August 15th, 2011, 12:16 PM | #1 |
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Whining under power only
I have my new-ish ebay engine in now (1.2K miles), and am working out the bugs. For the MOST part, everything seems good, or will be soon, but I was hearing a whine while under power today.
-The whine becomes hard to hear once the wind & pipe are too loud, so I didn't hear it on the freeway during yesterday's test. -It sounds similar to a chain that is too tight, and SEEMS to match the speed of the bike, rather than engine. -If anything, the chain is a tad on the loose side. The top part of the chain loop looks like it MIGHT rub the chain guard, HOWEVER I would think I would see the opposite result, since when it is under power, that part would pull tight. -The wine can be heard all the way from when the wind quiets, to just before a stop, when the clutch is pulled in. -I tried pulling in the clutch while riding, and it seems to go away, let out clutch, and it's back. -I also tried revving it with the clutch in, while moving, but I need to do a few more runs before I can be sure about that test... got to work, had to go. -I am using the SAME chain and 15T sprocket from my other engine. These parts have never given me a problem. -Since the engine is practically still breaking in, I am using the cheapo walmart oil (no friction modifiers) for more frequent changes, before switching back to something nicer. -The ONLY thing I did differently this time when removing the 14T and installing the 15T on the new engine, is use an impact wrench on the sprocket nut, as I suspect the breaker bar and torque wrench may have damaged the shaft and/or bearings on my old engine. -I am having a little difficulty getting the clutch cable set, which I will address in a new thread if necessary, but thought I would mention it in case it may be relevant. I'm stumped.... EDIT: Please read the update at post #14. A few of my origional assumptions where incorrect!
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August 15th, 2011, 03:02 PM | #2 |
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^bump^
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August 15th, 2011, 03:11 PM | #3 |
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Seeing as it comes/goes w/ the clutch and seeing your using cheap oil.
I would change that first and see if the whine stops. I've seen a few times people have weird issues w/ clutch using cheaper oil. Sometimes is helps to remember the KISS method....Other than that I'm of no use to ya. |
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August 15th, 2011, 03:21 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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August 15th, 2011, 03:26 PM | #5 |
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Seeing as you've isolated it to the engine, seems like i'd go with either the gearbox or clutch assembly. Since the engine is still new and seems to pull just fine, I say change the oil a few times and see if it goes away. Does it occur in neutral? If not then maybe it's the gearbox.
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August 15th, 2011, 03:30 PM | #6 |
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+1 to the oil. My 2010 whined a bit with the factory oil. Every sense the first oil change the whining went away. I can even hear the whine in some of the youtube vids.
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August 15th, 2011, 03:32 PM | #7 | |
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August 15th, 2011, 03:35 PM | #8 | |
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At ~1.2K miles, I guess I'm technically at the point they safe I can switch safely. Was there a specific youtube vid, or background noise in other general vids?
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August 15th, 2011, 03:41 PM | #9 |
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Rotella Dino Oil is pretty good. I used to use that before I switched to synthetic. What cheapo oil did you use?
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August 15th, 2011, 06:04 PM | #11 |
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The cheapo is the WalMart Dino... "Super Tech," I think.
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August 15th, 2011, 06:05 PM | #12 |
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Could be... if not that, I'll check the blinker fluid next.
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August 15th, 2011, 06:54 PM | #13 |
wat
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make sure you use real elbow grease when reapplying the blinker fluid. otherwise your bike will sound like a red herring
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August 15th, 2011, 06:58 PM | #14 |
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UPDATE: I have some NEW info.
I couldn't find N while under power, so pulling in the clutch is the closest I could get. I find the whine is loudest, or easiest to hear at ~4-5 RPM, but the exhaust drowns it out much higher. -If I pull in the clutch @ ~4-5 RPM, but keep the throttle at the same cruising position, the noise does NOT go away! So I was wrong before.... likely because I would let off the throttle before. -So now it seems the whine matches the speed of the ENGINE, not the BIKE. The most logical cause I can think of is that the Cam Chain might be too tight... although I don't know how that would happen all of a sudden. Because the engine was so new, I did not put my manual tensioner in, it has the OEM unit at the moment. It seemed fine yesterday, and the CCTs usually LOOSE tension, not increase. I don't know if this would work, but I was thinking about taking the cap off the CCT, and using a screwdriver to reset the CCT. I sure hope it isn't anything scarier than that.
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August 15th, 2011, 07:40 PM | #15 |
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Ok well we're getting some where. So now it's probably not the clutch nor is it anything to do with the gearbox and anything past that.
I guess it's time to check the CAMs and possibly recheck the valves while youre at it. Goodluck. You my friend has had a ton of engine issues. |
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August 15th, 2011, 07:55 PM | #16 | |
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August 15th, 2011, 08:59 PM | #17 |
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I just swapped out the OEM CCT with my manual one. Since it is now too late to be firing up a motorcycle engine, I'll make the tensioning adjustments in the morning. I will hope and pray this fixes the problem, and I won't have to open the valve cover. It did sound louder on the cam end with the stethoscope (although I didn't remove the L fairing, so I may not have gotten a good listen). So if the cam chain isn't over-tensioned, what are we thinking.... bad cam journals?
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August 15th, 2011, 09:05 PM | #18 |
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Not a clue. This is way past my knowledge of modern engineering. Hopefully others might have an idea. Like I said, good luck.
