Can you give this 15 year old some Advice?

[VianteSBK]

Hello Guys, I'm new here.

I'm 15 years old and will be 16 in April of 2013. Anyways, around November I will be getting a 2008 Ninja 250r and will race it in the WERA 250 class, and after a year move up to a 600 Class to stay Competitive . They will be track ONLY bikes. In the summer of next year, if I have some money saved up, I will attend Jason Disalvo's speed academy. I don't have rich parents but so didn't Ben Spies.

Now what exactly should I do to achieve this goal? Should I race in Wera? Would USGPRU be a better fit? (They Don't have it in Ohio). Any tips?

I have aspirations for AMA, WSBK, and Moto2/3. Am I too old? I know the Hayden brothers, and Bradley Smith and Spies and Mladin all started young. But one of the legends started at 18! Now I'm not saying I will be the next freak of nature like Biaggi. But am I really too old? I know I can make it to the AMA. (I say that Humbly) but the question is factory or privateer.

I'm a really good student, who attended MIT's young physicist program and Invitational Nasa Engineering program, so this means I would be completely skipping college to pursue racing. This is tough....

Can you guys please give me some Insight?

Thanks and God bless.

Wow, I expected you to be some retard like that one kid that totaled his 250 and bought a r6. Either way, I can't give you much because I havn't gotten a chance to track, but, I don't think you're too old, but give it your all and if you have the funds to race and really go at it fully, go for it man. Just be safe

[Jiggles]

I don't have any advice on if you can make it or not but I would suggest not skipping college. Also if you think you need to move to 600s to stay competitive, well it just shows that you don't know the capabilities of the 250 class yet.

Anyone have that video of the dude raping 600s on his 250 at the track? Can't remember the name. Anyway once your doing that then I'd say move up a class

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Alex]

/thread moved to the "ninjettes at speed" area

[lgk]

i would suggest getting the funding and resources figured first.
maybe get some help at track, and network.

you seem like a smart person, maybe you can start a business that helps the racing community.

when your racing career takes off, the business should take off as well.

[csmith12]

Welcome!

My advice.... do not give up college to race.

250 racing in this area is not as popular here as in the west. Small grids and so on. WERA has some classes to grid up in and there are some endurance racing with others to be had if your paper is long enough to travel often enough to get noticed by a sponsor.

Like you have found, there is nothing really close. Although you my want to check Grattan/Putnam/BeaverRun/Pocono schedules.

If you do race, maybe I will see you out there next year. Best of luck with your decision.

[dmb5450]

Hey man, I'm not trying to talk you out of your racing plans by any means. As a person only a bit older than you, I can relate somewhat to what your dilemma is. I won't bore you with my life story, but the main point is college is very important. I'm not familiar with that physics program you spoke of, but it sounds like your a smart kid. Here are my thoughts. If you dont go to college you may never go back later in life. Is there a way to find a happy/healthy medium between racing and school? What would happen if you skip college and race for 3 or 4 years and have an injury that prevents you from racing? I am not saying it will happen, but you should weigh all possibilites. If you went to school and race at the same time you can get a degree, at least you would have a career to fall back on. Is it possible to race, not as competively as you want, but stay competitive then get into it after school? Sorry if spelling is bad and thoughts ate random, I'm in the car with my parents and they keep taking to me lol. My focus isn't all here. What ever you do, it's going to be your decision. Only you can make it. Think it through, talk to your parents, friends, and anyone else. The more feedback and pros and cons you get will only help you!

[RiderOnTheStorm]

Even though you are 15, it sounds like you've got the mindset of a pro. Respect for that.

I am all about chasing your dreams. However, you have to really think it all through, like you are. I 100% agree with Jiggles, don't skip college to race. You could purse an education and try to get into the racing scene on the side.

People say do what you love. I say do what you can enjoy that pays the bills so you can afford to do what you love. It sounds like you could get a top notch education and race/motorcycle on the side.

