Will not start without throttle

[allanoue]

I took it to work on Monday ans filled it 3 miles from home. It sat until yesterday morning, my bike would not start, temp was 27F. It still would not start when I got home 33F. I tossed in some seafoam and tried a few more times without success last night. This morning 24F it starts but only with a bit of throttle. It would immediately die unless I continued to give it a bit of gas. After 30 seconds it could run on its own.

Opinions? How should I proceed?

[Sykes92]

That's kinda odd. My bike usually takes 20 cranks before it will stay on when it's below 30. And it usually shuts off if I feed it any gas whatsoever, until it's warmed up.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by Sykes92

That's kinda odd. My bike usually takes 20 cranks before it will stay on when it's below 30. And it usually shuts off if I feed it any gas whatsoever, until it's warmed up.

FI is very different.

[choneofakind]

try cycling the switch off and on to get another priming squirt. @akima had a similar problem a while back IIRC

Check your intake for anything trapped in it.

[old3]

Stock tune?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by old3

Stock tune?

AreaP Microtuner with the carbon fiber exhaust

[Sirref]

hmm, I haven't run into that problem. the problem I've been running into in the cold is my clutch freezing and having to wait for the bike to warm up before I can move the lever to disengage it and get into 1st.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

try cycling the switch off and on to get another priming squirt. @akima had a similar problem a while back IIRC

Check your intake for anything trapped in it.

Wouldn't something in the intake affect it once it is running on its own, but not warmed up yet?

[old3]

Any chance of water in the fuel? That could mean ice in the pump/lines/injector.

It warms and runs/restarts normally?

[old3]

Originally Posted by Sirref

hmm, I haven't run into that problem. the problem I've been running into in the cold is my clutch freezing and having to wait for the bike to warm up before I can move the lever to disengage it and get into 1st.

Ice on the lever pivot/case mounted external clutch arm or inside the engine???

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by old3

Any chance of water in the fuel? That could mean ice in the pump/lines/injector.

It warms and runs/restarts normally?

Yes.
It must have been ice. After letting it sit for an hour&1/2 it now starts normally. Temp is still 24F

[old3]

Mine has started at under 20, might have taken a second or even third attempt, I don't remember. It'll do that on the rare occasion. Cold temps might be sticking up the injectors or something. Tolerances being what they are on these bikes it's possible it could be a few things.

Run the tank as low as you dare and start with fresh fuel or drain it if you are worried about it.

I want to hear more about the frozen clutch mentioned above! If it isn't external ice, something is broken.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by old3

Ice on the lever pivot/case mounted external clutch arm or inside the engine???

I think it's ice somewhere down the clutch line from time to time I just can't find where, luckily warming it up a bit seems to work. It's usually an issue in the mornings and not in the evenings unless the weather went bad.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by old3

Mine has started at under 20, might have taken a second or even third attempt, I don't remember. It'll do that on the rare occasion. Cold temps might be sticking up the injectors or something. Tolerances being what they are on these bikes it's possible it could be a few things.

Run the tank as low as you dare and start with fresh fuel or drain it if you are worried about it.

I want to hear more about the frozen clutch mentioned above! If it isn't external ice, something is broken.

With this tank I think I am good now with the seafoam and my next tank I will make the trip to the gas station that has 0% ethanol gas until spring. 3 miles away in Dover PA

[old3]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I think it's ice somewhere down the clutch line from time to time I just can't find where, luckily warming it up a bit seems to work. It's usually an issue in the mornings and not in the evenings unless the weather went bad.

Do you have a cable luber? Get a blast of good cable lube in the sheath from the top ASAP before you get a break due to rust on the cable. Motion Pro has a nice little one, and I think Moose makes the best cable lube these days, Bel Ray stopped making theirs. WD40 is OK too but not as good.

http://www.bikebandit.com/motion-pro...FSUOOgodiT4AcA

[Sirref]

Thank's for the tip, I hadn't thought of that. It doesn't happen that often but I'd definitely not want the cable to break. I have some WD40 that I'll use, at least for now. I've been using WD40 as my chain lube too so it should be fine (been re-cleaning/lubing my chain a lot during this winter though, I refuse to let it not be shiny and clean)

[old3]

Mine is covered in road salt as I type. It got cleaned once in 9k miles. I think I shot oil on it one time too. You don't want to spoil them.

[Sirref]

shouldn't your chain be covered in corrosion by now then?

