics.

The "N" models have regular handlebars and a relaxed riding position. The "S" models have a half (later a full) fairing and lower bars. I like the position of the N better for us old guys on the street.

That's a practical choice, but personally I'd probably go nuts with an exotic like a Bimota if I could scrape up the money. Whatever you get, just go out and have fun.

Thanks, JK.
I like the SVn idea, but do you think it would be harder for my sons to sell the SVn next year if I'm not around to ride it?
Also, when did Ninja switch to fuel injection? (That might be helpful in the mountains nearby.)

csmith12 · July 29th, 2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Thanks, JK.
I like the SVn idea, but do you think it would be harder for my sons to sell the SVn next year if I'm not around to ride it?
Also, when did Ninja switch to fuel injection? (That might be helpful in the mountains nearby.)

SV's hold their value very well. FI ninja's are 300cc's only (in US). And I got a 10 spot that says your sons will not be so quick to sell when your not riding anymore. I have another 10 spot that says you can beat the odds.

The very best of luck to you sir.

OldCoot · July 29th, 2016, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

SV's hold their value very well. FI ninja's are 300cc's only (in US). And I got a 10 spot that says your sons will not be so quick to sell when your not riding anymore. I have another 10 spot that says you can beat the odds.

The very best of luck to you sir.

Thanks, CS.
I'm definitely not going to bet against you.

AwDang · July 29th, 2016, 10:58 AM

Don't worry about carbs vs FI for the mountains. As long as it's tuned right the carbs will be fine.

choneofakind · July 29th, 2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwDang

Don't worry about carbs vs FI for the mountains. As long as it's tuned right the carbs will be fine.

But it gets off when you change 3000'+ of elevation at a time on a ride. Definitely a bonus to have fuel injection in this situation.

The carbs aren't the end of the world, but they're noticeably soupy as you go up if you're jetted for lower elevations. They work, but it's annoying and feels like a pig.

jkv45 · July 29th, 2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Thanks, JK.
I like the SVn idea, but do you think it would be harder for my sons to sell the SVn next year if I'm not around to ride it?
Also, when did Ninja switch to fuel injection? (That might be helpful in the mountains nearby.)

A good SV holds its value and is easy to sell.

When I'm gone my 2 boys will fight over who gets which one.

Get one - you'll like it.

Doctors don't have all the answers. Plenty of people have proven them wrong. So can you.

tgold · July 29th, 2016, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

Get a bike like a Suzuki SV 650. Not an SV650S
You'll want a bike with an upright seating position but not a cruiser position.

That is the SV650N model I mentioned.

alex.s · July 29th, 2016, 01:44 PM

is 250 enough

... for what?

enough to drag race a literbike? no

enough to go cross country? yes

enough to get you thrown in jail for going too fast? yes

enough to race. enough to kill you if you dont respect the road and the bike

Triple Jim · July 29th, 2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

...enough to drag race a literbike? no

Well said. That's about the only thing an EX250 isn't good at... drag racing faster vehicles.

mst · July 29th, 2016, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

and if you have any ideas about how to test ride one, I'd love to hear them.

Just sitting on different bikes in a showroom might be enough for you to decide which seating position you prefer.

I don't have a bike yet, but I've sat on various bikes at bike shows, etc, and being only a bit younger than you (60), with a weak back, I could tell I wouldn't enjoy the position on a sports bike for very long.

I haven't sat on a Ninja 250 /300 yet though, is it a much different seating position than the Honda 300 ?

verboten1 · July 29th, 2016, 08:20 PM

300 pounds and darn near 6 feet tall, my '08 was enough everything for my 2500 mile trip and daily commute

adouglas · July 30th, 2016, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mst

Just sitting on different bikes in a showroom might be enough for you to decide which seating position you prefer.

I haven't sat on a Ninja 250 /300 yet though, is it a much different seating position than the Honda 300 ?

Point the first: Sitting on a stationary bike doesn't fully replicate the riding position. This is more true of sportbikes than more upright bikes, however. My sportbike is markedly more comfortable while in motion because I'm able to scoot back, get low and relax my arms.

Point the second: Not much difference in the riding positions on any bike in this class. Honda 250/300, R3, Ninjette... they're all designed for the same purpose and are very similar.

VaFish · July 30th, 2016, 03:29 AM

Others have covered the bike pretty well. As for the Congestive Heart failure, my mother in law was diagnosed with it around the same age as you. She's 84 now and still pissing me off.

Go get a ninjette and enjoy it.

Lazarus · July 30th, 2016, 04:59 AM

250 is plenty for me but I enjoy it for the ability to ride the curves all day, the mpg if ridden like a scooter, and the overall agility and versatility of the bike.

Plus it's a fun little thing to mod and hunt for the redline with every so often lol. Sorry to read about your health.

OldCoot · July 30th, 2016, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaFish

Others have covered the bike pretty well. As for the Congestive Heart failure, my mother in law was diagnosed with it around the same age as you. She's 84 now and still pissing me off.

Go get a ninjette and enjoy it.

Wow, what an encouragement!!! Thanks!!