[alex.s]

go to school. race in your free time. you started late, take your time getting up to speed. make it a hobby first and by the time you are done with school you should be able to step it up and get some real sponsors and try to go pro. and if things dont work out or you have an accident that ends your racing career (this is a very real possibility) you have schooling as a backup plan.

don't skip college.

[Alex]

Don't even consider skipping college for a dream like this. Even at the top level of AMA superbike class, 4 or 5 riders are making a decent living, and the rest are paying for their rides. In MotoGP, the top 6 or 7 riders in the world are making a decent living, and the rest are paying for their rides. The return on investment on a motorcycle racing career is just a few millionths of a percent above zero.

This doesn't mean you don't get a racebike. But it does mean that if you aren't the 1 in a million prodigy, winning the championship without breaking a sweat from class to class to class, earning a living from this is not almost certainly not going to happen. Yes, it happened for Biaggi; yes it happened for Troy Bayliss, and yes, Spies made it through without cubic tons of money in the beginning. But there are hundreds more lottery winners in Ohio alone, and one would never stake their livelihood on that panning out either, right?

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Welcome!

My advice.... do not give up college to race.

250 racing in this area is not as popular as in the west. Small grids and so on. WERA has some classes to grid up in and there are some endurance racing with others to be had if your paper is long enough to travel often enough to get noticed by a sponsor.

Like you have found, there is nothing really close. Although you my want to check Grattan/Putnam/BeaverRun/Pocono schedules.

If you do race, maybe I will see you out there next year. Best of luck with your decision.

Thanks! Well Mid-Ohio is about 2 Hours away, BeaverRun is about 5. If I go to BeaverRun, it will mean I'm camping there, no one to drive a 10 Hr round trip on the same day. Haha.

I think WERA only host Vintage Racing at Mid Ohio. I previously assumed Mid Ohio was notorious for Motorcycle Racing. It looks like a 5 hour Drive to BeaverRun every Race weekend.

Does any of you guys know if WERA host a 250 class at Mid-Ohio?

[alex.s]

about upgrading to 600 class. keep in mind racing a 600 is about 4x as expensive as racing a 250. you do go faster which is fun but 250 class is still very competitive and there is usually a large gap between the front and the back with a huge amount of rider skill to develop in the class. maybe think about sticking with the 250 for a few seasons

[hirubhaiambani]

Sorry I dont have any advice for OP coz I have never raced. But having education is important. Imagine winning a MotoGP or SBK race in some years time and sounding like a douchebag when some famous TV chat show personality invites you to the studio and asks intellectual questions. lol

On a side note: Can competitive racing be taught or do you need to have it within you? Not that I want to become a competitive racer but I'd like to get in shape and do some track days when my bike is not my sole mode of transportation. And when I have more money.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I am not discriminating against people who don't have education. Just that I've noticed educated people seem to have a more stronger personality. Thats my personal opinion so please don't pounce on me. I really respect people who have put in the effort to get some education.

[VianteSBK]

Pursuing Racing over College was a major dilemma. I'm only 15 and I have 3 more years of High School until graduation. Maintain good grades, Race in High School, and hopefully having AMA Teams calling my phone before my 18th birthday.

While racing, simultaneously sending applications to Colleges. In which I'll have something to fall back on even before a I graduate High School. Sounds like a plan?

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by hirubhaiambani

Sorry I dont have any advice for OP coz I have never raced. But having education is important. Imagine winning a MotoGP or SBK race in some years time and sounding like a douchebag when some famous TV chat show personality invites you to the studio and asks intellectual questions. lol

On a side note: Can competitive racing be taught or do you need to have it within you? Not that I want to become a competitive racer but I'd like to get in shape and do some track days when my bike is not my sole mode of transportation. And when I have more money.

Edit: Don't get me wrong. I am not discriminating against people who don't have education. Just that I've noticed educated people seem to have a more stronger personality. Thats my personal opinion so please don't pounce on me. I really respect people who have put in the effort to get some education.

Well thanks, I'm not going to pounce on you, but I do indeed disagree. Some of the most intellectual beings are college dropouts. If you we're to have a conversation with this person you would think they got a Phd from Harvard by their vast vocabulary and mannerism.

