Handling problems

[mrgrimm]

I picked up a 2010 250 special edition the black and dark red one.

Bike was in need of a fair bit of work but most was just basic maintenance
and repair. Having no history of the bike and knowing the 250r is known
as a learner bike I was not going to ride it until it had a very good going
over by a pro. I took it to a local private bike shop and told them to go over it with a fine tooth comb. Here is what I ended up needing..
Battery
forks rebuilt
bearings in the steering head
front and rear brakes
oil change
chain lube
state required inspection sticker

While it was there I was told a 15T front sprocket was money well spent
so I let them put one on. The bike came to me with a Two brother black
slip on with the quiet core adapter installed. The original tires were still
on the bike and at 6K miles the rear had a rather bad flat spot in the center
but they said it had life left. I rode the bike for 3 weeks doing just a few
miles like 150 total. The bike just felt wrong when leaning. It was like you
had to force it to lean and it fought to go back to center. Bike shop said
it was the rear tire having such a flat spot. So I got a set of sport demons
for front and rear and had them installed. Now the problem is worse in a way. When you lean even a little it is very twitchy if that makes any sense.
You lean even a little for a low speed right turn at 10mph and it moves around under you and feels like a low side is on the way. I dont trust the
bike and after just 20 miles I have parked it and dont want to ride it. It just feels like it wants to low side at even low speeds and I fear a 50mph bend
in the road will be a low side for sure.

The tires are stock size front and rear
air pressure is good
rear seems to be aligned measuring off the swing arm pivot that is
I did do like 50 figure 8's in a rough parking lot to scrub in the new tires
I dont think it was enough as there are still the little rubber spikes all new
tires have. I dont know if its crap tires or they need some thing to make them grip I just dont know. I do know its not fun or safe to ride even around
the neighborhood. I never had an issue like this with new tires before. I just ride easy for a little while and they scrub in and all is well. This is much worse than any new tire feel I have ever had.

I need some advice

[micoulisninja]

I can say nothing for sure but taking for granted (by your feedback) that you have more than elementary riding experience, what you describe sounds like either some serious problem on the front system not repaired well enough(more possible) or worst case scenario, a broken frame weld or tube... IMHO but must be totally stripped and inspected thoroughly just in case but before you do that I would recommend someone else having more experience with the 250 have a ride and give you his impressions on it...

[mrgrimm]

At this point 2 different shops have taken all the plastics off and gone over the bike. The shop that did the tires I asked them to go over it as well. I do trust
that they did so. The owner of shop 2 was able to tell me all about the bike
and every scuff and dirty wire. I would not discount any suggestion as If I
knew it all I would not be asking here. I find it strange the issue was originally
that it was hard to lean due to the severe flat spot in the tire as I was told. Now
that issue is gone and replaced by a new one. With the tires the only change my suspicion went there first. Are Sport Demons a "good" tire?

[Skullz]

My old worn out front tire made the bike twitchy as the front was worn and had a brand new tire in the back which changed the rake of the bike. Now that i have a new front tire the front end is more stable and less twitchy and corners more slowly which i kinda of like but don't like if you know what i mean. Adjusting the front end up or down can have a huge impact on how the bike handles, and one where it feels all twitchy can either be good or bad depending on how much you like your bike to be responsive. Another thing you want to consider is the round profile of the new tire compared to your old worn out squared off tire and how it cornered, once you get comfortable with the new tires, you'll be fine.

[Nemy]

Is this your first bike? Like Skullz said, you may just have to readjust with the new tires.

The Demons are nice sticky tires but they still need to be broken in properly with gentle riding. Your figure-8s probably aren't enough and too low of a speed. After that, start riding faster in a parking lot and taking sharper turns if you really think it could low side at any time.

I'd also adjust the rear shocks to your weight.