[alex.s]

hey al, it sounds like the bike is simply too cold for the spec fluids and its having a hard time until its warmed up. maybe switch to a colder oil. i don't think its going to do it any harm starting it with a bit of throttle just don't go WOT since its still so cold. i don't suppose there is a choke lever on that thing haha

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by alex.s

hey al, it sounds like the bike is simply too cold for the spec fluids and its having a hard time until its warmed up. maybe switch to a colder oil. i don't think its going to do it any harm starting it with a bit of throttle just don't go WOT since its still so cold. i don't suppose there is a choke lever on that thing haha

Yep just a bit of throttle
I looked for the choke but no luck finding it.
I am a rotella t6 lemming.

[old3]

Originally Posted by Sirref

shouldn't your chain be covered in corrosion by now then?

If you believe the over obsessive chain wackers it would be!

I ride it almost every day. Snow held me inside today. I've been there and back. I used to pull chains off the bikes every week for a clean and soak, and still would if O and X ring chains never came along! I've been using them dry on both my dirt race bikes and my street bikes for well over a decade now. Lube attracts dirt and grit to stick to the moving parts. I've done both, cared for the chain like a monk and neglected it like a homeless bridge dweller. They always last me about 12k to 18k a set on the street with some dirt roads with premium chains and steel sprockets.

The stock (CHEAPO) chain has 9k miles on it now, a few different sprockets have passed under it but it is fine right now. It might go another 3k? I'm shocked it has lasted this long to be honest, but the slipper clutch and tiny torque numbers probably have made that possible. I've got better things to do than be a slave to my drive set!

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Yep just a bit of throttle
I looked for the choke but no luck finding it.
I am a rotella t6 lemming.

i honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. when it's that cold-- that far out of operating temp, the clearances are pretty far off. it wont make good compression, things are hard to move, its just not meant to be that cold you know. just keep the fluids clean (esp that coolant... make sure its nice and clean with glycol so it doesn't freeze) any chance of keeping it in a garage to keep it a little bit warmer?

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. when it's that cold-- that far out of operating temp, the clearances are pretty far off. it wont make good compression, things are hard to move, its just not meant to be that cold you know. just keep the fluids clean (esp that coolant... make sure its nice and clean with glycol so it doesn't freeze) any chance of keeping it in a garage to keep it a little bit warmer?

I keep it in a barn with no barn door. Speaking of which, I started it Thursday night and moved it next to my back door with no problem.

[JohnnyBravo]

You broke it.

[akima]

@allanoue If the temperature gets as low as 30f I'm pretty much guaranteed to have some problems starting my FI ninja. Like chone said, I just prime it twice and when it starts I hold the throttle on so the revs stay at about 4k. If I don't do those things it will conk out. After about 30 seconds I can hear the engine sound begin to smooth.

It's been like that since I got the bike. It doesn't really bother me now, I just accept that the little ninja prefers warmer weather

I've stopped riding mine now anyway; not because of the cold, but because of the road salt. I'll be back on her in Spring

LOL @JohnnyBravo. Best explanation

[csmith12]

Got a battery tender? If not, get one and most of your hard starting issues should go away. My r6 starts with temps in the negative digits, yours should too.

Turn key
Listen for pump to prime and pressure (about 2-5 seconds)
Start bike (should only need to push the start button)
Unplug tender
When the enricher kicks off, your ready to ride or sooner if your bike doesn't sputter and what not

[JohnnyBravo]

[allanoue]

Thank you all for your help. It started with no throttle yesterday but it was +33F & took it for a nice ride.
Going forward I am going with @akima and @choneofakind advice. Less work then @csmith12's (I do have a tender)

[csmith12]

Your perception is interesting but ya gotta do what ya gotta do to get ridin'. I applaud you for even firing the bike up when others are under cover.

[JohnnyBravo]

He sure is a true rider... I'm more of a fair weather friend to my bike

[akima]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Thank you all for your help. It started with no throttle yesterday but it was +33F & took it for a nice ride.
Going forward I am going with @akima and @choneofakind advice. Less work then @csmith12's (I do have a tender)

One thing I didn't mention. When it's really cold out, I have to give it throttle the moment I hear the engine start-up after pressing the ignition. If I don't catch it straight away, at that point, it cuts out and then it seems to get harder to start it after that... maybe the engine starts to flood?

It almost feels fitting that I have a bike that hates the cold weather as much as I do With enough effort we both get through it.

[cbinker]

bikes dont like cold.
bikes like warm heated garages.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by cbinker

bikes dont like cold.
bikes like warm heated garages.

They like to be ridden.
I like to ride.

[akima]

Originally Posted by cbinker

bikes dont like cold.
bikes like warm heated garages.

I'd love to have a heated garage. Somewhere nice and warm to store and work on my ninjette. MMmmmm