Paul Allen (Co-Founder of Microsoft), Mortimer Adler (Author) and Sandy Adams (Congressperson) we're all High School or College Dropouts.

Personality is mostly perceived upon your environment, not your academic accomplishments. Yes, some may develop some Arrogance if they graduated from Columbia or Harvard.

[csmith12]

You can do plenty of track days at mid-o on a 250 but I don't know of any racing going on there this year or plans for next. Maybe something will change because I really love that track.

[lgk]

are you signed up to take college level classes?

if you take them and they transfer you can graduate with a BS at 19.
or you can force yourself through college by getting a GED, and going to college directly.

call the counselors and student aid office at the closest college and see if the ged qualifies for the entrance exam.

if your parents invested in a 529 plan, i would obtain the degree first.
then you can self fund your racing and start a business, with zero worry about student loans.

have you decided on what degree you are going after?

[dino74]

Whats your motorcycle background? Years riding, dirt track, etc

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Pursuing Racing over College was a major dilemma. I'm only 15 and I have 3 more years of High School until graduation. Maintain good grades, Race in High School, and hopefully having AMA Teams calling my phone before my 18th birthday.

While racing, simultaneously sending applications to Colleges. In which I'll have something to fall back on even before a I graduate High School. Sounds like a plan?

sounds like a good plan so long as you dont let racing interfere with schooling until you know you can compete with the top guys.

[hirubhaiambani]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Well thanks, I'm not going to pounce on you, but I do indeed disagree. Some of the most intellectual beings are college dropouts. If you we're to have a conversation with this person you would think they got a Phd from Harvard by their vast vocabulary and mannerism.

Paul Allen (Co-Founder of Microsoft), Mortimer Adler (Author) and Sandy Adams (Congressperson) we're all High School or College Dropouts.

Personality is mostly perceived upon your environment, not your academic accomplishments. Yes, some may develop some Arrogance if they graduated from Columbia or Harvard.

I agree with you Sir. Being a college dropout does not mean the end of the world or that person is a nincompoop. However, not all college dropouts manage to rise mega-corporations like Microsoft. Heck, I know some really cool people (2 to be precise) who have little to no education but can put most educated people to shame with their knowledge and personality. However, statistically, the percentage of people with such ability is really low. If this was the norm, there would be multiple Microsoft's in this world.

And yes, educated people can get arrogant. Well, a lot of them do. But still I would stick to the mantra - education is better than no education. Anyday. Anytime. And moreover, if racing fails, you would have a better back-up plan with a college education. But I hope racing does work for you and if I ever see the name Viante crop up in professional racing, I would know whom to support

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by lgk

are you signed up to take college level classes?

if you take them and they transfer you can graduate with a BS at 19.
or you can force yourself through college by getting a GED, and going to college directly.

call the counselors and student aid office at the closest college and see if the ged qualifies for the entrance exam.

if your parents invested in a 529 plan, i would obtain the degree first.
then you can self fund your racing and start a business, with zero worry about student loans.

have you decided on what degree you are going after?

Only 1 college class is offered for Sophmores, it is AP American History. Which has nothing to do with my interest. Haha, I plan on Majoring in Physics, Mathematics, or Mech/Chem Engineering.

I don't know if my parents will agree on this plan, until my mom sees I can pay the bills with racing, she's kicking me out and sending me off to college.

[hirubhaiambani]

Major in Maths? Super genius, I say.

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by dino74

Whats your motorcycle background? Years riding, dirt track, etc

Well I don't have any on track racing experience, but my grandfather taught me how to ride a motorcycle at 12 years old on a 1972 Kawasaki 90. I also rode my grandfather's 1977 Honda cb750 Automatic about a month ago. That thing is way more powerful than a 90. I only went about 20 mph. I couldn't keep the bike up because it was so heavy, my grandfather had to hold it up for me.