And as for rebuilding the forks you could try Seal Mate first. Cheap, easy, and a potential fix to leaky forks. Worked on mine and I just used a leftover cellphone screen protector cut out and used like a Seal Mate. But if your forks bottom out then you are looking at a rebuild which could also fix your problems.

[jkv45]

What tire pressures are you running?

Can you test to see that the front forks move completely freely by lifting the front end and seeing if they will drop to one side or the other by themselves?

Also check that they aren't too loose by holding the front brake firmly and pushing the cycle forward and pulling it back vigorously - listening/feeling for a clicking or clunking from the steering head.

Does it feel like it tracks straight when you lift your hands from the bars at slow speeds?

Was it crashed?

[alex.s]

it sounds like the front wheel is has too much friction on it.... front brake dragging? bad wheel bearing? bad stem bearings?

[csmith12]

Coming back from 10yrs off riding aye.... Hmmmm, got a friend that can take the bike for a spin?

[snot]

Does the bike act the same in right and left hand turns? Do you have any video?
How does it react going straight?
Just trying to find more info.

Originally Posted by csmith12

Coming back from 10yrs off riding aye.... Hmmmm, got a friend that can take the bike for a spin?

Are you thinking rider input?

[wardie]

If it was mine riding this bike I'd get it to a qualified chassis specialist let him put it on the computer chassis alignment and see whats up. If something is bent you can address with previous owner.

If it was just worn rear tire that caused it ok but you've put good tires on and still having problem.

Probably silly at this point but have you have someone check the front and rear wheel balance and alignment to each other? In other words are they in line with each other??

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by snot

Are you thinking rider input?

Naw, not really. The story sounds similar to mine. I rode cruisers and standards for years, tooks some time off and my first 250 felt funny at first. After some more miles on the bike, it was all in my head. But... I have also learned to trust my gut. If mrgrimm thinks something is not right with the bike, then he is doing the right thing by getting it checked.

I just recommended he get a second opinion to add to the equation. Most problems with these bikes are simple and solved with some common sense.

[mrgrimm]

Lots of good input here folks thank you all so far,

Front forks feel good to me and were just rebuilt as well.
Head bearings were bad but have been replaced when forks were done
Wheel balance was done on both wheels when tires were changed
It feels fine in a straight line
Turns in either direction feel the same
Wheel bearings are also new
Brakes front and rear are new
There may be a little dragging in front brake as I can hear it but not feel it

With original tires, It felt like it did not want to lean either direction. You would push it to lean and no response from the bike. You had to push the bike to lean and when it would lean it was pushing to go back to straight up so you had to force it to stay. This is the reason for new tires. Shop said the flat spots in rear tire was the issue.

With new tires, When you lean into a slow 10mph right turn like turning onto a side street it squirms under you. It just feels like a low side is about
to happen. The more I think about it and read answers here is could be new
tire syndrome. I do not know the history of the bike this is the reason it went
from last owner into bed of my truck and to a shop. I wanted some one smarter than me to go over it and make sure it was safe. It was in the first
shop 3 weeks. I rode the bike at that point for 2 weeks and had shop 2 do the new tires and give it another inspection.

I have many years on street bikes from a 50cc honda express, 250 rebel, PC800, GL650 and on and on. Same with dirt bikes and ATV. I have a YZ250 and a Honda rancher in the garage now. I am not a noob on bikes but I do admit I have not owned the sport style bike before and I have been off street bikes for some time. I am going to take the bike back to the shop that did the tires later in the week and ask the owner to ride it and see if he
feels the same thing I do. I am inclined to think its new tire syndrome but it still makes me a bit sketchy to ride it. It just feels like it wants to slide out from under me in turns so how do I push past that feeling? I have never had new tires feel like this and it feels wrong. Coupled with the fact I dont know at what point it will low side as the bike is new to me.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by mrgrimm

Lots of good input here folks thank you all so far,

Front forks feel good to me and were just rebuilt as well.
Head bearings were bad but have been replaced when forks were done
Wheel balance was done on both wheels when tires were changed
It feels fine in a straight line
Turns in either direction feel the same
Wheel bearings are also new
Brakes front and rear are new
There may be a little dragging in front brake as I can hear it but not feel it
(SNIP)

Because there was work done on the front, I would look there closely and confirm everything is correct. It wouldn't be the first time a "trained mechanic" made a mistake and didn't get things back together right.

