another touchy subject (pot)

[chalk]

If it were legalized we could be certain of what we were consuming. Instead of taking the word of your local drug dealer it would be regulated and taxed under law.
The gateway drug argument is moot, going by this odd logic we could say coca-cola was a gateway drug to heroin, as I' sure most heroin user's have drank that crap at some point in their lives.
The bottom line is: it's a plant that grows out of the ground and has been consumed since time immemorial, the government has no right to criminalize decent taxpayers who just want to toke after their day's responsibilities are done.
+1 for decriminalization

[ally99]

Wow, the poll results are interesting! :-)

[Sailariel]

Paulette, I share your concern. This is a very complicated issue fraught with a myriad of interests that feverishly lobby our legislators for their own particular agendas. This will go on for quite some time. When this issue is solved is anybody's guess. Hopefully, some legislators can bring this issue Centre Stage. I can't say that I am terribly optimistic in that regard. Certainly there are some hidden agendas in Washington that we are not aware of--our government is not always transpearant when it comes to deals they endorse. My suspicion is that at some point our legislstors will be forced to act. How they will vote is anybody's guess.

[Snake]

Another great thread by Blackwidow. Man I miss her posts.

[rasta]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[corksil]

Hey did anyone watch the game?

[Snake]

I think that slowly but surely, state by state, marihuana will be legal across the nation.

[corksil]

People who smoke pot believe in conspiracies. There is no denying that fact.

If you smoke occasionally, maybe you believe that the JFK assassination was a hoax... maybe you believe that politicians take bribes from constituents they represent...

If you smoke frequently, you believe in chemtrails, flouride being added to toothpaste for purposes of mind control... you believe we never landed on the moon...

If you smoke quite frequently, you believe 9/11 was an inside job, that aliens exist and are watching our planet, you believe that the government is all a secret military that is taking over the planet...

And if you smoke excessively, you believe that shapeshifting reptillian multidimensional beings exist among us, and inhabit the forms of political figures to instill global mind control upon humanity for purposes of enslavement, you believe that there are massive organ-harvesting industries in third world countries, you believe that you can travel through time, you believe that the cia is watchin you and the nsa is recording your phone calls.

THEY'RE COMING MAN THEY'RE COMING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

[allanoue]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[corksil]

In an alternate reality where someone such as myself were to smoke cannabis in a situation that was perfectly legal and morally correct...

He inhaled smoke for the first time ever, exhaled smoked for the first time ever, sat in silence for approximately 4 minutes staring at the wall..... and then he opened his mouth and mumbled, quite simply "I. feel. dumber."

Then he sat in silence for another 20 minutes before he turned on a scary movie and began giggling uncontrollably.

[dcj13]

It's not that touchy a subject in Washington (or Colorado).

[corksil]

Someone has a personal vendetta to thumbs-down erry single one of my posts.

Whoever you are, can't we just be friends? Do you need a hug? Do you want to pet my cat until you feel better?

[Alex]

Pull down the quick links to "my helpful answers", and all of the votes are listed.

[corksil]

So Alex.s is the fellow with the pro-weed agenda who has been down-voting my questionably opposable viewpoints!

I should have known all along!

lol I am not pro/anti drug. I believe ppl should do w/e they please as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

[Sirref]

Legalize for two reasons

we shouldn't waste police funding and attention on victim-less crimes
take away an illegal market and the gangs are the ones who suffer not the people

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Sirref

we shouldn't waste police funding and attention on victim-less crimes

Like pulling responsible drivers over for speeding and having a system set up to almost make one plead guilty. Police would rather stick with "easy" cases like ticketing traffic or busting marijuana users.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by ally99

Like pulling responsible drivers over for speeding and having a system set up to almost make one plead guilty. Police would rather stick with "easy" cases like ticketing traffic or busting marijuana users.

Yup, they're just riding that gravy train

[corksil]

If it's worth money, tax it. If it moves, regulate it. If you can't regulate it or tax it, prohibit it and profit from that.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by corksil

If it's worth money, tax it. If it moves, regulate it. If you can't regulate it or tax it, prohibit it and profit from that.

Amen to that. It's always about the money.

State of Washington doesn't do the federal government's bidding (arresting and prosecuting) for one ounce or less. And I want the state to collect tax revenue from pot sales.

[Rifleman]

one of the biggest problems with "taxing the hell" out of it, is that it has been illegal for so long and so many domestic and individual producers exist.

Does anyone grow their own tobacco, distill their own gin... yes i'm sure there are a few but most people just pay the high (and getting higher) tax and go about their business. With cannabis, the black market and DIY people are sooo adept that a 20 - 200% tax on something you can literally grow in a flower pot in your kitchen, will not be tolerated. The product itself is $1.00 an ounce. Production, packaging, distribution may raise that to 5 - 10... if you are going to tax the crap out of it... people will (continue) to grow it themselves at zero tax...

suddenly we are back to raiding homes and searching people and vehicles, not because the product is illegal, but because the tax hasn't been paid...

remember the feds who broke up moonshine stills were not called police, they were "revenuers", the liquor was legal, the fact that you didn't pay the tax made it illegal...


the base of this argument is the fight between freedom and government... the idea that we as free citizens should be able to do what we want... and that government sees that as a "problem"

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

The product itself is $1.00 an ounce.

can i get your phone number plz... :P :P lol

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

Does anyone grow their own tobacco, distill their own gin... yes i'm sure there are a few but most people just pay the high (and getting higher) tax and go about their business. With cannabis, the black market and DIY people are sooo adept that a 20 - 200% tax on something you can literally grow in a flower pot in your kitchen, will not be tolerated. The product itself is $1.00 an ounce. Production, packaging, distribution may raise that to 5 - 10... if you are going to tax the crap out of it... people will (continue) to grow it themselves at zero tax...