I also rode ATV's at my Grandmother's Cottage in West Virginia. So basically my motorcycle background is decent to a degree.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Only 1 college class is offered for Sophmores, it is AP American History. Which has nothing to do with my interest. Haha, I plan on Majoring in Physics, Mathematics, or Mech/Chem Engineering.

I don't know if my parents will agree on this plan, until my mom sees I can pay the bills with racing, she's kicking me out and sending me off to college.

the history class may not be your interest but it will still save time in college since you have to take general elective classes. taking that history class could save 3credit hrs of time where you could be taking a statics class instead.

just confirm the college takes the credits first.

do your research with your parents and figure out where you want to go school first. figure all the tuition room and board, food, etc.


figure what you need for building race experience.
research what a professional racer would need to get at that level.
-put that at a phd level, then divide your goals/achievements into different levels leading up to that point.
-then research the other team positions and do the same thing.
maybe you can find a different path that's very enjoyable.

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by lgk

the history class may not be your interest but it will still save time in college since you have to take general elective classes. taking that history class could save 3credit hrs of time where you could be taking a statics class instead.

just confirm the college takes the credits first.

do your research with your parents and figure out where you want to go school first. figure all the tuition room and board, food, etc.


figure what you need for building race experience.
research what a professional racer would need to get at that level.
-put that at a phd level, then divide your goals/achievements into different levels leading up to that point.
-then research the other team positions and do the same thing.
maybe you can find a different path that's very enjoyable.

Well I already have some my preferred colleges with TR&B-
-Ohio State (In State so Alot Cheaper- 12k TR&B)
-NYU (Expensive! 50k TR&B)
-Cornell (Expensive 43k TR&B)

But let's get back to Racing, this is ninjette.com not collegeconfidential.com, Haha.

I did some research on Zach Herrin, who is apart of the Yamaha Graves Team. Who apparently is a Pro AMA Racer after 2 years of racing in the WERA National Endurance Series. It didn't say he won any championships but I guess he made alot of podiums. Also Zach was on the Yamaha Graves team while he was racing in WERA. Can you gain sponsors while in WERA?

How do you gain Wildcard Entrys to WSBK to Moto3 races? Jake Holden gained a wildcard to WSBK, I don't even know how, he's not as good as he used to be. He is now asking for Donations on his website, and he's always switching teams.

[JA-Moo]

It is very difficult to become a top racer these days without a ton of money. And unless you are endowed with amazing natural talent, racing is a money pit, and sponsors are hurting from the economy, so their money is much harder to get.

Don't get me wrong, I have been road racing since 1981 (club racing) and racing is a blast.

As far as advise, get the video twist of the wrist 2 and memorize it. And get twist of the wrist 1 and read it, many times. As you will find, everything is backwards when it comes to self preservation on a motorcycle. Your normal reactions to situations have to almost always be reversed. I would do this before you take a school, as what you will be learning will already be understood going in and you will spend less time processing what you are taught.

One never knows how things will turn out, I'm sure the instructors at the school will have a very good idea if you have the "right stuff" after seeing you ride. You are starting out late, as most racers start in the dirt at very young ages, it is the very rare few that do, do well starting late.

If you haven't seen a real race in person, do so, vids are cool but seeing the real speed is a different ball game.

Our local club racers have seen some very fast guys come through the ranks, setting track records and literally flying on the track here. A few set off for the AMA races, spent a bunch of money and were barely mid packers.

I would really suggest doing track days to get a feel, and some races when you are ready. If you do well, stay on the 250 until no one is faster, then move up. as was said, the 600's are crazy fast.

It's easy for the guys racing the new bikes to spend a grand every race weekend. All of them have good jobs to support their racing, not one is making money.

But stay in school, you will always have a usable education. Dropping out or not going to college will just leave you in debt and no real career as a back up.

I also wanted to be a professional road racer, I wasn't fast enough, or had the money. And I'm glad now. Life on the road sucks. I have my career, and race for fun. As most all road racers do.

Road racing is a blast, but hey, you might actually get to go to Mars, I would not throw that away for anything, that is a trump card!

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Hello Guys, I'm new here.

