Trackday Cancelled....

[Jiggles]

So I got a call yesterday from Pacific Track Time that they were cancelling the Tuesday trackday. Super ****ing lame. They said they would give me a credit +$20 towards a future trackday instead of reimbursing my credit card. I was about to go put a dispute through paypal to get my money back but then decided to look at their schedule. One of the days I'd be able to go is to NRS for AFM

Is the NRS difficult to pass? It would be ****ing badass to get a race license and I'd likely sign up for a couple races next year when I'm a little faster (the goal would be to not come in last ) The NRS class would be 1 week after my 2 day track school at Laguna Seca with Keigwins so hopefully I'd have quite a bit of improvement in my riding.

Should I go for it or sign up for a boring old regular trackday later in the year?

[lilmitchy777]

i say go for it. anything is possible man. who knows what could happen when you start racing.

[csmith12]

As predicted.... hmmmm

DO ET!

[alex.s]

you pass NRS if you finish the mock race without crashing.


i believe in you jiglet.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by alex.s

you pass NRS if you finish the mock race without crashing.


i believe in you jiglet.

Well it says theres a written test, then track evaluation, then the mock race. So I was wondering if the written tests and track evaluations are very strict or what.

[rojoracing53]

The owner Mike is good friends with Dave Stanton who was hospitalized last weekend so that may have something to do with it. I would imagine most of the staff is not in the mood to ride after last Sunday.

[alex.s]

track eval is you ride in A group and the org makes sure you aren't retarded, know how to enter/exit/grid up. the test will be about flags.

[rojoracing53]

I hear the mock race uses a Toyota pace car for the warmup lap.

[csmith12]

If you can hold a line and not parade lap around the track, you can pass the eval.

[csmith12]

Oh, no swooping either, use only the track you need.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

The owner Mike is good friends with Dave Stanton who was hospitalized last weekend so that may have something to do with it. I would imagine most of the staff is not in the mood to ride after last Sunday.

Well they offered me the trackday monday but I can't go to it. He said something about the day ended up costing $106 per person and they couldn't do it

Originally Posted by alex.s

track eval is you ride in A group and the org makes sure you aren't retarded, know how to enter/exit/grid up. the test will be about flags.

A group oh noes!

[Gurk]

makes sure you aren't retarded

sorry jiggles

[choneofakind]

Do ettt!! Jiggles, formerly the no-BP newb with a cupholder, is soon to be Jiggles, the racer (always ending second-to-last, still with a cupholder)

[csmith12]

lol, that would be epic, to be beat by a rider with a cup holder. hahahhahahaha

[choneofakind]

Jiggs!!! You must keep the cupholder on the race bike.

[anacron]

do it!

Then pass and celebrate by mounting a 2nd cupholder.

[Jiggles]

I will fill my cup holder with victory beer

[CycleCam303]

Yea there is a lot of debate about that whole run everyone in a group for the nrs for afm licensing. It's just a little nerve racking according the folks on ninja 250s. My buddy Kyle, 2012 novice 600 everything champ with afm lol, suggested that I borrow a faster bike for the nrs. Not that you shouldn't do it at all. It's just a little more comfortable since usually on nrs days there is racing that weekend so everyone in a group is Jason fast on 600s and 1000s and they are going to be swarming you with 50+ mph speed differentials. Slightly off topic but I believe that's why Gary j and Jason both agree that 250s don't make the best track bikes. Awesome street bikes but unless you are racer fast your going to be a total moving cone on track. No offense to you jigs in anyway. Just giving you a heads up.

[anacron]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I will fill my cup holder with victory beer

But with two you can a) have two victory beers or b) help out a thirsty paddock girl

[CC Cowboy]

Jiggie, get the license. You were born to race.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Slightly off topic but I believe that's why Gary j and Jason both agree that 250s don't make the best track bikes. Awesome street bikes but unless you are racer fast your going to be a total moving cone on track.

Gary thought the 250 was a fantastic track bike to race. It was just in open trackdays where it felt a bit riskier. His 2008 got banged up pretty good when a faster bike / lesser rider asspacked him at Sonoma a few years ago.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Awesome street bikes but unless you are racer fast your going to be a total moving cone on track. No offense to you jigs in anyway. Just giving you a heads up.

