Racing tricks

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Floki

I started this thread mainly because I am a total noob to racing, well not total anymore. But doing races on my bike I noticed that almost every other bike was considerably faster than mine in the straights of Barber. I just wanted some input on how to make the bike perform better, faster which most of you have been plenty helpful.

I've cleaned my calipers, removed the gauges and and installed aluminum stay, replaced the battery with lithium, ordered 415 chain w/ aluminum sprockets, removed the key ignition, removed locking gas cap, removed radiator fan, removed brackets, SBK reservoir, speedo sensor removed,

Resistance when rolling the tires is SIGNIFICANTLY less on both wheels

I just need to continue working on dropping some weight off of myself. I could definitely drop 15lb or so.

Floki,

Just to be clear about "removing" brackets. The WERA rulebook is very specific about what removed means: "REMOVED is defined as unbolted - not cut off" That means no cutting off of unneeded brackets from the frame.

Also, at the very bottom of the superstock section of the WERA rulebook is a catch-all rule. It says this: "The items above constitute the entire realm of deviation from showroom stock for Superstock classes. If it does not mention you CAN do it, you CAN NOT."

This means that your reservoir delete mod is illegal for F Superstock.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Floki

Everyone in here is giving solid advice that I'm taking in

I'm not

[Floki]

I'm really pinched on money otherwise I would be there.
@tgold Some bikes were running them in Stock classes last year. I'll ask on the WERA form

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by Floki

I'm really pinched on money otherwise I would be there.
@tgold Some bikes were running them in Stock classes last year. I'll ask on the WERA form

bummer
and yes, please get a ruling on this.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by Floki

Is there any point to ceramic bearings? I know woodcraft sells a set for our bike

Illegal for your class.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

bummer
and yes, please get a ruling on this.

I don't want to sound all preachy, but...

The rules are pretty clear. Not that I think that that one modification is going to be the deciding factor in the finishing order, but allowing this sort of bending of the rules just makes the definition of legal more murky. It then begs the question: At what point is it not ok, and then considered cheating? Takes it from being a clear rule and turns it into an opinion.

Sure, on the WERA board you will get lots of people saying that they don't care and: "I wouldn't protest you for that.", But unless you hear it from Mongo himself that it is ok, I wouldn't do it, because it may come back to bite you.

And then, when I'm your competitor and I can see that you've done something to your bike that is clearly not allowed, am I to assume that that is the only thing that you've done to your bike that is outside the rules?

I'm not throwing stones, but IMHO, it's not worth sowing seeds of doubt about the legality of your bike and the possible protest/disqualification.

[Floki]

@AwDang the first response is that it's illegal. Bummer

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by tgold

I don't want to sound all preachy, but...

The rules are pretty clear. Not that I think that that one modification is going to be the deciding factor in the finishing order, but allowing this sort of bending of the rules just makes the definition of legal more murky. It then begs the question: At what point is it not ok, and then considered cheating? Takes it from being a clear rule and turns it into an opinion.

Sure, on the WERA board you will get lots of people saying that they don't care and: "I wouldn't protest you for that.", But unless you hear it from Mongo himself that it is ok, I wouldn't do it, because it may come back to bite you.

And then, when I'm your competitor and I can see that you've done something to your bike that is clearly not allowed, am I to assume that that is the only thing that you've done to your bike that is outside the rules?

I'm not throwing stones, but IMHO, it's not worth sowing seeds of doubt about the legality of your bike and the possible protest/disqualification.

ya know Tim, it's that attitude that just sucks the fun out of racing for me. At the end of the day, even with a WERA Sportsman National Championship. Starbucks still charges $2.99 for a cup of coffee.

In other words; "rule hawks" irritate the crap out of me.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by tgold

I don't want to sound all preachy, but...

The rules are pretty clear. Not that I think that that one modification is going to be the deciding factor in the finishing order, but allowing this sort of bending of the rules just makes the definition of legal more murky. It then begs the question: At what point is it not ok, and then considered cheating? Takes it from being a clear rule and turns it into an opinion.

Sure, on the WERA board you will get lots of people saying that they don't care and: "I wouldn't protest you for that.", But unless you hear it from Mongo himself that it is ok, I wouldn't do it, because it may come back to bite you.