I'm 15 years old and will be 16 in April of 2013. Anyways, around November I will be getting a 2008 Ninja 250r and will race it in the WERA 250 class, and after a year move up to a 600 Class to stay Competitive . They will be track ONLY bikes. In the summer of next year, if I have some money saved up, I will attend Jason Disalvo's speed academy. I don't have rich parents but so didn't Ben Spies.

Now what exactly should I do to achieve this goal? Should I race in Wera? Would USGPRU be a better fit? (They Don't have it in Ohio). Any tips?

I have aspirations for AMA, WSBK, and Moto2/3. Am I too old? I know the Hayden brothers, and Bradley Smith and Spies and Mladin all started young. But one of the legends started at 18! Now I'm not saying I will be the next freak of nature like Biaggi. But am I really too old? I know I can make it to the AMA. (I say that Humbly) but the question is factory or privateer.

I'm a really good student, who attended MIT's young physicist program and Invitational Nasa Engineering program, so this means I would be completely skipping college to pursue racing. This is tough....

Can you guys please give me some Insight?

Thanks and God bless.

What colleges are intersted in you? Are you in dual enrollment so you can graduate early? There is no reason you can't go to college and race. I went to Boston University and raced simultaneously. If you go to MIT you can race WERA, CCS, and LRRS. An engineering/physics degree would be perfect for developing extreme motorcycles.

You can't plan a racing career (as you have posted). You can only go racing and then see how you do at each level. It is much harder then saying where you want to be at each stage in your racing career's life. Go to DiSalvo's school and see how you do. If you are good as you think it will show immediately. Starting at 16 on a 250 for a year, then at 17 on a 600, puts you in the AMA at 18 or 19/20 at the earliest. At that rate you could be half way through a bachelor degree.

As a smart kid you should do some due diligence and research how much it will cost to race for 5 or 10 years and how much you could make in that same time period if you go to college.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by codestp202

Wow, I expected you to be some retard like that one kid that totaled his 250 and bought a r6. Either way, I can't give you much because I havn't gotten a chance to track, but, I don't think you're too old, but give it your all and if you have the funds to race and really go at it fully, go for it man. Just be safe

Who?

[VianteSBK]

Ninja 250: $4,000
Front Suspension upgrade: $1200 (if I buy used cartridges and springs)
Rear Shock: $1200
Brakes: $500
Race Plastics: $500
Clip Ons: $200
Tire Warmers: $500
Total: ~$8000 roughly just to get a bike set up. However, if I buy a used track bike I can often find it with many of these upgrades done for about $3500.

Mid-Ohio Entry Fee: 99$
Wera Fee: 110$ (Annually)
1st Race: 70$
2nd Race: 50$


Helmet: $250
Suit: $800
Glove: $100
Boots: $300
Back Protector: $150
Total: $1600

Then, I gotta start off as a novice at the club level, move up to expert, and get fast enough to where you can compete at AMA events. Most guys I know racing AMA Pro have been racing for 5-10 years. So, including an initial investment, assuming I don't change my bike and don't crash, don't ever upgrade your gear, and not including transportation and fuel fees, I'm looking at an initial investment of roughly $25-$30,000 to be maybe at a level to race AMA Pro, and a time investment of years.

.....Yea I'm not skipping College.

[Peanut_EOD]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Ninja 250: $4,000
Front Suspension upgrade: $1200 (if I buy used cartridges and springs)
Rear Shock: $1200
Brakes: $500
Race Plastics: $500
Clip Ons: $200
Tire Warmers: $500
Total: ~$8000 roughly just to get a bike set up. However, if I buy a used track bike I can often find it with many of these upgrades done for about $3500.

Mid-Ohio Entry Fee: 99$
Wera Fee: 110$ (Annually)
1st Race: 70$
2nd Race: 50$


Helmet: $250
Suit: $800
Glove: $100
Boots: $300
Back Protector: $150
Total: $1600

Then, I gotta start off as a novice at the club level, move up to expert, and get fast enough to where you can compete at AMA events. Most guys I know racing AMA Pro have been racing for 5-10 years. So, including an initial investment, assuming I don't change my bike and don't crash, don't ever upgrade your gear, and not including transportation and fuel fees, I'm looking at an initial investment of roughly $25-$30,000 to be maybe at a level to race AMA Pro, and a time investment of years.

