Do cruiser riders throttle blip?

[RJprod]

I always wonder that... for some of you on here who ride cruisers, do you throttle blip when downshifting?

[csmith12]

I came from cruizers. Generally... I didn't and neither did most of the other riders. I ran with an older crowd though. Most of the riders were 50+. Seems most of the revs were at the stops for "sh*ts and giggles".

[xSean13]

They should. Anything with a manual transmission, I would assume, would benefit from it unless it's some super high-tech machine.

[Cycle Randy]

Ride a Harley and you will see, downshifting is useless, with belt drive. Feels like a go cart to me

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Cycle Randy

Ride a Harley and you will see, downshifting is useless, with belt drive. Feels like a go cart to me

How is a belt different from a chain? I can't imagine its that different feeling

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Cycle Randy

Ride a Harley and you will see, downshifting is useless, with belt drive. Feels like a go cart to me

It's even worst with shaft drive bikes. Very ridged when no smooth.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

How is a belt different from a chain? I can't imagine its that different feeling

All about slack yo, belts don't have any. The slop in the chain can work to your advantage here. It's subtle, but there. Think about where the torque is on an HD vs the 250.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by csmith12

It's even worst with shaft drive bikes. Very ridged when no smooth.

I like my shaft

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by csmith12

All about slack yo, belts don't have any. The slop in the chain can work to your advantage here. It's subtle, but there. Think about where the torque is on an HD vs the 250.

I thought that's why the 250 has a cush drive? To smooth out the drive lash?


I'm still lost on why down shifting is useless?

[ChaoSS]

It's not useless, and I ride a shaft and a chain. (yes, I phrased it that way on purpose)



As has been said, every vehicle with a manual transmission benefits from matching engine speed to road speed when you shift gears.


Now, there are two reasons to rev match, and cruisers only really see one of those reasons. On a sport bike, or really, any high rpm vehicle, when you downshift and the rpms go up high, it can cause the back wheel to lose traction as it tries to speed up the engine. This is not such an issue with lower rpm motors, as it takes less to bring the engine up to speed when it's a lower speed.


However, rpm matching will save your clutch, and this applies to every vehicle out there with a standard transmission. (expect nonsynchronized transmissions like trucks, which have to be manually synchronized or they won't shift at all).

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I thought that's why the 250 has a cush drive? To smooth out the drive lash?


I'm still lost on why down shifting is useless?

Yea, cush drives dampen the wheel from the lashing they would surely take from the rest of the engine and chain/belt/shaft.

Some shaft driven bikes (honda shadow) have really nice and soft cush drives. When I road a shadow back in 1987, I didn't even know what blipping was, much less do it.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by xSean13

They should. Anything with a manual transmission, I would assume, would benefit from it unless it's some super high-tech machine.

They have so much torque that they could go around town all day in the upper gear...............wait!..........the real reason is that for HD's, they don't need to open the engine to repair the transmission.....

I don't know if all have wet clutch now, but before 1984, many had dry clutch, which also helped isolating engine form transmission completely.

Bigger parts with more inertia also help the engine keeping steady rpms' for longer after the throttle is closed for shifting.

Being engines designed for comfort, the transmission may have some kind of synchronizing mechanisms, just like cars with manual transmission have had since the 1950's...........I don't know for sure.

I will ask my HD neighbor when I see him.

[93etgocart]

I blip the throttle on my shadow. Maybe its because im coming from the sport bike world but I ride the shadow the same way I ride my ninja, like I stole it

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by Motofool

They have so much torque that they could go around town all day in the upper gear...............wait!..........the real reason is that for HD's, they don't need to open the engine to repair the transmission.....

I don't know if all have wet clutch now, but before 1984, many had dry clutch, which also helped isolating engine form transmission completely.

Bigger parts with more inertia also help the engine keeping steady rpms' for longer after the throttle is closed for shifting.

Being engines designed for comfort, the transmission may have some kind of synchronizing mechanisms, just like cars with manual transmission have had since the 1950's...........I don't know for sure.

I will ask my HD neighbor when I see him.

Heh. My mom has a harley but doesn't ride cuz she failed the MSF, lol.
I really know nothing about engines, so my assumption is based on observations.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Being engines designed for comfort, the transmission may have some kind of synchronizing mechanisms

I thought those physically aligned the teeth so that they were less likely to grind if you don't get your timing on the clutch perfect? Like just to make the car slightly more idiot-proof.

I know all our cars that are manuals still require either time in the friction zone or a blip on downshifts. They don't rev match for you like the F1 cars.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I thought those physically aligned the teeth so that they were less likely to grind if you don't get your timing on the clutch perfect?.....

Yes, in non-automatic cars' gear boxes, synchronizes are like mini-clutches (in cone shapes) between two gears, which drag and speed up the lazy gear.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

The real thing looks like this:

http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/p...ynchromesh.jpg

[ChaoSS]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I thought those physically aligned the teeth so that they were less likely to grind if you don't get your timing on the clutch perfect? Like just to make the car slightly more idiot-proof.

I know all our cars that are manuals still require either time in the friction zone or a blip on downshifts. They don't rev match for you like the F1 cars.

The synchros help you get the car in gear, they don't rev match.


Basically, in a non-synchronized transmission, you push in the clutch, put it into neutral, and then wait for the rpms to fall, or blip the accelerator, depending on if it's an upshift or a downshift, and when the rpms match, you push the clutch back in and engage in gear. You can do it without the clutch, if you time it right.


With a synchronized transmission, you push in the clutch, then put it in neutral. Instead of waiting for the RPMS to match, you simply put it in the gear you want, and then release the clutch. If you match the rpms, or come close, then the clutch doesn't need to do much. If you don't, the clutch does the work of rpm matching for you, although like you said, it takes a little time in the friction zone to accomplish this.


Think about what happens in the transmission. When the clutch is engaged, the input shaft and the engine are spinning at the same speed. The output shaft is coupled to the driveline, or axles, or whatever, depending on the drive configuration. When you switch gears, the input and output shafts are not moving at the correct ratio for the gear you want to be in, because they are moving at the ratio for the gear you are in. In order to do that, you can either blip the throttle, with the clutch engaged (by this I mean your foot off the pedal), or you can use synchros.

All bikes must have synchros, because you can't shift to neutral between gears.


Blipping the throttle with the clutch engaged on a non synchro transmission does somethin different for you that doing so with the clutch disengaged on a synchro tranny.

Here's hoping that this made a little bit of sense, and that you don't still have me blocked.

[wdhansewd]

Well after reading this I have started playing with throttle bliping and I must say it actually smooths down the downshifting on my vulcan, but im sure that has more to do with the fact thag it actually have the ninja 500r motor and tranny in the frame instead of a v-twin

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ChaoSS

All bikes must have synchros, because you can't shift to neutral between gears.


Blipping the throttle with the clutch engaged on a non synchro transmission does somethin different for you that doing so with the clutch disengaged on a synchro tranny.

Here's hoping that this made a little bit of sense, and that you don't still have me blocked.

Makes sense indeed

[alex.s]

from what i've seen it depends on the skill of the biker... if they ride lots of bikes, they blip. if they just ride their harley on saturdays to the coffee shop, they don't blip for downshifts, but they still sit there blipping their engine at stop lights. i dont think they know what the blip is for.


also, when i rode a harley i blipped. seemed natural. was a lot harder since the revs fell so quickly but i got used to it fast