And then, when I'm your competitor and I can see that you've done something to your bike that is clearly not allowed, am I to assume that that is the only thing that you've done to your bike that is outside the rules?

I'm not throwing stones, but IMHO, it's not worth sowing seeds of doubt about the legality of your bike and the possible protest/disqualification.

I've seen where people cheat all the time, big bore kits and a whole bunch of stuff, I don't cheat because I like to know I beat them with a compliant bike, but I also would never call anybody for cheating, it is their problem not mine.

[AwDang]

Originally Posted by Floki

@AwDang the first response is that it's illegal. Bummer

I'm watching, wait till Sean makes a ruling.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Of course, that little bit on each exit can keep a lead or push one even further.

That was a poor attempt on my part at political humor

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by AwDang

I'm watching, wait till Sean makes a ruling.

I got DQ'd at the GNF, out of 2nd place ESS, 2014, for not having the backfire screen in my airbox. Wondering where it went I headed back to the pits to find it sitting in the top of my tool box. Probably not an issue during the season but a problem at the GNF.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

I've seen where people cheat all the time, big bore kits and a whole bunch of stuff, I don't cheat because I like to know I beat them with a compliant bike, but I also would never call anybody for cheating, it is their problem not mine.

Theres a vast difference among the racing orgs. 250 classes, CCS runs Thunderbike rules, WERA strict SS rules if running FSS, MCRA seems to be a free for all.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by AwDang

ya know Tim, it's that attitude that just sucks the fun out of racing for me. At the end of the day, even with a WERA Sportsman National Championship. Starbucks still charges $2.99 for a cup of coffee.

In other words; "rule hawks" irritate the crap out of me.

I'm not saying that I'm that guy. I'm saying that from the perspective of not giving anyone a reason or opportunity to get me disqualified.

FWIW, I've never protested anyone in 30+ years of racing, and I wouldn't do it for something that is in my opinion trivial. I can also tell you that I would have no trouble protesting someone for something that provided an unfair advantage.

I enjoy racing immensely and am in the 250 class because it's a lot of fun and I really have a great time with the 250 crew in Moto Series. A very friendly "Here: take my bike and race it" bunch of guys and gals. I seriously doubt that the issue would come up for us, but if it were to, I would try to work out an issue person to person in the friendliest manner possible long before ever going some sort of official route.

[Floki]

Funny question, If I want to clean my Pistons in the calipers at some point through the season, do I need new seals every time I do it?

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by Floki

Funny question, If I want to clean my Pistons in the calipers at some point through the season, do I need new seals every time I do it?

It would be a good idea. The seals are what retract the piston into the caliper. Excess heat hardens them and makes them less effective.

[kalleh]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You know I would know this.

TOTWII - Chapter 17

"The route to confidence to turn entry speed is nothing more or less than faith in your own ability to get the bike turned quick enough." - Keith Code

I already posted this in some other thread. If you're up against a rider with nearly equal skill but you can't get by them, out steer them. No fancy mods needed, higher entry speed + earlier roll on = imma pass you, it's just a matter of time and where.

OK, I'm hopelessly slow so maybe I'm just one of those guys™, but here's my take on this: A significant amount of my corner confidence comes from a bike that is stable while cornering. And that's why one of my first priorities on my bike was to put on as good suspension as I could afford. Are there people who can ride faster than me on stock suspension? Yes. Is good suspension making me more confident, faster and letting me have more fun? Yes for that too!

[jkv45]

Here's an article from Dragbike.com that has some info about the effects of aerodynamics on speeds, listing top speeds of the same bike with and without fairings at Loring. Conditions were not the best, with significant crossing headwinds.

http://www.dragbike.com/racings-ups-...t-from-loring/

A ZX6R with fairings went 182.3283 mph and 186.7727 mph at the 1.5 mile.

Same bike without fairings went 173.1655 mph in the 1 mile and 172.6979 mph in the 1.5 mile.

Difference was about 9 MPH or 5.5% in the 1 mile runs.

A Ninja 250 with fairings went 104.7867 mph on the mile and 105.2185 mph on the 1.5 mile.

Same Ninja without fairings ran 99.7151 mph on the mile and 99.3123 mph on the 1.5 mile.

Difference was about 5 MPH or 5.5% in the 1 mile runs.