(I'd love to piss off my sons and grandkids for another 17 years!)

VaFish · July 30th, 2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Wow, what an encouragement!!! Thanks!!

(I'd love to piss off my sons and grandkids for another 17 years!)

I keep telling her only the good die young. She's gonna live forever.

InvisiBill · July 30th, 2016, 11:27 AM

A Ninja 500, SV650, or similar bike is closer in power to what you're used to. Not that a 250 is guaranteed to be not enough, but there is a pretty significant difference in power there. As others have stated, you might need to plan out passes and such more than on a bigger bike which has plenty of power on tap. I've seen various 0-60 times posted, but the 500 is 1/2 the time of the 250 in some of them, at least several seconds in all of them (and the 500 still has less horsepower than your S50).

I'm 6'0" with a 32" inseam, and I actually found that my thighs fit the tank area better on the 300 and R3 than they do on my 500. I need to move my pegs straight back (as opposed to the standard "up & back" plates I have) if I want to lock my legs under the tank lip. Engine size doesn't necessarily directly correlate to rider size/comfort. http://cycle-ergo.com/ will give you a rough idea of how you'll fit on a bike, and sitting on some at dealerships is a good way to check real-world fit.

Sinanju · July 30th, 2016, 04:48 PM

Hmm...250cc enough? Maybe if it was an MC16E...maybe

OldCoot · July 30th, 2016, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

A Ninja 500, SV650, or similar bike is closer in power to what you're used to....
[snip]
... I've seen various 0-60 times posted, but the 500 is 1/2 the time of the 250 in some of them, at least several seconds in all of them (and the 500 still has less horsepower than your S50).

Yeah, my S50 was plenty quick. A real sleeper. I think it was the low weight. I had a lot of fun on it.

I heard someone today (I think it was on the Velocity Channel) say you always regret selling what you had, and I definitely do, but I think this old body is ready to slow down and putz around... if I can just make it fairly comfy for goofing around town and maybe a long day trip (or a two- or three-day trip if I get the energy). Plus, the price is real important now. I don't want to spend the little bit of inheritance I have left for the family, so low-priced Ninjas and parts look pretty good.

InvisiBill · July 30th, 2016, 08:28 PM

Around here, 500s are actually cheaper than 250s. That's how I ended up on mine. I'm sure the appearance ('00s vs. '90s) is part of that, but the 500 seems to be a bit of a niche bike that gets skipped over, with people wanting to start out on a little 250, then jumping up to a big I4 600.

They don't have as much of an aftermarket, so you won't be able to spend as much on it afterwards. =) The upper fairing is one big, expensive, easy to break piece though. If you're looking for 500s, you'll find a ton of streetfighters.

Overall, the 500 and 250 are quite similar though.

OldCoot · July 31st, 2016, 08:05 PM

...might go look at it. What do you think?

It appears he lowered the price from $2500 to $2000...

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5675042074.html

BDfromBC · July 31st, 2016, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

...might go look at it. What do you think?

It appears he lowered the price from $2500 to $2000...

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5675042074.html

Send him a message for 1700, and it will be a good deal.

2000$ can bag you a 08-11 one (If you want a more up to date styling for the same price) he's clearly had no interest as he's already lowered 500 to try and snag someone's attention.

Trick with these bikes are that people price them high. All the time. Thinking some new rider will snag a beginner bike not caring about price *splurge* if you will...

Don't feel bad sending him a mail, and every other one you see posted, offering 300-800 less then what they are asking. (Depending on what's more relevant for the price of each bike)

AwDang · August 1st, 2016, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

...might go look at it. What do you think?

It appears he lowered the price from $2500 to $2000...

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5675042074.html

There are better options around

http://athensga.craigslist.org/mcy/5699728584.html

http://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/5708862877.html

http://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/5708844733.html

http://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/5703695109.html

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5706898499.html

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/mcy/5708531425.html

jkv45 · August 1st, 2016, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwDang

There are better options around

http://athensga.craigslist.org/mcy/5699728584.html

In that group I like the SV the best, but I would question why there are "spares" with it. Has it been crashed?

Most of the others have been dropped, and the owners are down-playing the severity of the damage (no detail photos) and the cost to repair. That's enough to make me pass. If they think cracks and scrapes are OK, don't effect the value much, or the replacement panels are cheap, they aren't going to knock enough off of the price to make it worthwhile. Always know what the book value is whenever you go to look at a bike. NADA is a better guide than KBB for a private party sale from what I've seen.

Plan on new tires with anything over 5yrs old unless they are fresh.

Skip the GS500E.

For reference, we just sold an immaculate 2004 Ninja 250 with low mileage and new tires for $2000, and bought an immaculate low mileage 2009 Ninja 500 for $2000.

Just needing to put new tires on, removing the wheels yourself, is going to be over $200 - so factor that in. Lots of rookies selling old bikes with low mileage don't think you need new tires because the original ones still have lots of tread. In reality, good tread depth doesn't mean squat. Any cycle tire more than about 5 yrs old has lost too much of it's original traction to be safe.