Maybe, but I'd suggest a different analogy. iTunes rules the music industry, and a combination of it and Netflix are on their way to rule the movie industry, even though the cost of both services is significantly above what people can get the same product for, if they choose to break some laws to get it (free, by downloading the same content a million different ways). Even with that competitive price of zero, those paid businesses are making huge dollars by providing a product that is high quality, easy, and trusted. They didn't win by being as cheap as Napster, they won by having a damn good product that was good enough for people to choose to pay for instead of getting it for free.

If there ever were a time where it was just as easy to go to the corner store and buy high quality mj for a price that is 20% above what can be had at the black market today, I'd posit that the vast majority would slowly but surely migrate over to that distribution channel. This isn't purely academic; it would be interesting to get the thoughts of those who are competing with the legit sources in Colorado and Washington right now.

[corksil]

Posit... assume as fact. Learned a new word today.

[corksil]

I'd posit that it's most effective when you hold it until your eyes bleed. With just one puff, you can revert back to the mind state of a prehistorical neandrethal human.

66 million years of evolution. Gone. Then you watch cartoons and giggle because 66 million years ago, we didn't have that technology in our caves.

[rasta]

Originally Posted by Alex

Maybe, but I'd suggest a different analogy. iTunes rules the music industry, and a combination of it and Netflix are on their way to rule the movie industry, even though the cost of both services is significantly above what people can get the same product for, if they choose to break some laws to get it (free, by downloading the same content a million different ways). Even with that competitive price of zero, those paid businesses are making huge dollars by providing a product that is high quality, easy, and trusted. They didn't win by being as cheap as Napster, they won by having a damn good product that was good enough for people to choose to pay for instead of getting it for free.

In this analogy, isn't growing pot plants in my basement (this is strictly hypothetical) equivalent to online piracy? And piracy is a huge problem for the entertainment industries...

[rasta]

Originally Posted by corksil

I'd posit that it's most effective when you hold it until your eyes bleed. With just one puff, you can revert back to the mind state of a prehistorical neandrethal human.

66 million years of evolution. Gone. Then you watch cartoons and giggle because 66 million years ago, we didn't have that technology in our caves.

You have either smoked way too much weed or have never smoked weed in your life. I can't tell which one

[Alex]

Originally Posted by rasta

In this analogy, isn't growing pot plants in my basement (this is strictly hypothetical) equivalent to online piracy? And piracy is a huge problem for the entertainment industries...

Perhaps, but it's a debatable point that piracy is a huge problem (economically) for the entertainment industries. RIAA and MPAA aren't exactly trusted sources on the actual economic damage that existing piracy is causing, or even the more important calculation: how much more money they'd actually make if piracy were somehow completely prevented immediately. (zero? Billions?)

A more telling data point for me is that Apple is/was as controlling via DRM for all of their content not so many years ago. They made the consious decision to drop the whole DRM idea as they increased the quality of their music encoding. All of the content become way, way easier to share with anyone and pirate with limited consequences, yet they still made that conscious choice believing that they would make more money by happier users buying more. Yes, the movies are still DRM-heavy right now, but it's certainly feasible that they'd come to the same conclusion as their music a few years if that anti-piracy tech is preventing people from using the movies as they'd want, and keeping actual (not hypothetical) sales lower than they might be otherwise. It still might be slower to get to that point, as all forms of digital video (DVD, Blu-ray, Netflix, iTunes, etc.) all have had DRM built-in from the beginning, so people are generally more comfortable with the existing restrictions.

[corksil]

^^^ why is the guy in your avatar having a seizure?

The alex guy posted a viewpoint almost perfectly in opposition to mine.

He claims that netflix is a worthy service, a nice way to watch modern films for a decent price. I, however, will be the first to state my grievances.

Four days ago, I signed up for netflix. They agreed to give me one free month at the start of my subscription. After that, they would bill me 8 bucks a month automatically.

I figured that was cool, so I accepted the terms of use and signed up for that isht.

The first movie I searched for was jurrasic park. It came up as "not found" and I called customer service. They said jurrasic park was only available via DVD service, and I had to expect an 8 day wait time before I could watch jurrasic park. With an additional 8 dollars per month.

At that point I was rather irritated but I forgot to cancel my service because according to the agreement, they won't bill me for another few days and wait, what were we talking about?

