August 15th, 2009, 11:11 AM | #41 | |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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Quote:
Also, if I break and don't use my clutch, will I stall? I've been to wary to try lol. I've heard that using the clutch to often is bad. Should you always pull in the clutch when breaking (even if your going down hill around a turn...I heard pulling the clutch in on turns is bad also)?
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August 17th, 2009, 05:43 PM | #42 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
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If you brake and don't use the clutch, you will eventually stall, yes...if you reach a low enough speed. There is a certain engine speed at which point the engine will stall. The engine will sputter and bog first, so you'll know it's coming. As the engine starts slowing toward this "bog zone", you want to downshift. Keeping the engine in its best rpm range will not only be good for the engine, but it will make you a smoother rider. For a new rider, smooth is very important from a safety standpoint. I put it right up there with aware and visible.
Also, with smoothness comes confidence. Confidence leads to relaxation, which leads to better technique, which leads to more confidence, etc. |
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August 17th, 2009, 05:56 PM | #43 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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That's what I was wondering. If I want to keep my breaks in to go around a turn that spirals downhill I want to know what gear I should be in instead of pulling in the clutch and hoping for the best when I need gas. And Breaking before the turn is done but when you're going down hill well, you don't have much of a choice then to break through it as well.
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August 17th, 2009, 06:31 PM | #44 |
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In that sort of situation you actually want to use the engine to help slow you down on the down slope. Practice on judging what gear you can safely downshift to at different speeds without it having a severe deceleration. Learning that will help you figure out what gear at what speed to be in to help you maintain your speed in a down hill curve.
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August 17th, 2009, 07:23 PM | #45 |
Bike Thrasher
Name: JaeL
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Didn't they go over this stuff in the MS course?
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August 17th, 2009, 07:42 PM | #46 |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
Name: Mike
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Maybe she didn't take it yet? Or maybe her instructors weren't that thorough? Perhaps they did and she just forgot? Lord knows I don't remember every detail taught in the MSF course I took. I remember the majority of it that helps keep me safe.
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August 18th, 2009, 03:55 AM | #47 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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I didn't learn about engine breaking at all...Just to stay in gear around turns and there were no hills. Just a parking lot so it was rather easy. I asked him a couple questions about hills and he said 'there wasn't enough time to cover it today' I heard about engine breaking from a friend but it didn't really click that I should use it that way. I have no idea why I didn't think of that before, thanks!
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August 18th, 2009, 05:32 AM | #48 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
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Terri-Lynn, Sombo is dead-on about engine braking (hopefully you're not doing too much engine breaking, lol). A good general rule in this situation is that being a bit higher in the rpm range is better than being a little too low. If you have revs to work with, you can use them for engine braking or normal braking (either way, the revs will drop some), and then your engine will still be responsive when you need it to be - for exiting the corner (or that emergency lane change/acceleration to avoid an idiot).
A good way to practice engine braking is either: a) in a parking lot, or b) when you are slowing down for a stoplight/sign in a low traffic situation. Start out at speed, then close the throttle, and let the bike decelerate. Once the engine starts getting low in the range (but before it starts to sputter/bog), downshift. Stay off the throttle, just let the clutch out easy, and see where the revs take you and how much the bike slows. As much as you can, use your ears to judge the rpms. As you let off the clutch, the revs will rise, then start slowing again. Repeat this process until you're into 1st or 2nd gear, then stop normally. Once you get some practice with this, you may (or may not) find yourself using just a little throttle on your downshifts to match the revs perfectly. This can make your downshifts smoother, depending on what rpm you are when you downshift, your speed, etc. Practice is the best teacher here. |
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August 18th, 2009, 07:01 AM | #49 |
Giggity Giggity
Name: Ryam
Location: San Diego
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Terri-Lynn I dont like to explain things in technical jargon, but your bike will sing to you and eventually with more time with her/him; things like when to shift, break/engine break will become second nature...Listen and feel the bike and you will enjoy the ride a lot more.