Both naked bikes were faster at the 1 mile mark than at the 1.5 mile mark. With fairings they were both faster at 1.5 miles. Both had large aero front fenders at all times.

Interesting reading. I had been looking for a direct comparison of speeds with and without fairings, but up to this point hadn't found one.

[csmith12]

Sure thing Kalle!

Many of the quotes from very talented riders are based on certain fundamentals already being in place. Such as a well setup suspension on their bike, good tires, well fitting gear, ect.. ect.. I can only assume that K. Code's quote above is also based on those same assumptions.

Getting the hard parts required to get the bike stable in the corner is kinda one of those given fundamentals imho. Does it have to be 100% perfect? Nah, but hopefully pretty darn close and the closer to 100%, the better.

We smile more when our bikes to not fight what we are asking it to do.

[Floki]

I might be going slow because cylinder one has 30psi. Checking valve lash now...

[Misti]

Originally Posted by kalleh

OK, I'm hopelessly slow so maybe I'm just one of those guys™, but here's my take on this: A significant amount of my corner confidence comes from a bike that is stable while cornering. And that's why one of my first priorities on my bike was to put on as good suspension as I could afford. Are there people who can ride faster than me on stock suspension? Yes. Is good suspension making me more confident, faster and letting me have more fun? Yes for that too!

Of course. A well set up bike is amazing and confidence inspiring but here is the thing. What is the use of a well set up bike if your skills are ****? (and I'm not saying anyone here has **** skills)

Just an example. I was coaching a guy who was reasonably quick but he kept coming in and adjusting his suspension and complaining that he was bottoming out the front forks, and that the bike felt unstable. Upon closer investigation of his riding we determined that he was completely off the gas most of the corner and therefore had too much weight on the front and the bike felt unstable. He went back out, worked on improving his throttle control and wham, problem solved. As Keith Code says sometimes, good throttle control is like suspension tuning on the fly.

Again, not saying AT ALL that suspension is not important or that good parts won't make a bike feel better or go faster, I just want to stress the importance of good skills as equally valuable and worthy of throwing money at

Originally Posted by csmith12

Sure thing Kalle!

Many of the quotes from very talented riders are based on certain fundamentals already being in place. Such as a well setup suspension on their bike, good tires, well fitting gear, ect.. ect.. I can only assume that K. Code's quote above is also based on those same assumptions.

Getting the hard parts required to get the bike stable in the corner is kinda one of those given fundamentals imho. Does it have to be 100% perfect? Nah, but hopefully pretty darn close and the closer to 100%, the better.

We smile more when our bikes to not fight what we are asking it to do.

Agreed.

[ninja-turtle]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Sub 300# and aerodynamic.

Are these rs250 fairings? Do you know if they would fit a ninja 300 without any modifications

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by ninja-turtle

Are these rs250 fairings? Do you know if they would fit a ninja 300 without any modifications

Yes they are. They are definitely not bolt on. Lots of custom brackets and fabrication. I had to lower the clip-ons to a point that I think is to low. Also had to fabricate a subframe under the seat which is at the wrong angle in the picture. I think I'm going to use the ninja 250 bodywork next season.

[tgold]

Not really a go-fast trick so much as a get-you-back-out-on-the-track trick:

If you are in a spot where you have to work on your brakes at the track and you can't find any new copper crush washers for reassembly, do this:

Set the used copper washers on a piece of steel and fire up your propane torch. heat the washers for a few minutes until you see that color-changing effect as you pass the flame back and forth over the copper. Turn off your torch and let the washers cool off by themselves. DO NOT quench them in water. The slow cooling of the washers will anneal the copper and they will seal better when you go to reinstall your brake lines. Now, go spend 5 or 10 minutes asking around in the pits for new washers. If you find some, then great. If you don't, just put in your annealed washers and you'll have a better chance of not having any leaks.

[farmboy]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Become an exceptional rider on the least modified bike.

Bahahahaha Bruce you renegade you.

[farmboy]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Sub 300# and aerodynamic.

Bruce, I know you said you thought the bars were too low, but how much higher than stock is that seat? It looks awfully high, maybe dropping it would take some weight off the front. Did you have a hard time fitting the bike with the stock seat height?

Edit: just read through the whole thread again and see where you say the seat's at the wrong angle. You know, right above here.