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August 15th, 2011, 10:15 PM | #19 |
wat
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i don't understand... have you not tried revving it while its not moving? maybe i can't read
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August 15th, 2011, 10:28 PM | #20 |
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Actually, no. I will in the morning though.
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August 16th, 2011, 12:18 PM | #21 |
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The morning update:
Yes, it seems I can hear some whine when not moving. I adjusted the CCT, and it didn't seem to do much. Oddly enough, however, it seemed like I had a bigger margin of error on the new engine between the CC rattling, and whining from being over-tightened.... the old one had a very narrow window. Plan is to ride it and watch it for a day or two, assuming nothing gets worse, then change the oil. If this doesn't help, THEN I'll open the valve cover.
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August 16th, 2011, 08:52 PM | #23 |
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The thought occurred to me too. I ordered a new cable for the clutch, not thinking it would necessarily solve the problem, but as an inexpensive rule-out before performing invasive surgery.
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August 17th, 2011, 07:01 AM | #24 |
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I'm beginning to wonder if you need to get some more dilithium crystals or a new set of TINCs.
T.otally I.diotic N.oise C.appers I need you to listen to mine. |
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August 17th, 2011, 12:46 PM | #25 |
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I have a whine on mine as well, it's really bad around 8k rpm and disappears when you pull in the clutch and keep the motor revved. I'm beginning to think it's a clutch issue, but i just do as DaBlue recommends since the bike seems fine otherwise.
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August 17th, 2011, 12:51 PM | #26 |
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That is very interesting... I'm not sure if it is comforting, maybe though. I wonder if sitting for a year, with little-no fluids, in a warehouse affected the clutch somehow... Maybe the plates stick together a little, I don't know..... I'll see if the new cable does ANYTHING for the clutch, and work from there.
EDIT: perhaps a bearing.... just brain-storming.
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August 17th, 2011, 02:30 PM | #27 |
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This could be like the chain clicking with new sprockets. As long as everything is in specs, just ignore it and ride. You spend so much time working on it that you might as well take it out for a spin. It's practically a new engine. I'd forget it and even if you only get another 10-20k out of it, you probably got enough experiences out of it that it's worth it and can be replaced again. Just saying.
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August 17th, 2011, 02:31 PM | #28 | |
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August 17th, 2011, 04:15 PM | #29 |
Long Time Rider
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In the video I start the bike up and let it warm up with no choke, just small throttle inputs.
The bike has been sitting for the last 7 seven days in the garage. The temp in the garage at the time of start up is 79 degrees. The temp outside is 85 degrees. The bike (a 2009) has two shims, snorkel removed, a Pipercross air filter and external oil cooler running 20w 50 Castrol Act*Evo oil and has 17k miles on it. As the camera is placed closer to the engine you can hear ticking noises while the engine is cold. Even as it up warms up the level of the ticking noise really does not change much. Even after a longer ride when the engine is really hot enough for the fan to come on and the tank to start whistling , the level of noise does not change. My bike has sounded pretty much like this since I bought it new off the showroom floor. It runs just a tad bit quieter with the stock filter, snorkel and no shims. Changing the way the air flows in the intake has resulted in the engine’s resonance changing and become a little louder. That has been made evident by the removal of the snorkel, so basically what I am hearing is normal engine noise on a very small, carbureted, thin walled, simple engine with a permanently attached transmission w/ constantly meshed gears mounted to a steel frame with no rubber to dampen vibration or sound. Is it noisy? Yes a little. But it runs great! I think you may be chasing a phantom noise and problems. Get your bike running and spend less time tinkering with it and have fun riding it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXHL1KXmwKc |
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August 17th, 2011, 04:40 PM | #30 |
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7 days in a garage WTH????
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August 17th, 2011, 04:48 PM | #31 |
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August 17th, 2011, 05:04 PM | #32 |
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Thanks Blue, for taking the time to shoot & post that video, and to everyone for your comments. I'm going to make a point of worrying less... I promise.
Blue - I don't really hear the whine in your engine, like I do hear in mine..... BUT, I do hear that assumed carb-slap that played a part in buying the new engine in the first place. This is a bitter-sweet moment.
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August 17th, 2011, 05:11 PM | #33 | |
Long Time Rider
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Watch and listen to the bike in my other video. The whine is very pronounced. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...20&postcount=4 |
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August 17th, 2011, 05:19 PM | #34 | |
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August 17th, 2011, 05:59 PM | #35 |
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No reason in particular. Just that the aftermarket sprockets dont have that rubber dampener ring that the stock sprocket has so by default it'll have more clicking noise from the chain hitting the sprocket. Of course i'm not saying ear blowing clicking while riding but when you put it on the rear stand and spin the tire, some clicking is heard and as far as I'm concerned normal.
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August 23rd, 2011, 05:37 PM | #36 |
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Thought I would post an update on this.
I found that after a few more miles, and getting my head straight, the whine has significantly improved. Sometimes I don't hear it at all, and sometimes it is there, but minor in comparison. I still haven't changed the oil weight, because I don't want to waste what I already have, but next change is back to Rotella T6.
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August 23rd, 2011, 05:48 PM | #37 |
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Haha, that's good. Just ride and forget it. Put in some earplugs and/or music and ride. Give it an oil change and keep going.
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