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August 18th, 2009, 07:17 AM | #50 | |
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Name: Z
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Quote:
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August 18th, 2009, 07:23 AM | #51 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Z
Location: Long Island, NY
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On a car, not using engine breaking for going down a big mountain will warp your rotors and burn through brakes pretty quick (This includes automatics, thats what 3,2,1 are for). Not sure how the heat dissipation is on a bike.
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August 18th, 2009, 09:37 PM | #52 |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
Name: Mike
Location: Windermere, FL
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Well for starters the heat dissipation on bikes is vastly better thanks to the rotors being completely out in the open with 100% of the wind flowing over them. That alone is a major advantage over cars. Also we have vastly less mass to put stress on the brakes creating less heat. You'll find that the rotors on modern cars even when taken care of properly and not pushed too hard don't last very long anymore (a few thousand miles if you're lucky). However, on a bike if properly taken care of, the rotors seem to last dang near forever (at least compared to car rotors lol).
Secondly, she wanted to know about slowing down/maintaining speed on a downhill curve. Now, in MSF they showed how bad it is to use your brakes in that sort of situation. Because your traction is reduced in a curve due to the lean of the bike, it is unsafe to use your brakes. If you accidentally brake too much you will cause the tires to brake free while in a lean (very bad for you and bike). This however does not apply to cars which don't lean and don't have reduced traction in downhill curves (like highway off ramps) and can safely apply brakes at that time. When in a turn and the need to brake comes up you should straighten the bike and apply the brakes. Hope I'm not boring anyone to death and making sense to people. |
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August 21st, 2009, 02:39 PM | #53 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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They sure didn't teach us that here...and we have a LOT of hills
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August 22nd, 2009, 09:08 PM | #54 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
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Terri-Lynn, time to batten down the hatches. Bill is coming your way. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say, "be safe."
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August 24th, 2009, 03:40 PM | #55 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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August 24th, 2009, 04:13 PM | #56 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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So I've been 'engine breaking' but what if you're on a really steep hill that's turning? That's a little rough to be engine breaking isn't it?
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August 24th, 2009, 04:21 PM | #57 | |
.
Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
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Quote:
It's fine to be engine braking while turning and going down a steep hill. You did your braking with the brakes before you entered the turn and now you can let the engine continue to help reduce your speed into the corner. |
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August 24th, 2009, 05:38 PM | #58 | |
dirty old man
Name: Chris
Location: Hazel Green, AL
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Quote:
nb
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August 25th, 2009, 04:02 AM | #59 | |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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Quote:
I don't think you realize the extent of these hills...Breaking 'into' the long steep spiraling mountain of death doesn't really do much for me in the end other then make my engine really mad when I tell it to break for me.
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August 25th, 2009, 04:16 AM | #60 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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Images found on google I can't find any pics of the steep ones I was on a couple days ago. I'll try to get out and take some pics. I wish I could find some of the crazy ones but google isn't working for me right now
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August 25th, 2009, 05:43 AM | #61 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Scott
Location: Indianapolis
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (Blue) Posts: 167
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Quote:
Quote:
On the way down that mountain of death, if the engine's revs are climbing, then the engine is definitely doing significant braking for you. When negotiating switchbacks, look for spots along the way where you can stand the bike up and go straight for even a second or two, and use your brakes then. That should get the engine out of the "mad" range for a few moments. Then, release the brake and set up for the next corner, where the revs will climb again, and look for your next braking opportunity. It becomes a cycle, and eventually you'll get a rhythm for each mountain. When you get that rhythm, it's like a dance. The bike becomes your partner, and each mountain forces its own unique choreography. |
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August 25th, 2009, 06:45 AM | #62 | |
.
