Troubleshooting a no crank situation

[wstulir]

Firstly I would like to say I have appreciate any help I might receive.

So the issue is a no crank. The bike is an 03 EX250F with 1,600 miles. I purchased the bike about 30 days ago. The battery is new, I replaced it.
The bike would crank and run the last time I tried it, which was a few days ago. I have put 20 miles on it since I got it.
The battery is charged and has an approximate static voltage of 13volts. The battery voltage when the starter relay is engaged is 12.7 volts.
With the plugs out bike on the center stand and kickstand up and clutch pulled in and in neutral and the key in the on position and you push the starter switch,
the relay makes one solid sounding click. The starter does not make any noises and the engine does not crank.

I removed the stator bolt cover and turned over the engine. It seems to turn over fine.

With the transmission in 1st and the clutched disengaged its hard to push. With the clutch engaged in 1st its possible to move in reverse but impossible to move
forward. When I move it in reverse it makes a sound like the starter motor spinning or some gears turning.
It seems like its locked up when trying to push it in the forward direction.
All of that was done with the plugs out.

Any suggestions?

[Ghostt]

Did you test the starter solenoid? Do you have power, lighting?

[wstulir]

The cluster lights up as normal.
The relay clicks once for every press of the switch.
I'm not sure how to test the relay.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by wstulir

The cluster lights up as normal.
The relay clicks once for every press of the switch.
I'm not sure how to test the relay.

Testing is easy, just take a screwdriver and carefully touch both of the poles on the top of the solenoid, but be careful, this bypasses everything, so make sure it's in neutral beforehand.

If it cranks then odds are it's the solenoid, test a few times to verify, then buy a new solenoid.

Caltric Starter Solenoid Relay Fits Kawasaki EX250 Ninja 250R 250 1986-2010 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0074MNHSO..._.LIwxbG7A6B3V

[wstulir]

I did try that. Nothing happened. No sounds, no anything.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by wstulir

I did try that. Nothing happened. No sounds, no anything.

Okay, well you've bypasses everything by doing that, no sparks? Nothing? You did touch both posts at the same time, using the metal screwdriver as a bridge, thereby closing the circuit.

If you did it correctly, and nothing happened, I would turn my attention to the grounds.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by wstulir

........
I removed the stator bolt cover and turned over the engine. It seems to turn over fine.

With the transmission in 1st and the clutched disengaged its hard to push. With the clutch engaged in 1st its possible to move in reverse but impossible to move
forward. When I move it in reverse it makes a sound like the starter motor spinning or some gears turning.
It seems like its locked up when trying to push it in the forward direction.
All of that was done with the plugs out.

Any suggestions?

Welcome, William !!!

There is a plug in the left cover for turning the crankshaft manually.
Did you put the that cover back, verifying that the gear that connects the starter's pinion and the gear in the alternator aligns and works properly?

If so, I would remove the starter and test it unloaded.

If that is OK, I would open the valve's cover to verify that all the valves return to the closed position while turning the engine by hand.

I see no reason for the engine not to rotate by pushing the bike forward, other than a bent valve.

[wstulir]

My personal opinion is the gearing on the starter is seized or something similar.
I had the same issue last week but rocking the bike while in gear seemed to
"free it up."

[wstulir]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Welcome, William !!!

There is a plug in the left cover for turning the crankshaft manually.
Did you put the that cover back, verifying that the gear that connects the starter's pinion and the gear in the alternator aligns and works properly?

If so, I would remove the starter and test it unloaded.

If that is OK, I would open the valve's cover to verify that all the valves return to the closed position while turning the engine by hand.

I see no reason for the engine not to rotate by pushing the bike forward, other than a bent valve.

I have not removed the starter yet, but it is going to be my next step.

[wstulir]

Originally Posted by wstulir

I have not removed the starter yet, but it is going to be my next step.

While turning the crank in the clockwise direction it sounded like it might have been spinning the starter as well, just like when I rolled the bike backward in gear. Maybe the starter is bound up?