[Alex]

Buyer beware. It's not $8/month to watch any movie ever made. It's just access to a relatively limited streaming library. It's in all of the conditions when you sign up, and is relatively common knowledge. The DVD inventory is orders of magnitude larger than what they make available via streaming. That said, the streaming of TV shows has been a godsend for the little monsters, allowing them to watch any of literally thousands of episodes of all the silly kid stuff that they might be interested in (power rangers, ninja turtles, and a bunch of lesser known series).

Sites like these help make the current streaming inventory transparent:

http://netflixusacompletelist.blogspot.com/
http://www.canistream.it/
http://instantwatcher.com/

[Singh2jz]

Those nice summer nights with fresh air making its way through my window have decreased.

[Rifleman]

oh, I agree, don't get me wrong, it is, of course a bell curve... at one end zero tax revenue and everyone purchasing from a grower... on the other end, zero tax revenue and everyone growing them self or purchasing on the black market.

some place in the middle is where the most people will purchase via taxed sources and revenue will be it's max...

my point is that because prohibition has pushed so many to the "untaxed" sources for so long... that the "top" of the bell curve may well be significantly below what it might have been...

those who see "legal pot" as some infinite cash cow... are the very same people who think outlawing pot was the correct course of action in the first place.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by midknight

Ok, so I have to be the first to disagree. I do not believe it should be legal. I know that marijuana is a gateway drug, I have family members that started on it and have moved on to other drugs and received major jail time from their actions. I also know how it impairs senses (yes I rebelled a little in high school) and I do not see how it is beneficial. I know I disagree with people on this subject but I think it can lead to bigger issues and people pushing for other narcotics to be legalized for recreational use. Just my .02 hope nobody hates me for my opinion...

Oxygen is the gateway drug actually... If you didn't start on the air, you wouldn't get to the cracked cocaine

[InvisiBill]

I've tried it a few times, but it doesn't really do much for me, so it's not something that I personally have a desire to do.

But as long as you're not hurting anybody else, I feel you should be free to do pretty much whatever you want. I think it should be legal like alcohol and cigarettes. As long as you're not hurting anybody, go for it. But have restrictions in place to keep others safe from the stoners (driving, public places, etc.).

I agree that a lot of the problems associated with it are caused simply by the fact that it's illegal. I think that legalizing it would make it nearly impossible for it to remain profitable on the black market (think alcohol and cigarettes in the current market). If it comes down to tracking down some shady guy in a bad part of town to save a bit of money over just picking some up while they're at the store, I think I know what most people will do. Throw in regulations concerning quality, processing, etc. and it might not even be legal for a lot of the current dealers to sell it anymore.

I think it's on par with cigarettes and alcohol, so the vast difference in legality seems very arbitrary to me. No, you can't go around smoking or drinking anywhere at any time, and I wouldn't have a problem with weed being the same way. But many people can grab a drink with their lunch, then go back to work for the afternoon. Our work schedules include breaks specifically so people can go outside and feed their nicotine addictions. Comparatively, I don't know why it's so horrible for someone to smoke a joint on the weekend when it has absolutely no effect on their workday during the week.

I do believe that there will be a spike in issues if it's legalized. You will have some number of people who simply won't touch it currently because it's illegal, but would try it if it were legal. Some people will go crazy with it when it's legalized. You're simply going to have some problems right when the status first changes, just because it's a big change (just like changing the drinking age). Then everyone will get used to it, and it'll fall back down to normal levels, and probably get rid of a lot of problems that were caused by the illegality.


On a related note, aren't employer drug tests kind of cheating? I mean, if they can't tell that you're on drugs, is it really that big a deal?

[corksil]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

oh, I agree, don't get me wrong, it is, of course a bell curve... at one end zero tax revenue and everyone purchasing from a grower... on the other end, zero tax revenue and everyone growing them self or purchasing on the black market.

some place in the middle is where the most people will purchase via taxed sources and revenue will be it's max...

my point is that because prohibition has pushed so many to the "untaxed" sources for so long... that the "top" of the bell curve may well be significantly below what it might have been...

those who see "legal pot" as some infinite cash cow... are the very same people who think outlawing pot was the correct course of action in the first place.

True. Making it legal will vastly lower the underground market value. Simple economics.

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

Oxygen is the gateway drug actually... If you didn't start on the air, you wouldn't get to the cracked cocaine

Oxygen is killing us the same as it is keeping us alive.

He may be the guy who 'gets high on life' -- but the rest of us need something a little stronger. Pharmacology.

Originally Posted by alex.s

are cigarettes or alcohol gateway drugs? what about zoloft? after you start taking xanax you want your doctor to fix everything with a drug. but nobody talks about those do they.

do you know how many people have died because of xanax?

Perdue pharmaceuticals -- the company responsible for the manufacture of oxycontin, were fined 614 billion dollars as a result of a class action lawsuit by consumers claiming their product destroyed lives.

They did NOT go bankrupt, and are making it to this day. Money is power.

Did you know that the division of wealth in this country is roughly 400:the-rest-of-us?

That is to say that 400 people own 50% of the 'wealth' -- and the entire rest of the american population makes up the other half.

When will it be my turn?

[JohnnyBravo]

Link to original page on YouTube.