Name: rock
Location: greenville, south carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): black Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
You can engine brake the whoooooooole way down, your engine won't mind... honest Practice these hills... Start at the top in say...oh, 2nd gear and just let the bike's engine hold you back the whole way down. Then.. maybe try it in 3rd gear.. you'll descend a bit faster.. then 4th.. etc. You'll get a feel of how fast your bike will let you go down the hill in a particular gear. Use whatever gear you need, that will keep the bike's speed down to a speed you find comfortable. You'll also find it's OK to drag a little front brake to assist the engine braking while going a spiral - down hill. Light pressure, not "stopping" pressure on the brake lever. If your hill is 10 miles long... you can use that engine to help keep your speed down (engine braking) the entire distance... bikes like that kind of stuff |
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August 25th, 2009, 07:14 AM | #63 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Greg
Location: central new york
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You also need to consider weight transfer and how the engine works against the tires with engine breaking, especially down hill. Going down hill your rear tire has less traction because the weight is shifted forwards from the hill. Breaking shifts more weight forwards. High RPMs (like from a low gear) will cause the engine to provide a lot of breaking force which will probably overwhelm the rear tire traction, same goes for the rear brake.
What it really comes down to is that you need practice to find the place where you start losing traction at either end. Until that time make sure you don't go into any corners too hot, especially downhill. If you are picking up speed while engine breaking, probably best to lightly use the front break, if you panic grab the front or back break you will most likely end up sliding down the road. Pretty much any sport bike with decent tires will slide a lot before the thing just lays down, it is not like walking on ice where suddenly all traction is gone. If it feels like it is pushing (sliding out of the corner) you can normally cut it a little sharper, stand it up a little and brake hard then flop it back down into the corner. Repeat as needed. The road is wide and the bike is small so you really have a lot of room unless you have already let yourself drift to the outside of the corner. Also hang you body off the inside of the bike, the shift in weight will normally let you stand the bike up a little more to get extra traction for braking. Lowers your center of gravity and gets more parts out in the air which will also help slow you down in a panic situation. Knee sliders and racing boots with sliders will make you more comfortable doing this as you will no longer worry about hitting you knee on the ground, even if you do not intend to even try to put a knee on the ground it just feels safer knowing there is protection for your knee. Yeah I know I sound like a squid, but try it on some flat high speed corners and tell me the bike doesn't go around them more willingly with a knee stuck down and half you body weight hanging low over the side. The seat on the 08 and 09 is made for this, that's why it is wide and flat. Same goes for the sculpting of the tank, the inside of you thigh should be tight against the tank to help hold you on the bike. It starts coming down to this, if you want to be a really confident rider, lots of practice, read a few books, and if possible take a racing school. The safety courses are good for the basics, but they just can not handle the majority of issues, especially when few actually go out on the roads and ride during the schools. We host several of these at the college where I work and those poor people never even get to take the bikes around the campus roads, it's all done in a parking lot. The first time most of them hit the real roads is after they get their license and that is certainly the wrong time to do so (in my opinion). |
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August 26th, 2009, 06:33 PM | #64 | |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Jes
Location: Fremont
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Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device |
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August 28th, 2009, 12:53 PM | #65 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Andrew
Location: SC
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Suzuki GSX-R 750 Posts: 25
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i'm 6'5" 200, so my top speed is only 90mph. i think i've gotten it to maybe 92 or 93 a couple times.
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August 29th, 2009, 12:32 AM | #66 |
The Grand Royal
Name: Cochese
Location: Unmarked Rustbox
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 258
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I'm not exactly svelte at 230lbs/6'3"... my top speed (indicated) is 100 mph with a modified bike.
-Full exhaust (little backpressure) -FP Stage III jetting -Open K&N intake -Dynotuning I'm sure it would go much faster if I ate less. |
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July 22nd, 2010, 09:38 AM | #67 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ryan
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): Black '11 ZX-6R Posts: 209
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i maintain 70mph with around 8k roms but i hit 100 on straight away flat no problem and have gotten it to about 105-110 on flat road. I have to agree though that the wind is teh major issue which is y 150 60 17 / 120 60 17 here i come.