As someone who has tracked my 250 and a gsxr 600, I disagree to a point. There is NOTHING cooler than improving your racing skills to a point where you can pass folks in a corner on your little bike. On one hand, you definitely have to be pickier regarding which tracks you spend your money on as some are designed for higher speeds. But there are plenty of tracks where you can have the time of your life on our 250s!

[rojoracing53]

If your passing people on a 250 wether it be on the brakes or during a turn you are simply passing riders less skilled then you. I don't care how you look at it the 250 brakes slower and corners slower then any modern day supersport. This whole farce about the 250s being better on the brakes and faster in the corners is a load of crap. But the fact is because its limits reflect most riders limits people will tend to be more comfortable pushing it farther because it better matches their abilities.

As much fun as it is to beat up on street riders and C-class racers on SS bikes while on a 250, its not as much fun as battling with people on similar bikes at a similar skill level.

Fast AMA pros don't regular trackdays so I enjoy riding the 250 because then at least I have someone to ride with, but I miss going 180mph and diving under someone on the brakes while drifting the rear wheel into the turn

[csmith12]

Jason; I said in various threads around ninjette

One day, I am gunna try to throw my 250 down like I do my R6 and go BOOM.

Sure enough.... it happened.

And this one just a few days ago

I figure, if I can get over the corner speed of an r-shizzle, the 250 shouldn't be so bad

I figured I would start a huge debate by replying to that one, so I let that sleeping dog lie. At least someone else knows where I am coming from.

As far as where to put 250's on a track day. Who cares what size bike they are on. If they are a C rider, they go in the C group, B's in the B group and so on. From the safety perspective, where are the experienced riders? What group can more safely handle speed differences between bikes that are 50+? Yea....

Now if you ask the paramedics, your gunna get a different answer.

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Jason; I said in various threads around ninjette



Sure enough.... it happened.

And this one just a few days ago


I figured I would start a huge debate by replying to that one, so I let that sleeping dog lie. At least someone else knows where I am coming from.

As far as where to put 250's on a track day. Who cares what size bike they are on. If they are a C rider, they go in the C group, B's in the B group and so on. From the safety perspective, where are the experienced riders? What group can more safely handle speed differences between bikes that are 50+? Yea....

Now if you ask the paramedics, your gunna get a different answer.

That's why in that video I posted yesterday you'll notice I try to always leave 2-3' of room between me and the edge of the track while on the straits and braking for the corners. I do this because sometime riders like myself going 20sec a lap faster on a 600-1000 while pull out of a draft and not see the slow ass 250 until its to late. If this happens their first instinct will be to dodge you buy picking a side and if you don't leave them an empty side to dive for then they may just pick you. This method is not full proof but you have to try what you can. Ill be honest, if there's a trackday being held the Friday before a race at that same track ill enter the 250 in the B group because on those days C=B, B=A, A=Race

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

Ill be honest, if there's a trackday being held the Friday before a race at that same track ill enter the 250 in the B group because on those days C=B, B=A, A=Race

Thanks for that. I had a sneaky suspicion that's how the trackday just before a race was. TTP Racing is having a half day before a Saturday race and I think I'll skip it now.

[csmith12]

Twilights are much the same way Teri. Mostly filled with die hard track riders. The pace can be somewhat faster.

[Jiggles]

So the NRS I want to do is actually on a Wednesday. Well it says tuesday wednesday but then only has the date for wednesday So most likely no races the following day lol. I could probably handle B group but A group yeesh, ah well, it'll be fun!

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Twilights are much the same way Teri. Mostly filled with die hard track riders. The pace can be somewhat faster.

Yeah, and I'm not there yet to play with the big boys. At best I'd be in the way, at worst I'd panic and cause a problem. The only open session I took part in it was the end of the day, only half the riders were out there, and I just fought the whole 30 minutes to keep a solid line so I didn't catch those passing me unawares.

One day, one day!

@Jiggles, I was wondering what group you were riding in with the times you were posting. My Dad times everyone while he's sitting trackside at RFR and usually the A group is in the two minute something laps. But I think RFR is a longer track now that I really look.

Congrats on getting towards moving into B!!