[wstulir]

If the starter is good, and the relay is good, and the battery is good, what do I do next? I am sure the problem is in the gearing the starter connects to. What would I do to fix that? When the starter was cranking the engine, it would make the bike roll forward with the clutch disengaged while in first. Is it possible the clutch plates are stuck together? I had only put a few miles on it in the last month, but my understanding is that the bike sat for at least 5 years or more.

[RacinNinja]

Start it in neutral....if it's got enough juice to roll it in first, it should work in neutral.

[wstulir]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Start it in neutral....if it's got enough juice to roll it in first, it should work in neutral.

Well it doesn't crank at all now, whether in neutral or not. I'm wondering if anyone has mechanical knowledge of how the starter pinion gets to the crank. I think somewhere there is the problem.

[juliusmichaelhonrada]

Originally Posted by greg737

If I correctly understand your description of this starter problem: the starter spins but fails to turn the engine, I would bet that you have a Starter Motor Clutch problem.

The Starter Motor Clutch is a "Sprag Clutch" which is a "one-way, freewheeling" type of clutch. To achieve this it contains a set of roller+spring cap+spring assemblies that can "grab" the crankshaft only when it (meaning the starter motor clutch) is turning faster than the engine's crankshaft. Which, of course, can only occur when the engine is off and you hit the starter button.

If your starter motor spins but cannot grab and turn the crankshaft (or only occasionally) it's because one or more of the roller+spring cap+spring assemblies has/have failed.

The parts I'm talking about are part numbers 92122 and 92043 and 92081 in this image: http://www.partzilla.com/parts/searc...%29/parts.html

part numbers
92122
92043
92081

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by wstulir

Firstly I would like to say I have appreciate any help I might receive.

So the issue is a no crank.

Any suggestions?

Install crank.

Done.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by wstulir

Well it doesn't crank at all now, whether in neutral or not. I'm wondering if anyone has mechanical knowledge of how the starter pinion gets to the crank. I think somewhere there is the problem.

You never responded my previous question

If you cannot turn (counterclockwise) the crankshaft by hand more than two full turns, you have a valve problem.

If you cannot turn (clockwise) the crankshaft by hand one full turn, you have a valve problem of broken teeth in one of the gears.

Starter pinion (counterclockwise rotation) -> connecting gear (clockwise rotation) -> gear of one-way clutch behind generator (counterclockwise rotation)

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[wstulir]

I have removed the generator cover to inspect, everything is perfect. I removed and disassembled the starter motor. After reassembly and re installation it worked, the bike ran perfectly for about 20 - 30 minutes. I stopped to get gas. No crank. Pushed home. #sad. There is 12.6 volts getting to the starter motor, I have confirmed. And the grounding is fine because the 12.6 volts makes it back to the frame through the starter.

Next step: buy replacement starter motor.

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by wstulir

I have removed the generator cover to inspect, everything is perfect. I removed and disassembled the starter motor. After reassembly and re installation it worked, the bike ran perfectly for about 20 - 30 minutes. I stopped to get gas. No crank. Pushed home. #sad. There is 12.6 volts getting to the starter motor, I have confirmed. And the grounding is fine because the 12.6 volts makes it back to the frame through the starter.

Next step: buy replacement starter motor.

Push it home? Why didn't you "bump start", "push start" "pop start" ....whatever you want to call it?

you may want to examine the armature and brushes prior to buying a starter, no?

[juliusmichaelhonrada]

you should also check the connection terminals in everything between the starter and the battery , i had an older bike and its full of white powdery stuff and the electricity cant get through i had to use a sandpaper and some elbowgrease

[wstulir]

PROBLEM SOLVED: For anyone who reads this in the future the problem was in fact a faulty starter motor. Bench test your motor very early in the troubleshoot procces. If it does not work every time scrap it. I bought a used starter on eBay for $20 off an 09.

Thanks for every ones help