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July 22nd, 2010, 09:43 AM | #68 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ryan
Location: Orlando, FL
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There is art to engine braking im just finding out because i would abruptly close throttle and have a jerk but now i ease it down and have found that i dont even have to end up closing it at all to slow down to where i would now consider the throttle G spot (it exits fellas) similar to the friction zone.That spots makes for some great riding and some great bike responses.
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July 22nd, 2010, 09:48 AM | #69 |
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Name: Rick
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I usualy ride 100+ miles at a time at highway speeds with no problems. Just be sure to check and change your oil regularly.
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July 22nd, 2010, 10:52 AM | #70 |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.
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I regularly ride the I-75 interstate in Georgia.
Most of the other vehicles are in the 70-90mph range. Ive never had a problem keeping up with, or passing those vehicles. Now obviously, you wont be passing them at warp speed, but it will pass them about as easily as a car would. The ninja will run comfortably up the interstate all day in the 70-80mph range with no problems. I try to keep it under 90mph, just because of all the cops....but I have had it wrapped out at 105mph before on a back road. To put it simply....the ninja 250R has no problems on the interstate, and will run it all day long. Your butt will wear out before the bike will. Edit: Oh, and my bike is bone stock...NO mods. Im 6'3" and 185lbs. |
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July 22nd, 2010, 10:57 AM | #71 |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.
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Oh and as far as prolonged downhill braking with the ninja250R.
You can warp the disks...but you will likely experience brake fade long before that happens. You can mitigate this by switching to a DOT4 brake setup which will take the higher brake caliper temps much better. But its still best to let the engine do the braking for the most part.... |
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August 5th, 2010, 01:31 PM | #72 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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Top speed: 175km/h
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August 6th, 2010, 10:50 PM | #73 |
ninjette.org member
Name: David
Location: Quebec, Canada
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50KM of highway everyday at 120 km/h im 180lbs
no problem at all except strong wind is a pain sometime |
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August 7th, 2010, 08:57 PM | #74 | |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
Name: Mike
Location: Windermere, FL
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Quote:
Now is that your indicated speed or your corrected speed? If it's your indicated speed take about 10% (or 10mph) off for you corrected speed of 90mph. Also remember to take into account climate, temp, elevation, and such info as this also has significant effect on the performance of a vehicle. This is especially true of carburetted vehicles. |
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August 7th, 2010, 09:46 PM | #75 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Laurie
Location: Greater Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Feb 2010 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 50
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I know the spedometer is optimistic, so I have no idea the fastest I've ever gone. It was slightly above 140km/h. I routinely travel at just over 120km/h on my commute - although I just discovered the awesome back roads, so I can avoid the gong show of Hwy 1 around Langley/Abbotsford
I'm not all about how fast I can go anyways. I'm fine with being one of the slowest bikes in the pack. |
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August 9th, 2010, 07:21 AM | #76 |
Geeket
Name: Terri-Lynn
Location: Newfoundland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: 175
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Ditto! I was just curious on the performance. I'd rather a twisty any day over highway speeds.
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August 9th, 2010, 08:01 AM | #77 |
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Name: m
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August 9th, 2010, 10:19 AM | #78 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Laurie
Location: Greater Vancouver, BC
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August 10th, 2010, 02:09 PM | #79 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jon
Location: Usa
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Went to Quebec City from Montreal and I was doing about 140KM/h on average. 275 KM non-stop. RPM was about 12,000-13,000
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August 10th, 2010, 04:19 PM | #80 |
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I'm 185 before I pee in the morning but I got it just over 100 this saturday. Tires 29/29 and a big windscreen, full tuck.
Think I lost a bit with sprocket swap but she purrs @ 80 for hours and i've run over 90 for maybe 40 miles. It is an amazing bike. |
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