[Jiggles]

Well I used to do like around 3 minutes or over at tracks when I first started. The laptimes are going to be different for every track. But lets see I think at Sonoma I went from starting at the 2:50s to fastest lap 2:17 this past trackday.

[NevadaWolf]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Well I used to do like around 3 minutes or over at tracks when I first started. The laptimes are going to be different for every track. But lets see I think at Sonoma I went from starting at the 2:50s to fastest lap 2:17 this past trackday.

Excellent improvement.

I think my first times were around the 4:30 mark, with last month being reduced to 4:00. Fastest time I was told was 3:58.

Can't wait to hear how it goes with the NRS eval.

[KazMan]

If you have any questions about any of the tracks Jiggles, just give me a holler. I ain't the fastest guy, but I ain't the slowest either And my knowledge is wayyyy faster than my lap times

[CycleCam303]

Lost in translation. I never said riding a slow bike faster than less skilled people isn't fun. I was giving jiggles a heads up. I imagine doing an nrs on a race weekend would be nerve racking. They make the riders run in A group for a session. Here is some perspective.

Last afm round at Sonoma the ninja 250s were running 1:59-2:02s. 17 seconds faster than jiggles. These guys run in b group during practice.

Last afm round Chris siglin, Martin swarc, Joey pascarella, Bryce prince, the lauritzens, Dave Stanton, crap, Jeremy toye was out there that weekend. Those folks look like rojoracing53 at the track. They were running 1:39s to 1:45s. It's a technical track so the 600 and 1000s have similar times.

Manuel Hernandez is a novice 600 racer. @Jiggles he is the short guy on the silver r1 that rides with bigb on the mellow group rides. He is an extremely fast street rider that rides in A group on track days. His race times? 1:50s. Compared to seasoned club racers he is slow.

I had a rough morning so sorry if this came off harsh. The thing is people need to realize that the 250 is in fact a very very slow bike. It literally is one of the least capable bikes on track. Because it has such low abilities its a great bike to learn on because most riders can squeeze max performance out of them at lower speeds that are more comfortable.

When people pass big bikes on the slow bikes its a clear measurement that the 250 rider is more skilled. Period. @rojoracing53 used to run 1:28-1:29s on an R6 at Laguna seca. His best time on the ninja 250 was 1:50.7. Even with a 300 on supercorsas, you don't magically make up 30 seconds.

Which also goes to show how ridiculously capable a modern 600 is and that most riders really aren't getting nearly that much out of their machines.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by KazMan

If you have any questions about any of the tracks Jiggles, just give me a holler. I ain't the fastest guy, but I ain't the slowest either And my knowledge is wayyyy faster than my lap times

I just saw your results Eric. Haulin ass out there. Feel free to correct my assessment. Lol.

You probably don't remember me but I'm pretty sure we rode dirty bikes together at hollister. I was the little guy that test rode the lowered ktm 200 you had in your truck. I was the little guy on the 150r with Kyle, and Schindler.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by KazMan

If you have any questions about any of the tracks Jiggles, just give me a holler. I ain't the fastest guy, but I ain't the slowest either And my knowledge is wayyyy faster than my lap times

For sure man! If I'm ever as fast as the video you posted I'd consider myself extremely successful. In all honesty I don't think I'll ever be that fast, I just don't have quite enough time and money for that haha

[choneofakind]

I think the only way to put the 250 vs 600 debate to rest is to get Jason out on each bike on the same track with a way of recording his telemetry the whole way around on each bike. Mostly because I think that would be cool to look at, but also because it would be cool to look at

So Jason, step to it!

[KazMan]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

I just saw your results Eric. Haulin ass out there. Feel free to correct my assessment. Lol.

You probably don't remember me but I'm pretty sure we rode dirty bikes together at hollister. I was the little guy that test rode the lowered ktm 200 you had in your truck. I was the little guy on the 150r with Kyle, and Schindler.

Hi Cam, haha thanks for the kind words. I would have never thought I would meet you in ninjette and no correction needed. That's your assessment And I do remember you from that day over a year ago! Was a fun day for sure.

My perspective is a bit different as I am a control rider/instructor and perhaps also because I ride a 250 and a 600.