.....Yea I'm not skipping College.

Your estimates are a little low. You can get gear for that cheap, but you'll just end up replacing it. I have three suggestions;
1. Don't try to get the cheapest gear possible just to get you started. Quality gear is worth the investment and you'll be happy with it.

2. Race for at least one season before you decide you want to do it as a career.

3. Race the 250 for a two or three complete seasons before moving to a 600cc class. Racing the 250 teaches you a lot about racing. More than you can learn in one season of racing.

[Racer x]

For free advice. I would say learn all you can from riders better than you. Go to school. If you change plans you will need a job. Stay away from doctors lawyers and fast woman.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Helmet: $500
Suit: $1200
Glove: $200
Boots: $300$
Back Protector: $200
Total: $2400

i think you're going to end up with a minimum of $2400 for one set of gear.
try to budget yourself $5000 for two sets of gear. budget for a custom suit since it'll fit better.

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

So, including an initial investment, assuming I don't change my bike and don't crash, don't ever upgrade your gear, and not including transportation and fuel fees, I'm looking at an initial investment of roughly $25-$30,000 to be maybe at a level to race AMA Pro, and a time investment of years.

its unrealistic to say you are not upgrading gear, or wont crash your bike.
pushing a bike to the limit means your bound to crash and use up bike and gear.

to be safe i would say you need $60-80k to race at the level/amount and get the experience/education you want.

if get you competitive and know how to market yourself, you'll have enough money. you need to work on your fundraising and networking. you're going to run into a deficit if you don't.

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

.....Yea I'm not skipping College.

that's a pretty good idea.

Originally Posted by CZroe

Who?

i dont remember his name, hopefully someone else can chime in, he had a 250, got it totaled and just recently bought an r6. the thread is multiple pages long

[VianteSBK]

Originally Posted by lgk

i think you're going to end up with a minimum of $2400 for one set of gear.
try to budget yourself $5000 for two sets of gear. budget for a custom suit since it'll fit better.




its unrealistic to say you are not upgrading gear, or wont crash your bike.
pushing a bike to the limit means your bound to crash and use up bike and gear.

to be safe i would say you need $60-80k to race at the level/amount and get the experience/education you want.

if get you competitive and know how to market yourself, you'll have enough money. you need to work on your fundraising and networking. you're going to run into a deficit if you don't.



that's a pretty good idea.

Thanks! Maybe I'll start a fundraiser, what pitch could I use?

[ryan.chin]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I don't have any advice on if you can make it or not but I would suggest not skipping college. Also if you think you need to move to 600s to stay competitive, well it just shows that you don't know the capabilities of the 250 class yet.

Anyone have that video of the dude raping 600s on his 250 at the track? Can't remember the name. Anyway once your doing that then I'd say move up a class

How the hell is he taking the turns so damn fast? Do the superbikes really have to slow down THAT much?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ryan.chin

How the hell is he taking the turns so damn fast? Do the superbikes really have to slow down THAT much?

No, they just arent as good as he is cuz they started on 600s

[pomartin]

he actualy bought it?.. oh well...

and yes... do not give up college.. knowledge and education is a key to everything... and no, i am not a 40yo woman who is worried about you... the thing is that you are young and have a whole life in front of you... you can not know if you will still be in love with bikes after a few years, even if you are now all crazy about it... and if that happens you will have nothing... if you go to college, you can still race, but not became a pro rider... finish your education, get a good job, live a good life- thats all what matter. And besides that you can still ride bike.

If i were you, this would be my choice

[lgk]

Originally Posted by VianteSBK

Thanks! Maybe I'll start a fundraiser, what pitch could I use?

what are you good at, or like to do?

[psych0hans]

I don't mean to rain down on your dreams, but this is the harsh reality of motorcycle racing...