If you can find an experienced Ninja 250 owner in the area I would have them take it for a spin and see if it's feels odd to them. I know when I hop off my SV650 and onto my son's Ninja 250 the steering feels very light and quick, and it takes a while for me to adjust my inputs and positioning. A change in tire profile will change the handling and the way it turns in, but those tires should definitely feel planted compared to the stockers.

[alex.s]

put it on a front stand and spin the front tire... does it make at least 2 rotations?

[mrgrimm]

I am taking it back to the shop tomorrow as today was a rain day here. Going to get the
owner there to ride it and see what he says. I am going to start there and see if its just
me and new tires or if there are issues.

[alex.s]

what tire pressures are you running?

[mrgrimm]

32/32 psi

[rojoracing53]

Even with my level of experience when I finally replace my old squared off tire with nice fresh round ones the bike feels extremely unstable and twitchy. No matter how many times I've gone through this process it still takes me a day or two to reprogram my muscle memory to adapt to the new handling characteristics.

Another thing is if the steering head bearings are to tight then it'll always what to tip one way or the other and mid corner stability will feel wrong because your actions are delayed due to higher friction.

Like others have said let someone else give it a spin as well as check the other things we have mentioned. If you want something done right do it yourself or by someone with nothing to gain or lose.

[mrgrimm]

Well I went to the shop. The owner rode it as did the lead mechanic. They
agree it feels a little twitchy but cant find any thing wrong. At this point
they are calling it new tire syndrome compounded by the fact I have not
had the bike a long time. They feel I am not used to the bike in general
and now the new tires have changed the way it handles. Take it easy
and try to put some miles on the new tires to break them in was the
advice I was given.

As I have also found the rear tire will lock and slide a lot easier than it
would with the old tire. So I guess it all makes sense.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by mrgrimm

Well I went to the shop. The owner rode it as did the lead mechanic. They
agree it feels a little twitchy but cant find any thing wrong. At this point
they are calling it new tire syndrome compounded by the fact I have not
had the bike a long time. They feel I am not used to the bike in general
and now the new tires have changed the way it handles. Take it easy
and try to put some miles on the new tires to break them in was the
advice I was given.

As I have also found the rear tire will lock and slide a lot easier than it
would with the old tire. So I guess it all makes sense.

No - that part doesn't make sense.

What is the production date on the tire? It's 4 numbers in an oval on the sidewall like "2609". The first 2 are the week of the year (26th week) the second are the last digits of the year (2009). Those tires should be an improvement in traction if they are fresh.

If you are locking the rear frequently you are using it too much. Use the front more and you will not need to rely on the rear enough to get it to lock. The rear doesn't do squat when you really need to stop quickly.

[rgx107]

I'm with Rojo here, had the exact same experience when replacing the front tire from OEM to Michelin Pilot Street Radials. Especially at low speeds the bike felt weird, prone to lean over. Also I noticed when mounting the tire it had a quite pointy profile. Are the Deamons radials? In any case I'd say there is nothing wrong with the bike.

I'm still trying to understand whether it's only a new tire-syndrom, or that radials are different so they need a different fork angle or axle offset (advance if you like). I had previously replaced rear without noting much difference, so it's all about the front.

[Qomomoko]

I do not have exp to tell you much about your problem but the tyres, the DEMONS, are good tyres. I ride them on the track on my 93 250 ninja and for my novice/ intm level they held grip well. At the track I run them lower pressure though 27f/27f but that is track, I do not ride street on them.