C group in regards to time is the slowest. But there's several reasons for this. Some just want to cruise and some are learning the track on their ascent up the group ladder. As a competent rider on my 250 and 600, I find that often times C group provides me the most open track so I can string along a series of turns in a section of track. However, at some point, I typically will run into the group where everyone is as they are being courteous to wait for that outside pass with lots of room and have not yet figured out how to time their pass to happen on the exit onto the straight away which for our organization (Z2) can be on either side.

B group is sometimes the most difficult session for me with the 250 because you have the widest margin of skill and laptimes. You have some that are almost ready for A group all the way to those who just made the jump from C group. The riders are typically more spread out so stringing a section together unimpeded can be difficult. On my 250, you also now add those that can competently get through the corners but since you just passed them, they use the horsepower of their 600, 1000 or big twin, to drag race you and beat you to the next corner in which you then again, use the corner speed to go back around them and this plays out on each straight and each turn. Of course you have the guy on the big bike saying the 250 is a danger on the straights and the rider on the250 saying the guy is parking his big bike in the corners

A group. I can ride my 250 there and it's ok, but it really is at a disadvantage. HOWEVER, in regards to the NRS, you are typically ok in A group as this group of riders is very competent and have their bikes under control. They also have the ability to see the track with a wider field of view and will see that you are 1) on a 250 and 2) see that you are wearing something that signifies you are doing an NRS. And therefore, work around you to continue their lap while allowing you to take your NRS without complaining. For the 250 rider, all they have to do is maintain a consistent line and stay on that line and they should be able to pass the NRS as well as not have it become an issue with the A group. The NRS folks are also all in the same group so that classroom and ontrack, all stay together for the NRS students which maximizes the instructors and students time while allowing for hydration and refueling time.

So as a 250 pilot, I personally don't have an issue with any of the groups. I can only go a certain speed (lap time) and I factor in which group I am riding in and prepare to accept those conditions.

Bottom line. I also appreciate that I am at a track day and my main goal is to have fun! I have my race weekends to get all worried about my lap times and how I am riding. My bonus to track days, is I am also an instructor so I get a kick out of helping people. Whether it just be something to help them become more efficient in their riding styles or dropping 4 seconds off their personal best, I get a lot of pleasure of helping people get what they want out of their track day and just want to go home and sign up for our next one because it is FUN and SAFER than carving canyons or splitting lanes

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I think the only way to put the 250 vs 600 debate to rest is to get Jason out on each bike on the same track with a way of recording his telemetry the whole way around on each bike. Mostly because I think that would be cool to look at, but also because it would be cool to look at

So Jason, step to it!

Uh did you not see the first time riding a real bike in over a year thread

Of course I'm only 9 seconds off my R6 lap times but I'd say that's not to bad considering I just hopped on for the first time ever and rode a bike not setup for me.

So the difference between the 250 and 636 at Laguna was 13 seconds but I was at the limit of the 250 after two days compared to just scratching the surface of what the 636 would have done with 2-3 more sessions.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

So the difference between the 250 and 636 at Laguna was 13 seconds but I was at the limit of the 250 after two days compared to just scratching the surface of what the 636 would have done with 2-3 more sessions.

Saw that

But I'd want to compare entrance/apex/exit speeds rather than just times. That takes the straights out of the equation. We all know that straights will be slower on a bike with 30 hp.

Say you can get more time on the 636 and bring that difference up to a 20 second lead over the 250 lap times. How much of that is the straights and how much of that is late braking/higher corner speeds?

I'm not arguing that super sport is a faster bike on a track; that's what it's designed for. But I'm curious how much of that time difference comes from each part of the track, and if entry and apex speed difference is raw rider skill or if it's rider skill that's amplified by more/less capable equipment.

You get what I'm saying?

[rojoracing53]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Saw that

But I'd want to compare entrance/apex/exit speeds rather than just times. That takes the straights out of the equation. We all know that straights will be slower on a bike with 30 hp.

Say you can get more time on the 636 and bring that difference up to a 20 second lead over the 250 lap times. How much of that is the straights and how much of that is late braking/higher corner speeds?

I'm not arguing that super sport is a faster bike on a track; that's what it's designed for. But I'm curious how much of that time difference comes from each part of the track, and if entry and apex speed difference is raw rider skill or if it's rider skill that's amplified by more/less capable equipment.

You get what I'm saying?

Thinking............................